Butler has requested a trade (Part II)

[shrink]

From what Woj was saying that the conversation stopped when Minny suddenly asked for that very deal. That there was an on going discussion as if they were getting close to an agreement and then suddenly out of no where Minny asked for an off the wall package. This is one of the examples that is being reported that Minny negotiations have been confusing to teams. And teams believe Minny is just bluffing and making it seem like they are trying to trade Jimmy but actually scheming to keep him

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Apparently, Miami presented their final counter offer and we sit. Jimmy might be playing until the trade deadline or walking.

I don't think Richardson, Bam and a protected first is off the wall, frankly it is meh. It is not some great deal. Not to mention if we want to add Dieng we likely need to take Whiteside.

When I say off the wall, I am not saying unfair. What I am saying they were close to a deal. And where negotiating a small part. As an example Minny may have said ok to two of the player the Heat offerred if they could also include some salary cap relief. Miami may have explored a third team to get that salary cap relief. Then Minnny suddenly ask for JRich, Bam and a FRP that had nothing to do with what they were previously negotiating. Its like going to a Honda car dealership and you see a Accord that you like and you negotiating the interior with the salesman. Then suddenly you say you want a mazda.

You have to remember, you are getting only the MIA side of the story. Thibs and Layden don’t say anything, and have stonewalled reporters here for two years,

and I will also point out that the things you are believing wholeheartedly don’t even corroborate with themselves. Remember, MIA gave their “final offer” a few days ago, and suddenly there was more and more negotiations?

It benefits MIA to try to spin this story that they gave a final offer, then I suppose, they were making progress, and then, out of nowhere, MIN wrecked the deal by asking for more. This sounds like a second attempt to use the media to squeeze MIN, or to get Taylor to intercede.

It’s easy to believe the story that benefits you.

[shrink]

I think Minny is just leading Miami on. And any other team that inquired. Just to say they tried.

Id rather them ask for too much than too little. Most of the leaks are coming from jimmys camp. We dont know what miami is offering, but im guessing richardson isnt included. If so, riley is looking to scam the wolves.

Rockets are offering gordon + a first and maybe tucker. Another trash offer.

Teams look at thibs and layden as vulnerable and are likely using the media into pressuring them into a bad deal.

The only reason teams are interested in getting him right now, is because they feel they can get him at a discount rate. You got to remember teams dont want to screw up their roster because they cant fix it at this time of the year. That is why talks may not get serious again until the trade dead line, when teams may know they are out of the race and then willing to screw up their roster and then fix it during the summer.

The only reason? You mean, adding an All NBA, All Defensive Team player might not be a reason? Wouldn’t want to add a player that for most teams, would be their best player, because it would “screw up” the roster for their lesser guys?

[shrink]

As a simple fan, I have reached the point of frustration, so I can’t imagine what it must be like to be Thibs right now.

1. His best player wants out
2. He is forced to find a trade for a player he wants to keep
3. Jimmy leaks that he wants to be traded and refuses to re-sign in MIN, and limits buyers with a list
4. His GM undercuts him for a while, saying “bring offers to me”
5. Other GM’s spin stories about their dealings to try to pressure him

I’ve reached the level of many fans. Don’t trade Jimmy, if other teams won’t give you a fair offer.

- Jimmy will show up to play.
- MIN will win games again - they simply have too much talent
- Jimmy listed four teams already that he would like a trade to - this guy isn’t locked in anywhere.
- Check again at the trade deadline. For offers this small, it may be better to gamble on a small chance he re-signs, since MIN can give him that fifth year he wants,

[Calinks]

As a simple fan, I have reached the point of frustration, so I can’t imagine what it must be like to be Thibs right now.

1. His best player wants out
2. He is forced to find a trade for a player he wants to keep
3. Jimmy spreads the word that he wants to be traded and refuses to re-sign in MIN, and limits buyers with a list
4. His GM undercuts him for a while, saying “bring offers to me”
5. Other GM’s spin stories about their dealings to try to pressure him

I’ve reached the level of many fans. Don’t trade Jimmy, if other teams won’t give you a fair offer.

- Jimmy will show up to play.
- MIN will win games again - they simply have too much talent
- Jimmy listed four teams already that he would like a trade to - this guy isn’t locked in anywhere.
- Check again at the trade deadline. For offers this small, it may be better to gamble on a small chance he re-signs, since MIN can give him that fifth year he wants,

I am with ya. If indeed Richardson isn't being offered, I dont do that deal. We go into the season and as we approach the deadline we hope the market value goes up as teams are desperate for an injection of life. Worst case scenario is we get no deal by the deadline, Jimmy walks and that would indeed suck but we do get another successful season hopefully and the rookies get a lot of experience under that kind of pressure. Other scenario is during the season Jimmy has a change of heart and decides to resign, though thats the most unlikely.

