Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition)

[jpatrick]

Here’s another interesting take by someone on the trade board.

SAC said they wouldn’t put Halliburton on the table for Simmons, but they traded him for Sabonis.

I think many people overvalue Simmons, or don’t consider all the risk he carries.

Wow Halliburton is a very good player. I think just based on talent the trade was equal. However, Indi has Brogdon so they traded a glut at center for a glut at PG.

I think Halliburton works best with another guard that is a primary creator because he doesn’t get to the rim well. He would’ve been a great fit with Ant. So, I think Brogdon and Halliburton will mesh well. Plus, I prefer Turners defense to Sabonis’ offense, so I like the move.

[KGdaBom]

He sure has been one for PHI this year

He is a difference maker for them because he refuses to play for them. No other team in the NBA has mistreated Simmons the way Philly did. I don't think any other team would have a problem with him.

Shrink you seek out every opportunity to take a cheap shot at Simmons and then act hurt when somebody calls you a Simmons hater. Give it a break. You are a Simmons hater.

No, I don’t like people dismissing anyone’s statements by classifying them with an ad hominem attack. I know this has become incredibly common in the media these days, dismissing what people say by labeling them, but it has been a fallacy since the time of Socrates, and we can do better than that.

A person who relishes every opportunity to take a cheap shot at a player is a hater. You fit the description. It doesn't mean that everything you say has no merit, but it does mean that everything you say about Simmons has to be taken with a large grain of salt.

I'm not dismissing you, but when you say we can do better how about looking in the mirror. You can do better than taking a cheap shot at Simmons every chance you get and then I will take what you have to say about him more seriously.

[KGdaBom]

Here’s another interesting take by someone on the trade board.

SAC said they wouldn’t put Halliburton on the table for Simmons, but they traded him for Sabonis.

I think many people overvalue Simmons, or don’t consider all the risk he carries.

Wow Halliburton is a very good player. I think just based on talent the trade was equal. However, Indi has Brogdon so they traded a glut at center for a glut at PG.

I think Halliburton works best with another guard that is a primary creator because he doesn’t get to the rim well. He would’ve been a great fit with Ant. So, I think Brogdon and Halliburton will mesh well. Plus, I prefer Turners defense to Sabonis’ offense, so I like the move.

Halliburton had 17 assists his last game out so he's not too shabby at creating.

the Pacers wanted a major haul for Domantas Sabonis and that's exactly what they got, landing an emerging star who is fresh off a game with a career-high 17 assists. Indiana's new backcourt is a force to be reckoned with and Haliburton should benefit from improved court spacing alongside Brogdon. It also helps that he's joining a Pacers team that averages 31.3 more passes per game than the Kings.

[shrink]

It sure looks like the deadline landing spots for Simmons are drying up today, with IND, SAC and POR making these trades.

And now Beal is undergoing season ending surgery! What a day.

[winforlose]

It sure looks like the deadline landing spots for Simmons are drying up today, with IND, SAC and POR making these trades.

And now Beal is undergoing season ending surgery! What a day.

If the 76ers don’t make the playoffs (play in elimination,) or do make the playoffs and lose in the first round, and they cannot move Simmons in the offseason Morey is going to be in the hot seat. Embiid has knee issues and likely a short window where he is this dominant. To waste it trying to get max value on Simmons is beyond crazy. This is a game of chicken where everyone goes off the cliff. The only question is who pulls the parachute first. If neither does both men will irreparably damage their careers.

[GutUNC]

It sure looks like the deadline landing spots for Simmons are drying up today, with IND, SAC and POR making these trades.

And now Beal is undergoing season ending surgery! What a day.

If the 76ers don’t make the playoffs (play in elimination,) or do make the playoffs and lose in the first round, and they cannot move Simmons in the offseason Morey is going to be in the hot seat. Embiid has knee issues and likely a short window where he is this dominant. To waste it trying to get max value on Simmons is beyond crazy. This is a game of chicken where everyone goes off the cliff. The only question is who pulls the parachute first. If neither does both men will irreparably damage their careers.

If you don't think ownership has been in the loop for this entire saga, I don't know what to tell you.

[winforlose]

And now Beal is undergoing season ending surgery! What a day.

