Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition

[shrink]

Reading through this thread is wild. Actual discussions on trading for Jordan Poole. Trades that are impossible or practically impossible with the Wolves in the 2nd apron. The rosiest of rose colored glasses on who KAT was and is as a player. Connelly is bad now. Our pets heads are falling off.

I agree. I think this has been an over-reaction to an expected slow start to the season.

After the KAT trade mixed major pieces around, I’d hoped we’d be 12-8 or 11-9 after the first twenty games. 8-12 wouldn’t have surprised me. I’m not saying there aren’t fit problems, but every team has them, and Chris Finch have handled bigger fit problems when they get enough time. I think our longterm future is more solid, and our payroll is likely coming down to a reasonable number.

[dschroeder01]

Reading through this thread is wild. Actual discussions on trading for Jordan Poole. Trades that are impossible or practically impossible with the Wolves in the 2nd apron. The rosiest of rose colored glasses on who KAT was and is as a player. Connelly is bad now. Our pets heads are falling off.

I agree. I think this has been an over-reaction to an expected slow start to the season.

After the KAT trade mixed major pieces around, I’d hoped we’d be 12-8 or 11-9 after the first twenty games. 8-12 wouldn’t have surprised me. I’m not saying there aren’t fit problems, but every team has them, and Chris Finch have handled bigger fit problems when they get enough time. I think our longterm future is more solid, and our payroll is likely coming down to a reasonable number.

I wonder how people would be viewing this year if the Wolves had lost in 7 to Denver? People think of this team as a WCF team and it took that historic comeback to get to that point. My point is that this year's Wolves team was VERY likely to be worse than last year's no matter what unless Ant jumped to MVP level player which he clearly hasn't done. The D was near generational based on talent and a one off type of synergy that's really hard to repeat. By EPM, that team was heavily reliant on Conely and Rudy being great and they're aging guys. So many had too high of expectations.

Best case scenario is that the Wolves use the Dillingham money to instead pay Kyle and then recruit Tyus to replace Monte Morris in the rotation. How is that team significantly better than last figuring in age etc? People are too reactionary to a bad start when the alternative is that we're realistically 14-8 instead (maybe??) if we had kept KAT? Conley still would have slipped. Jaden still regresses.

Alternatively, what if guys just make a few more shots this year? During the 10 game stretch that included our losing streak, DDV, Conley, Naz, and Jaden all shot in the 20 percents from 3. In the 20s! A couple more made 3s in those games is at least a few more wins not to mention the difference in vibes and momentum.

[cmoss84]

I just don't think Randle is a good long term solution. And it's fun to mess around with trade ideas.

[frankenwolf]

I wonder how people would be viewing this year if the Wolves had lost in 7 to Denver? People think of this team as a WCF team and it took that historic comeback to get to that point. My point is that this year's Wolves team was VERY likely to be worse than last year's no matter what unless Ant jumped to MVP level player which he clearly hasn't done. The D was near generational based on talent and a one off type of synergy that's really hard to repeat. By EPM, that team was heavily reliant on Conely and Rudy being great and they're aging guys. So many had too high of expectations.

Best case scenario is that the Wolves use the Dillingham money to instead pay Kyle and then recruit Tyus to replace Monte Morris in the rotation. How is that team significantly better than last figuring in age etc? People are too reactionary to a bad start when the alternative is that we're realistically 14-8 instead (maybe??) if we had kept KAT? Conley still would have slipped. Jaden still regresses.

Alternatively, what if guys just make a few more shots this year? During the 10 game stretch that included our losing streak, DDV, Conley, Naz, and Jaden all shot in the 20 percents from 3. In the 20s! A couple more made 3s in those games is at least a few more wins not to mention the difference in vibes and momentum.

Another view is there is still the synergy from last year, the confidence that they can do it again and ZERO adjustment period because the top 7 are back. Naz isn't being forced to play out of position, McDaniels is shooting better because there is no pressure on him to perform at a higher level and KAT makes up for those who were shooting @ 20% from 3 and we are 16-4 because we know who we are.

There are, as always, more variables than we can account for on the floor and in the locker room. Am I disappointed that we are only one game over .500? Yes, but not surprised because, once again, the Wolves are trying to make everyone fit together on the fly. I have never been a Randle fan and I was pissed about the trade, but life and the game goes on. As fans, we just want our team to be perfect and win championships. At least, we still have a chance at a 'chip, but it's not as good as last year.

[cmoss84]

If you guys are getting sick of these, just breeze on by. Just fun to me. Otherwise, feel free to criticize! (I blame shrink for showing us this damn site!)

