**** MN Wolves (3-8) vs ATL Hawks (5-7) - 1:30pm CT NBATV - Game Thread ****

[Jedzz]

You know a player hater when he has one bad game in the last 7 games and you post something like this.

Is easy to see when a player is a stat padder.

And we are going to continue to lose while he's going put big numbers here and ....


Just my opinion.

I had to stop an cut off your opinion. Last thing I want to read is someone suggesting we need to get rid of one of the only three players that can actually shoot on this team. He's maybe the first Wolves shooter capable of stringing three good games together in the past decade. Just take a few seconds and entertain the thought that he's working as hard as he can to do whatever he can to help this team and for some reason you just think he's trying to stat pad. He prides himself on doing more, not less. Yeah, he's not perfect. Kick him out!

Hey don't worry, he's pretty much the only one making a case for having any trade value whatsoever so as usual the Wolves will likely trade him like they are typically forced to trade their decent players with decent contract values away.

Maybe you can trade him for Kyrie who prides himself on sitting out.

[Merc_Porto]

Hey don't worry, he's pretty much the only one making a case for having any trade value whatsoever so as usual the Wolves will likely trade him like they are typically forced to trade their decent players with decent contract values away.

I hope you're right

[moonpie]

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Er...you know there are other players Okogie could guard like DeAndre Hunter?

[Calinks]

You know a player hater when he has one bad game in the last 7 games and you post something like this.

Is easy to see when a player is a stat padder.

And we are going to continue to lose while he's going put big numbers here and there and that's why i said... When he's bad, he's really bad.

When he's not that bad, he's a stat padder. But he's not a player that helps winning games.

At this point we really should try to increase his trade value and trade him later in february.
After that, start Edwards and see what he's made of it...

Just my opinion.

I think its really unfair to label Beasley a stat padder. He's a shooter that's being asked to step it up this season and for the most part he has. He isn't a max contract superstar phoning it in. On this team we need him to take and make big shots, maybe he could have some better shot selection at times but his has so much responsibility in this role, basically being one of three guys who can shoot, he needs to take a lot of shots. It isn't being selfish or a bad teammate, he's trying to carry this poor implemented offense on his back. He has done it several games but tonight he came up short, It is going to happen.

Now if this team had a lot of other options on offense, and Beasley was hogging all the shot and laying bricks, then you would have a point. Right now it just seems really damn critical, especially when you look at the big picture of the team as a whole and his role

[Jedzz]

Read on Twitter

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Er...you know there are other players Okogie could guard like DeAndre Hunter?

exactly. So Trae was in foul trouble and had to sit so this team sits Okogie because they only wanted him on Trae this day?

I think Ryan should be more like Bill Belichick in post game question sessions. Just grumble man. Nobody wants to hear him jack up an answer like that anyway.

[Jedzz]

I just noticed that Huerter played 41 minutes, shot 88% from 2 and 38% from 3, and I bet he felt like it was just a practice session.

[Merc_Porto]

You know a player hater when he has one bad game in the last 7 games and you post something like this.

Is easy to see when a player is a stat padder.

And we are going to continue to lose while he's going put big numbers here and there and that's why i said... When he's bad, he's really bad.

When he's not that bad, he's a stat padder. But he's not a player that helps winning games.

At this point we really should try to increase his trade value and trade him later in february.
After that, start Edwards and see what he's made of it...

Just my opinion.

I think its really unfair to label Beasley a stat padder. He's a shooter that's being asked to step it up this season and for the most part he has. He isn't a max contract superstar phoning it in. On this team we need him to take and make big shots, maybe he could have some better shot selection at times but his has so much responsibility in this role, basically being one of three guys who can shoot, he needs to take a lot of shots. It isn't being selfish or a bad teammate, he's trying to carry this poor implemented offense on his back. He has done it several games but tonight he came up short, It is going to happen.

Now if this team had a lot of other options on offense, and Beasley was hogging all the shot and laying bricks, then you would have a point. Right now it just seems really damn critical, especially when you look at the big picture of the team as a whole and his role

Is all about the big picture here. What are we doing with the number one overral pick in the bench while being the worst team in the league?

We have the rookie on a leash for no reason at this point because we are trying to make Beasley a 3rd option on this team. And that's just wrong.

Beasley is going to be good as a shooter, a great scorer, maybe coming of the bench in the future. But that's it.

Dude is Joe Harris with worst defense. The difference is that we don't have KD, Kyrie or even Harden

That's why i think we are maybe trying to increase his trade value.

Because let's be serious once again and please don't come with the argument of how young they are or the fact they need time to gel or need a different offense. Come on man. This is a bunch of scrubs that we are trying to make of them some kind of stars.