[Rashodamus]

As a simple fan, I have reached the point of frustration, so I can’t imagine what it must be like to be Thibs right now.

1. His best player wants out
2. He is forced to find a trade for a player he wants to keep
3. Jimmy spreads the word that he wants to be traded and refuses to re-sign in MIN, and limits buyers with a list
4. His GM undercuts him for a while, saying “bring offers to me”
5. Other GM’s spin stories about their dealings to try to pressure him

I’ve reached the level of many fans. Don’t trade Jimmy, if other teams won’t give you a fair offer.

- Jimmy will show up to play.
- MIN will win games again - they simply have too much talent
- Jimmy listed four teams already that he would like a trade to - this guy isn’t locked in anywhere.
- Check again at the trade deadline. For offers this small, it may be better to gamble on a small chance he re-signs, since MIN can give him that fifth year he wants,

I strongly consider telling him not to report. I think he is far too great of an injury risk and that could potentially harm the chance of a deal and make us wish we just moved him for whatever we could now. I also think if hes moved at the deadline why artificially pump a few extra wins in and cost us potential draft slots. If hes going to be gone give the minutes to Okogie and work on developing him, I wouldnt be shocked if hes a far better player than Rose this season.

You talked about making KAT mad, well I think making him play one minute with Butler is a sure fire way to piss him off after he signed his extension, likely with assurances hed be gone. I think thats infinitely more likely to be a problem than bringing in Whiteside and hashing out positions and rotations. I just dont think theres any way that guy can be around the franchise in any capacity, its just a bad idea imo.

[Loyal[]Wolf]

As a simple fan, I have reached the point of frustration, so I can’t imagine what it must be like to be Thibs right now.

1. His best player wants out
2. He is forced to find a trade for a player he wants to keep
3. Jimmy spreads the word that he wants to be traded and refuses to re-sign in MIN, and limits buyers with a list
4. His GM undercuts him for a while, saying “bring offers to me”
5. Other GM’s spin stories about their dealings to try to pressure him

I’ve reached the level of many fans. Don’t trade Jimmy, if other teams won’t give you a fair offer.

- Jimmy will show up to play.
- MIN will win games again - they simply have too much talent
- Jimmy listed four teams already that he would like a trade to - this guy isn’t locked in anywhere.
- Check again at the trade deadline. For offers this small, it may be better to gamble on a small chance he re-signs, since MIN can give him that fifth year he wants,

You're amazing shrink. Always wanted to tell you that.

[big3_8_19_21]

90% of what's being debated here is foolishness. Reports seem pretty clear that JRich has not been offered and that's probably the biggest reason no deal has been done, so we've hit an impasse. The Timberwolves are under no obligation to trade Butler to the Heat and the Heat are under no obligation to trade Richardson to the Wolves. Sounds like either Miami eventually offers him and then MAYBE a deal is worked out depending on the other pieces or Miami doesn't get Butler. There's just no incentive for the Wolves to cave and accept a package that is not worth more than Butler's expiring. I'm not saying Richardson will be offered, maybe Riley thinks he's a star and refuses to ever put him on the table. Fine. Again, Pat Riley is under no obligation to offer him for Jimmy Butler. But the Timberwolves are also under no obligation to trade Jimmy Butler to the Heat for a neutral to negative value package. It's not that he will be offered, it's that if he's not, then I don't see the Wolves ever pulling the trigger.

[twix2500]

I don't think Richardson, Bam and a protected first is off the wall, frankly it is meh. It is not some great deal. Not to mention if we want to add Dieng we likely need to take Whiteside.

When I say off the wall, I am not saying unfair. What I am saying they were close to a deal. And where negotiating a small part. As an example Minny may have said ok to two of the player the Heat offerred if they could also include some salary cap relief. Miami may have explored a third team to get that salary cap relief. Then Minnny suddenly ask for JRich, Bam and a FRP that had nothing to do with what they were previously negotiating. Its like going to a Honda car dealership and you see a Accord that you like and you negotiating the interior with the salesman. Then suddenly you say you want a mazda.

