Butler has requested a trade, the saga continues

[CptCrunch]

Remember, the 4 picks are spread out over the next 7 years. That is why if there is not protection on the picks this is actually a nice trade. It isn't a win now type of deal, but we are not winning now with anyone we get in a Jimmy trade, unless Kat and Wig take off once he is gone.

Can anyone tell me more about M. Chriss? Is he a straight 4, or is he like an Aaron Gordon who can play the 3/4?

Chriss is straight up garbage. Doesn't matter what position he supposedly plays.

[PharmD]

You're getting distracted by the specific way that chart tries to measure player impact. There's lots of different measurements that will show the same thing; higher draft picks are more valuable

[Jedzz]

Robert Covington, Dario Saric , Jarred Bayless for Jimmy Butler .. A PF with upside in Saric and a 2nd D wing to compliment Wiggins.

I really think Saric has the right mentality as a player. He might shine here. Then again some fans might complain he's stealing thunder from Kat if he did. Are those three enough for Butler? I don't know. It's a way to move on.

[Jedzz]

You're getting distracted by the specific way that chart tries to measure player impact. There's lots of different measurements that will show the same thing; higher draft picks are more valuable

I won't refute the reality of the league starting ultra high draft picks or at least playing them immediately. I refute that it's truthfully showing that it's the only place to find good players. The fact is it's just harder for them to break into the starting lineups and it skews such charts.

This chart is showing a huge drop right around the 6th/7th pick. I guess that means we should always trade up or down if our pick is there. And if so, that means we miss out on Stephen Curry. Oh that's right. We did miss out on Stephen Curry. Because we probably thought the players projected in that area fall poorly on the charts of historical sillyness. Please excuse me, I just don't buy into how some players remain starters and paid in this league.

[Jedzz]

I want to keep using Wiggins if you don't mind, Pharmd. Some teams that screw up in the draft high end up dumping that pick in short order to catfish teams scrubbing the floor for scraps. Those teams, The Wolves of the prior 13-14 years, scoop em up and sell fools gold hope because they think it's easier than sculpting dirtballs and selling that. This prolongs a poor draft picks career and his effects on those charts. So how are the charts going to show you real data when this kind of thing keeps happening around the league? I've read fans in forums now hoping we can sucker some other perennial losing team into taking Wiggins when we salary dump him. That team, if they find one, will once again feature a player for more minutes than he deserves and continue the chart busting lie of top draft picks. If they can't fail because teams won't let them really fail very often, I just don't see the truth in these charts. Do you believe there is any truth in what I am saying? I think we have no future until everyone involved with a team like the Wolves starts to get this. So far, choices made on where players have been drafted have killed this team. Has it not?

[shangrila]

Those picks won't be unprotected, there's just no way Morey would leave himself open to being Brooklyned, but even top 3 protected they have some value. It is more of a calculated risk than it ever was for Boston though.

The pick this year and, unless the unlikely happens, the one in 2021 will be late 1sts. That isn't great but it's far from worthless. The issue is trying to project beyond that. Even if you ignore the players they have now, Morey and the team previously treadmilled rather than tanked before they got Harden. That makes me think those last 2 picks are probably late lottery at best, maybe mid in that 6-10 range at absolute maximum. Again, not great but still good. Personally, I'd be happy with that. We were never getting equal value for Jimmy and these picks can be useful as assets moving forward.

The stickler for me is the salary filler. If it's Brandon Knight I'm not interested. There is no reason to take on extra salary for an ineffective player at a position we're strong at right now. The main pieces thrown around last time, atleast from our end, were PJ Tucker and Eric Gordon. Neither have gotten off to a good start this year though, with Gordon shooting 25% from 3 and Tucker only managing 28% from 2 (weirder when you consider he's shooting 43% from 3). Of the two I'd imagine they're more willing to let Gordon go; theoretically you can replace him with Knight, whereas Tucker's defence is harder to find. Conversely I'd bet the Wolves would rather Tucker too, he fits in far more seamlessly right now than Gordon would.

I doubt we get both, especially with the picks. That would be a great deal for us all things considered, which makes me think it won't happen. So one or the other, in which case Gordon is more realistic and I'm ok with that. He is the reigning 6MOY, after all, and on a decent contract. If his play picks up you can even move him to a contender if you want.

But if it's Gordon alone you would need more salary to match, so you're looking at Nene and/or Chriss (who can't be traded in combination with others until Oct 31st). Nene is just salary at this point. Chriss I know nothing about, aside from the fact that he's young and disappointed in Phoenix. Whether that's his fault or Phoenix's, I couldn't say, but you could at least argue he has "potential".

Personally I'm more interested in Hartenstein. He's young, cheap and locked up for 3yrs while being one of those finesse Euro bigs with the wing skills that are becoming so popular in the NBA right now. Might be why they wouldn't let him go though, but that's who I'd be asking for.