MN in: Herro, Kessler
MN out: Randle, DD, NAW, Minott, SRP '25 (via Utah)
(1st apron)
Herro/ANT/Jaden/NAZ/Rudy
Mike/TSJ/Miller/Kessler
RD/Garza
***1st apron: Allows us to resign NAZ, buys time for RD to marinate, TSJ is the new NAW, Miller is the new-old-NAZ***

Mia in: Randle, Clarkson, NAW, Minott, 3 FRPs (via Cleveland)
Mia out: Herro, Robinson, JJJ, Ware
(1st apron)

Utah in: DD, JJJ, Robinson, Ware, SRP '25 (via Utah)
Utah out: Kessler, 3 FRPs '25, '27, '29 (via Cleveland)
(under 1st apron)

[winforlose]

If you guys are getting sick of these, just breeze on by. Just fun to me. Otherwise, feel free to criticize! (I blame shrink for showing us this damn site!)

MN in: Herro, Kessler
MN out: Randle, DD, NAW, Minott, SRP '25 (via Utah)
(1st apron)
Herro/ANT/Jaden/NAZ/Rudy
Mike/TSJ/Miller/Kessler
RD/Garza
***1st apron: Allows us to resign NAZ, buys time for RD to marinate, TSJ is the new NAW, Miller is the new-old-NAZ***

Mia in: Randle, Clarkson, NAW, Minott, 3 FRPs (via Cleveland)
Mia out: Herro, Robinson, JJJ, Ware
(1st apron)

Utah in: DD, JJJ, Robinson, Ware, SRP '25 (via Utah)
Utah out: Kessler, 3 FRPs '25, '27, '29 (via Cleveland)
(under 1st apron)

So I think this makes us objectively worse. I have no faith that Kessler is a long term value player. He had a good season followed by a bad season followed by a decent start to this season. His numbers on a team that is 4-17 isn’t super convincing. Herro is overrated IMO and I would rather DDV than him. Losing NAW and Minott to facilitate this also costs us games. I would actively demand multiple picks back from Utah to entertain anything close to this. I would say this is not only a talent downgrade, but sticks us with a bad Herro contract.

[cmoss84]

If you guys are getting sick of these, just breeze on by. Just fun to me. Otherwise, feel free to criticize! (I blame shrink for showing us this damn site!)

MN in: Herro, Kessler
MN out: Randle, DD, NAW, Minott, SRP '25 (via Utah)
(1st apron)
Herro/ANT/Jaden/NAZ/Rudy
Mike/TSJ/Miller/Kessler
RD/Garza
***1st apron: Allows us to resign NAZ, buys time for RD to marinate, TSJ is the new NAW, Miller is the new-old-NAZ***

Mia in: Randle, Clarkson, NAW, Minott, 3 FRPs (via Cleveland)
Mia out: Herro, Robinson, JJJ, Ware
(1st apron)

Utah in: DD, JJJ, Robinson, Ware, SRP '25 (via Utah)
Utah out: Kessler, 3 FRPs '25, '27, '29 (via Cleveland)
(under 1st apron)

So I think this makes us objectively worse. I have no faith that Kessler is a long term value player. He had a good season followed by a bad season followed by a decent start to this season. His numbers on a team that is 4-17 isn’t super convincing. Herro is overrated IMO and I would rather DDV than him. Losing NAW and Minott to facilitate this also costs us games. I would actively demand multiple picks back from Utah to entertain anything close to this. I would say this is not only a talent downgrade, but sticks us with a bad Herro contract.

Thanks for your feedback-I appreciate it!

[winforlose]

If you guys are getting sick of these, just breeze on by. Just fun to me. Otherwise, feel free to criticize! (I blame shrink for showing us this damn site!)

MN in: Herro, Kessler
MN out: Randle, DD, NAW, Minott, SRP '25 (via Utah)
(1st apron)
Herro/ANT/Jaden/NAZ/Rudy
Mike/TSJ/Miller/Kessler
RD/Garza
***1st apron: Allows us to resign NAZ, buys time for RD to marinate, TSJ is the new NAW, Miller is the new-old-NAZ***

Mia in: Randle, Clarkson, NAW, Minott, 3 FRPs (via Cleveland)
Mia out: Herro, Robinson, JJJ, Ware
(1st apron)

Utah in: DD, JJJ, Robinson, Ware, SRP '25 (via Utah)
Utah out: Kessler, 3 FRPs '25, '27, '29 (via Cleveland)
(under 1st apron)

So I think this makes us objectively worse. I have no faith that Kessler is a long term value player. He had a good season followed by a bad season followed by a decent start to this season. His numbers on a team that is 4-17 isn’t super convincing. Herro is overrated IMO and I would rather DDV than him. Losing NAW and Minott to facilitate this also costs us games. I would actively demand multiple picks back from Utah to entertain anything close to this. I would say this is not only a talent downgrade, but sticks us with a bad Herro contract.

Thanks for your feedback-I appreciate it!

