Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST)

[TaylorTag]

Contract aside, I have to think that Nowell has become a positive asset, coveted by a lot of teams in the league.

With his contract being friendly through next season—I believe we then can give him a one-year offer on the cheap and then he becomes a UFA or we can not offer him and then he becomes a RFA.

Either scenario, I can see Nowell pricing himself out. I’m not sure the Wolves can afford to a $15M SG when Ant will eventually start making the max.

I see two scenarios here. Either we roll with this essentially same squad next season and finally try to decide if this 3-some of Towns, D’Lo, and Ant work and are all worthy of max contracts.

If that’s the way we think it will play out, and there is a lot of evidence that KAT, D’Lo and Ant work well together, then why don’t we use Nowell as the trade piece that nets us that 4th guy.

There’s an argument to be made that this version of Nowell is the 4th most valuable player on our team—arguably above Vando.

Two things before I go further: one, I’m not sure I want to make any moves before the trade deadline as the team chemistry at this point is a difference maker we cannot take for granted. Two, Nowell’s minimal contract makes it hard to trade for us to get a great piece this season—unless we package a Taurean Prince (who seems like a great locker room presence).. So a trade will likely have to happen in the off-season when Prince and Beverly are off the books and we have some more room to bring in a $20M+ guy.

The second scenario this all plays out is that we experience some success this season, but we don’t commit to D’Lo as a max player and so we move on from D’Lo a year from now and use that space to give Nowell a sizable, yet sub-max contract to be our combo guard and hopefully have more cap space to shore up our roster and depth, or maybe even a 3rd max guy who plays a position of need if the new ownership group is willing to pay the luxury tax….

All I am really saying is that Nowell’s development is huge for our future prospects. We have options, including the opportunity to use Nowell as the foundation of a major trade.

Which team would be willing to pay for Nowell is somewhat hard to say, but it’s pretty clear that his skill set is something the entire league values.

What do you think we could get in return for Nowell? Or is it too early to speculate?

[winforlose]

Contract aside, I have to think that Nowell has become a positive asset, coveted by a lot of teams in the league.

With his contract being friendly through next season—I believe we then can give him a one-year offer on the cheap and then he becomes a UFA or we can not offer him and then he becomes a RFA.

Either scenario, I can see Nowell pricing himself out. I’m not sure the Wolves can afford to a $15M SG when Ant will eventually start making the max.

I see two scenarios here. Either we roll with this essentially same squad next season and finally try to decide if this 3-some of Towns, D’Lo, and Ant work and are all worthy of max contracts.

If that’s the way we think it will play out, and there is a lot of evidence that KAT, D’Lo and Ant work well together, then why don’t we use Nowell as the trade piece that nets us that 4th guy.

There’s an argument to be made that this version of Nowell is the 4th most valuable player on our team—arguably above Vando.

Two things before I go further: one, I’m not sure I want to make any moves before the trade deadline as the team chemistry at this point is a difference maker we cannot take for granted. Two, Nowell’s minimal contract makes it hard to trade for us to get a great piece this season—unless we package a Taurean Prince (who seems like a great locker room presence).. So a trade will likely have to happen in the off-season when Prince and Beverly are off the books and we have some more room to bring in a $20M+ guy.

The second scenario this all plays out is that we experience some success this season, but we don’t commit to D’Lo as a max player and so we move on from D’Lo a year from now and use that space to give Nowell a sizable, yet sub-max contract to be our combo guard and hopefully have more cap space to shore up our roster and depth, or maybe even a 3rd max guy who plays a position of need if the new ownership group is willing to pay the luxury tax….

All I am really saying is that Nowell’s development is huge for our future prospects. We have options, including the opportunity to use Nowell as the foundation of a major trade.

Which team would be willing to pay for Nowell is somewhat hard to say, but it’s pretty clear that his skill set is something the entire league values.

What do you think we could get in return for Nowell? Or is it too early to speculate?

