2017 Draft Thread

[alabamawolf]

Id also do #3 for Lavine straight up. Jackson has a big time future and will be the more complete player. Lavine's ideal role is a 6th man

[Note30]

Id also do #3 for Lavine straight up. Jackson has a big time future and will be the more complete player. Lavine's ideal role is a 6th man

Based on what?

LaVine plays better defense than Wiggs at his position, is a better shooter, and has equivalent athleticism.

Scoring wise the only difference is how often LaVine gets the ball, and tbh I'd rather he be our primary scoring wing than Wiggs.

Had it been Wiggins who tore his ACL, LaVine probably would have ended up scoring just as much.

[alabamawolf]

Id also do #3 for Lavine straight up. Jackson has a big time future and will be the more complete player. Lavine's ideal role is a 6th man

Based on what?

LaVine plays better defense than Wiggs at his position, is a better shooter, and has equivalent athleticism.

Scoring wise the only difference is how often LaVine gets the ball, and tbh I'd rather he be our primary scoring wing than Wiggs.

Had it been Wiggins who tore his ACL, LaVine probably would have ended up scoring just as much.

Wiggins is a far better defender at the 2 than Lavine. Lavine has bad defensive awareness. His offensive playing style is also better suited coming off the bench as a spark plug. Wiggins isn't a good defender by any means but he has a better toolset moving forward

[Biggsohnasty]

Based on what we've seen I do think it's fair to think Lavine's ideal role is 'gunner off the bench' - not saying he can't play 25-30 mpg but if Jackson was on the board and they offered the pick for Zach, I'd take it. Think Jackson will be a better player in about 2 years and while I do worry about some knucklehead tendencies with him, I think he's going to be a stud.

[PharmD]

There's no way that Lavine is a better defender than Wiggins. Wiggins played really great defense for about 30 games in the middle of the season and i'd expect to see that as the standard going forward.

[rugbyrugger23]

For those of you who think a stretch 4 is needed...

A) LaVine + 7 for Jackson (3) + Saric

Or

B) Wiggins for Jackson (3) + TLC

And at 7 take Isaac or Markkanen.

[Biggsohnasty]

The team needs a 4 there's no doubt about that.

How is Saric defensively? I don't know maybe I'm the only one who is tired of watching the Wolves get murdered every time they run into a big man who plays like an actual big man.

The game where JaMychal Green went for like 27 and 15 and guys are just bouncing off him inside won't stop haunting me. Get a big who can play some defense and start controlling the paint a little more on that end.

Dieng and Towns could develop into better defenders but neither one is particularly strong when they run into bruiser types - which there are still plenty of for those who just think it's a small guy game all day all the time now.

[minimus]

I think we need a PF who can play within high paced offense/defense. Not just a big one. Drummond, Valanciunas, Howard. They all looked exposed against top level offenses. We have KAT who is 35-40 mpg bigman, then Dieng on long-term contract. Missed puzzle is more consistent Bjelica. Saric is a good player, who fits this definition if he improves his shot a bit.

[FinnTheHuman]

For those of you who think a stretch 4 is needed...

A) LaVine + 7 for Jackson (3) + Saric

Or

B) Wiggins for Jackson (3) + TLC

And at 7 take Isaac or Markkanen.

I like the 1st one because of Saric. He's projected to become a rich man's Bjelica, a perfect fit for us. I'm not a fan of the second one because I'm not sold on any of those potential 4s in this draft, I'd rather have Saric than waiting for Isaac to become a 4 or hope for Markannen to become a decent defender.

[Village Idiot]

I'm surprised Bam Adebayo isn't a guy you're discussing. He's strong enough to defend the post but quick enough to switch onto guards. Good help side shot blocker with much better awareness and anticipation than Dieng. He's a good shooter and ball handler but didn't get to show it in Lexington

[Worm Guts]

I'm surprised Bam Adebayo isn't a guy you're discussing. He's strong enough to defend the post but quick enough to switch onto guards. Good help side shot blocker with much better awareness and anticipation than Dieng. He's a good shooter and ball handler but didn't get to show it in Lexington

He doesn't seem to be projected anywhere near our pick. Draft Express has him going 32.

[HitmanCapone]

I'm surprised Bam Adebayo isn't a guy you're discussing. He's strong enough to defend the post but quick enough to switch onto guards. Good help side shot blocker with much better awareness and anticipation than Dieng. He's a good shooter and ball handler but didn't get to show it in Lexington

He doesn't seem to be projected anywhere near our pick. Draft Express has him going 32.

I like Bam and would have no problem adding him if we could get a late 1st/early 2nd

[alabamawolf]

Surprised Bam's projected that low. That Kentucky team was hard to stop when they got him going. He'll definitely be a solid rotation big man for awhile

[derek360]

Smith is 19 years old so like with any freshman, he's far from a finished product.

Blaming leadership and the dumpster fire that was the NC State program this year on him is silly. If your program needs a freshman to come in and not only be your far and away best player but also the unquestioned leader, you got problems.

