Trade Talk (Part 17): Early Offseason Planning

[BlacJacMac]

Cap question, when do we get the trade exemption from the NAW S&T? In theory we could trade Dilly for White straight up if White is traded into our exemption. Then we would need to make a follow up trade by the deadline to reduce cost to duck the 2nd apron. Whether that be DDV or Randle, it would be creative way to get extra value. The question is do the Bulls value Dilly enough to give up White?

Question for me is why we'd want White when there's a lot of overlap with DDV with their strengths and weaknesses. If people don't want to play DDV at PG because his handle is too loose and he's a 3 point gunner and not a natural playmaker...that just described Coby White to a T. And you're dropping from somebody in the 75th percentile on defense to somebody in the 8th percentile. And Donte is a better 3 point shooter in most scenarios.

Dead on.

Not to mention White's next contract is going to rocket past what DDV makes.

[minimus]

We are running out of ideas, guys! I guess it is time for me to go in vacation

[KGdaBom]

I'm telling you all Dilly will get the job done. We will look back and laugh about all this talk a year from now. Go Wolves.

[winforlose]

Cap question, when do we get the trade exemption from the NAW S&T? In theory we could trade Dilly for White straight up if White is traded into our exemption. Then we would need to make a follow up trade by the deadline to reduce cost to duck the 2nd apron. Whether that be DDV or Randle, it would be creative way to get extra value. The question is do the Bulls value Dilly enough to give up White?

Question for me is why we'd want White when there's a lot of overlap with DDV with their strengths and weaknesses. If people don't want to play DDV at PG because his handle is too loose and he's a 3 point gunner and not a natural playmaker...that just described Coby White to a T. And you're dropping from somebody in the 75th percentile on defense to somebody in the 8th percentile. And Donte is a better 3 point shooter in most scenarios.

The theory is that White has been on a lot of bad teams and been more influenced by the tank than DDV. Also remember that White has played more PG than DDV and has shown better passing than DDV. Overall the hope would be that White would fit better and be able to grow with Ant. White is 25 and DDV is 28, which means DDV is prime and White is pre prime (more room to grow.) All of that being true, it is hard to know if White can improve his defense to adjust to a defensive oriented team.

[BlacJacMac]

Cap question, when do we get the trade exemption from the NAW S&T? In theory we could trade Dilly for White straight up if White is traded into our exemption. Then we would need to make a follow up trade by the deadline to reduce cost to duck the 2nd apron. Whether that be DDV or Randle, it would be creative way to get extra value. The question is do the Bulls value Dilly enough to give up White?

Question for me is why we'd want White when there's a lot of overlap with DDV with their strengths and weaknesses. If people don't want to play DDV at PG because his handle is too loose and he's a 3 point gunner and not a natural playmaker...that just described Coby White to a T. And you're dropping from somebody in the 75th percentile on defense to somebody in the 8th percentile. And Donte is a better 3 point shooter in most scenarios.

The theory is that White has been on a lot of bad teams and been more influenced by the tank than DDV. Also remember that White has played more PG than DDV and has shown better passing than DDV. Overall the hope would be that White would fit better and be able to grow with Ant. White is 25 and DDV is 28, which means DDV is prime and White is pre prime (more room to grow.) All of that being true, it is hard to know if White can improve his defense to adjust to a defensive oriented team.

White has a long way to go to be a PG. His handle is not just loose, but its very high. And his speed only "works" in a straight line. He has no wiggle and limited lateral quickness. He's also a very rudimentary passer. He's not going to hit shooters in their "pocket", he's not going to throw guys open, he's not going to read the floor and see plays before they happen. He has less PG skills than Ant by a mile. DDV is not a bad comp.

He's a small SG that has had to develop rudimentary PG skills because of his height and lack of length.

And he hasn't been on bad teams so much as mediocre ones. The Bulls are exactly .500 over the past 4 years with their worst seasons being 2 games under .500. They're pretty well coached and they did make the Playoffs in White's 3rd season.

[Klomp]

Does anyone remember reports from before the 2023 draft that indicated Tim Connelly had a lot of interest in prospect Anthony Black?

Is this leading somewhere, my good man?

