Trade Talk (Part Six)

[winforlose]

So let me ask the question (rather than offering a suggestion) does Rubio have any trade value? How about Okogie, Layman, Juancho, or Vando? These five are our trade chips and honestly I am curious what people think of their worth.

[shrink]

So let me ask the question (rather than offering a suggestion) does Rubio have any trade value? How about Okogie, Layman, Juancho, or Vando? These five are our trade chips and honestly I am curious what people think of their worth.

I think he is roughly worth an expiring, which is roughly what we traded him for. Maybe you can get a second as well.

Rubio has been bad here, but he has been in the league for a while, and people and GM’s know he is. He was pretty good the last two seasons, and he may have helped Donovan Mitchell and Devin Booker take leaps forward. Without injuries, his current bad stats on the Wolves are more likely to be blamed on the Wolves than on Rubio, and I would agree with that assessment.

To me, Rubio is a startable NBA PG. if your team doesn’t need a shooter or a PG that can finish, Rubio can be very helpful for a playoff team. His passing improves other players FG%, so generally his team-based analytics are very good. PG is a crowded position in the NBA right now, and many teams would start young players they drafted in the lottery in front of Rubio. However, if one of the 20+ teams that are hoping for the playoffs team loses their starter, Rubio could be useful. The hardest part of Rubio’s contract is that it’s got another year, but since so much talent extended early, 2021 free agency doesn’t look as enticing, so this isn’t as big a negative as it was when we traded for him.

Overall, I think he’s tradable, and since we seem committed to the DLo train, he probably has more value on another team. We should keep our ears open for those possibilities.

[Dewey]

So let me ask the question (rather than offering a suggestion) does Rubio have any trade value? How about Okogie, Layman, Juancho, or Vando? These five are our trade chips and honestly I am curious what people think of their worth.

Bigger question ... what are we doing with McLaughlin? I have a problem moving Rubio right now if we are not committed to giving McL a cheap/fair deal.

Back to Rubio ... I'm struggling with him off the bench unless we have shooters round him - thats the skinny. Like Okogie, we don't want him shooting alot. Starting him and DLo both leaves either the Rifleman or the ANT coming off the bench. I would like to try Rubio + Nowell/Layman/Juancho/Reid. Leave JC and JV rotating in with DLo/Beas/ANT/McD/KAT

So anyway ... Rubio can be moved, but are we OK with McL as the only backup behind the DLo? I'd lke to keep Rubio and McL both through the season just cause we gotta have 3 pg's IMO. I prefer not to have Culver or ANT playing PG down the stretch when DLo is out with a sore thumb...

[Norseman79]

I don't know... part of me just wants a good stretch of games seeing guys play their actual positions and in legit rotations with competent coaching.

As I said in the positivity thread, I really think it's worth giving Ant and Beas some run as the starting backcourt, if for no other reason than to try to gauge Edwards ability to create for others. This is where I just really see DLo as a bad fit, he isn't much of a threat to drive when he has the ball and surrounding him with spot up shooters really isn't going to work.

Let's just try this for a few games...

Ant, JMac/Rubio
Beas, Nowell
MacDaniels, Rubio/Culver (I love JMacs energy, but Ricky has been playing better and hard to not play him. Letting him run 2nd like from SF position gives him freedom to create for others as well as spot up with JMac. If JMac or Rubio don't play well, it is Culver's chance, Okoge has had his).
Vanderbilt, Juancho
Towns, Reid

This idea also means getting starters 30+ minutes a game instead of trying to balance minutes out.

[shrink]

Here’s a recent thread on the Trade Board about Blake Griffin, for those interested,

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2052795&view=unread#unread

I am curious why his numbers are so down. I don't follow the pistons enough. is because of grant getting time and touches? injuries? just plan sucking? combo? feel like there should be a decent fit where his numbers could get better. maybe boston? they need a change. solidifying brown/tatum at the 2/3 would be good. Blake might really benefit from the celtic culture/environment.

He is very slow nowadays, he lost all his athleticism due to his injuries, but I think he also lost his motivation. Whenever he wants to win badly, he will try hard and get decent numbers, but most of the times he seems uninterested and he plays absoluttely no defense.

He doesn't fit Detroit's new culture, we're building around athletic guys who can shoot and play defense like Josh Jackson/Saddiq Bey and Jerami Grant, Blake is only taking minutes from those guys at this point.

I think the most logic would be a buyout, but I could see Weaver attaching Sekou and/or Svi and try to move Blake for expirings at this point, neither Sekou or Svi are his guys, so I don't expect them to be on the roster next season.

[winforlose]

So let me ask the question (rather than offering a suggestion) does Rubio have any trade value? How about Okogie, Layman, Juancho, or Vando? These five are our trade chips and honestly I am curious what people think of their worth.