Gonna assume this is genuine and say your welcome

[cmoss84]

So I think this makes us objectively worse. I have no faith that Kessler is a long term value player. He had a good season followed by a bad season followed by a decent start to this season. His numbers on a team that is 4-17 isn’t super convincing. Herro is overrated IMO and I would rather DDV than him. Losing NAW and Minott to facilitate this also costs us games. I would actively demand multiple picks back from Utah to entertain anything close to this. I would say this is not only a talent downgrade, but sticks us with a bad Herro contract.

Thanks for your feedback-I appreciate it!

Gonna assume this is genuine and say your welcome

I'm far more knowledgeable in the worlds of MLB and NFL. Trying to get back into NBA, but it has been a while! A lot of savvy basketball minds on here for sure.

[Klomp]

Since this front office (as most do) loves looking to its previous connections, here are players who were in Orlando with Matt Lloyd and have varying price points:

Nikola Vucevic
Tobias Harris
Elfrid Payton
Aaron Gordon
Jonathan Isaac
Mo Bamba

[winforlose]

Thanks for your feedback-I appreciate it!

Gonna assume this is genuine and say your welcome

I'm far more knowledgeable in the worlds of MLB and NFL. Trying to get back into NBA, but it has been a while! A lot of savvy basketball minds on here for sure.

It’s the opposite for me. I am a fair weather Twins fan, and I like Football, but having never played it, I know much less about it than Basketball. Basketball has always been my sport. I cannot talk intelligently about baseball or football trades, but I do like to discuss Basketball trades. I do like your out of the box approach to some of these so please keep em coming

[Klomp]

I had forgotten about this from draft night:

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

It may or may not be true (Drew Lock 2.0?), but it is at least interesting to think about.

Now, on the surface, a trade deadline deal of Nickeil Alexander-Walker for DaRon Holmes (out for season with achilles injury) would be viewed as a clear step back for a franchise and fan base with playoff aspirations. But could this deal help the franchise better balance out the depth chart in order to maximize some of its current players going forward?

It would likely have to be supplemented with either a signing or bumping up minutes for a guy like Minott, Garza or Miller this season. But it would also make room for DiVincenzo to play his more natural off-guard position as well as open up more minutes for Dillingham with the second unit. Trading a soon-to-be free agent for a rookie on the first year of his four-year deal (three of those under $3.5 million) would also greatly help the team's cap sheet.

[shrink]

NAW for Holmes is an interesting concept. If NY was the team that would give us the most in trade for Towns, I’d bet Denver would give us the most for NAW. They desperately need a point of attack defender, they want to contend right now, and it might stop Jamal Murray’s PTSD from the playoffs, if he knew NAW wouldn’t be guarding him any more. It’s actually so valuable to DEN that they would be a threat to MIN. Getting a 1st for an expiring deal is a great return. So a high risk, high return deal for both teams.

Unfortunately, DEN used part of their MLE to sign Dario Saric, so they are a second apron team. Like us, that means they can’t take back more in trade than they send out. Perhaps a third team could get involved, to take on one of their tiny contracts. For example, DEN could also send Hunter Tyson to DET, and DET could send us a top-55 protected 2nd.

[cmoss84]

Alright. One more to finish the week off. Hear me out: Milwaukee underwhelms the entire month of December. They want to cash in on Giannis before it's too late. Chicago plays well the month of December, and decides to throw some chips in and semi-go-for-it this year. They also aren't that happy about Giddey, so they are fine with subtracting him. We make a FRANCHISE changing trade.

Chi in: DD, Portis, Connaughton, Beauchamp
Chi out: Giddey, Phillips, '25 FRP, '25 SRP (via SAC), '28 FRP
(1st apron hard-capped)

Mil in: Randle, Jaden, Giddey, Phillips, '25 FRP (CHI), '25 SRP (SAC), '25 SRP (Utah), '26 FRP (MN) '28 FRP (Chi)
Mil out: Giannis, Portis, Connaughton, Beauchamp, AJ Green
(1st apron)

MN in: Giannis, AJ Green
MN out: Randle, Jaden, DD, '25 SRP (Utah), '26 FRP
(1st apron)

Mike-ANT-NAZ-Giannis-Rudy
RD-NAW-Green-Miller-Minott
TSJ-Garza
Dozier-Nix
(Would you start NAW or NAZ at the 3?)

[TimberKat]

Alright. One more to finish the week off. Hear me out: Milwaukee underwhelms the entire month of December. They want to cash in on Giannis before it's too late. Chicago plays well the month of December, and decides to throw some chips in and semi-go-for-it this year. They also aren't that happy about Giddey, so they are fine with subtracting him. We make a FRANCHISE changing trade.

