2022 Free Agency

[winforlose]

Assume Russell Westbrook is traded in a 3 way deal to the Spurs. Assume the Spurs buyout or more likely cut Westbrook just to be done with him. Should the Wolves sign Westbrook either on vet minimum or a 2 year BAE deal with the understanding he would get rotation minutes at backup PG? If yes do you add a team option to the second year and make it clear that he is expected to get along with the team and not be a locker room problem? More importantly, is Russel Westbrook better than JMAC?

[KGdaBom]

Just to consider this point of conversation:

When Philadelphia started The Process, they were only one year removed from the Eastern Conference Semifinals. Even with the successes of Embiid and Simmons, they haven't got past that point. So was it ultimately worth it?

I have been very outspoken about being disgusted by "The Process" and am on record as hoping they never have any success until every last vestige of the process is eliminated from their organization. They haven't got all that far in the playoffs, but wasn't that 100 bounces off the rim and dropping through shot by Kawhi what beat them in the playoffs that year? If that hadn't gone in Philly could have easily won the title that year. So it hasn't been successful/worth it, but it sure came close.

I don’t know about “easily won the title.” If the shot didn’t go in, it was only overtime, and they’d still need to beat TOR with Embiid dragging. Then they still needed to get past both the Bucks and the Warriors, and both of those series weren’t pushovers for Toronto - I think they were both 4-2.

But I agree that it gave them a shot.

The finals Warriors were a joke that year. Didn't Milwaukee fold like sheets fresh from the dryer?

[Calinks]

People VASTLY underate how hard it is to rebuild a team. Rebuilding a team from simply being a playoff team to being bad and being a playoff team with new players is very difficult. Rebuilding from being a playoff team to rebuilding a team with new players to be a contender is far harder. It generally takes 3-5 years at the fastest rate but often takes far more.

The Blazers were super impressive in the last 15 years because they went from Jailbalzers to Roy/Oden Blazers, to Dame/LMA to Dame/McCollum Blazers. All good teams that made noise, all team that had to be nearly built from scratch, none of them were real contenders.

The Wolves have struggled since KG only making two playoff appearances despite having multiple lottery picks and all-star caliber players drafted.

The Kings were never true contenders but have been in the dumps since they decided to move on from Chris Weber in 2005.

Suns spent nearly a decade getting back to respectability after the Nash, Amare, Marion years.

Spurs have been in the dumps since their big three left. That's with one of the greatest coaches of all time btw.

The huge markets have it easier, they can get big free agents like Lerbron. Even still teams like Chicago and New York have still struggled.

Its very hard to build a good team from scratch. At some point you need to cash in and make some big moves. I like that we are doing that. Our future isn't dead, we still have young players and guys just entering their prime. We are somewhat limited sure, but we have several years to find an identity together and make a run.

If all else fails, we can always firesale and rebuild yet again.

[winforlose]

People VASTLY underate how hard it is to rebuild a team. Rebuilding a team from simply being a playoff team to being bad and being a playoff team with new players is very difficult. Rebuilding from being a playoff team to rebuilding a team with new players to be a contender is far harder. It generally takes 3-5 years at the fastest rate but often takes far more.

The Blazers were super impressive in the last 15 years because they went from Jailbalzers to Roy/Oden Blazers, to Dame/LMA to Dame/McCollum Blazers. All good teams that made noise, all team that had to be nearly built from scratch, none of them were real contenders.

The Wolves have struggled since KG only making two playoff appearances despite having multiple lottery picks and all-star caliber players drafted.

The Kings were never true contenders but have been in the dumps since they decided to move on from Chris Weber in 2005.

Suns spent nearly a decade getting back to respectability after the Nash, Amare, Marion years.

Spurs have been in the dumps since their big three left. That's with one of the greatest coaches of all time btw.

The huge markets have it easier, they can get big free agents like Lerbron. Even still teams like Chicago and New York have still struggled.

Its very hard to build a good team from scratch. At some point you need to cash in and make some big moves. I like that we are doing that. Our future isn't dead, we still have young players and guys just entering their prime. We are somewhat limited sure, but we have several years to find an identity together and make a run.

If all else fails, we can always firesale and rebuild yet again.