You have to remember, you are getting only the MIA side of the story. Thibs and Layden don’t say anything, and have stonewalled reporters here for two years,

and I will also point out that the things you are believing wholeheartedly don’t even corroborate with themselves. Remember, MIA gave their “final offer” a few days ago, and suddenly there was more and more negotiations?

It benefits MIA to try to spin this story that they gave a final offer, then I suppose, they were making progress, and then, out of nowhere, MIN wrecked the deal by asking for more. This sounds like a second attempt to use the media to squeeze MIN, or to get Taylor to intercede.

It’s easy to believe the story that benefits you.

Huh there was never suddenly more to the offer. The JRich, Bam and FRP was the Minny request that threw everything for a loop. It's never been establish who camp is saying what. Miami has been known to never leak. That is the sequence that ESPN and main stream reporters are telling it.

It's been consistent for two weeks that how Minny is conducting these trades has been confusing to teams. And I see why.

And there nothing I said that benefits me or the Heat.

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk

[Crazy-Canuck]

I think the right play might be to start okogie to see what he can do. Give wiggs, okogie, and kat the season together.

[Grubie024]

As a simple fan, I have reached the point of frustration, so I can’t imagine what it must be like to be Thibs right now.

1. His best player wants out
2. He is forced to find a trade for a player he wants to keep
3. Jimmy spreads the word that he wants to be traded and refuses to re-sign in MIN, and limits buyers with a list
4. His GM undercuts him for a while, saying “bring offers to me”
5. Other GM’s spin stories about their dealings to try to pressure him

I’ve reached the level of many fans. Don’t trade Jimmy, if other teams won’t give you a fair offer.

- Jimmy will show up to play.
- MIN will win games again - they simply have too much talent
- Jimmy listed four teams already that he would like a trade to - this guy isn’t locked in anywhere.
- Check again at the trade deadline. For offers this small, it may be better to gamble on a small chance he re-signs, since MIN can give him that fifth year he wants,

Are you sure Taylor would sign off on a 5 year max? I've been of the mind that we refuse to offer him the 5 year max which is why he wants to be traded.

[big3_8_19_21]

When I say off the wall, I am not saying unfair. What I am saying they were close to a deal. And where negotiating a small part. As an example Minny may have said ok to two of the player the Heat offerred if they could also include some salary cap relief. Miami may have explored a third team to get that salary cap relief. Then Minnny suddenly ask for JRich, Bam and a FRP that had nothing to do with what they were previously negotiating. Its like going to a Honda car dealership and you see a Accord that you like and you negotiating the interior with the salesman. Then suddenly you say you want a mazda.

You have to remember, you are getting only the MIA side of the story. Thibs and Layden don’t say anything, and have stonewalled reporters here for two years,

and I will also point out that the things you are believing wholeheartedly don’t even corroborate with themselves. Remember, MIA gave their “final offer” a few days ago, and suddenly there was more and more negotiations?

It benefits MIA to try to spin this story that they gave a final offer, then I suppose, they were making progress, and then, out of nowhere, MIN wrecked the deal by asking for more. This sounds like a second attempt to use the media to squeeze MIN, or to get Taylor to intercede.

It’s easy to believe the story that benefits you.

Huh there was never suddenly more to the offer. The JRich, Bam and FRP was the Minny request that threw everything for a loop. It's never been establish who camp is saying what. Miami has been known to never leak. That is the sequence that ESPN and main stream reporters are telling it.

It's been consistent for two weeks that how Minny is conducting these trades has been confusing to teams. And I see why.

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk

You understand significant progress can be made around those names, right? “We’ll take this contract, but we still need player X included.” “We still won’t include player X, but we’re willing to include this pick.”

Riley would be a fool to include his best assets until he absolutely had to. Of course he hasn’t offered them yet. Again, maybe he won’t offer Richardson, but then Butler ain’t going to Miami.

[Rashodamus]

I think the right play might be to start okogie to see what he can do. Give wiggs, okogie, and kat the season together.

I agree.

I think if were lucky Rose performs adequately and at the deadline can be moved to a contender as a no risk mercenary. Until that time Okogie should get every chance to outplay him.

[shrink]

As a simple fan, I have reached the point of frustration, so I can’t imagine what it must be like to be Thibs right now.

1. His best player wants out
2. He is forced to find a trade for a player he wants to keep
3. Jimmy spreads the word that he wants to be traded and refuses to re-sign in MIN, and limits buyers with a list
4. His GM undercuts him for a while, saying “bring offers to me”
5. Other GM’s spin stories about their dealings to try to pressure him

I’ve reached the level of many fans. Don’t trade Jimmy, if other teams won’t give you a fair offer.