I think it depends on a number of variables.

1. Can he stay healthy for the rest of the season.
2. Does his 3 point shooting stabilize or does it remain inconsistent.
3. How do his defensive numbers look by the end of the season.
4. Assuming someone gets hurt and he gets more minutes how does he look in those minutes.
5. After the trade deadline do we feature him more?

The other thing to remember is even if he is an URFA we have his bird rights. This gives us leverage for a sign and trade. I would consider moving him but only for an equivalent talent at another position.

[Mattya]

Grant left Denver, for a larger offensive role, the year after getting 8.9 FGAs a game. Moving Beasley in a deal for him would give him more shots than he received his last season in Denver. He would replace Bev in the starting lineup and would be great to keep in to boost the bench as well.

Beasley gets more shots because he plays most of his minutes with the bench, where he is often one of the best offensive options on the floor. If you replace Beasley with Grant and start him, Those 8.9 FGA’s aren’t all available.

Which is why you have Beverly take a reduced offensive role. Start Grant, taking Bevs starting role, and play Grant with the bench more to boost their production and give Grant the role he is looking for. Beasley doesn’t just take all his shots with starters all on the bench.

[winforlose]

Grant left Denver, for a larger offensive role, the year after getting 8.9 FGAs a game. Moving Beasley in a deal for him would give him more shots than he received his last season in Denver. He would replace Bev in the starting lineup and would be great to keep in to boost the bench as well.

Beasley gets more shots because he plays most of his minutes with the bench, where he is often one of the best offensive options on the floor. If you replace Beasley with Grant and start him, Those 8.9 FGA’s aren’t all available.

Which is why you have Beverly take a reduced offensive role. Start Grant, taking Bevs starting role, and play Grant with the bench more to boost their production and give Grant the role he is looking for. Beasley doesn’t just take all his shots with starters all on the bench.

Start of the first, start of the third, end of each half. These are the times when traditionally you see the starting lineups. But the rest of the time is staggered lineups. Having people who can score while KAT is on the bench is huge. If KAT plays 33 minutes then in that other 15 we need someone on the floor as our first option. Dlo and Nowell paired with another 20/10 player could be huge. Meanwhile, having another scorer with KAT, Ant, and Dlo also opens things up for everyone else. Beverly still gets shots and so does V8. Also, more rebounds means more possessions, which in turn means more FGA overall.

[Chello1]

The Pistons supposedly offered this package for Ben Simmons and were laughed at.....

The Pistons’ package of Grant, Saddiq Bey, Kelly Olynyk and a first-round pick, for example, was not met with much enthusiasm by Philadelphia brass, league sources told B/R.

[Klomp]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Guess he's not coming here lol he'll be 4th option over here.

This is exactly what I keep saying.

He left playoff Denver to go to a rotten Detroit team so he could be the star. Not just demanding to be a starter - he wants to be featured. A player like this is never going to be happy being the fourth option. And for the record, Ben Simmons said the same thing early last summer - he wants (wanted?) to be the feature player.

Appreciate Jared Vanderbilt. Do you think he sulks or doesn’t play hard when he doesn’t get enough touches?

I think this describes the biggest problem with multiple guys that could be a good fit for the Wolves. All three of Collins, Grant, and Turner want an offensive role that they just won't get on a decent playoff team. To some degree this even applies to Simmons who is a guy that should not have the ball much in a half court offense. I'm starting to believe that the best course of action for the Wolves at the trade deadline is to just move Prince (and a heavily protected 1st or some 2nds) for a competent PF with some size to come off the bench.

I think part of the problem is people (both players and fans) struggle to look at the situation outside the box.

To my knowledge, Simmons' beef has never been about his role. And even still, if he was here he wouldn't be relegated to simply a Vanderbilt role. Sure that'd be part of it. But there are also times where he would be asked and able to initiate the offense, either as the primary playmaker or from the wing. Someone (shrink?) talked recently about tighter rotations in the playoffs and matching skillsets, but another part of that is finding guys who fill multiple roles. Simmons does that in spades.