If the 76ers don’t make the playoffs (play in elimination,) or do make the playoffs and lose in the first round, and they cannot move Simmons in the offseason Morey is going to be in the hot seat. Embiid has knee issues and likely a short window where he is this dominant. To waste it trying to get max value on Simmons is beyond crazy. This is a game of chicken where everyone goes off the cliff. The only question is who pulls the parachute first. If neither does both men will irreparably damage their careers.

If you don't think ownership has been in the loop for this entire saga, I don't know what to tell you.

Morey is known as a deal maker and probably gets quite a bit of rope in all his decisions. Sacrificing a season on the hope that you get the return you want is a risky move. The problem with all that rope is sometimes you risk banging yourself with it. Although, in this case it looks like he is going to get away with it. Harden wants to be a 76er and the Nets want Simmons, Maxey and Thybulle.

[GutUNC]

If the 76ers don’t make the playoffs (play in elimination,) or do make the playoffs and lose in the first round, and they cannot move Simmons in the offseason Morey is going to be in the hot seat. Embiid has knee issues and likely a short window where he is this dominant. To waste it trying to get max value on Simmons is beyond crazy. This is a game of chicken where everyone goes off the cliff. The only question is who pulls the parachute first. If neither does both men will irreparably damage their careers.

If you don't think ownership has been in the loop for this entire saga, I don't know what to tell you.

Morey is known as a deal maker and probably gets quite a bit of rope in all his decisions. Sacrificing a season on the hope that you get the return you want is a risky move. The problem with all that rope is sometimes you risk banging yourself with it. Although, in this case it looks like he is going to get away with it. Harden wants to be a 76er and the Nets want Simmons, Maxey and Thybulle.

It's not sacrificing a season if the Plan B doesn't make you a contender which, if the rumored offers are actually what is out there, is the case here. If you're down 4-1, it's better to wait on the potential grand slam in the offseason then accept the sacrifice fly now in the spirit of "do something".

But my fundamental point is that ownership isn't going to be surprised with whatever happens. If they wanted to go the "do something" route, then they'll demand that happen before the deadline.


P.S. I would have the odds against a trade coming together, but if it does it's certainly not going to be Simmons AND Maxey AND Thybulle.

[winforlose]

If you don't think ownership has been in the loop for this entire saga, I don't know what to tell you.

Morey is known as a deal maker and probably gets quite a bit of rope in all his decisions. Sacrificing a season on the hope that you get the return you want is a risky move. The problem with all that rope is sometimes you risk banging yourself with it. Although, in this case it looks like he is going to get away with it. Harden wants to be a 76er and the Nets want Simmons, Maxey and Thybulle.

It's not sacrificing a season if the Plan B doesn't make you a contender which, if the rumored offers are actually what is out there, is the case here. If you're down 4-1, it's better to wait on the potential grand slam in the offseason then accept the sacrifice fly now in the spirit of "do something".

But my fundamental point is that ownership isn't going to be surprised with whatever happens. If they wanted to go the "do something" route, then they'll demand that happen before the deadline.


P.S. I would have the odds against a trade coming together, but if it does it's certainly not going to be Simmons AND Maxey AND Thybulle.

I agree in principle, I just wonder what the “Something” was. Holding out for a superstar is an incredibly risky gamble. Also, Embiid only has so many good years, and losing one of them is more serious than it would be if Embiid did not have chronic knee issues.

I don’t know that they can do better than Harden or get him cheaper than what I mentioned above.

[GopherIt!]

Interesting interview w Tobias Harris Sr (Tobias dad & agent.) he spoke about Philly’s need for true Pg and mentioned PBev as a player who would really help his son & Philly if Ben is traded.

https://phl17.com/phl17-news/father-and-agent-of-tobias-harris-discusses-trade-rumors-family-and-much-more/

[GutUNC]

Morey is known as a deal maker and probably gets quite a bit of rope in all his decisions. Sacrificing a season on the hope that you get the return you want is a risky move. The problem with all that rope is sometimes you risk banging yourself with it. Although, in this case it looks like he is going to get away with it. Harden wants to be a 76er and the Nets want Simmons, Maxey and Thybulle.