Do i need to predict once again how bad this going to end up if someone thinks we are winning with Dlo-Beasley as your backcourt ?

Just give the rookie a lot of minutes, unleash him.

[Jedzz]

Is easy to see when a player is a stat padder.

And we are going to continue to lose while he's going put big numbers here and there and that's why i said... When he's bad, he's really bad.

When he's not that bad, he's a stat padder. But he's not a player that helps winning games.

At this point we really should try to increase his trade value and trade him later in february.
After that, start Edwards and see what he's made of it...

Just my opinion.

I think its really unfair to label Beasley a stat padder. He's a shooter that's being asked to step it up this season and for the most part he has. He isn't a max contract superstar phoning it in. On this team we need him to take and make big shots, maybe he could have some better shot selection at times but his has so much responsibility in this role, basically being one of three guys who can shoot, he needs to take a lot of shots. It isn't being selfish or a bad teammate, he's trying to carry this poor implemented offense on his back. He has done it several games but tonight he came up short, It is going to happen.

Now if this team had a lot of other options on offense, and Beasley was hogging all the shot and laying bricks, then you would have a point. Right now it just seems really damn critical, especially when you look at the big picture of the team as a whole and his role

Is all about the big picture here. What are we doing with the number one overral pick in the bench while being the worst team in the league?

We have the rookie on a leash for no reason at this point because we are trying to make Beasley a 3rd option on this team. And that's just wrong.

Beasley is going to be good as a shooter, a great scorer, maybe coming of the bench in the future. But that's it.

Dude is Joe Harris with worst defense. The difference is that we don't have KD, Kyrie or even Harden

That's why i think we are maybe trying to increase his trade value.

Because let's be serious once again and please don't come with the argument of how young they are or the fact they need time to gel or need a different offense. Come on man. This is a bunch of scrubs that we are trying to make of them some kind of stars.

Do i need to predict once again how bad this going to end up if someone thinks we are winning with Dlo-Beasley as your backcourt ?

Just give the rookie a lot of minutes, unleash him.

The point is Edwards was getting worse very quickly and falling back into a lot of bad habits really quickly with all the minutes he was getting at first. His shot and shot selection are already hot garbage from it. Simply playing guys like this doesn't necessarily do him any good and could completely evaporate his confidence and trade value. Frankly they may have already done it to him the way they started him off. I said it prior, take a few seconds and entertain the option that you are looking at this all backwards.

The roster is contructed poorly as a whole and that's why they are going to lose a lot no matter who's playing shooting guard. You say you want to see the Rookie more, but you aren't seeing the bigger picture for that Rookie. Basically the only thing you are going to get from Edwards if he plays 35 minutes is the Georgia Bulldog Edwards that actually Hoggs the ball all game long and calls his own number 25 times at 25-29% most games and in the process we will have Dlo, Rubio, Beasley, Culver, JMac and other guards that basicaly only have a stand around and watch role. He might kick out a pass two or three times a game. This is exactly what you are claiming Beasley is doing now except he's not. But you will get that if Edwards is handed the season keys like you want and Edwards will end up the exact same next season.

[Merc_Porto]

I think its really unfair to label Beasley a stat padder. He's a shooter that's being asked to step it up this season and for the most part he has. He isn't a max contract superstar phoning it in. On this team we need him to take and make big shots, maybe he could have some better shot selection at times but his has so much responsibility in this role, basically being one of three guys who can shoot, he needs to take a lot of shots. It isn't being selfish or a bad teammate, he's trying to carry this poor implemented offense on his back. He has done it several games but tonight he came up short, It is going to happen.

Now if this team had a lot of other options on offense, and Beasley was hogging all the shot and laying bricks, then you would have a point. Right now it just seems really damn critical, especially when you look at the big picture of the team as a whole and his role

Is all about the big picture here. What are we doing with the number one overral pick in the bench while being the worst team in the league?

We have the rookie on a leash for no reason at this point because we are trying to make Beasley a 3rd option on this team. And that's just wrong.

Beasley is going to be good as a shooter, a great scorer, maybe coming of the bench in the future. But that's it.

Dude is Joe Harris with worst defense. The difference is that we don't have KD, Kyrie or even Harden

That's why i think we are maybe trying to increase his trade value.

Because let's be serious once again and please don't come with the argument of how young they are or the fact they need time to gel or need a different offense. Come on man. This is a bunch of scrubs that we are trying to make of them some kind of stars.

Do i need to predict once again how bad this going to end up if someone thinks we are winning with Dlo-Beasley as your backcourt ?

