Butler has requested a trade, the saga continues

[King Malta]

I'm at the point where I think we just sit and keep him for the immediate future unless something awesome comes through.

As far as Miami, call this a knee-jerk (because it is), but after seeing Okogie's defensive efforts and his confidence and positive attitude offensively, I no longer have any real interest in Richardson. The Heat can organize something around Bam or back out of the race IMO.

[El Hespiritu]

You guys are getting spun around, by intentional leaks

Are we?
Well, if you say so...
You know us better than ourselves, of course.

Another option would be that you're assuming too much.
But I'm pretty sure that weird option never crossed your mind.

[twix2500]

Finally, why would anyone with half a brain believe Riley and the Heat links at this point, when they say they’re done?

1. The Heat gave their “final offer.” MIN said no.

2. MIA approached MIN again.

3. The Heat gave a new “final offer.” MIN said no.

4. MIA approached MIN again.

5. MIA said Jason Richardson is untouchable.

6. The Heat make a third “final offer,” and this one has Richardson in it. MIN says no.


So why this time do you believe, “no they really mean it this time! Ignore the other backtracks - Pat Riley suddenly means it! He said so!”

I don’t blame them for trying to get the best deal, but who could possibly believe they have credibility after all the backtracking they’ve done over the last month?

Miami only made one final offer. Which was JRich and Waiters. Hasn't been any final offer since. Just because rumors comes out, doesn't mean that rumored occurred the day that it was rumored if it occured at all. Minny wanted to move Dieng, that is why JRich wasn't being offered. Once Dieng was removed then JRich was offered with filler to match Butler contract. It's simple as that. No team is offering much for Butler because of the situation.

Really doubt it had anything to do with Waiters medical records. His surgery wasn't some secret. It was an 8 month recovery from the beginning. It's most likely Thibs really not wanting Butler to leave.

As far as Philly, Markelle Fultz shoulder is something you want to stay away from. A mystery injury that has crippled his shooting for over a year now is not something you want to take on. Its one thing if its a known injury and the rehab or treatment is known, but this is a mystery. After Simmons and Embiid, it's bunch of role players that suited to complement their big 2. Philly will have plenty of cap to go after Butler this summer. They have absolutely no reason to trade for Butler. At the end of the day it's gonna be what role player you like the most in return for Butler. It's not gonna be about better deal, just preference.

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[shrink]

You guys are getting spun around, by intentional leaks

Are we?
Well, if you say so...
You know us better than ourselves, of course.

Another option would be that you're assuming too much.
But I'm pretty sure that weird option never crossed your mind.

When people believe things that have been shown to be false, either by direct quotes from the person involved, or the actual language in the CBA, I look for reasons for that belief.

Saying you are being spun around by leaks if the more positive explanation.

[shrink]

Finally, why would anyone with half a brain believe Riley and the Heat links at this point, when they say they’re done?

1. The Heat gave their “final offer.” MIN said no.

2. MIA approached MIN again.

3. The Heat gave a new “final offer.” MIN said no.

4. MIA approached MIN again.

5. MIA said Jason Richardson is untouchable.

6. The Heat make a third “final offer,” and this one has Richardson in it. MIN says no.


So why this time do you believe, “no they really mean it this time! Ignore the other backtracks - Pat Riley suddenly means it! He said so!”

I don’t blame them for trying to get the best deal, but who could possibly believe they have credibility after all the backtracking they’ve done over the last month?

Miami only made one final offer. Which was JRich and Waiters. Hasn't been any final offer since. Just because rumors comes out, doesn't mean that rumored occurred the day that it was rumored if it occured at all. Minny wanted to move Dieng, that is why JRich wasn't being offered. Once Dieng was removed then JRich was offered with filler to match Butler contract. It's simple as that. No team is offering much for Butler because of the situation.

Really doubt it had anything to do with Waiters medical records. His surgery wasn't some secret. It was an 8 month recovery from the beginning. It's most likely Thibs really not wanting Butler to leave.

As far as Philly, Markelle Fultz shoulder is something you want to stay away from. A mystery injury that has crippled his shooting for over a year now is not something you want to take on. Its one thing if its a known injury and the rehab or treatment is known, but this is a mystery. After Simmons and Embiid, it's bunch of role players that suited to complement their big 2. Philly will have plenty of cap to go after Butler this summer. They have absolutely no reason to trade for Butler. At the end of the day it's gonna be what role player you like the most in return for Butler. It's not gonna be about better deal, just preference.

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Go back and check your own thread.

The initial final offer was Waiters and Whiteside.

The second final offer was Whiteside and (I forget - it did not contain Richardson)

“Richardson and Bam are off the table” was stated for the first week.

The third final offer was “Richardson, Waiters (ugh) and a pick.”