Tim Connelly likes who he likes. If this interest was real, I wonder if they would circle back to him. Could easily play backcourt minutes next to either Ant or Rob. He doesn't turn 22 until January, so he would be the fourth-youngest player in our organization after Rob and the two rookie big men.

Donte DiVincenzo ($11,990,000) for Anthony Black ($7,970,280) would be the basic trade concept.

I just wonder if Black has fallen out of favor there somewhat, adding Bane and Jones plus Suggs still there and drafting Richardson. Sure, you could question where DiVincenzo would slot in there as well, but they obviously have had a need for 3-point shooters to play off of Banchero and Wagner. DiVincenzo obviously has that, along with the toughness to play within a defensive culture like Orlando.

EDIT: I remember where the reported interest came from. Minnesota met with him at the NBA Draft Combine that year, despite only having second round pick No. 53 at the time.

[Slim Tubby]

Does anyone remember reports from before the 2023 draft that indicated Tim Connelly had a lot of interest in prospect Anthony Black?

Is this leading somewhere, my good man?

Tim Connelly likes who he likes. If this interest was real, I wonder if they would circle back to him. Could easily play backcourt minutes next to either Ant or Rob. He doesn't turn 22 until January, so he would be the fourth-youngest player in our organization after Rob and the two rookie big men.

Donte DiVincenzo ($11,990,000) for Anthony Black ($7,970,280) would be the basic trade concept.

I just wonder if Black has fallen out of favor there somewhat, adding Bane and Jones plus Suggs still there and drafting Richardson. Sure, you could question where DiVincenzo would slot in there as well, but they obviously have had a need for 3-point shooters to play off of Banchero and Wagner. DiVincenzo obviously has that, along with the toughness to play within a defensive culture like Orlando.

EDIT: I remember where the reported interest came from. Minnesota met with him at the NBA Draft Combine that year, despite only having second round pick No. 53 at the time.

Thanks...I was just curious if you had heard some rumblings about us showing interest in acquiring Black.

I'm a big fan of DDV but I'd make that trade in a heartbeat.

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[winforlose]

Question for me is why we'd want White when there's a lot of overlap with DDV with their strengths and weaknesses. If people don't want to play DDV at PG because his handle is too loose and he's a 3 point gunner and not a natural playmaker...that just described Coby White to a T. And you're dropping from somebody in the 75th percentile on defense to somebody in the 8th percentile. And Donte is a better 3 point shooter in most scenarios.

The theory is that White has been on a lot of bad teams and been more influenced by the tank than DDV. Also remember that White has played more PG than DDV and has shown better passing than DDV. Overall the hope would be that White would fit better and be able to grow with Ant. White is 25 and DDV is 28, which means DDV is prime and White is pre prime (more room to grow.) All of that being true, it is hard to know if White can improve his defense to adjust to a defensive oriented team.

White has a long way to go to be a PG. His handle is not just loose, but its very high. And his speed only "works" in a straight line. He has no wiggle and limited lateral quickness. He's also a very rudimentary passer. He's not going to hit shooters in their "pocket", he's not going to throw guys open, he's not going to read the floor and see plays before they happen. He has less PG skills than Ant by a mile. DDV is not a bad comp.

He's a small SG that has had to develop rudimentary PG skills because of his height and lack of length.

And he hasn't been on bad teams so much as mediocre ones. The Bulls are exactly .500 over the past 4 years with their worst seasons being 2 games under .500. They're pretty well coached and they did make the Playoffs in White's 3rd season.

He has been on .500 team in the weak and often injured east. That is not the same thing as being on a .500 team in the west. Moreover, those bulls teams never had dreams of contending. Maybe they figured they could survive the play in, but they were never truly built to contend. They had one year of hope regarding that, then people started getting hurt (Zach,) and that was the end of that.

You might be right about Coby. I don’t watch enough Bulls basketball to know. What little I do see of him (without league pass,) has impressed me, but I won’t challenge you on what I assume is a better informed opinion.

I don’t know who else is available, but I do know we have a massive roster imbalance, limited assets to correct it with, and a serious handicap in pursuing a chip without correcting it.

