2014 Draft Prospects Thread

AQuintus · Post #1141 » by **AQuintus** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 2:22 am

Klomp wrote:Also, remember this: He doesn't turn 19 years old until September.

He also measured in at 6'6" at USA basketball last year, and 6'7.5" this year at the combine. That suggests that he might still be growing.

Takingbaconback · Post #1142 » by **Takingbaconback** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 2:40 am

Gordon reminds me of a Blake Griffin lite. His free throw shooting is horrible (42.2%), and he has that same griffin mentality where he shrinks from big moments and his offensive game just crumbles. He's never been the late game closer in Arizona so think more of Griffin than Love when it comes to heroics. He isn't skilled with the ball, has these terrible looking shots at times, and occasional aggression seems forced like Griffin. Obviously not as athletic, big, or strong as Griffin which makes you wonder if his talent/skillset are enough to overcome liabilities that Griffin has had to face.

MinneOOPalis · Post #1143 » by **MinneOOPalis** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 2:51 am

Only similarities they have is they are light skinned and can jump high.

Takingbaconback · Post #1144 » by **Takingbaconback** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 2:54 am

Sakuragi_ wrote:Only similarities they have is they are light skinned and can jump high.

I've watched at least 8 games with my roommate who transferred from Arizona. This guy is very similar to Blake Griffin in his style, his play, and his approach to the game.

He disappears for long stretches, he misses bunnies in the lane way too many times for a player of his caliber, he seems to have a good enough stroke but there's a hitch that he will need years to fix like Griffin. A lot more passive than he should be and loses control when he is forced to be aggressive. Still a fine prospect, just think it will take a lot of time for him to become truly efficient enough to a point where liabilities don't overshadow his strengths.

Maefteda · Post #1145 » by **Maefteda** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 2:54 am

Gordon is the much better defensive prospect though. Blake Griffin is just average on D, while Gordon has the chance to be elite. I think Gordon has more range as well, even though Blake is obviously a lot more reliable, as well as having the physical advantage you are talking about.

They are both really skilled for their size though. Gordon can really handle the ball and we've seen what Blake can do in the league with his ball-handling.

Takingbaconback · Post #1146 » by **Takingbaconback** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 2:57 am

Maefteda wrote:Gordon is the much better defensive prospect though. Blake Griffin is just average on D, while Gordon has the chance to be elite. I think Gordon has more range as well, even though Blake is obviously a lot more reliable, as well as having the physical advantage you are talking about.

They are both really skilled for their size though. Gordon can really handle the ball and we've seen what Blake can do in the league with his ball-handling.

Maybe Gordon will be a better defender but I don't think Griffin's too shabby on D especially with his athleticism. Right, he still is skilled for his size but I think he's going to need a lot of time to utilize that effectively. Not really sure if Blake has done it yet, probably started to turn the corner last year. Griffin still struggles a little bit to control the ball when defenses get physical with him but yeah he's noticeably gotten better.

I would be very wary about that free throw shooting though. We've seen how badly teams with PF/C who can't shoot free throws down the stretch get exposed and those PF/C must have all-star impact to stay on the floor. Hopefully he can improve but definitely seems like a mental block because his shooting stroke and form looks good for a big man.

Post #1147 » by **Klomp** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 3:07 am

We need an interior presence on the defensive end. Aaron Gordon can be that from Day 1.

I don't think anyone is naive enough to expect him to be a go-to guy in the clutch, especially not right away. He's a developmental guy who can contribute immediately on the defensive end of the floor, where we need it most.

Takingbaconback · Post #1148 » by **Takingbaconback** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 3:12 am

Klomp wrote:We need an interior presence on the defensive end. Aaron Gordon can be that from Day 1.

I don't think anyone is naive enough to expect him to be a go-to guy in the clutch, especially not right away. He's a developmental guy who can contribute immediately on the defensive end of the floor, where we need it most.

Like that Dieng/Pek idea, he is going to play PF so he wouldn't really be enforcing the paint but Gordon/Dieng duo seems very promising on the defensive side of the ball. I am very worried about the FT shooting in the long run when you talk about Gordon and him being a starter for years to come.

MinneOOPalis · Post #1149 » by **MinneOOPalis** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 3:12 am

What I like most is that hes a good passer. Shows he at least knows the game.