Just give the rookie a lot of minutes, unleash him.

The point is Edwards was getting worse very quickly and falling back into a lot of bad habits really quickly with all the minutes he was getting at first. His shot and shot selection are already hot garbage from it. Simply playing guys like this doesn't necessarily do him any good and could completely evaporate his confidence and trade value. Frankly they may have already done it to him the way they started him off. I said it prior, take a few seconds and entertain the option that you are looking at this all backwards.

The roster is contructed poorly as a whole and that's why they are going to lose a lot no matter who's playing shooting guard. You say you want to see the Rookie more, but you aren't seeing the bigger picture for that Rookie. Basically the only thing you are going to get from Edwards if he plays 35 minutes is the Georgia Bulldog Edwards that actually Hoggs the ball all game long and calls his own number 23 times from any which way that's loose and in the process we will have Dlo, Rubio, Beasley, Culver, JMac and other guards that basicaly only have a stand around and watch role. He might kick out a pass two or three times a game. This is exactly what you are claiming Beasley is doing now except he's not. But you will get that if Edwards is handed the season keys.

The difference is that i know what we have in Beasley and he's not taking us anywhere if he's a big part of this roster...

I don't know with Edwards thought.

And since we are really bad. Unleash the rookie.

[Merc_Porto]

And btw, call me hater or whatever and since we have a bunch of people saying they can't stand with Ricky missing layups i ask...

How many more time since the begining of the season we have to see Beasley missing layups to calling him out as well on that?

[Jedzz]

The difference is that i know what we have in Beasley and he's not taking us anywhere if he's a big part of this roster...

I don't know with Edwards thought.

And since we are really bad. Unleash the rookie.

Well in my opinion you don't know what you are talking about right now on this.

Beasley isn't getting paid like he's James Harden, Durant, Kyrie, Lillard, lebron, Towns, Dlo, any of these guys or the 15 or 20 others making more on larger roles.

He's not even making as much as Joe Harris got this offseason. He's a good starter at shooting guard, he doesn't have to "take us anywhere" himself. He's capable of over 20-25 pts a game as one of your starters and we didn't have to spend a top draft pick to find that and we didn't have to max him to get that. This team needs 5 starters, two of which are Maxed right now. So we have 3.

The teams problem is they only have 3 starters (only two today) and they have a bunch of semi useless young kids as depth each taking turns making young kid mistakes all game long.

You aren't seeing the big picture on Edwards. Actually read my post you quoted. They need Edwards to work on improving himself, not feeding you entertainment right now. Otherwise he's going to suck just as badly next year as he actually does right now. Remember Wiggins?

It doesn't matter if you can't see it yet, but Edwards sucks as a team player right now. From lessor bench minutes he can work on that and learn to play on a team. Maybe next year he will be more ready. It would be different if he actually was James Harden or could shoot well right now but he can't consistently do so. And so if the team let him jack up 20-25 shots a games it just won't do anything except teach him more bad habits doing so as he'll have one great game between every 5 bad ones that feeds his bad habits and ego on the wrong things further.

[Merc_Porto]

The difference is that i know what we have in Beasley and he's not taking us anywhere if he's a big part of this roster...

I don't know with Edwards thought.

And since we are really bad. Unleash the rookie.

Well in my opinion you don't know what you are talking about right now on this.

Beasley isn't getting paid like he's James Harden, Durant, Kyrie, Lillard, lebron, Towns, Dlo, any of these guys or the 15 or 20 others making more on larger roles.

He's not even making as much as Joe Harris got this offseason. He's a good starter at shooting guard, he doesn't have to "take us anywhere" himself. He's capable of over 20-25 pts a game as one of your starters and we didn't have to spend a top draft pick to find that and we didn't have to max him to get that. This team needs 5 starters, two of which are Maxed right now. So we have 3.

The teams problem is they only have 3 starters (only two today) and they have a bunch of semi useless young kids as depth each taking turns making young kid mistakes all game long.

You aren't seeing the big picture on Edwards. Actually read my post you quoted. They need Edwards to work on improving himself, not feeding you entertainment right now. Otherwise he's going to suck just as badly next year as he actually does right now. Remember Wiggins?

It doesn't matter if you can't see it yet, but Edwards sucks as a team player right now. From lessor bench minutes he can work on that and learn to play on a team. Maybe next year he will be more ready. It would be different if he actually was James Harden or could shoot well right now but he can't consistently do so. And so if the team let him jack up 20-25 shots a games it just won't do anything except teach him more bad habits doing so as he'll have one great game between every 5 bad ones that feeds his bad habits and ego on the wrong things further.

