Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition

[shrink]

Contender gets Randle
Contender sends rebuild assets

Utah gets rebuild assets
Uah gives Utah John Collins

MIN gets John Collins and a $0 to $6.4 mil player?
MIN sends Randle


Or maybe a four teamer, where MIA gets Randle + Jordan Clarkson, and Jimmy to that contender? This works financially:

MIA GIVES: Jimmy Butler
MIA GETS: Julius Randle + Jordan Clarkson (Sexton is too expensive)

HOU GIVES: Jabari Smith Jr, Steven Adams (exp), Jeff Green (exp), JaSean Tate (exp), Aaron Holiday
HOU GETS: Jimmy Butler

UTA GIVES: John Collins + Jordan Clarkson
UTA GETS: Jabari Smith Jr + three expirings

MIN GIVES: Julius Randle
MIN GETS: John Collins + Aaron Holiday

Collins can play smallball center and PF, and Aaron Holiday is a small backup PG, so the fit is okay. I think MIN needs more value though, either from HOU or MIA. I wouldn’t mind nabbing Jabari for ourselves too.

Randle for Jabari, Steven Adams expiring, and a $4.8 to $10.6 third player.

[Norseman79]

I think Minnesota needs to be smart and understand what they're building for. Do they want an immediate fix to make a run this year? Or do they want to set themselves up for long-term sustainable success? Very easy to see a path both directions depending on what they're willing to give up. I actually think there's moves to be made that could do both at the same time, hoping the wolves do too.

Everybody has been pretty happy with what's happened with Dante being moved into the starting lineup. However, I still believe we need a starting point guard as that is not truly his position. Don't give me the positionless basketball stuff. While I believe he is capable of playing some point guard, I also feel like we need a legit starter in that position. A three guard rotation of DD, Edwards, and a 3rd guy would work with DD playing as a combo-guard.
From a frontcourt perspective, we have a solid two guys in McDaniels and Naz, a defender and an offensive guy, we could use a Swiss army knife guy in that position. A rotation of McDaniels, Naz, and a guy like Kyle Anderson (ok size to play both 3/4).

Finally, we really need a legit backup center. Yes, Rudy makes a lot of money, but I would love to see his minutes reduces and to find a guy that could split minutes with him or close.

There are definitely moves that could do all this in one swoop. There are also players that could fit both a short and long-term vision that could be considered attainable.

To recap, a starting point guard, a good rebounding combo forward, a legit center.

[Klomp]

Read on Twitter

[Norseman79]

Read on Twitter

Huh...who would have thunk it

[BlacJacMac]

Read on Twitter

I was just thinking...all we need is another SG...

But seriously, I hate Poole. He's a low BBIQ, super high usage, super streaky player. Terrible defender and all his value comes from, what looks to be, massive outlier 3pt shooting. And he actually would add to our rebounding and turnover problems.

Even scoring 22 PPG on really good splits, Washington is better on offense when he's on the bench.

He's had 1 season as a positive player and that was riding the coattails of a loaded GSW team that won the title.

[ILC]

Marc Stein saying Wolves are interested in facilitating the Jimmy Butler trade as a 3rd team. Made it clear Wolves want nothing to do with Jimmy again, but purely as a facilitator. What could that look like?

Can't figure anything out without taking back pure garbage expirings which doesn't help with competitiveness this year or going back to Cam Johnson/John Collins which would eliminate the need of being a 3rd team (unless the Heat REALLY want Randle as "star power").

[winforlose]

Marc Stein saying Wolves are interested in facilitating the Jimmy Butler trade as a 3rd team. Made it clear Wolves want nothing to do with Jimmy again, but purely as a facilitator. What could that look like?

Can't figure anything out without taking back pure garbage expirings which doesn't help with competitiveness this year or going back to Cam Johnson/John Collins which would eliminate the need of being a 3rd team (unless the Heat REALLY want Randle as "star power").