Smith's outside shot can definitely be characterized as "streaky" but it's nowhere near a liability like it is for Dunn.

If it comes down to picking a prospect based on offense or defense, I'll take a 19 year old who needs work on defense over a 22 year old one with no offense to speak of. Smith could come in and earn minutes as he develops on the defensive end. That seems like something that can be very simple.


Use some imagination - what would Smith's stock look like if he were to have picked UNC rather than NC State. If he would've gone to a stable program - on the court - with good players around him where he didn't have to shoulder as much responsibility on a team where he would've been more accountable for some of the bad habits. I'd bet he'd be in Top-3 consideration.

Another way of looking at it is why did Smith (and guys like Fultz, Simmons from last year and Michael Porter this upcoming fall) go to these terrible programs? One answer is to show that they can be THE guy regardless of situation. LSU, Missouri and Washington aren't the cream of the crop in terms of college basketball, but their arrivals signaled a possible change in culture and a shot at the big time. Smith chose to stay home (he grew up a State fan), Porter and Simmons chose to follow their dads (in Simmons' case his godfather) and a UWs assistant knew Fultz's trainer and they offered a scholarship before everyone else. By being THE guy, you are the leader whether you like it or not, so it's interesting how each player handled it. Fultz played like a boss (2nd freshman to average at least 20 pts, 5 rebs and 5 asts in the last 22 years), Simmons wasn't too bad either (running the fast break and passing to tim quarterman for 3s and such) and Smith in my mind was just ok (wasn't even the best player in my mind in the beginning of the season and gradually became better). If he went to UNC or whatever, do you really think he could handle those high pressure situations? That is why Joel Berry and Nate Britt were there. The fact that these guys are still top prospects is not indicative of their program, it's about their talent and their talent only as it pertains to their potential in the NBA. Smith is already considered a top 5 pick and if he didn't get injured in high school probably would've been in discussion for the #1 pick.

If I am a GM, that is exactly who I want, someone to shoulder the responsibility and be the leader that my team is looking for. Smith, to me is not that guy and the tape shows that. Fox is a better leader than Smith is (not to mention a faster and smarter player; Fox played on the better team, but I think everyone saw he outplayed Ball and UCLA and really took the game into his own hands). If I am the Magic GM, do I really want to rebuild my team with Dennis Smith? If I am the Wolves, are we giving up on Dunn so early and trading Rubio just to draft Smith? I really hope not.

I actually wanted the Wolves to take Jamal Murray last year but Thibs went with defense and took Dunn. Hasn't worked out obviously but it's only his 1st year. The T-Wolves need stability (4th coach in 4 years) and I just don't think Smith is the answer. I'd rather have Issac, who although played 26 mins a game, played them in shifts like hockey (since FSU played 12 players) so not much tread and in my mind has the highest ceiling of any player in this draft. Please feel free to disagree.

Good points. I'll disagree with some of it though not all.

If Fox is on the board somehow and the Wolves are picking, I'm taking him. Yeah you will catch flack for yet another point guard who doesn't shoot well but Fox is 19 and there is at least something to work with in that it's not entirely broken like Rubio's was.

Dennis Smith might not have done the best job leading NC State last season. He had his share of inconsistent moments - but I'd argue that almost every point guard had those but were better insulated with proper talent around them. If Smith struggled, his team got blown out. Fultz was in the same boat and let's not pretend Fultz was this spectacular leader for Washington - he put up huge numbers on an awful team. And I'm not holding the lack of winning against those guys. Blaming a freshman point guard for a team that has little talent and horrible coaching is an easy overreaction.

I totally disagree with your thought that you wouldn't give up on Dunn to draft Smith. Dunn showed he's got chops defensively but if he can't play offense, he can't be a starting point guard. To be competitive, you need more than a starting point guard. You need an upper-echelon starting point guard. Is Dunn going to go from borderline unplayable to upper-echelon? Nothing he showed as a rookie (23 years old at that) gave any indication that he's got that in him.

Smith isn't a slam dunk and sure there's some risk - as there is with drafting any 19-year-old - but if the Wolves are going to lock themselves to their roster by the end of this summer, I'd like to see them take a swing on a guy who in 3 years could be a rockstar. Don't take a guy who fits now as a nice role player because its convenient and we're in a hurry to win 45 games and get to the playoffs. Give me the guy who when he's 23, fits with a 26-year-old Wiggins and a 25-year-old Towns to form the next legit "Big 3"

I think if Smith is there, he's got the best chance to represent that. I don't know if Isaac does. He feels like a guy who will fit nicely into a team environment but he might tap out at "good quality role player" - and I wouldn't necessarily be upset about picking Isaac. I'd take him if those PGs are off the board. But Smith to me has as much upside as any of the PGs in this draft and had the team not drafted Dunn a year ago, it'd be a no-brainer. My perspective is that it should be a no-brainer anyway because Dunn can be viewed as a player for this team - but they shouldn't just assume he's the "point guard of the future"

But would you take that swing instead of having Rubio? Although Rubio is still a working progress when it comes to his jump shot, he did have the highest point differential pre post all-star (8.9 to 16). Most of it was a result of LaVine's injury, but we finally got to see what Rubio could do. He is better than most players that people in this forum want over him (namely Derrick Rose (ugh)). It'll be interesting to see if Rubio keeps shooting once LaVine comes back.