Chi in: DD, Portis, Connaughton, Beauchamp
Chi out: Giddey, Phillips, '25 FRP, '25 SRP (via SAC), '28 FRP
(1st apron hard-capped)

Mil in: Randle, Jaden, Giddey, Phillips, '25 FRP (CHI), '25 SRP (SAC), '25 SRP (Utah), '26 FRP (MN) '28 FRP (Chi)
Mil out: Giannis, Portis, Connaughton, Beauchamp, AJ Green
(1st apron)

MN in: Giannis, AJ Green
MN out: Randle, Jaden, DD, '25 SRP (Utah), '26 FRP
(1st apron)

Mike-ANT-NAZ-Giannis-Rudy
RD-NAW-Green-Miller-Minott
TSJ-Garza
Dozier-Nix
(Would you start NAW or NAZ at the 3?)

If we get Giannis to go with Ant, you can throw everything into it including Taylor, Connelly, and my grandmother. We could start over with the entire support cast.

[Norseman79]

If we trade Randle, we need a starter or at least two strong role players back.

If we trade NAW it needs to be for a defensive minded PG

If we trade DD it needs to be for a 3pt shooting PG

No matter who we trade, getting a legit backup C as part of it or result of it is huge.

Does anyone think we could land Dejounte Murray? Would Randle and Dillingham be enough for Murray and a 1rst?

MN out: Randle, Dillingham
In: Murray, Robinson-Earl, Matkovic and 25 Milwaukee 1rst (heavily protected)


Murray, Conley
Edwards, NAW, DD
McDaniels, Minott
Reid, Robinson-Earl
Gobert

Would look to add backup 5.
Gives Reid the chance to prove he is worth $$
Wolves could move people/Conley retire after season to resign Naz if needed.

[BlacJacMac]

Atlanta would have to covet Randle, because Dilly makes very little sense there.

[Norseman79]

Atlanta would have to covet Randle, because Dilly makes very little sense there.

Murray is in new Orleans

[dschroeder01]

If we trade Randle, we need a starter or at least two strong role players back.

If we trade NAW it needs to be for a defensive minded PG

If we trade DD it needs to be for a 3pt shooting PG

No matter who we trade, getting a legit backup C as part of it or result of it is huge.

Does anyone think we could land Dejounte Murray? Would Randle and Dillingham be enough for Murray and a 1rst?

MN out: Randle, Dillingham
In: Murray, Robinson-Earl, Matkovic and 25 Milwaukee 1rst (heavily protected)


Murray, Conley
Edwards, NAW, DD
McDaniels, Minott
Reid, Robinson-Earl
Gobert

Would look to add backup 5.
Gives Reid the chance to prove he is worth $$
Wolves could move people/Conley retire after season to resign Naz if needed.

A couple of things.

This isn't a legal trade with the aprons. We can't aggregate players so it would need to be split up into separate trades and NO can't take back more than $3.8M more in trade as they'd be hard capped at the 1st apron. Randle for Murray and Robinson-Earl works as one trade, but then you'd need to trade Dillingham for Jordan Hawkins or more likely their 2 full minimum guys Thies and Green. So that would be Randle and Dilly for Murray, Robinson-Earl, Theis, and Green plus whatever picks. Wolves would have to cut 2 players and eat that tax money. That's really complicated and expensive for the Wolves.

The 2nd thing is why would NO make this deal? They're just completely blowing it up? Randle makes no sense there unless Zion is being dumped in some other trade. Are they prepared to do that during the season? If they're blowing it up, there's no way they'd be giving up any FRP in a deal.

This seems like something that would need to happen in an offseason. That said, I've always been interested in the idea of Murray as a PG next to Ant. Murray was miscast as a SG next to Trae. He's not the kind of defender that can cover bigger guards, but as a PG, I wonder if he can get back to being an above average defender. He could take the smaller guards with Ant taking the bigger bodies. Maybe he could get back to being more of a ballhawk like he was in San Antonio. Murray isn't a true floor general, but he's a functional PG who is a good rebounder for his position. He's improved as a 3 pt shooter. If we could find a way to get him in the offseason, I'd be interested.

[jpatrick]

I despise Randle as much as any Wolf in my lifetime, and I’m not sure why. He’s a needed player type, a #2 shot creator on the team. He seems like a good guy. He’s been efficient. But I think the team is just better with him on the bench. I’m not sure if the numbers back up that eye test.

Randle is a second ball stopper. But it’s his effort that drives me nuts. Even last night he had an offensive rebound bounce right to him, but he didn’t move to get it, not one step, and Kuminga ended up out efforting him and getting the ball. Our best lineups, by eye test, are Ant, Rudy, Naz, and then 2 of McDaniels, NAW, and DDV.

Because I think Naz and Naw are more valuable than Randle and our cap won’t support keeping Randle, NAW, and Naz after this season, we need to move Randle for an expiring and hopefully a young player/asset. My dream would be a three team deal that gets us an expiring and Jabari Smith, who is struggling offensively this year but a very good defender that can play the 4 and 5.