I would prefer Vonleh though.

Post #1150 » by **Klomp** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 3:15 am

Takingbaconback wrote:Like that Dieng/Pek idea, he is going to play PF so he wouldn't really be enforcing the paint

Ibaka doesn't enforce the paint?

Takingbaconback · Post #1151 » by **Takingbaconback** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 3:18 am

Klomp wrote:
Takingbaconback wrote:Like that Dieng/Pek idea, he is going to play PF so he wouldn't really be enforcing the paint

Ibaka doesn't enforce the paint?

Gordon is a good defender but he is no Ibaka when you talk about that weak side help. In fact, Dieng would be a much better enforcer at PF than Gordon when you talk about an Ibaka role. Gordon isn't that freaky defensive monster like Iblocka with that fast twitch anticipation, I don't think he even blocked that many shots in college (1.0 bpg). Similar to Griffin, his athleticism doesn't translate all the way on defense.

The dude's got a lot of potential but I'm just saying he's very raw on some parts of his game and would need a lot of time to tie it all together rather than someone like Stauskas who wouldn't have to develop on so many areas to become an efficient consistent player.

Post #1152 » by **Klomp** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 3:45 am

Takingbaconback wrote:
Klomp wrote:
Takingbaconback wrote:Like that Dieng/Pek idea, he is going to play PF so he wouldn't really be enforcing the paint

Ibaka doesn't enforce the paint?

Gordon is a good defender but he is no Ibaka when you talk about that weak side help. In fact, Dieng would be a much better enforcer at PF than Gordon when you talk about an Ibaka role. Gordon isn't that freaky defensive monster like Iblocka with that fast twitch anticipation, I don't think he even blocked that many shots in college (1.0 bpg). Similar to Griffin, his athleticism doesn't translate all the way on defense.

I never said he was Ibaka, and I never said he was a weakside shotblocker. All I said is that he can be a defensive presence.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MeP9bTv_90[/youtube]

Start at 2:00. Griffin never showed any of that, not even at Oklahoma.

horaceworthy · Post #1153 » by **horaceworthy** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 4:39 am

Klomp wrote:I never said he was Ibaka, and I never said he was a weakside shotblocker. All I said is that he can be a defensive presence.

I think the confusion came from the "interior defensive presence." Interior usually implies rim protector. Gordon has tremendous defensive potential, but it stems more from his athleticism providing the versatility to defend either forward position and be an asset defending the pick and roll.

Takingbaconback · Post #1154 » by **Takingbaconback** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 5:11 am

I mean he's a good defensive player who makes some plays but I dont think the switch has flipped on yet. Hes solid on his assignments, going one on one,staying in front of people etc but I dont think he is a "paint enforcer" at least not yet. Big problem with him is his inconsistency in general and his ft shooting. Just how bad he is at the charity stripe should give teams pause, not a lot of nba starters are skilled enough to compensate for 50-60% shooting let alone ~45%

shangrila · Post #1155 » by **shangrila** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 8:39 am

Yeah, I don't think he's a shot blocker either but it shouldn't matter if Dieng is starting. So long as he doesn't get abused by his own player or struggle switching/moving onto others when the defence breaks down, like Love was prone to do, then he should still be an effective "big" defender.

The thing I've been wondering about him lately though is whether or not he's actually a 4. His ball handling looks good enough for a wing guy, while his lack of strength could be an issue against 4s (and not 3s). I'm sure he could play the 4 in stretches, but full time I'm not buying yet. At this point I wouldn't be surprised at all if he turned out kind of like Marion did.

Post #1156 » by **Klomp** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 9:38 am

shangrila wrote:The thing I've been wondering about him lately though is whether or not he's actually a 4. His ball handling looks good enough for a wing guy, while his lack of strength could be an issue against 4s (and not 3s). I'm sure he could play the 4 in stretches, but full time I'm not buying yet. At this point I wouldn't be surprised at all if he turned out kind of like Marion did.

I think the current state of his perimeter game limits him more to playing PF than his lack of strength limits him to SF.

Lack of strength is considered a weakness for a lot of rookies coming into the league, especially someone who hasn't even turned 19.

This may turn some people off, but I actually see similarities to Josh Smith, who is much better suited to playing PF.