True, but good scouting goes a long way. In the Rosas and TC years our scouting seems to be miles ahead of the years that came before (assuming Culver was unintentional and the target was Garland.) I mean Johnny Flynn, Brandon Roye, I cannot even list them all without my head and heart hurting. Drafting dud after dud kills the rebuild. The Wiggins trade was also a poor return for Love as it turns out. If we had traded for something better or if Embiid had been the return instead of Wiggins things would be very different now. We also sent away Lavine instead of taking the years to develop him. Long story short, rebuilds are hard, but good coaching, development, and drafting go a long way.

[Calinks]

People VASTLY underate how hard it is to rebuild a team. Rebuilding a team from simply being a playoff team to being bad and being a playoff team with new players is very difficult. Rebuilding from being a playoff team to rebuilding a team with new players to be a contender is far harder. It generally takes 3-5 years at the fastest rate but often takes far more.

The Blazers were super impressive in the last 15 years because they went from Jailbalzers to Roy/Oden Blazers, to Dame/LMA to Dame/McCollum Blazers. All good teams that made noise, all team that had to be nearly built from scratch, none of them were real contenders.

The Wolves have struggled since KG only making two playoff appearances despite having multiple lottery picks and all-star caliber players drafted.

The Kings were never true contenders but have been in the dumps since they decided to move on from Chris Weber in 2005.

Suns spent nearly a decade getting back to respectability after the Nash, Amare, Marion years.

Spurs have been in the dumps since their big three left. That's with one of the greatest coaches of all time btw.

The huge markets have it easier, they can get big free agents like Lerbron. Even still teams like Chicago and New York have still struggled.

Its very hard to build a good team from scratch. At some point you need to cash in and make some big moves. I like that we are doing that. Our future isn't dead, we still have young players and guys just entering their prime. We are somewhat limited sure, but we have several years to find an identity together and make a run.

If all else fails, we can always firesale and rebuild yet again.

True, but good scouting goes a long way. In the Rosas and TC years our scouting seems to be miles ahead of the years that came before (assuming Culver was unintentional and the target was Garland.) I mean Johnny Flynn, Brandon Roye, I cannot even list them all without my head and heart hurting. Drafting dud after dud kills the rebuild. The Wiggins trade was also a poor return for Love as it turns out. If we had traded for something better or if Embiid had been the return instead of Wiggins things would be very different now. We also sent away Lavine instead of taking the years to develop him. Long story short, rebuilds are hard, but good coaching, development, and drafting go a long way.

Yes, all true. That doing what we are doing is the best route IMO. Its a combination of all. we certainly paid our dues rebuilding. We got KAT, Ant, McDaniels. We made a couple of big trades to bring in DLO and Gobert. I think teams get stuck rebuilding too, its a tough position. You need to give your young guys time but you also need to accelerate their growth.

We dumped Lavine early and probably should have kept the core together however, we needed to put capable vets around them too. Maybe you can't always do both so I do respect Thibs for trying to do that around KAT and Wiggins with Butler, Taj, Rose, etc. It's just that Butler was very unhappy.

I think Ant is in a great spot. He has some solid vets around him now. I still wish he has a Pat Bev or Rubio around but KAT, Gobert, DLO, while young are all all-stars who can show him how to be a high level player. Maybe guys like Prince and Rivers and can be other locker room glue guys. You need savvy vets to guide your young players.

[winforlose]

People VASTLY underate how hard it is to rebuild a team. Rebuilding a team from simply being a playoff team to being bad and being a playoff team with new players is very difficult. Rebuilding from being a playoff team to rebuilding a team with new players to be a contender is far harder. It generally takes 3-5 years at the fastest rate but often takes far more.

The Blazers were super impressive in the last 15 years because they went from Jailbalzers to Roy/Oden Blazers, to Dame/LMA to Dame/McCollum Blazers. All good teams that made noise, all team that had to be nearly built from scratch, none of them were real contenders.

The Wolves have struggled since KG only making two playoff appearances despite having multiple lottery picks and all-star caliber players drafted.

The Kings were never true contenders but have been in the dumps since they decided to move on from Chris Weber in 2005.

Suns spent nearly a decade getting back to respectability after the Nash, Amare, Marion years.

Spurs have been in the dumps since their big three left. That's with one of the greatest coaches of all time btw.

The huge markets have it easier, they can get big free agents like Lerbron. Even still teams like Chicago and New York have still struggled.

Its very hard to build a good team from scratch. At some point you need to cash in and make some big moves. I like that we are doing that. Our future isn't dead, we still have young players and guys just entering their prime. We are somewhat limited sure, but we have several years to find an identity together and make a run.

If all else fails, we can always firesale and rebuild yet again.