[BlacJacMac]

The theory is that White has been on a lot of bad teams and been more influenced by the tank than DDV. Also remember that White has played more PG than DDV and has shown better passing than DDV. Overall the hope would be that White would fit better and be able to grow with Ant. White is 25 and DDV is 28, which means DDV is prime and White is pre prime (more room to grow.) All of that being true, it is hard to know if White can improve his defense to adjust to a defensive oriented team.

White has a long way to go to be a PG. His handle is not just loose, but its very high. And his speed only "works" in a straight line. He has no wiggle and limited lateral quickness. He's also a very rudimentary passer. He's not going to hit shooters in their "pocket", he's not going to throw guys open, he's not going to read the floor and see plays before they happen. He has less PG skills than Ant by a mile. DDV is not a bad comp.

He's a small SG that has had to develop rudimentary PG skills because of his height and lack of length.

And he hasn't been on bad teams so much as mediocre ones. The Bulls are exactly .500 over the past 4 years with their worst seasons being 2 games under .500. They're pretty well coached and they did make the Playoffs in White's 3rd season.

He has been on .500 team in the weak and often injured east. That is not the same thing as being on a .500 team in the west. Moreover, those bulls teams never had dreams of contending. Maybe they figured they could survive the play in, but they were never truly built to contend. They had one year of hope regarding that, then people started getting hurt (Zach,) and that was the end of that.

You might be right about Coby. I don’t watch enough Bulls basketball to know. What little I do see of him (without league pass,) has impressed me, but I won’t challenge you on what I assume is a better informed opinion.

I don’t know who else is available, but I do know we have a massive roster imbalance, limited assets to correct it with, and a serious handicap in pursuing a chip without correcting it.

So now you've moved the goalposts from "bad teams" to "not a true contender"?

[winforlose]

White has a long way to go to be a PG. His handle is not just loose, but its very high. And his speed only "works" in a straight line. He has no wiggle and limited lateral quickness. He's also a very rudimentary passer. He's not going to hit shooters in their "pocket", he's not going to throw guys open, he's not going to read the floor and see plays before they happen. He has less PG skills than Ant by a mile. DDV is not a bad comp.

He's a small SG that has had to develop rudimentary PG skills because of his height and lack of length.

And he hasn't been on bad teams so much as mediocre ones. The Bulls are exactly .500 over the past 4 years with their worst seasons being 2 games under .500. They're pretty well coached and they did make the Playoffs in White's 3rd season.

He has been on .500 team in the weak and often injured east. That is not the same thing as being on a .500 team in the west. Moreover, those bulls teams never had dreams of contending. Maybe they figured they could survive the play in, but they were never truly built to contend. They had one year of hope regarding that, then people started getting hurt (Zach,) and that was the end of that.

You might be right about Coby. I don’t watch enough Bulls basketball to know. What little I do see of him (without league pass,) has impressed me, but I won’t challenge you on what I assume is a better informed opinion.

I don’t know who else is available, but I do know we have a massive roster imbalance, limited assets to correct it with, and a serious handicap in pursuing a chip without correcting it.

So now you've moved the goalposts from "bad teams" to "not a true contender"?

On the contrary. I am saying 41 wins is a bad team in the east. I am saying they never had the championship mindset of a good team. Best case they might hope to get a playoff series and a quick out. That is best case. I am talking about the motivation that comes from being on a good team that has the goal of contending and the motivation/culture that comes with it.

In theory bad defenders (KAT as an example,) defender better when the stakes are higher. Monte Morris was better at defense than expected when he joined us. The level of want to, and the pressure/culture related boost that comes with it. Maybe it doesn’t help, maybe it does. But either way, Coby has never felt it.

[Klomp]

Read on Twitter

[winforlose]

Read on Twitter

How do we get Fox on the Wolves?

[Klomp]

How do we get Fox on the Wolves?

It would most likely be Randle + _____.

The first apron would be a hurdle, due to the need to aggregate salaries. But I believe Randle + DiVincenzo + young guy would get it done.

[winforlose]

How do we get Fox on the Wolves?

It would most likely be Randle + _____.

The first apron would be a hurdle, due to the need to aggregate salaries. But I believe Randle + DiVincenzo + young guy would get it done.