- Jimmy will show up to play.
- MIN will win games again - they simply have too much talent
- Jimmy listed four teams already that he would like a trade to - this guy isn’t locked in anywhere.
- Check again at the trade deadline. For offers this small, it may be better to gamble on a small chance he re-signs, since MIN can give him that fifth year he wants,

Are you sure Taylor would sign off on a 5 year max? I've been of the mind that we refuse to offer him the 5 year max which is why he wants to be traded.

It has never been said either way, but I would be shocked if he would not pay.

Taylor has always been willing to pay for talent, and it’s especially important for MIN to do so, since we have trouble drawing free agents, Taylor is a billionaire, and he is not getting any younger, moreover, he is no miser. The reason the CBA even created a max deal clause was because Taylor gave Garnett such a big contract (biggest ever, at that time), that other owners said we needed a max amount.

Taylor already offered Jimmy the max extension, but the CBA limits that to a smaller amount based on a raise to Jimmy ‘s current deal. Everyone knew he could get a higher max if he waited until the end of the season to get a higher number based on the current cap, which encorporates the new tv deal. Butler reportedly was mad that MIN didn’t clear cap space to renegotiate his contract to get that max now, however, it would have been nearly impossible - MIN is $20 mil over the cap, and they would have needed to be $30 mil under the cap to give Jimmy that deal.

Superstars drive the nba, and determine the course of franchises. A legit superstar is a value contract, limited in size due to that same max deal clause. I would be shocked if Taylor wouldn’t pay Jimmy the max at the end of the season,

[minimus]

Butler is commited to re-sign with MIA. MIA has no chance to get an All Star player anytime soon. That is as simple as that. They try to put MIN under the pressure but it is probably their best chance to re-tool. As MIN fan I understand what our management is doing. As for Riley I understand as well what he is doing. Whiteside looks healthy again, there wont be other chance to trade him.

At this point I'd be okay if we get "just" Whiteside, Winslow, Richardson + FRP for Dieng and Butler.

[KGdaBom]

If miami continues to offer garbage, then just hang up.

Minny is better off letting him sit than to take a bad deal. Jimmy is a twat off the court, but on the court, he's still a competitive guy. I don't think he'll sit if healthy.

I think Minny is just leading Miami on. And any other team that inquired. Just to say they tried.

I hope that's true.

[KGdaBom]

As a simple fan, I have reached the point of frustration, so I can’t imagine what it must be like to be Thibs right now.

1. His best player wants out
2. He is forced to find a trade for a player he wants to keep
3. Jimmy spreads the word that he wants to be traded and refuses to re-sign in MIN, and limits buyers with a list
4. His GM undercuts him for a while, saying “bring offers to me”
5. Other GM’s spin stories about their dealings to try to pressure him

I’ve reached the level of many fans. Don’t trade Jimmy, if other teams won’t give you a fair offer.

- Jimmy will show up to play.
- MIN will win games again - they simply have too much talent
- Jimmy listed four teams already that he would like a trade to - this guy isn’t locked in anywhere.
- Check again at the trade deadline. For offers this small, it may be better to gamble on a small chance he re-signs, since MIN can give him that fifth year he wants,

Are you sure Taylor would sign off on a 5 year max? I've been of the mind that we refuse to offer him the 5 year max which is why he wants to be traded.

It has never been said either way, but I would be shocked if he would not pay.

Taylor has always been willing to pay for talent, and it’s especially important for MIN to do so, since we have trouble drawing free agents, Taylor is a billionaire, and he is not getting any younger, moreover, he is no miser. The reason the CBA even created a max deal clause was because Taylor gave Garnett such a big contract (biggest ever, at that time), that other owners said we needed a max amount.

Taylor already offered Jimmy the max extension, but the CBA limits that to a smaller amount based on a raise to Jimmy ‘s current deal. Everyone knew he could get a higher max if he waited until the end of the season to get a higher number based on the current cap, which encorporates the new tv deal. Butler reportedly was mad that MIN didn’t clear cap space to renegotiate his contract to get that max now, however, it would have been nearly impossible - MIN is $20 mil over the cap, and they would have needed to be $30 mil under the cap to give Jimmy that deal.

Superstars drive the nba, and determine the course of franchises. A legit superstar is a value contract, limited in size due to that same max deal clause. I would be shocked if Taylor wouldn’t pay Jimmy the max at the end of the season,

I sure hope you are right. I'd love 6 more years of Jimmy.