It's not sacrificing a season if the Plan B doesn't make you a contender which, if the rumored offers are actually what is out there, is the case here. If you're down 4-1, it's better to wait on the potential grand slam in the offseason then accept the sacrifice fly now in the spirit of "do something".

But my fundamental point is that ownership isn't going to be surprised with whatever happens. If they wanted to go the "do something" route, then they'll demand that happen before the deadline.


P.S. I would have the odds against a trade coming together, but if it does it's certainly not going to be Simmons AND Maxey AND Thybulle.

I agree in principle, I just wonder what the “Something” was. Holding out for a superstar is an incredibly risky gamble. Also, Embiid only has so many good years, and losing one of them is more serious than it would be if Embiid did not have chronic knee issues.

I don’t know that they can do better than Harden or get him cheaper than what I mentioned above.

I haven't seen a proposed deal that makes the Sixers anything resembling a contender with the exception of Harden (and not if it costs all your available 2/3s outside of Danny Green.) What you're calling "holding out for a superstar" is really just "waiting for a trade that materially impacts your chances of winning a championship". CJ McCollum, or Minnesota's draft picks don't accomplish that. Your best chance is Harden (or Lillard maybe), either now or over the summer.

[younggunsmn]

This could get really interesting. Beal out for year (and essentially bird rights to trade), Portland blowing it up.
I'm not certain that if Harden goes to Philly that Simmons doesn't end up somewhere else and there aren't a whole lot more moving pieces. It could get crazy and we certainly could be a part of it.

PHI: Harden
NJ: Lillard/Beal
MIN or other 3rd wheel: Simmons
POR/WAS: Picks, prospects, and exprings
OKC/BOS/mystery team possibly Orlando: Tobias Harris + picks or Deangelo Russell

[GutUNC]

This could get really interesting. Beal out for year (and essentially bird rights to trade), Portland blowing it up.
I'm not certain that if Harden goes to Philly that Simmons doesn't end up somewhere else and there aren't a whole lot more moving pieces. It could get crazy and we certainly could be a part of it.

PHI: Harden
NJ: Lillard/Beal
MIN or other 3rd wheel: Simmons
POR/WAS: Picks, prospects, and exprings
OKC/BOS/mystery team possibly Orlando: Tobias Harris + picks or Deangelo Russell

So you have Brooklyn trading Harden but passing on Simmons for a guy who's either possibly out for the year or definitely out for the year? Kinda looks like you were just looking for a way to shoehorn "MIN or other 3rd wheel" into a trade they aren't contributing to.

[IceManBK1]

any chance nets don't want Simmons..cuz he can't shoot? we can send shooters to the nets. Nets will love beasley, beverly who can play alongside irving. or prince who has come alive these past few games with his 3 pt shooting also.

[D1SGRUNTL3D]

any chance nets don't want Simmons..cuz he can't shoot? we can send shooters to the nets. Nets will love beasley, beverly who can play alongside irving. or prince who has come alive these past few games with his 3 pt shooting also.

This is my personal conspiracy theory….Trade harden, kyries personal issues and Brooklyn’s home playoff games get very tough to win if teams sell out to stop Durant. BS cant score and the rest of the team is barely G league material . That’s why They’re asking for curry and maxey to help KD in Brooklyn games.

On the road- BS, KD and KI are a good trio. They’re probably tanking to get out of home court advantage. They don’t want it so they get KI.


IF they overplay their hand and end up the 9th seed, hosting a win or go home play in game…then LOL.

[younggunsmn]

This could get really interesting. Beal out for year (and essentially bird rights to trade), Portland blowing it up.
I'm not certain that if Harden goes to Philly that Simmons doesn't end up somewhere else and there aren't a whole lot more moving pieces. It could get crazy and we certainly could be a part of it.

PHI: Harden
NJ: Lillard/Beal
MIN or other 3rd wheel: Simmons
POR/WAS: Picks, prospects, and exprings
OKC/BOS/mystery team possibly Orlando: Tobias Harris + picks or Deangelo Russell

So you have Brooklyn trading Harden but passing on Simmons for a guy who's either possibly out for the year or definitely out for the year? Kinda looks like you were just looking for a way to shoehorn "MIN or other 3rd wheel" into a trade they aren't contributing to.