I don’t know if the Spurs would do it, and I know Fox wanted to in San Antonio. If I recall correctly he said he would only extend there. We obviously would not deal for him without an extension and I don’t see him suddenly wanting to be here when he didn’t before.


https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/spurs-deaaron-fox-makes-explosive-comments-ahead-of-his-sacramento-return-kings-didnt-have-my-back/

Excerpt from above “ "There was no f---ing list," Fox said. "There was one team. I wanted to go to San Antonio. So, a lot of people are mad at me, saying I handcuffed the team by giving them a destination. Well, this is my career. If anybody else is in my position, you'd do the same thing. It's not my job to help build your team. I'm not about to just go where they want me to go. I wanted to have a destination."”

[BlacJacMac]

Read on Twitter

How do we get Fox on the Wolves?

We don't.

He's a poor shooter, a terrible defender and roughly a 2:1 assists:turnover guy.

That said, he's still a terrific scorer and has a justified rep for being huge in the clutch. But so much of his game is dependent on his speed and he's about to turn 28...

Fox is eligible for a four-year, $228 million extension that would keep him under contract for the next five seasons, including his last year of his current contract. At almost 28, we would be paying Fox through his age 32 season, when he'd be making $60 million.

[KATKlownFeet]

Cap question, when do we get the trade exemption from the NAW S&T? In theory we could trade Dilly for White straight up if White is traded into our exemption. Then we would need to make a follow up trade by the deadline to reduce cost to duck the 2nd apron. Whether that be DDV or Randle, it would be creative way to get extra value. The question is do the Bulls value Dilly enough to give up White?

Coby White is a bad basketball player. I don't want him free. His advanced stats show a very negative player. He can't defend a lick. If Wolves trade Dilly and DDV for Coby White, then I hope TC is run out of town.

[Devilzsidewalk]

Read on Twitter

How do we get Fox on the Wolves?

We don't.

He's a poor shooter, a terrible defender and roughly a 2:1 assists:turnover guy.

That said, he's still a terrific scorer and has a justified rep for being huge in the clutch. But so much of his game is dependent on his speed and he's about to turn 28...

Fox is eligible for a four-year, $228 million extension that would keep him under contract for the next five seasons, including his last year of his current contract. At almost 28, we would be paying Fox through his age 32 season, when he'd be making $60 million.

Fox seems like one of those guys where you develop a drastically different opinion of him when he's on your team. Like I always thought of him as a scoring point guard, but still a point guard. But I was talking to Kings fans that were adament that he's a shooting guard. So it's possible that we'd get him in here and realize that his net impact isn't that much different from what Randle brings - a scorer who gets assists off of kickouts and dumpoffs, but not really what you'd call a great playmaker.

[minimus]

How do we get Fox on the Wolves?

We don't.

He's a poor shooter, a terrible defender and roughly a 2:1 assists:turnover guy.

That said, he's still a terrific scorer and has a justified rep for being huge in the clutch. But so much of his game is dependent on his speed and he's about to turn 28...

Fox is eligible for a four-year, $228 million extension that would keep him under contract for the next five seasons, including his last year of his current contract. At almost 28, we would be paying Fox through his age 32 season, when he'd be making $60 million.

Fox seems like one of those guys where you develop a drastically different opinion of him when he's on your team. Like I always thought of him as a scoring point guard, but still a point guard. But I was talking to Kings fans that were adament that he's a shooting guard. So it's possible that we'd get him in here and realize that his net impact isn't that much different from what Randle brings - a scorer who gets assists off of kickouts and dumpoffs, but not really what you'd call a great playmaker.

Yeah, between Randle on on 100/3 contract and Fox on last year of contract worth 37 mil, I will choose Randle.

[Norseman79]

This kind of brings up an interesting question and I'm wondering what people's answers would be, what point guard in the league right now would be the equivalent to Julius Randle as far as trade value? Essentially speaking, who is his equivalent at the point guard position.

[Guidus88]

This kind of brings up an interesting question and I'm wondering what people's answers would be, what point guard in the league right now would be the equivalent to Julius Randle as far as trade value? Essentially speaking, who is his equivalent at the point guard position.

Derrick White

Similar age, salary, performace