[twix2500]

All the deals with Whiteside were assumptions. No one know the deal that would involved Whiteside and Dieng. Neither team agreed to a deal. None of those discussions were FINAL offers. There were deals explored with Dragic and Winslow as well (confirmed by the Mia newspapers) but never revealed what the complete packages explored. During this time period Thibs and the Wolves GM was acking flaky and not communicating consistantly. That is why teams backed out or took it to higher levels to the owner. The final offer was the deal that was agreed upon and then backed out on, which is rumored to be Butler straight up for Richardson and Waiters. That was after involving Taylor and Micky Arison to get it resolved one way or another. That is when Heat left the same deal with a deadline on the table and proceed to complete the contract extension Winslow. Once that deadline passed, they started the final process to extend Winslow. I came on here and told you all the negotiates had stopped and the Heat were gonna announce the extension. But you all keep exploring options, you all kept listening to Howard Cosell fake phone taps between Heat and Wolves.

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[Tukkerwolf]

Hahaha. No one did that.

[El Hespiritu]

Saying you are being spun around by leaks is the more positive explanation I'm capable to think of.

Fixed.
Definetely, you're assuming way too much.
There's a lot of explanations for me guessin' Riley is not eager to engage in trade talks for Butler again.

If whatever stupidity written by Sedano or anyone else is the only one you found...
...well, I prefer not to finish the sentence.

[mplsfonz23]

If Butler gets hurt and done for the season, how screwed are we?
Could he be in a S&T next year?

[NebWolvesFan]

If Butler gets hurt and done for the season, how screwed are we?
Could he be in a S&T next year?

The exact situation happened to the Pelicans last year with Cousins and they have survived. You wait for the best deal.

[mplsfonz23]

If Butler gets hurt and done for the season, how screwed are we?
Could he be in a S&T next year?

The exact situation happened to the Pelicans last year with Cousins and they have survived. You wait for the best deal.

Yeah but they sent Heild, Evans and 2 picks for a whole 60 games of Cuz. In short, they got nothing in return. Can we afford to give up Lavine, Dunn and the pick for nothing?

[wolfen]

I'm at the point where I think we just sit and keep him for the immediate future unless something awesome comes through.

As far as Miami, call this a knee-jerk (because it is), but after seeing Okogie's defensive efforts and his confidence and positive attitude offensively, I no longer have any real interest in Richardson. The Heat can organize something around Bam or back out of the race IMO.

We still need 2 way wings, even with Okogie showing glimpses. Speaking of Miami, Richardson and Bam is probably never going to happen, but what about Rodney McGruder and Bam? McGruder is averaging 15 / 4 / 7 on the young season (small sample size) but the Miami press seems to be raving about him. If not McGruder and Bam, McGruder and Whiteside? Say what you want about Whiteside but he is hoovering in rebounds like a mad man (15 per game) and blocking almost 2 shots a game. We lose so many games against teams who have big, strong, skilled centers that KAT struggles against. M. Gasol, S. Adams, C. Capella, A. Drummond, J. Embid, D. Jordan, etc. All guys who give KAT trouble who I'd MUCH rather put Whiteside up against. Thoughts on Whiteside and McGruder?

[TruthSerum]

If Butler gets hurt and done for the season, how screwed are we?
Could he be in a S&T next year?

The exact situation happened to the Pelicans last year with Cousins and they have survived. You wait for the best deal.

Yeah but they sent Heild, Evans and 2 picks for a whole 60 games of Cuz. In short, they got nothing in return. Can we afford to give up Lavine, Dunn and the pick for nothing?

Jimmy has a player option. He might exercise it if a trade doesn't happen even by the deadline just so y'all get a mulligan to move him in the off-season. With him retaining his bird rights of course. $50M guaranteed is a hell of a motivator and it's no secret this is about money.

[mplsfonz23]

I'm at the point where I think we just sit and keep him for the immediate future unless something awesome comes through.

As far as Miami, call this a knee-jerk (because it is), but after seeing Okogie's defensive efforts and his confidence and positive attitude offensively, I no longer have any real interest in Richardson. The Heat can organize something around Bam or back out of the race IMO.

We still need 2 way wings, even with Okogie showing glimpses. Speaking of Miami, Richardson and Bam is probably never going to happen, but what about Rodney McGruder and Bam? McGruder is averaging 15 / 4 / 7 on the young season (small sample size) but the Miami press seems to be raving about him. If not McGruder and Bam, McGruder and Whiteside? Say what you want about Whiteside but he is hoovering in rebounds like a mad man (15 per game) and blocking almost 2 shots a game. We lose so many games against teams who have big, strong, skilled centers that KAT struggles against. M. Gasol, S. Adams, C. Capella, A. Drummond, J. Embid, D. Jordan, etc. All guys who give KAT trouble who I'd MUCH rather put Whiteside up against. Thoughts on Whiteside and McGruder?

I think we shut down talks with Miami unless we get the players we WANT and not settle for a package. Whiteside could help KAT down low, but his price tag is kind of high. Okogie looks good, but Rich is proven.