Both players are worlds better than SImmons,
Dame would be back for the playoffs and Beal would certainly be ecstatic to play with Durant and Kyrie long term.
We have no idea how Brooklyn values Simmons or views his current situation or injury history, or if it thinks he's worth ~70 mil of salary and luxury tax per year for the next 4 years.
And the wolves are certainly interested.

[younggunsmn]

any chance nets don't want Simmons..cuz he can't shoot? we can send shooters to the nets. Nets will love beasley, beverly who can play alongside irving. or prince who has come alive these past few games with his 3 pt shooting also.

This is my personal conspiracy theory….Trade harden, kyries personal issues and Brooklyn’s home playoff games get very tough to win if teams sell out to stop Durant. BS cant score and the rest of the team is barely G league material . That’s why They’re asking for curry and maxey to help KD in Brooklyn games.

On the road- BS, KD and KI are a good trio. They’re probably tanking to get out of home court advantage. They don’t want it so they get KI.


IF they overplay their hand and end up the 9th seed, hosting a win or go home play in game…then LOL.

Tanking to lose homecourt in the playoffs? Had not considered that. They better be careful they don't slip into the play in or worse after the last couple weeks.

[younggunsmn]

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y77mj6st

Wolves out: Beasley, Prince, Okogie, Bolmaro, 2022 1st (unprotected), 2024 1st (top 4)
Wolves In: Simmons
Net 2021 salary: -1.0 mil

Phi Out: Simmons, Maxey, Future 1st
Phi In: Harden
Net 2021 salary: +8.7 million

BRK IN: Lillard, Okogie
BRK OUT: Harden
Net 2021 salary: -0.9 million

POR IN: Beasley, Prince, Bolmaro, Maxey, 2022 MN 1st, 2024 MN 1st, Future PHI 1st
POR OUT: Lillard
Net 2021 salary: -6.8 million


Leaves Wolves with 11 players plus 2 2-way players. Wolves clear 1 mil in salary, enough to fit another vet min under the tax.
Can always attach a 2nd and trade layman for 2 minimum players or cap space to sign 2 more bodies. There are a whole slew of vet bigs on BRK and Portland you could send to us in the trade.

I tried variations with pat bev going to philly, but to take his salary made it too complicated with danny green and another player needing to go out. I had one with beverly to PHI, Green and Prince to BRK, and Harris and Korkmaz to Portland.

I think it will take adding at least Maxey to Simmons to make the value close.
PHI and BRK keep their championship windows open,
Portland adds Maxey and 3 draft picks to Simons to start the rebuild, with Beasley getting a ton of shots up there where if his shooting returns to the mean you have a value contract for 2 years.
MIN may get the best of it on paper as those are likely non-lottery picks, but they are also taking on the riskiest asset, and the other 3 teams all seem to get what they want.
Would Portland rather cut us out and take SImmons themselves, or would they rather not risk him being disgruntled with a rebuild?

[D1SGRUNTL3D]

any chance nets don't want Simmons..cuz he can't shoot? we can send shooters to the nets. Nets will love beasley, beverly who can play alongside irving. or prince who has come alive these past few games with his 3 pt shooting also.

This is my personal conspiracy theory….Trade harden, kyries personal issues and Brooklyn’s home playoff games get very tough to win if teams sell out to stop Durant. BS cant score and the rest of the team is barely G league material . That’s why They’re asking for curry and maxey to help KD in Brooklyn games.

On the road- BS, KD and KI are a good trio. They’re probably tanking to get out of home court advantage. They don’t want it so they get KI.


IF they overplay their hand and end up the 9th seed, hosting a win or go home play in game…then LOL.

Tanking to lose homecourt in the playoffs? Had not considered that. They better be careful they don't slip into the play in or worse after the last couple weeks.

I mean…they’re pros. Is home court really that daunting Vs having Kyrie or whoever their backup PG is playing an extra game?

I don’t think they’re tanking…but i doubt they’re gonna rush KD back to try and get a top 4 seed. They’d probably prefer kyrie to play as many games as possible

[Domejandro]

Jon Krawczynski says we are out on the Simmons sweepstakes, which is disappointing - but expected - given our lack of serious assets available.