True, but good scouting goes a long way. In the Rosas and TC years our scouting seems to be miles ahead of the years that came before (assuming Culver was unintentional and the target was Garland.) I mean Johnny Flynn, Brandon Roye, I cannot even list them all without my head and heart hurting. Drafting dud after dud kills the rebuild. The Wiggins trade was also a poor return for Love as it turns out. If we had traded for something better or if Embiid had been the return instead of Wiggins things would be very different now. We also sent away Lavine instead of taking the years to develop him. Long story short, rebuilds are hard, but good coaching, development, and drafting go a long way.

Yes, all true. That doing what we are doing is the best route IMO. Its a combination of all. we certainly paid our dues rebuilding. We got KAT, Ant, McDaniels. We made a couple of big trades to bring in DLO and Gobert. I think teams get stuck rebuilding too, its a tough position. You need to give your young guys time but you also need to accelerate their growth.

We dumped Lavine early and probably should have kept the core together however, we needed to put capable vets around them too. Maybe you can't always do both so I do respect Thibs for trying to do that around KAT and Wiggins with Butler, Taj, Rose, etc. It's just that Butler was very unhappy.

I think Ant is in a great spot. He has some solid vets around him now. I still wish he has a Pat Bev or Rubio around but KAT, Gobert, DLO, while young are all all-stars who can show him how to be a high level player. Maybe guys like Prince and Rivers and can be other locker room glue guys. You need savvy vets to guide your young players.

I think this is fair. I also think it is fair to point to a team like the Spurs who tried and failed to rebuild without amassing a ton of picks. They were able to build a 8-9 seed team but not acquire the star power to turn into a real threat. Rebuilds can take many shapes and sizes and can fail or succeed based on a number of variables. For instance if we don’t win the Ant Lottery and get Wiseman, depending on his injuries and development ours could still be happening. Likewise not drafting Culver but instead taking Coby White might have helped. Just too many variables. But all in all I think we can all agree it is nice to be on the other side of one with the high expectations and the hope of national attention to finally give our guys their due.

[life_saver]

I would prefer to lockup Nowell with a similar kind of deal (4 years $25-$40M range). Feel like Nowell will accept it as it would be life changing money for someone who has earned <$6M so far in NBA and isn't necessarily guaranteed a big contract in future yet

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[winforlose]

I would prefer to lockup Nowell with a similar kind of deal (4 years $25-$40M range). Feel like Nowell will accept it as it would be life changing money for someone who has earned <$6M so far in NBA and isn't necessarily guaranteed a big contract in future yet

Read on Twitter

With his agent, I think he asks for closer to 8 or 9. Nowell has a high opinion of his game, and I think someone will pay it to him, especially if he does well this year.

[life_saver]

I would prefer to lockup Nowell with a similar kind of deal (4 years $25-$40M range). Feel like Nowell will accept it as it would be life changing money for someone who has earned <$6M so far in NBA and isn't necessarily guaranteed a big contract in future yet

Read on Twitter

With his agent, I think he asks for closer to 8 or 9. Nowell has a high opinion of his game, and I think someone will pay it to him, especially if he does well this year.

that's the uncertainity right? That's why I would prefer to see Wolves extend Nowell before this season starts at reasonable rate. If Nowell has a breakout season, then we might endup having to overpay

[Biff Cooper]

I just did a little Coon research on what we can offer Nowell (or Reid). Our early Bird rights for them should allow us to offer them a salary starting at as much as the average NBA salary with 10.5% raises every year. If they are an RFA, we could potentially get Gilbert Arenas out of being able to sign them. If we say the average salary is $7.5 M, a team that is at least $14.3M under the cap could offer one of them a 4 year contract of $7.5M, $8.1M, $20M, $21.6M that we would likely have no chance of matching.

If we are concerned about Nowell having a big year, it would be prudent to offer him something like a $6.5M, $7.18M. $7.94M, $8.77M extension (4 years / $30.4M)

[winforlose]

I just did a little Coon research on what we can offer Nowell (or Reid). Our early Bird rights for them should allow us to offer them a salary starting at as much as the average NBA salary with 10.5% raises every year. If they are an RFA, we could potentially get Gilbert Arenas out of being able to sign them. If we say the average salary is $7.5 M, a team that is at least $14.3M under the cap could offer one of them a 4 year contract of $7.5M, $8.1M, $20M, $21.6M that we would likely have no chance of matching.