[wolves_89]

The exact situation happened to the Pelicans last year with Cousins and they have survived. You wait for the best deal.

Yeah but they sent Heild, Evans and 2 picks for a whole 60 games of Cuz. In short, they got nothing in return. Can we afford to give up Lavine, Dunn and the pick for nothing?

Jimmy has a player option. He might exercise it if a trade doesn't happen even by the deadline just so y'all get a mulligan to move him in the off-season. With him retaining his bird rights of course. $50M guaranteed is a hell of a motivator and it's no secret this is about money.

The only way Butler would exercise his player option is in the case of a major injury. I just can't see another scenario where it would make sense for him.

[TruthSerum]

Yeah but they sent Heild, Evans and 2 picks for a whole 60 games of Cuz. In short, they got nothing in return. Can we afford to give up Lavine, Dunn and the pick for nothing?

Jimmy has a player option. He might exercise it if a trade doesn't happen even by the deadline just so y'all get a mulligan to move him in the off-season. With him retaining his bird rights of course. $50M guaranteed is a hell of a motivator and it's no secret this is about money.

The only way Butler would exercise his player option is in the case of a major injury. I just can't see another scenario where it would make sense for him.

Injury definitely. Options may be another reason. Maybe the team he wants needs his bird rights. Max cap space isn't something many have. Plus, Jimmy loses $50M in guaranteed cash. That's yuge!

[mplsfonz23]

The exact situation happened to the Pelicans last year with Cousins and they have survived. You wait for the best deal.

Yeah but they sent Heild, Evans and 2 picks for a whole 60 games of Cuz. In short, they got nothing in return. Can we afford to give up Lavine, Dunn and the pick for nothing?

Jimmy has a player option. He might exercise it if a trade doesn't happen even by the deadline just so y'all get a mulligan to move him in the off-season. With him retaining his bird rights of course. $50M guaranteed is a hell of a motivator and it's no secret this is about money.

I doubt Jimmy want to do that. It puts him a year older, and who want to pay a 36 year old that kind of money? He needs to secure a long term deal this summer, that's his goal.

[wolves_89]

Jimmy has a player option. He might exercise it if a trade doesn't happen even by the deadline just so y'all get a mulligan to move him in the off-season. With him retaining his bird rights of course. $50M guaranteed is a hell of a motivator and it's no secret this is about money.

The only way Butler would exercise his player option is in the case of a major injury. I just can't see another scenario where it would make sense for him.

Injury definitely. Options may be another reason. Maybe the team he wants needs his bird rights. Max cap space isn't something many have. Plus, Jimmy loses $50M in guaranteed cash. That's yuge!

Teams are likely already hesitant to give Butler a 5th year (which is where the $50M comes from) on his contract after this season, picking up his option would mean that he would be a year older for that 5th season. It's hard to imagine any team wanting to give Butler a 5 year deal where he'll be making over $40M at age 35.

[TruthSerum]

Yeah but they sent Heild, Evans and 2 picks for a whole 60 games of Cuz. In short, they got nothing in return. Can we afford to give up Lavine, Dunn and the pick for nothing?

Jimmy has a player option. He might exercise it if a trade doesn't happen even by the deadline just so y'all get a mulligan to move him in the off-season. With him retaining his bird rights of course. $50M guaranteed is a hell of a motivator and it's no secret this is about money.

I doubt Jimmy want to do that. It puts him a year older, and who want to pay a 36 year old that kind of money? He needs to secure a long term deal this summer, that's his goal.

No doubt Jimmy wants a max deal ASAP, because guaranteed money is a big deal. Nobody wants to be the next Boogie. Unfortunately, he will have to take on some risk at least for this season. No changing that. Remember, he wanted to redo his contract into a 5-year max this summer just to take away that risk. Glen wasn't in a good position to oblige then, but he can be with a couple moves for this off-season.

[TruthSerum]

The only way Butler would exercise his player option is in the case of a major injury. I just can't see another scenario where it would make sense for him.

Injury definitely. Options may be another reason. Maybe the team he wants needs his bird rights. Max cap space isn't something many have. Plus, Jimmy loses $50M in guaranteed cash. That's yuge!

Teams are likely already hesitant to give Butler a 5th year (which is where the $50M comes from) on his contract after this season, picking up his option would mean that he would be a year older for that 5th season. It's hard to imagine any team wanting to give Butler a 5 year deal where he'll be making over $40M at age 35.

It's even worse than that. Another year means even more money because the max is a percentage the salary cap and the annual raises are a percentage on top of that. So I get your point, but older players always find somebody to pay them and some teams are fine with it. Even if they eventually buy them out. Better to look at the near term. Jimmy and KAT will make the same if you max him in the off-season. Clearly Jimmy is a way better value at current metrics. Might will be 3 years from now, too. Never know.