Yes, i remember Wiggins very well. And Wiggins value was through the roof in his first 3 years in the league. His value was so high that him alone would got us Jimmy Butler without any other assets if we wanted. But then he never improved from that.

But since you brough Wiggins. Let me bring Donovan Mitchell... He was really bad in the first half of the season in his rookie season. There was games where he had low efficience on a high volume of shots. The 20-25 shots you talk about... And that's the whole point. Let him be a rookie because at some point you have to decide if you're going to stick with Beasley or finnaly go for Edwards. Like i said... I know what Beasley is capable of doing, we all know. He's a role player. I don't know what Edwards is capable of doing if we give him freedom and a starting role.

Again, we are bad. We're not a good team. And we are a bad team with Beasley in the starting lineup with a 'star role'. And that is not good moving forward.

As for Joe Harris... Yes, Harris is making more money. He's older and has a specific role in a team with KD, Kyrie and now Harden. He's a role player. Like Beasley should be... Beasley is going to be able to score 20-25 in any bad team in this league, that's for sure.

Beasley is not going to score 20-25 points per game on a winning team because he's not that good to have that kind of role. That's a huge difference...

[Jedzz]

Believe it or not mercgold3, but someone like Trae Young is now in his third season with Hawks and he's been struggling to shoot this year.

Hawks were 29-53 his rookie season as they let him jack up 16 shots/g at 32-33% 3s and 48% 2s, for 19pts a game.
Year 2 they were 20-47 and Trae was jacking up 21 shots/g at 36% 3s and 50% 2s, for 19pts a game for 29pts a game.

So he started out as a rookie shooting better percentages than Edwards but his team lost their tails.
He followed that up shooting signifcantly better on much higher attempts and guess what, his team still lost their tails.
Now in his 3rd season, they are still on a losing record to start the year, and his percentages are all down and his attempts have dropped a little. 17 shots/g at 26% 3s and 45% 2s for 23ppg, his worst percentages yet.

So you want to start Edwards in place of Beasley as a rookie now because you just "don't know yet" and want to see it. But I can tell you what his shooting has been so far. 13 shots/g at 27% 3s and 46% 2s for 12.5 ppg. Just what we saw in college really aside from the few "hot" games that all his hype was built on. What we want is for him to learn to shoot at that "hot" level and do so by learning to take more open shots, pass more when it's not a good time, no how to play when he doesn't have the ball so he can get those chances to shoot open shots or be in position to take advantage of small crack openings for lanes. Or we could just start him and allow him to take 20 shots/g right now at 35 minutes like you want. Where we will get what I've been telling you we will get. He'll make 28-30% (if he's lucky) or FIVE 3s, and make FIVE 2s (46%) for 20-21 ppg. But that will be the best we get for the next three years because he will likely learn to do nothing else. And it might just turn out like Trae at any moment, where the percentage even drops in year three. But Trae dropping from 32% and 36% down to 26% is bad enough. Imagine dropping that far from Edwards who is starting out at 27-28%? Do you like the sound of 18%> Yeah it's possible.

Here are some of Edwards 3pt shooting games this season already.
1-5(20%), 1-9(11%), 2-8(25%), 1-7(14%), 3-10 (30%), 1-4(25%), 0-2(0%) twice

Edwards highest minute game was 31 minutes against Portland for a career high 26pts. But he came away -15 somehow and the team was blown out 135-117. He had one assist and 4 turnovers. All he did is jack the ball because it was that rare hot shooting game for him. He learned nothing from it about being a better NBA player and his percentage on 3s that game 30%(3-10). Not good enough if that's his hot shooting. But that's what you want to see all season and ditch his future for right?

You also act like he hasn't been playing. 8 of 12 games he's had over 25 minutes. 10 of 12 games are over 22 minutes. Two games of 30up. He's playing a lot and he's very much been a part of why this team has been losing so much this season. Not only should he not replace Beasley like you suggest, but he's not a shooting guard right now. They only thing he reallly knows right now is playing onball point possessions so he blows up the rest of the roster when he plays too much.

I love typing out this reality for you, but I still have to quit at some point and you need to see it for what it is.

[Jedzz]

Yes, i remember Wiggins very well. And Wiggins value was through the roof in his first 3 years in the league. His value was so high that him alone would got us Jimmy Butler without any other assets if we wanted. But then he never improved from that.

Actually no, you are revising history incorrectly there. The only people that were so high on Wiggins 3 years in were the most foolish of the fanbase completely sold by then by the team marketing putting his face on everything and the team starting him for 35 minutes of every game. His value to YOU was through the roof. His actual value didn't allow Thibs to attach Dunn to him in order to get Butler, so Thibs had to wait until the following season and send LaVine plus Dunn to get Butler.