Depends on who is outgoing. We could end up with Nurk or Grayson Allen if dealing with the Suns directly. We could end up team four in a deal and try to snag a value deal using Randle. What this tells me is that we are not afraid to pay the tax next year. That said, I do think we avoid the 2nd apron.

[winforlose]

I think Minnesota needs to be smart and understand what they're building for. Do they want an immediate fix to make a run this year? Or do they want to set themselves up for long-term sustainable success? Very easy to see a path both directions depending on what they're willing to give up. I actually think there's moves to be made that could do both at the same time, hoping the wolves do too.

Everybody has been pretty happy with what's happened with Dante being moved into the starting lineup. However, I still believe we need a starting point guard as that is not truly his position. Don't give me the positionless basketball stuff. While I believe he is capable of playing some point guard, I also feel like we need a legit starter in that position. A three guard rotation of DD, Edwards, and a 3rd guy would work with DD playing as a combo-guard.
From a frontcourt perspective, we have a solid two guys in McDaniels and Naz, a defender and an offensive guy, we could use a Swiss army knife guy in that position. A rotation of McDaniels, Naz, and a guy like Kyle Anderson (ok size to play both 3/4).

Finally, we really need a legit backup center. Yes, Rudy makes a lot of money, but I would love to see his minutes reduces and to find a guy that could split minutes with him or close.

There are definitely moves that could do all this in one swoop. There are also players that could fit both a short and long-term vision that could be considered attainable.

To recap, a starting point guard, a good rebounding combo forward, a legit center.

In honor of the fact that I have said the same thing for months, I am gonna bust out the old wrestling quote “Oh my brother… TESTIFY!”

But in all seriousness, I just listened to Kyle Theige say on Howls and Growls that we don’t need another guard. That comment was as short sighted as it was flat out wrong. Yes Dilly needs some minutes, but Mike might need to not play some minutes and figure out his wrist with time to ramp back up for the playoffs. Having another legit guard who can step in if Dilly rolls his ankle and Mike sprains his anything, or Finch realizes that Ant likes winning playoff games and Dilly cannot help with that this year, is essential. Going forward having someone who can start while Dilly develops off the bench for a year or two will be vital to developing not just Dilly, but Shannon, and Minott, and whoever else gets to play with actual PGs.

P.S, We cannot count on absolute health every year. We got lucky last year that KAT was the only guy to miss real time, but with DDV out with a toe already, and Dilly already having missed time two ankle injuries, TSJ out with a foot sprain, and Mike dealing with a wrist, having contingencies for things like Rudy missing time or Mike missing more time while Donte is out is vital to our survival this year and in the future. The roster construction needs to change in favor of balance.

[shrink]

Kyle Theige is the Charles Barkley of Wolves sports analysis.

[shrink]

I’ve seen Cam’s contract incentives. If he went in trade to a playoff team, his salary number would be $23.6m, so Minnesota would HAVE to aggregate if Minnesota isn’t trading Randle, Rudy, or Edwards.

Good news. I wouldn’t want to trade Jaden for him.

[Klomp]

Read on Twitter

I was just thinking...all we need is another SG...

But seriously, I hate Poole. He's a low BBIQ, super high usage, super streaky player. Terrible defender and all his value comes from, what looks to be, massive outlier 3pt shooting. And he actually would add to our rebounding and turnover problems.

Even scoring 22 PPG on really good splits, Washington is better on offense when he's on the bench.

He's had 1 season as a positive player and that was riding the coattails of a loaded GSW team that won the title.

I tend to agree. I didn't share this because I agree with it, just because it's an interesting discussion point.

[Norseman79]

Here is the issue with trading players....other teams have to want them and give you respectable value if you want to save face.

[shangrila]

Marc Stein saying Wolves are interested in facilitating the Jimmy Butler trade as a 3rd team. Made it clear Wolves want nothing to do with Jimmy again, but purely as a facilitator. What could that look like?