Bigger question ... what are we doing with McLaughlin? I have a problem moving Rubio right now if we are not committed to giving McL a cheap/fair deal.

Back to Rubio ... I'm struggling with him off the bench unless we have shooters round him - thats the skinny. Like Okogie, we don't want him shooting alot. Starting him and DLo both leaves either the Rifleman or the ANT coming off the bench. I would like to try Rubio + Nowell/Layman/Juancho/Reid. Leave JC and JV rotating in with DLo/Beas/ANT/McD/KAT

So anyway ... Rubio can be moved, but are we OK with McL as the only backup behind the DLo? I'd lke to keep Rubio and McL both through the season just cause we gotta have 3 pg's IMO. I prefer not to have Culver or ANT playing PG down the stretch when DLo is out with a sore thumb...

So there are three factors to consider in the JMAC conversation. 1. How does JMAC feel about the wolves? We refused to meet his conditions on a main roster contract and he ended up a two way making a fraction of what he feels he is worth. 2. How much is he actually worth in the open market. I don’t see the revenues from the empty arena repairing the cap. This means less money to fill rosters and JMACs value in the open market will likely be depressed. 3. Is there someone better either in the second round or in FA to fill the backup spot. Personally I doubt JMAC is a long term backup PG for us because his game is not that good. He makes a great 3rd string though.

[shrink]

So let me ask the question (rather than offering a suggestion) does Rubio have any trade value? How about Okogie, Layman, Juancho, or Vando? These five are our trade chips and honestly I am curious what people think of their worth.

Bigger question ... what are we doing with McLaughlin? I have a problem moving Rubio right now if we are not committed to giving McL a cheap/fair deal.

Back to Rubio ... I'm struggling with him off the bench unless we have shooters round him - thats the skinny. Like Okogie, we don't want him shooting alot. Starting him and DLo both leaves either the Rifleman or the ANT coming off the bench. I would like to try Rubio + Nowell/Layman/Juancho/Reid. Leave JC and JV rotating in with DLo/Beas/ANT/McD/KAT

So anyway ... Rubio can be moved, but are we OK with McL as the only backup behind the DLo? I'd lke to keep Rubio and McL both through the season just cause we gotta have 3 pg's IMO. I prefer not to have Culver or ANT playing PG down the stretch when DLo is out with a sore thumb...

Good post.

I don’t have any problem seeing McLaughlin an our back up PG, and that makes it easier for me to consider a trade of Rubio (or DLo, though that’s highly unlikely). McLaughlin has played well whenever he has gotten minutes, it should not be difficult to convert his deal into a regular contract. This is the goal of two-way players, and they don’t have a lot of leverage. Obviously, I think he’s earned it.

I wouldn’t worry about a third string PG, because there are plenty of guys outside of the nba right now that would like a way back in. I’m not going to check them all and see if they are available, but I think Shabazz Napier, Jeremy Lin, Yogi Farrell .. maybe Mudiaye too .. didn’t end up with nba jobs, and any of them could be an emergency back up PG we could get for cheap.

[Dewey]

So let me ask the question (rather than offering a suggestion) does Rubio have any trade value? How about Okogie, Layman, Juancho, or Vando? These five are our trade chips and honestly I am curious what people think of their worth.

Bigger question ... what are we doing with McLaughlin? I have a problem moving Rubio right now if we are not committed to giving McL a cheap/fair deal.

Back to Rubio ... I'm struggling with him off the bench unless we have shooters round him - thats the skinny. Like Okogie, we don't want him shooting alot. Starting him and DLo both leaves either the Rifleman or the ANT coming off the bench. I would like to try Rubio + Nowell/Layman/Juancho/Reid. Leave JC and JV rotating in with DLo/Beas/ANT/McD/KAT

So anyway ... Rubio can be moved, but are we OK with McL as the only backup behind the DLo? I'd lke to keep Rubio and McL both through the season just cause we gotta have 3 pg's IMO. I prefer not to have Culver or ANT playing PG down the stretch when DLo is out with a sore thumb...

Good post.

I don’t have any problem seeing McLaughlin an our back up PG, and that makes it easier for me to consider a trade of Rubio (or DLo, though that’s highly unlikely). McLaughlin has played well whenever he has gotten minutes, it should not be difficult to convert his deal into a regular contract. This is the goal of two-way players, and they don’t have a lot of leverage. Obviously, I think he’s earned it.

I wouldn’t worry about a third string PG, because there are plenty of guys outside of the nba right now that would like a way back in. I’m not going to check them all and see if they are available, but I think Shabazz Napier, Jeremy Lin, Yogi Farrell .. maybe Mudiaye too .. didn’t end up with nba jobs, and any of them could be an emergency back up PG we could get for cheap.