You see, I don't want to follow that trap again at all. No way. Because as soon as Edwards starts every game and takes over point duties and jacks 20-25 shots every game you and others like you will again be fooled and will forever tell us how he can never be traded, how he is the future we build it all around. Just. Like. You. Did. With. Wiggins. And just like your thought patterns are right now, asking for it all over again even though I've shown you who he actually is.

Two to three years in of him starting from now until then the rest of the league won't want him for anything you are asking for. It will be Wiggins all over again. They must teach him the game of basketball first to avoid it this time. They might, MIGHT, get a team to buy on him now while everything is still early and you haven't fully trashed all value by having him jack up 15-25% 3s for 70 games yet. But it's possible they are already stuck with the job of teaching this player how to better play ball. That's the risk you take when you draft the hype or drafting in general. It's on you to develop them right. Not just sell tickets and more hype today.

[Merc_Porto]

Yes, i remember Wiggins very well. And Wiggins value was through the roof in his first 3 years in the league. His value was so high that him alone would got us Jimmy Butler without any other assets if we wanted. But then he never improved from that.

Actually no, you are revising history incorrectly there. The only people that were so high on Wiggins 3 years in were the most foolish of the fanbase completely sold by then by the team marketing putting his face on everything and the team starting him for 35 minutes of every game. His value to YOU was through the roof. His actual value didn't allow Thibs to attach Dunn to him in order to get Butler, so Thibs had to wait until the following season and send LaVine plus Dunn to get Butler.

That's just ridiculous.

You really don't know what you're talking about here.

Read on Twitter

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp/nba/2016/06/15/jimmy-butler-trade-bulls-timberwolves-andrew-wiggins

[Jedzz]

Yes, i remember Wiggins very well. And Wiggins value was through the roof in his first 3 years in the league. His value was so high that him alone would got us Jimmy Butler without any other assets if we wanted. But then he never improved from that.

Actually no, you are revising history incorrectly there. The only people that were so high on Wiggins 3 years in were the most foolish of the fanbase completely sold by then by the team marketing putting his face on everything and the team starting him for 35 minutes of every game. His value to YOU was through the roof. His actual value didn't allow Thibs to attach Dunn to him in order to get Butler, so Thibs had to wait until the following season and send LaVine plus Dunn to get Butler.

That's just ridiculous.

You really don't know what you're talking about here.

Read on Twitter

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp/nba/2016/06/15/jimmy-butler-trade-bulls-timberwolves-andrew-wiggins

I'm not reading that or clicking that. Don't care what it says. I live through it painfully day by day. As I've already posted, there were fools during that time fully locked into Wiggins but there were voices of reason trying to stop you fools.

[Merc_Porto]

Jedzz we are the worst team in the league and you sound like we are one of the best.

All of this because i'm saying we should start Edwards, the number one overall pick and see what he can do instead of Beasley which is a cleary role player. Nothing more.

Don't tell me that is a surprise that he's scoring 20ppg on a bad team lol

There's nothing to lose at this point.
Unless is to rise his trade value. That way i would understand.

[Jedzz]

Jedzz we are the worst team in the league and you sound like we are one of the best.

Uh, yeah is this you trying to sell more revisionist history? We could take a poll and most people would choose to hang me over shoot me over letting me continue because of my negativity this season. So this might be another example where you just aren't seeing things correctly.

[Merc_Porto]

Jedzz we are the worst team in the league and you sound like we are one of the best.

Uh, yeah is this you trying to sell more revisionist history? We could take a poll and most people would choose to hang me over shoot me over letting me continue because of my negativity this season. So this might be another example where you just aren't seeing things correctly.

This is what is surprising. You actually are one of the few aware of the reality of this team and how poor we are constructed since day one. At least that.

But here we are having this discussion because of Beasley. We really are in a deep hole if a player like this has this kind of importance to you or anyone. Dude is a role player. And surprise surprise... A 20ppg scorer on a bad team.

[Jedzz]

Jedzz we are the worst team in the league and you sound like we are one of the best.

Uh, yeah is this you trying to sell more revisionist history? We could take a poll and most people would choose to hang me over shoot me over letting me continue because of my negativity this season. So this might be another example where you just aren't seeing things correctly.

This is what is surprising. You actually are one of the few aware of the reality of this team and how poor we are constructed since day one. At least that.

But here we are having this discussion because of Beasley. We really are in a deep hole if a player like this has this kind of importance to you or anyone. Dude is a role player. And surprise surprise... A 20ppg scorer on a bad team.

I give up