[Klomp]

The more pressing issue of why a Simmons deal will be difficult here is Philadelphia's desire to ship out Tobias Harris in a Ben Simmons deal. We just don't have the resources to do a deal like that. So unless there was a third team to take Harris for incentive (or us doing it ad Simmons going elsewhere), I don't see us involved in a Simmons deal under those 76ers parameters.

[Klomp]

Unrestricted free agency makes it a bit risky, but I wonder if a potential trade target might be Mitchell Robinson. UFA status plus current role might keep his trade value lower than his potential impact could be. Has a lot of the same traits as Jarred Vanderbilt but in a bigger body.

[IceManBK1]

who can we get for reid, beasley, okogie+1st for Myles Turner and Jeremy Lamb. Don't know if Turner is injured now. Jeremy Lamb is a better 6th man than Beasley. Turner will make reid redundant. And okogie is just not a threat on offense at all.

[minimus]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Kuzma for Prince, top10 protected 2022 first round pick

[shrink]

I think part of the problem is people (both players and fans) struggle to look at the situation outside the box.

To my knowledge, Simmons' beef has never been about his role. And even still, if he was here he wouldn't be relegated to simply a Vanderbilt role. Sure that'd be part of it. But there are also times where he would be asked and able to initiate the offense, either as the primary playmaker or from the wing. Someone (shrink?) talked recently about tighter rotations in the playoffs and matching skillsets, but another part of that is finding guys who fill multiple roles. Simmons does that in spades.

For at least a year before last year’s playoff disaster, Simmons has been rumored to be frustrated that the Sixers were being built around Embiid rather than himself. Early on his trade demands, he wanted to go to a team that was going to build around him, where he could be the star surrounded by shooters. I haven’t heard anything about that recently though - he initially said he wanted to go to “one of three West coast teams,” but lately the impression is that he would play for any of the 29 teams. Well, I should say, play “initially,” because if he gets frustrated again and wants to be traded, he certainly could pull this same crap again with his new team .. zero production on a max deal. And that team would have zero chance of trading his long deal if he did it twice. Franchise buster.

Also, the playoff rotation post I mentioned, was consolidating style for the playoffs, where bench players replicate the style of the starter they replace. Whether you love Simmons or hate him, anyone has to admit he is one of the most unique players in the NBA, and no one on our bench can go out there and play like Simmons.

[shrink]

who can we get for reid, beasley, okogie+1st for Myles Turner and Jeremy Lamb. Don't know if Turner is injured now. Jeremy Lamb is a better 6th man than Beasley. Turner will make reid redundant. And okogie is just not a threat on offense at all.

Turner has a stress reaction in his left foot. He will be reevaluated in two weeks, but big men with foot injuries is very risky. He could be out for the rest of the season, and he may have a chronic injury. We’ll have to wait a couple weeks to have a better idea.

That said, if Turner is going to be out for the season, his value will drop considerably. His deal is for $18 mil this season and the next, and he is extension eligible before the season begins. The Pacers may just wait until the summer to see how his rehab goes and trade him then, or they may want to remove that risk and trade him by the deadline. If he was on a discounted price (say, Expirings and Bolmaro), that might be a risk MIN should take. Even if he can’t help with this year’s playoffs, the Wolves won’t be a free agent destination, so I’d rather have our money tied up in high upside, high risk players than mediocre guys like Prince.

Ditto for Jonathan Isaac. If the price reflects the high injury risk (and team fans here rarely acknowledge a drop in value for risk), then I think MIN should listen closely.

[minimus]

I have a question. After today loss when Young exposed our bigs on perimeter AND fed ATL wings with lob passes, what type of player can be adequate candidate to improve our defense? I personally have doubts that Turner as starting С next to Towns can be a solution, because it Towns would spend more time guarding perimeter players which is not ideal. However, as backup C Turner could stop our bleeding playing against opponent bench.