Post #1157 » by **Klomp** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 9:44 am

Takingbaconback wrote:Gordon reminds me of a Blake Griffin lite. His free throw shooting is horrible (42.2%), and he has that same griffin mentality where he shrinks from big moments and his offensive game just crumbles. He's never been the late game closer in Arizona so think more of Griffin than Love when it comes to heroics. He isn't skilled with the ball, has these terrible looking shots at times, and occasional aggression seems forced like Griffin. Obviously not as athletic, big, or strong as Griffin which makes you wonder if his talent/skillset are enough to overcome liabilities that Griffin has had to face.

I think the misconception here is that the pick we get for Love has to replace Love's offensive production. Low-post offense won't be an issue if we still have Pekovic and we still have Rubio to create for bigs.

How many PFs do you know who have late-game heroics, anyways? Asking your PF to create a last-second shot is not the best choice in today's NBA. The main guy that comes to mind for me is Dirk, but Vince was the go-to guy in the clutch for the Mavs, not Dirk.

Dual · Post #1158 » by **Dual** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 12:31 pm

Gordon is the perfect fit next to Pek, and also Ricky will Finally had someone to throw some alleys

. Its not hard to know that if you surround RR with elite athletes things will be easier for us.

minimus · Post #1159 » by **minimus** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 2:52 pm

Dual wrote:Gordon is the perfect fit next to Pek, and also Ricky will Finally had someone to throw some alleys . Its not hard to know that if you surround RR with elite athletes things will be easier for us.

He is terrible fit next to Rubio and Pekovic, because to explore Gordon athletic tools you need either shooting big man who can open paint or high octane offense with good shooters (note that it's difficult to play run and gun with Pek). Two examples: Faried and Marion. They play with high scoring wings Nash-JJ , Lawson-Gallo. It's not even close in terms of generating points with Rubio-KMart/Brewer. Sure you can pair Gordon with Dieng and run at will, but Gordon is awful shooter, so defenders will be able to adjust quickly. Still Gordon is good prospect, but needs at least 2 more years to develop with right coach and team offense system.

Last comparison: Kawhi Leonard. Kawhi was much more polished rookie than Gordon is. However it took 2 full year in SAS system with best organization in NBA to become star in NBA.

Takingbaconback · Post #1160 » by **Takingbaconback** » Sun Jun 1, 2014 3:07 pm

Klomp wrote:
Takingbaconback wrote:Gordon reminds me of a Blake Griffin lite. His free throw shooting is horrible (42.2%), and he has that same griffin mentality where he shrinks from big moments and his offensive game just crumbles. He's never been the late game closer in Arizona so think more of Griffin than Love when it comes to heroics. He isn't skilled with the ball, has these terrible looking shots at times, and occasional aggression seems forced like Griffin. Obviously not as athletic, big, or strong as Griffin which makes you wonder if his talent/skillset are enough to overcome liabilities that Griffin has had to face.

I think the misconception here is that the pick we get for Love has to replace Love's offensive production. Low-post offense won't be an issue if we still have Pekovic and we still have Rubio to create for bigs.

How many PFs do you know who have late-game heroics, o anyways? Asking your PF to create a last-second shot is not the best choice in today's NBA. The main guy that comes to mind for me is Dirk, but Vince was the go-to guy in the clutch for the Mavs, not Dirk.

First of all, Vince carter was never the go to player for the mavs. He got a couple buzzer beaters but Dirk is the definition of a go to guy. Hes been that player for the mavs for about a decade.

Alsothere is no misconception. No one thinks we have to replace Love with another PF or someone as good as him, thats impossible. i was just saying he is not a guy you can throw the ball to late in the game and expect him to do something.

When you talk about a 6th overall pick, that is a pertinent question. When you talk about the wolves roster without love, that is a pertinent topic. Can Aaron Gordon play the late game hero? Because nobody on the roster can do it unless they flip him for thompson or beal.

How many PF in the league shoots a sub 50% at the FT line? josh smith was considered a good player for a couple years but his liabilities on offense and FT line exposed him. I guess you dont think this is a huge deal but just this FT issue alone might be a dealbreaker to me. Not a lot of great prospects after exum so Gordon cant be the wrong pick but its going to take a lot of time for him to be efficient and consistent