That's the key ... he has done very well, and truthfully, there's been stretches where he's been our best PG due to both familiarity of the offense and productivity. If there's a playoff team needing a veteran PG, I'd be open to moving Rubio. If he all of a sudden starts playing really well ... then ya, we sit tight and try to breath some success into this culture.

Wild card in the background ... Leandro Bolmaro ... like a faster Rubio with a mid-range game that can drive & finish ...

[Norseman79]

Since Bleacher Report floated the idea of a Beasley trade...

MN out: DLo, Beasley
In: Cam Reddish, Danny Green, Mike Scott, Tony Bradley, Phili 2022 1rst, Atl 20211rst

Phili out: Green, Scott, Bradley, 2022 1rst
In: DLo

Atl out: Reddish, 2021 1rst
In: Beasley

I would try to flip Green and Scott to a 4 team for 2nds or young unproven players, essentially a salary dump.

Atl adds perfect backcourt mate for Young, at a decent salary, clears up logjam at SF, possibly leaves enough space to max Collins and only costs a 1rst.

Young
Beasley
Hunter
Collins
Capella

Phi adds a player in DLo who can play his game off of Simmons, with Curry and Harris to give Phili a legit shot at title, at only the cost of three players who haven't done much and a 2022 first likely to be in the 20's

DLo
Curry
Simmons
Harris
Embiid

Mn sheds salary, acquires picks, adds prospect and moves on.

Rubio, JMac
Edwards, Nowell, Okoge
Reddish, Culver, Layman
Mcdaniels, Vanderbilt, Juancho
Towns, Reid, Bradley

And three firsts in the next two years with players to add to move around draft.

Ok...rip away

[jpatrick]

I would love a deal like that one but zero chance Rosas moves on for DLo. His job rests on that trade working out. Plus, you’d piss off Towns. Not that we should be appeasing him, but just not happening.

Beasley to me is best served in a thirty minute sixth man role so I see the wisdom in moving him if his value is sky high, but again, I don’t see Rosas moving the one piece he acquires that appears to be working out. Plus, we kind of need his shooting, especially if moving DLo.

[life_saver]

I don't understand why you'd wanna trade Beasley unless he is part of a package that involves Wolves getting a star. He is a very good high volume 3 pt shooter and is on a great contract for 4 more years.

[Dewey]

I would love a deal like that one but zero chance Rosas moves on for DLo. His job rests on that trade working out. Plus, you’d piss off Towns. Not that we should be appeasing him, but just not happening.

Beasley to me is best served in a thirty minute sixth man role so I see the wisdom in moving him if his value is sky high, but again, I don’t see Rosas moving the one piece he acquires that appears to be working out. Plus, we kind of need his shooting, especially if moving DLo.

I just don’t see Rosas do a big move right now. We need at least a 20-game stretch to see where the chemistry is at IMO ... if your suddenly winning, players coming off the bench can often work itself out.

[Neeva]

[tweet][/tweet]

I don't understand why you'd wanna trade Beasley unless he is part of a package that involves Wolves getting a star. He is a very good high volume 3 pt shooter and is on a great contract for 4 more years.

Gotta sell high on a player like Beasley (maybe not yet though) Then do it over again with Jaylen Nowell when he becomes Beasley 2.0.

[NebWolvesFan]

Beasley has locked himself on this roster - he's on a solid contract and he's really good. Plus, Edwards seems like he can play the three. I don't see Minnesota moving on Beasley.

For me, the only players Rosas would consider trading would be Rubio, Layman, Hernangomez, Culver, Davis and maybe Okogie

[Norseman79]

I don't understand why you'd wanna trade Beasley unless he is part of a package that involves Wolves getting a star. He is a very good high volume 3 pt shooter and is on a great contract for 4 more years.

I didn't say I did, Bleacher Report brought it up. Just putting a spin on a trade. Wolves don't have the chips for a star.

[Wolveswin]

Grizzlies:
Winslow + 2024 Warriors 1st
FOR
Beasley

Pistons:
Griffin + Stewart + Ellington (filler)
FOR
Russell + Oubre + Paschall

Warriors:
Wiseman + Oubre + Paschall + Picks (see below)
FOR
Towns + Ellington + Vanderbilt + 2024 Warriors 1st (returned)

Wolves:
Towns + Beasley + Russell + Vanderbilt
FOR
Wiseman
Stewart
Griffin (ton of load management DNPs or buyout)
Winslow (own share of rehab DNPs)
2021 Wolves 1st (returned)
2021 Warriors 1st (21-30 protected) or 2021 Wolves 2nd (returned)
2022 Warriors 1st Swap (unprotected)
2023 Warriors 1st (unprotected)
2024 Warriors 1st Swap (unprotected)
2025 Warriors 1st (unprotected)
2026 Warriors 1st Swap (unprotected)
2027 Warriors 1st (unprotected)

At 2021 trade deadline if Towns returns to form but team still sucks, Wolves pull the Towns trade trigger.