Ideally I would replace Reid with defensive minded backup big, trade Prince/Okogie and picks for a big wing and find cheap PoA defender. I also doubt we can do all these steps before deadline.

[NebWolvesFan]

I have a question. After today loss when Young exposed our bigs on perimeter AND fed ATL wings with lob passes, what type of player can be adequate candidate to improve our defense? I personally have doubts that Turner as starting С next to Towns can be a solution, because it Towns would spend more time guarding perimeter players which is not ideal. However, as backup C Turner could stop our bleeding playing against opponent bench.

Ideally I would replace Reid with defensive minded backup big, trade Prince/Okogie and picks for a big wing and find cheap PoA defender. I also doubt we can do all these steps before deadline.

Minnesota runs the NBA version of the Tampa Two NFL defense. They want to get the ball out of PG hands and make the team throw a lot of passes. The idea is that more passes they throw, the better chance of getting a steal/turnover or forcing a team to take a bad shot late in the clock. The Wolves are putting faith in the fact that a team can't keep making passing without screwing up now and then. It's like when an NFL team forces a QB to make 8 straight passes to score a touchdown.

Young is too good of a passer. He's like that QB that can make those passes all day. Young finds the open player with ease and they hit open shots. Even if you get up on him and force away from the three-point line, he will hit that shot. As we have seen in the two games, he has no problem navigating Minnesota's scramble defense.

My point is you can't get a player to help. You would have to play a different kind of defense. Luckily for the Wolves, they don't have to face Young again this season.

[winforlose]

I have a question. After today loss when Young exposed our bigs on perimeter AND fed ATL wings with lob passes, what type of player can be adequate candidate to improve our defense? I personally have doubts that Turner as starting С next to Towns can be a solution, because it Towns would spend more time guarding perimeter players which is not ideal. However, as backup C Turner could stop our bleeding playing against opponent bench.

Ideally I would replace Reid with defensive minded backup big, trade Prince/Okogie and picks for a big wing and find cheap PoA defender. I also doubt we can do all these steps before deadline.

Minnesota runs the NBA version of the Tampa Two NFL defense. They want to get the ball out of PG hands and make the team throw a lot of passes. The idea is that more passes they throw, the better chance of getting a steal/turnover or forcing a team to take a bad shot late in the clock. The Wolves are putting faith in the fact that a team can't keep making passing without screwing up now and then. It's like when an NFL team forces a QB to make 8 straight passes to score a touchdown.

Young is too good of a passer. He's like that QB that can make those passes all day. Young finds the open player with ease and they hit open shots. Even if you get up on him and force away from the three-point line, he will hit that shot. As we have seen in the two games, he has no problem navigating Minnesota's scramble defense.

My point is you can't get a player to help. You would have to play a different kind of defense. Luckily for the Wolves, they don't have to face Young again this season.

Last night proved my point even more. If KAT is away from the paint then someone else needs to defend it. How many open dunks, and ones, and open corner 3s do we need to give up before we adjust the scheme. I love Finch, but his scheme is broken and he won’t fix it. Part of the problem is closing out on bad shooters. We need to do what other teams do to the wolves and give the low percentage shooters the uncontested shots. Man do we need to trade for size. Also we need to figure out how to do something about the refs. Maybe a class action lawsuit by sports bettors against the NBA. Maybe some kind of petition that no NBA franchises or professional sports franchises can play in a city without oversight similar to how the UFC has oversight. This isn’t even a secret, refs give established players different calls than young players. Young teams are told to pay their dues. Bias is rampant and bias equals corruption when real money is at stake.

[minimus]

I have a question. After today loss when Young exposed our bigs on perimeter AND fed ATL wings with lob passes, what type of player can be adequate candidate to improve our defense? I personally have doubts that Turner as starting С next to Towns can be a solution, because it Towns would spend more time guarding perimeter players which is not ideal. However, as backup C Turner could stop our bleeding playing against opponent bench.