If we are concerned about Nowell having a big year, it would be prudent to offer him something like a $6.5M, $7.18M. $7.94M, $8.77M extension (4 years / $30.4M)

Nowell and Reid both signed in 2019/2020 NBA season. The next year was 20/21 then 21/22. We have full bird rights.

[IceManBK1]

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Can't believe he would choose 76ers over us. Maybe they can pay him more. But Min is gonna be better team than 76ers this yr.

[KGdaBom]

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Can't believe he would choose 76ers over us. Maybe they can pay him more. But Min is gonna be better team than 76ers this yr.

You are correct, but I would guess more people think the 76ers will be better than think the Wolves will be better.

[winforlose]

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Can't believe he would choose 76ers over us. Maybe they can pay him more. But Min is gonna be better team than 76ers this yr.

You are correct, but I would guess more people think the 76ers will be better than think the Wolves will be better.

Would he get more play time in Philly than here? Are they moving on from TH at the 4?

[life_saver]

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Can't believe he would choose 76ers over us. Maybe they can pay him more. But Min is gonna be better team than 76ers this yr.

I wouldn't be confident about that. I can see Philly being a better team. Philly has a pretty good roster and Harden seems to be determined to come into season in shape. Also Philly is probably more attractive market than Minnesota for Free Agents

[PeeDee]

East Coast vs West Coast is also a consideration. The path to the finals in the West looks much harder.

[winforlose]

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Can't believe he would choose 76ers over us. Maybe they can pay him more. But Min is gonna be better team than 76ers this yr.

I wouldn't be confident about that. I can see Philly being a better team. Philly has a pretty good roster and Harden seems to be determined to come into season in shape. Also Philly is probably more attractive market than Minnesota for Free Agents

I disagree. Embiid is always hurt, Harden is hurt often, Maxey is good but not enough by himself, and I don’t know what they are doing with Harris. Morris probably doesn’t get into either rotation so I could see him with a 3rd team.

[KGdaBom]

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Can't believe he would choose 76ers over us. Maybe they can pay him more. But Min is gonna be better team than 76ers this yr.

I wouldn't be confident about that. I can see Philly being a better team. Philly has a pretty good roster and Harden seems to be determined to come into season in shape. Also Philly is probably more attractive market than Minnesota for Free Agents

I'm confident we're a better team than Philly.

[TimberKat]

How about helping Ainge, Nets, Heat with the following trade:
Jazz Out: Mitchell, Vanderbilt, Beasley
Jazz In: Kyrie, 3 1st from Heat, maybe Philly 1st via Nets (Jazz flip Kyrie later...)

Nets out: KD, Kyrie, maybe Philly 1st
Nets In: Mitchell, Herro, Robinson, Vanderbilt

Heat out: Robinson, Herro, 3 1st
Heat in: KD, Beasley

Add whatever salary filler to make it work.

It is intriguing, but I think it wouldn’t happen. Even if Simmons is healthy and plays 82 games, (huge ifs,) those 4 players do not make Brooklyn a contender. Brooklyn would likely want to rebuild after trading KD and Kyrie, and thus will want picks and young cheap talent. I mean they could turn around and flip them all for picks, but I don’t see why they would want to give up a first to acquire those guys just to resell.

What I wonder about is Simmons to NYK for 3 or 4 firsts instead of Mitchell. It makes a lot more sense for both teams. A backcourt of Brunson and Simmons would be way more balanced than with Brunson and Mitchell. Simmons, plus Randle and Robinson also lets the Knicks play big ball. Mitchell is a better scorer but undersized and bad at defense. A healthy Simmons helps fill in the gap. They could also use the other 4 picks to target some upgrades. For example Myles Turner and/or others.

How about add a Simmons for Adebayo swap (because need to move Simmons to get Adebayo). Heat will have Butler, KD, Simmons; BKN will have Adebayo, Vanderbilt, Robionson, Herro, Mitchell. BKN also keeps the Philly pick.

[TimberKat]

Overall I agree that the Process was mixed results. It’s fans point to wins with Embiid and Simmons, and forget about Noel, Okafor and Fultz. Five bites at the apple are certainly going to increase your chance of finding a star, but five years screwing over your fans certainly is costly.

Just to consider this point of conversation:

When Philadelphia started The Process, they were only one year removed from the Eastern Conference Semifinals. Even with the successes of Embiid and Simmons, they haven't got past that point. So was it ultimately worth it?

Only one little mistake from immortality - trade up and take Jason Tatum instead. Also would allow Simmons to be the GSW Wiggins. No pressure to score (on the basketball court anyway).