Griffin and Winslow can ride plenty of pine for youth PT, and accept heavily discounted buyout(s) when ready. But no matter what, Wolves cap sheet is clear by 2022 offseason with Griffin, Winslow and Rubio all expiring.

Wiseman | Reid | Davis
(Griffin) | Stewart or McDaniels (fight for PFOF)
(Winslow) | Culver | Hernangomez | Layman
Edwards | Okogie | Nowell
Rubio | McJordan | (Cunningham or Suggs)

[shrink]

I just can’t see MIN trading Towns yet. The organization is tied to him, they brought in Russell for him, and they have only seen them play five games together. MIN is a poor free agent destination. KAT is young, and has plenty of room to improve even though he flashes stats as one of the best shooting bigs in NBA a history. MIN has him locked up for 3.5 more years, and will wait to see if they can compliment him with Edwards and their other young talent develop, or if they can make trades. Towns trades are unrealistic right now.

If I squint hard, I could see Rosas trading Beasley, but it’s unlikely. Malik has been very good offensively, shooting nearly 40% on three’s here, this season, and that’s important to the offense. The problem though is that he is a really bad pairing defensively with Russell as a starter. While Russell’s poor defense is because of a lack of athleticism and hustle, Malik’s is the opposite. He is overly aggressive, playing hero ball like Towns (used to do?), and he breaks the offensive system. That leads to us needing to play Okogie to get some defensive resistance, which makes the offense a mess. I could see the active-trader Rosas listening to calls. In the end though, I think Malik wants to be here, and we need more of that in Minnesota. I doubt he gets traded, but it’s a possibility.

[Baseline81]

I just can’t see MIN trading Towns yet. The organization is tied to him, they brought in Russell for him, and they have only seen them play five games together. MIN is a poor free agent destination. KAT is young, and has plenty of room to improve even though he flashes stats as one of the best shooting bigs in NBA a history. MIN has him locked up for 3.5 more years, and will wait to see if they can compliment him with Edwards and their other young talent develop, or if they can make trades. Towns trades are unrealistic right now.

If I squint hard, I could see Rosas trading Beasley, but it’s unlikely. Malik has been very good offensively, shooting nearly 40% on three’s here, this season, and that’s important to the offense. The problem though is that he is a really bad pairing defensively with Russell as a starter. While Russell’s poor defense is because of a lack of athleticism and hustle, Malik’s is the opposite. He is overly aggressive, playing hero ball like Towns (used to do?), and he breaks the offensive system. That leads to us needing to play Okogie to get some defensive resistance, which makes the offense a mess. I could see the active-trader Rosas listening to calls. In the end though, I think Malik wants to be here, and we need more of that in Minnesota. I doubt he gets traded, but it’s a possibility.

Try this, shrink. When you come across a hypothetical trade involving Towns, pretend you didn't see the post.

[shrink]

I just can’t see MIN trading Towns yet. The organization is tied to him, they brought in Russell for him, and they have only seen them play five games together. MIN is a poor free agent destination. KAT is young, and has plenty of room to improve even though he flashes stats as one of the best shooting bigs in NBA a history. MIN has him locked up for 3.5 more years, and will wait to see if they can compliment him with Edwards and their other young talent develop, or if they can make trades. Towns trades are unrealistic right now.

If I squint hard, I could see Rosas trading Beasley, but it’s unlikely. Malik has been very good offensively, shooting nearly 40% on three’s here, this season, and that’s important to the offense. The problem though is that he is a really bad pairing defensively with Russell as a starter. While Russell’s poor defense is because of a lack of athleticism and hustle, Malik’s is the opposite. He is overly aggressive, playing hero ball like Towns (used to do?), and he breaks the offensive system. That leads to us needing to play Okogie to get some defensive resistance, which makes the offense a mess. I could see the active-trader Rosas listening to calls. In the end though, I think Malik wants to be here, and we need more of that in Minnesota. I doubt he gets traded, but it’s a possibility.

Try this, shrink. When you come across a hypothetical trade involving Towns, pretend you didn't see the post.

Look, this is RealGM. There is a reason it’s not called InsaneGM. There is nothing unreal about anything I posted, and no one is debating that any one of these reasons might be enough to keep Towns off Rosas’ trading block.

“What if LeBron wants to join the Wolves now that he saw Edwards - what can we trade?” will also elicit reasons why this is nuts. Should we then continue, “well, if we ignore all those reasons LeBron isn’t coming here, it’s a realistic trade, right?”

I will continue to post a dose of reality here when I see any posts that I think are unreal.

[Crazy-Canuck]

No need to trade Kat, Ant, and Beasley. Those 3 pieces fit together without overlap. 2 way pg and a switchy defending pf would be my priorities.