So something like the picks, Gordon, Nene and Hartenstein would be a good deal to me. Not great, but enough.

[vagelis]

It is about probabilities.
It is a lot more possible to select a good player at number1-5 than in late first round pick.
Even if you make a bad choice at 1-5 he will probably(nothing is sure) still be better than a late first round pick.
You have few choices at 30th pick because other teams have selected before you

[Jedzz]

With the Towns supermax and Wiggins max the team is probably going to be living or dying on how well they draft one player each year. If you want to keep any kind of vet presence on the team that will take remainders of cap. Will need draft talent on cheap deals that can play.

you think Towns is gonna make an All-NBA team this year?

I really can't say yet. I don't know how he'll respond to anyone new that comes in from a Butler trade or how Thibs would change things once that happens. I only know the team is locked into paying two players like they are both allstars so, like the Houston Rockets we will have to either Pay through the nose with assets and money to get a third, or start drafting players to put around them that will be cheap for these years. The team could always trade away two future Rockets picks for a decent player today as well, and still have two extra firsts coming our way.

[Jedzz]

It is about probabilities.
It is a lot more possible to select a good player at number1-5 than in late first round pick.
Even if you make a bad choice at 1-5 he will probably(nothing is sure) still be better than a late first round pick.
You have few choices at 30th pick because other teams have selected before you

I completely agree and understand that to be true. Absolutely we should expect all the teams to know what to look for and to cherry pick the best first. But I also think we all understand or should that it's never been a certainty.

The real part I have a problem with is the baggage that making a pick in the top 5 carries on all future decisions. Or what being pick 25 does to the chances for a player. Nobody wants to let those top picks be failures because they have put so much unearned belief and value in them. I have a feeling that's how Wiggins got his max deal. Had the Wolves not offered it or really lowballed him, they immediately throw a large portion of that fictitious value out the window. They weren't prepared to do so. To pay him, the act of doing so, helps him maintain some of that value. To continue giving him shots and minutes saves his value a little longer. That's why he can't be a sixth man here but it would have been ok for Lavine to be one here. Now he's the one starting with consecutive 30 point games, but it had to happen elsewhere because of our belief in the order of picks. These things do skew it all. Actual real probability might show that out of the shear numbers of players available each year that teams should be able to find more capable players late than they often have. But humans being humans can get in the way.

[DaKid]

There is no chance that Houston can trade 4 picks for Jimmy Butler straight up. They have to somehow match butlers salary. That pretty much means that we would be taking Gordon and filler back. If we can't keep Butler, I'm all for Gordon and 4 1st round picks and probably Nene for Butler. Gordon would be a nice fit here I think and he's the same age as Butler.

[Jedzz]

There is no chance that Houston can trade 4 picks for Jimmy Butler straight up. They have to somehow match butlers salary. That pretty much means that we would be taking Gordon and filler back. If we can't keep Butler, I'm all for Gordon and 4 1st round picks and probably Nene for Butler. Gordon would be a nice fit here I think and he's the same age as Butler.

Do they have enough in players they would like to move in order to get two other future firsts from two other teams? That way they could send us two Rockets firsts, and two future FRPs from two other teams while also shipping enough bodies around the four teams to make all this match. I think what I just wrote was the dumbest thing I've read all day.

[packforfreedom]

I doubt Woj makes things up so I believe the offer is true and I'd do the trade.

[shangrila]

There is no chance that Houston can trade 4 picks for Jimmy Butler straight up. They have to somehow match butlers salary. That pretty much means that we would be taking Gordon and filler back. If we can't keep Butler, I'm all for Gordon and 4 1st round picks and probably Nene for Butler. Gordon would be a nice fit here I think and he's the same age as Butler.

Do they have enough in players they would like to move in order to get two other future firsts from two other teams? That way they could send us two Rockets firsts, and two future FRPs from two other teams while also shipping enough bodies around the four teams to make all this match. I think what I just wrote was the dumbest thing I've read all day.

I doubt it. Their roster isn't very attractive outside of the guys we've named already and their stars, at least when it comes to 1sts.

[Jedzz]

So something like the picks, Gordon, Nene and Hartenstein would be a good deal to me. Not great, but enough.

I hope it would end up including someone the team could find useful now in some way like this along with the picks.

If I think back to the days before they traded for Butler, everyone would have blown a gasket in Wolvesland if we offered four FRPs for Butler. Even if the reality of our typical drafting spots wasn't any different than Houston's. At first it was just going to be One player and swapping picks. Then ended up being two players and a pick swap and that caused enough arguments.