You're right that Smith would fit in the timeline with Wiggins and Towns. But that is dependent on A LOT of things (Wiggins shooting more 3s (even though he has improved every year), less DeRozan mid-range 2s and driving more to use his freakish athleticism; Towns' feet becoming MUCH faster so he can catch up on D and being more confident in his 3). Smith in my mind would want the ball more in his hands and that might hinder the development of our 2 budding superstars. And don't forget Smith tore his ACL just under 2 years ago (apparently he has an extra tendon just like AP so it healed faster?) The way he plays, obviously I don't want anyone hurt but it begs the question...

Dunn clearly knows he still has work to do but he should know his role as a defender off the bench. I think his offense can come around eventually if he is given the opportunity. He certainly is not the PG of the future (Tyus might be ahead on that front) but I think Dunn can have a steady role on this team.

[derek360]

Surprised Bam's projected that low. That Kentucky team was hard to stop when they got him going. He'll definitely be a solid rotation big man for awhile

Bam is only 6'8" 3/4 (same as TJ Leaf, who can shoot 3s and put the ball on the floor, none of which Bam can do), catches lobs (we have Wiggins LaVine and Towns for that), rebounds wonderfully (but we have Towns for that, Dieng is a competent rebounder) and barely flashed a jumper (he made some but it didn't look good... I'll leave him open for ALL looks) He does have an NBA body, but he looks like Dwight Howard (literally) and we know how Dwight has turned out. You're right he was hard to stop in college, but he'll be predictable in the NBA (not to mention Bam has no game with his back to the basket except a baby hook and backing the guy down and dunking)

[Note30]

Surprised Bam's projected that low. That Kentucky team was hard to stop when they got him going. He'll definitely be a solid rotation big man for awhile

Bam is only 6'8" 3/4 (same as TJ Leaf, who can shoot 3s and put the ball on the floor, none of which Bam can do), catches lobs (we have Wiggins LaVine and Towns for that), rebounds wonderfully (but we have Towns for that, Dieng is a competent rebounder) and barely flashed a jumper (he made some but it didn't look good... I'll leave him open for ALL looks) He does have an NBA body, but he looks like Dwight Howard (literally) and we know how Dwight has turned out. You're right he was hard to stop in college, but he'll be predictable in the NBA (not to mention Bam has no game with his back to the basket except a baby hook and backing the guy down and dunking)

Dude the guy carried a team to the Finals in his prime. I'd take that anyday of the week. He got injured and is mentally soft, and never developed a game. That doesn't necessarily have to transition over to this guy.

[ace625214]

at "and we know how Dwight turned out." He won 3 straight DPoY awards, has a good chance to end his career in the top-10 for rebounding, and is a lock for the HoF. Other than his ego getting in the way of him becoming an unstoppable pick-and-roll center, he's had a fantastic career. If someone was guaranteed Dwight Howard's career he would go first in every draft.

[Worm Guts]

Surprised Bam's projected that low. That Kentucky team was hard to stop when they got him going. He'll definitely be a solid rotation big man for awhile

Bam is only 6'8" 3/4 (same as TJ Leaf, who can shoot 3s and put the ball on the floor, none of which Bam can do), catches lobs (we have Wiggins LaVine and Towns for that), rebounds wonderfully (but we have Towns for that, Dieng is a competent rebounder) and barely flashed a jumper (he made some but it didn't look good... I'll leave him open for ALL looks) He does have an NBA body, but he looks like Dwight Howard (literally) and we know how Dwight has turned out. You're right he was hard to stop in college, but he'll be predictable in the NBA (not to mention Bam has no game with his back to the basket except a baby hook and backing the guy down and dunking)

Rebounds wonderfully might be a bit of an exaggeration.

[Village Idiot]

I'm surprised Bam Adebayo isn't a guy you're discussing. He's strong enough to defend the post but quick enough to switch onto guards. Good help side shot blocker with much better awareness and anticipation than Dieng. He's a good shooter and ball handler but didn't get to show it in Lexington

He doesn't seem to be projected anywhere near our pick. Draft Express has him going 32.

True. He was #8 on DX's mock a year ago though so perceptions change and swing back and forth. I think we have a tendency to anchor our opinions on a players "value" based on where they are place on an "experts" mock. Remember though that sports journalists and websites sometimes aren't impartial and that agents know that paying a site a pittance or covering costs on a trip to some place is a cheap way to grease some wheels and get a player more favorable publicity than perhaps their client would get otherwise. I'm not an Adebayo fan or a T-Wolves fan but just think he'd be a good fit for you.

[Mattya]

I'm a fan to a lesser degree. I don't think his shot is all that reliable. He could develop a decent mid range jumper, but it won't go much further than that. I would rather grab some of these combo forward who might not be as good defensively against PFs, but are more capable to space the floor.