Ideally I would replace Reid with defensive minded backup big, trade Prince/Okogie and picks for a big wing and find cheap PoA defender. I also doubt we can do all these steps before deadline.

Minnesota runs the NBA version of the Tampa Two NFL defense. They want to get the ball out of PG hands and make the team throw a lot of passes. The idea is that more passes they throw, the better chance of getting a steal/turnover or forcing a team to take a bad shot late in the clock. The Wolves are putting faith in the fact that a team can't keep making passing without screwing up now and then. It's like when an NFL team forces a QB to make 8 straight passes to score a touchdown.

Young is too good of a passer. He's like that QB that can make those passes all day. Young finds the open player with ease and they hit open shots. Even if you get up on him and force away from the three-point line, he will hit that shot. As we have seen in the two games, he has no problem navigating Minnesota's scramble defense.

My point is you can't get a player to help. You would have to play a different kind of defense. Luckily for the Wolves, they don't have to face Young again this season.

Thank you for sharing! A few things that come to mind: first, I agree that versatility is a main trait of a good defense. It means that players should be able to adopt and implement different defensive schemes on the floor. See example of GSW and box-and-1 against Young.

https://youtu.be/R0yfgaj8z0E

Second, we need more two-way players. I prefer to find a low profile young player who can be PoA defender and develop him just like GSW did with Payton II. I also think that we need to try to get RoCo, who knows how to play as low man. This type of mobile combo forward 6'8-6'9 with 7' wingspan are extremely valuable in our system.

Lastly, If we speak about type of defensive big, who can thrive in our system I immediately think about Bam Adebayo. He is strong, mobile and coordinated, he is basically and ovesized PF with SF agility.

Read on Twitter

?

[moss_is_1]

What about trying to get Smart from Boston? I know Bev plays that role, but Smart is significantly younger and Beverly is on an expiring deal.

Roco would be real nice depending on the price. I'd love to have him be able to teach McDaniels and Vando more on that side of the ball.

[minimus]

What about trying to get Smart from Boston? I know Bev plays that role, but Smart is significantly younger and Beverly is on an expiring deal.

Roco would be real nice depending on the price. I'd love to have him be able to teach McDaniels and Vando more on that side of the ball.

Yes, please! Smart for Beasley and two heavily protected FRPs would make this team so much interesting in defense. Add RoCo and this will be my favorite team ever.

[minimus]

https://youtu.be/yEvmD4ogivo

MIN get Kenrich Willams
ATL get Okogie
OKC get Knox


This is low-key trade but it gives us a really high IQ player and add some financial flexibility either to sign someone or make a trade. I'd sign someone like Kris Dunn for vetmin. I don't know much about his last injury but if he can 100% recover he will a very dangerous weapon with current rules which allows more contact.

[Klomp]

Also, the playoff rotation post I mentioned, was consolidating style for the playoffs, where bench players replicate the style of the starter they replace. Whether you love Simmons or hate him, anyone has to admit he is one of the most unique players in the NBA, and no one on our bench can go out there and play like Simmons.

Again, you're not looking outside of the box. The point isn't to replicate every quality. That's impossible, especially when you start talking about star players. No bench player is able to replicate the entire package of LeBron James, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant or Shaquille O'Neal. But you find the parts of his game that are most important and do your best to replicate those pieces.

And I'm also looking less at guys playing like Simmons, but rather Simmons playing like others. When Russell goes to the bench, Simmons can slot in at the primary PG role. When Edwards goes to the bench, Simmons can slot in as a playmaker on the wing. No, he doesn't do everything like those guys (namely shooting), but he's able to attack as a PG or wing in a different way. Does McLaughlin replace everything Russell does? Does Reid replicate everything Towns does? No. It doesn't make them bad players, it just means the star player cannot be replaced.