[vagelis]

The real part I have a problem with is the baggage that making a pick in the top 5 carries on all future decisions. Or what being pick 25 does to the chances for a player. Nobody wants to let those top picks be failures because they have put so much unearned belief and value in them. I have a feeling that's how Wiggins got his max deal. Had the Wolves not offered it or really lowballed him, they immediately throw a large portion of that fictitious value out the window. They weren't prepared to do so. To pay him, the act of doing so, helps him maintain some of that value. To continue giving him shots and minutes saves his value a little longer. That's why he can't be a sixth man here but it would have been ok for Lavine to be one here. Now he's the one starting with consecutive 30 point games, but it had to happen elsewhere because of our belief in the order of picks. These things do skew it all. Actual real probability might show that out of the shear numbers of players available each year that teams should be able to find more capable players late than they often have. But humans being humans can get in the way.

I don't agree with you.
Anthony Bennett a number one pick got out of the league in 2 years.
Beasley nr2 pick was sent to China for 2 years while he is capable to be a 15-20ppg player in every team who gives him oportunity.
I don't think that teams are engaged with high drafted players.
And about Wiggins, the time he got the contract he was a 24ppg scorer while 21 yo.
That had nothing to do with his draft selection order

[big3_8_19_21]

Oh OBVIOUSLY. It was so OBVIOUS that you didn't say what they were. Care to reveal what the proposed protections are, all-knowing master of information?

Obviously it's in the article. Obviously you didn't make even half an attempt to gain the information before snapping. Obviously you can look it up yourself.

Lol. Obviously I read the article. Obviously there weren't any specifics. Obviously you are talking out of the side of your neck.

He outlines some parameters on protections. Your illiteracy is not my problem. Goodbye.

[minimus]

The stickler for me is the salary filler. If it's Brandon Knight I'm not interested. There is no reason to take on extra salary for an ineffective player at a position we're strong at right now. The main pieces thrown around last time, atleast from our end, were PJ Tucker and Eric Gordon. Neither have gotten off to a good start this year though, with Gordon shooting 25% from 3 and Tucker only managing 28% from 2 (weirder when you consider he's shooting 43% from 3). Of the two I'd imagine they're more willing to let Gordon go; theoretically you can replace him with Knight, whereas Tucker's defence is harder to find. Conversely I'd bet the Wolves would rather Tucker too, he fits in far more seamlessly right now than Gordon would.

I doubt we get both, especially with the picks. That would be a great deal for us all things considered, which makes me think it won't happen. So one or the other, in which case Gordon is more realistic and I'm ok with that. He is the reigning 6MOY, after all, and on a decent contract. If his play picks up you can even move him to a contender if you want.

But if it's Gordon alone you would need more salary to match, so you're looking at Nene and/or Chriss (who can't be traded in combination with others until Oct 31st). Nene is just salary at this point. Chriss I know nothing about, aside from the fact that he's young and disappointed in Phoenix. Whether that's his fault or Phoenix's, I couldn't say, but you could at least argue he has "potential".

Personally I'm more interested in Hartenstein. He's young, cheap and locked up for 3yrs while being one of those finesse Euro bigs with the wing skills that are becoming so popular in the NBA right now. Might be why they wouldn't let him go though, but that's who I'd be asking for.

So something like the picks, Gordon, Nene and Hartenstein would be a good deal to me. Not great, but enough.

What about:

MIN: Gordon, Chriss, Shumpert, 3 FRPs
HOU: Butler
SAC: Dieng, HOU FRP

We get an exipring, much needed shooter at wings on a good contract, prospect and FRPs.

[Klomp]

I don't want those picks & I doubt Thibs would accept that because he'd get fired before those picks were used.

I thought Taylor said that Layden is handling the trade talks?

[sully00]

There is no chance that Houston can trade 4 picks for Jimmy Butler straight up. They have to somehow match butlers salary. That pretty much means that we would be taking Gordon and filler back. If we can't keep Butler, I'm all for Gordon and 4 1st round picks and probably Nene for Butler. Gordon would be a nice fit here I think and he's the same age as Butler.

As a fascinated observer I would be pretty sure that what HOU has in mind is Knight and Chriss and the 4 first round picks which is what Woj is hinting at. This is the element of the BOS/BRK trade that always gets forgotten. BRK had made a huge mistake with Gerald Wallace (among many other things). But the trade was as much about dumping their bad debt as bringing aging vets in for a run.

I am sure the player part of that package is gross to MINN management but I am not sure MINN ownership is going to care. The '23-'25 picks could be gold.

[har13]

First of all i understand that you want to be a winning team right now but let my ask you what is your goals?

I mean our you going to win the championship this year?
You believe anyone is going to offer you anything more than a player like Saric?

If you accept this offer you will own 11 first round pics until 2025, this is huge if you ask me cause you can do what ever you want with them, you can trade them if you like.

You think you can't find someone better than Saric if you decide to offer those pics? Imagine if you take a step back this year and your 2019 pick is a top 10 one, what more a team can ask...