Can't figure anything out without taking back pure garbage expirings which doesn't help with competitiveness this year or going back to Cam Johnson/John Collins which would eliminate the need of being a 3rd team (unless the Heat REALLY want Randle as "star power").

That was my thought earlier in the season, since Randle does have some star power on paper and fits the salary they're looking for (no contracts longer than 2 years). I've given up a bit at this point since the while Butler trade situation is a shambles with his "I'm only going to Phoenix" stance and the fact Beal would then have to approve going to a 3rd team, since the Heat don't want him.

[shangrila]

Actually, I just might have found something:

MIA trade: Jimmy Butler, Keshad Johnson
MIA get: Julius Randle, Cole Anthony
Reason - Get out from Butler, save money this season and get back 2 productive players with contracts that fit the 2 year window they're looking for (Anthony technically has a 3rd year, but it's a team option).

PHO trade: Bradley Beal, '31 1st
PHO get: Jimmy Butler
Reason - They want Jimmy, they get Jimmy

ORL trade: Jonathon Isaac, Gary Harris, Cole Anthony
ORL get: Bradley Beal, Keshad Johnson, '31 1st (via Phoenix)
Reason - They cash in some of their depth for a dynamic scoring guard next to their All Star duo of Paolo/Franz, while retaining enough depth to still field a great team (Black replaces Anthony, KCP moves onto the bench to replace Harris' minutes, they've still got the depth to cover Isaac).

MIN trade: Julius Randle
MIN get: Jonathon Isaac, Gary Harris
Reason - Swap Randle for a more defensive minded guy in Isaac, who's got a great extension (25mil this season then roughly 15mil for the next 4). Harris is salary filler with a team option for next season.


There's probably value tweaks that need to be done but I think it's a good framework to work off, assuming Beal approves a trade to Orlando (which I assume he would, since they're an up and coming team and they're not far from Miami).

[Norseman79]

Quick one

MN in: Murray and Jovic
Out: Randle

Miami in: Ingram and Randle
Out: Butler, Robinson and Jovic

NO in: Gafford, Thompson, Williams, Powell, Robinson, draft picks
Out: Ingram and Murray

Mavs in: Butler
Out: Gafford, Thompson, Williams, Powell

[Guidus88]

Quick one

MN in: Murray and Jovic
Out: Randle

Miami in: Ingram and Randle
Out: Butler, Robinson and Jovic

NO in: Gafford, Thompson, Williams, Powell, Robinson, draft picks
Out: Ingram and Murray

Mavs in: Butler
Out: Gafford, Thompson, Williams, Powell

Make it happen!

[Klomp]

Rough outline of an idea

CHI: LaVine, Ball, Smith, Horton-Tucker for Beal, Randle
MIA: Butler, Richardson for LaVine, Horton-Tucker
MIN: Randle for Ball, Smith, Richardson
PHX: Beal for Butler

[younggunsmn]

Has NAW been playing well? I know he started well, but I cannot think of a good performance in the last few weeks, can you?

He's had a very rough January.

Yeah, games like today remind me how streaky shooter he is. When he is red hot from 3pt he is worth full MLE, when he is not, he is a 7-8mil player.

During the offseason I said NAW was a taxpayer MLE level player and I still stand by that assessment.
6-7 mil per tops.

[winforlose]

He's had a very rough January.

Yeah, games like today remind me how streaky shooter he is. When he is red hot from 3pt he is worth full MLE, when he is not, he is a 7-8mil player.

During the offseason I said NAW was a taxpayer MLE level player and I still stand by that assessment.
6-7 mil per tops.

NAW started great, then January happened and he forgot that he is a professional basketball player. Personally I think he thinks this a rec league at the local Y.

[cmoss84]

Chi out: Lavine, Ball
Chi in: Butler, Robinson, Burks

Mia out: Butler, Robinson, Ware, Jovic, Burks
Mia in: Lavine, Randle

MN out: Randle
MN in: Ball, Ware, Jovic