[shrink]

Are you sure Taylor would sign off on a 5 year max? I've been of the mind that we refuse to offer him the 5 year max which is why he wants to be traded.

It has never been said either way, but I would be shocked if he would not pay.

Taylor has always been willing to pay for talent, and it’s especially important for MIN to do so, since we have trouble drawing free agents, Taylor is a billionaire, and he is not getting any younger, moreover, he is no miser. The reason the CBA even created a max deal clause was because Taylor gave Garnett such a big contract (biggest ever, at that time), that other owners said we needed a max amount.

Taylor already offered Jimmy the max extension, but the CBA limits that to a smaller amount based on a raise to Jimmy ‘s current deal. Everyone knew he could get a higher max if he waited until the end of the season to get a higher number based on the current cap, which encorporates the new tv deal. Butler reportedly was mad that MIN didn’t clear cap space to renegotiate his contract to get that max now, however, it would have been nearly impossible - MIN is $20 mil over the cap, and they would have needed to be $30 mil under the cap to give Jimmy that deal.

Superstars drive the nba, and determine the course of franchises. A legit superstar is a value contract, limited in size due to that same max deal clause. I would be shocked if Taylor wouldn’t pay Jimmy the max at the end of the season,

I sure hope you are right. I'd love 6 more years of Jimmy.

Oh I don’t think he will sign now, but I don’t think his decision to want out was because Taylor told him he wouldn’t pay the All Star the supermax next year.

However, if Jimmy’s main goal is to get paid, MIN still has the biggest carrot if they don’t trade him .. that fifth year.

[mplsfonz23]

As a simple fan, I have reached the point of frustration, so I can’t imagine what it must be like to be Thibs right now.

1. His best player wants out
2. He is forced to find a trade for a player he wants to keep
3. Jimmy spreads the word that he wants to be traded and refuses to re-sign in MIN, and limits buyers with a list
4. His GM undercuts him for a while, saying “bring offers to me”
5. Other GM’s spin stories about their dealings to try to pressure him

I’ve reached the level of many fans. Don’t trade Jimmy, if other teams won’t give you a fair offer.

- Jimmy will show up to play.
- MIN will win games again - they simply have too much talent
- Jimmy listed four teams already that he would like a trade to - this guy isn’t locked in anywhere.
- Check again at the trade deadline. For offers this small, it may be better to gamble on a small chance he re-signs, since MIN can give him that fifth year he wants,

This^

Plus if we want chump offers, we can take them at the deadline. By then, Miami might be under more pressure, and have missed their window to keep a couple of low level players. Trade him to a team that helps us, and let him suffer the losses when he can choose.
It's not like he still wont get $100 million, so I don't feel sorry for him.

[KGdaBom]

It has never been said either way, but I would be shocked if he would not pay.

Taylor has always been willing to pay for talent, and it’s especially important for MIN to do so, since we have trouble drawing free agents, Taylor is a billionaire, and he is not getting any younger, moreover, he is no miser. The reason the CBA even created a max deal clause was because Taylor gave Garnett such a big contract (biggest ever, at that time), that other owners said we needed a max amount.

Taylor already offered Jimmy the max extension, but the CBA limits that to a smaller amount based on a raise to Jimmy ‘s current deal. Everyone knew he could get a higher max if he waited until the end of the season to get a higher number based on the current cap, which encorporates the new tv deal. Butler reportedly was mad that MIN didn’t clear cap space to renegotiate his contract to get that max now, however, it would have been nearly impossible - MIN is $20 mil over the cap, and they would have needed to be $30 mil under the cap to give Jimmy that deal.

Superstars drive the nba, and determine the course of franchises. A legit superstar is a value contract, limited in size due to that same max deal clause. I would be shocked if Taylor wouldn’t pay Jimmy the max at the end of the season,

I sure hope you are right. I'd love 6 more years of Jimmy.

Oh I don’t think he will sign now, but I don’t think his decision to want out was because Taylor told him he wouldn’t pay the All Star the supermax next year.

However, if Jimmy’s main goal is to get paid, MIN still has the biggest carrot if they don’t trade him .. that fifth year.

I know that he isn't signing now. I just hope we keep him and sign him to the five year max extension next year. He is NOT ELIGIBLE for the Supermax. I do think his trade request was because he got indications we would not max him next year.

[shrink]

You’re right, I need to stop the habit of using the term “supermax” for anything.

It confuses people with the 5% increase as a Designated Player, or the 5% increase based on NBA experience. I mean his max is higher than Wiggins max, and the word “supermax” doesn’t denote why.