2017 Draft Thread

[Midw35t]

One thing I will say is these Finals tell me we still need maximum upside added to the roster if we can. Most of the guys we've been talking about have higher floors but lower ceilings.

Couldn't agree more, and that is why I loved that quote from Thibs for two reasons a) because the obvious BPA is the best way to go and b) he knows it is very likely a pg is the BPA on the board and he is driving up the price to get the pick from us by saying we will go BPA regardless of position.

[fattymcgee]

Seems Kentucky bigs always underperform relative to NBA talent. I'm sure BAM will be a solid get for a team in the teens.

This has got to be saracasm.
KAT, The Brow, DMC.

No. I think it's pretty clear they under performed while at Kentucky despite their lofty draft statuses.

Sorry, I interpreted your post differently. I thought you were saying they underperformed in the NBA.

[Note30]

This has got to be saracasm.
KAT, The Brow, DMC.

No. I think it's pretty clear they under performed while at Kentucky despite their lofty draft statuses.

Sorry, I interpreted your post differently. I thought you were saying they underperformed in the NBA.

Its almost as if Kentuckys head coach stacks his roster with insane amount of .... oh wait.

[Biggsohnasty]

Adebayo would be a good fit with the Wolves and I'd like him if they somehow ended up with a pick in the 18-25 range. Think Tristan Thompson is a decent comparison for him as a big who is just going to hustle, clean up trash around the rim and play with some physicality. Not sure how fluid he is when it comes to defending in space but I like him as a role player at the next level.

[theGreatRC]

16 starting PGs averaged more PPG than him, but how many averaged more assists/steals/rebounds. If you measure Ricky by his scoring, of course it's going to look ugly, but if he can get even just a decent jumper to go along with his great qualities as a PG, his overall impact could not be matched by many PGs in the league

23 PGs averaged more ppg than him for the season. The 16 was just after the all-star break, when he was playing out of his mind.

10 averaged more rebounds (Westbrook, Harden, Rondo, Payton, Paul, Lillard, Bledsoe, Lowry, Curry, Wall)
4 averaged more assists (Harden, Wall, Westbrook, Paul)
3 averaged more steals (Wall, Paul, Curry)

Even at his absolute best (scoring 16-20 ppg over an entire season), he probably wouldn't be considered above Harden, Westbrook, Curry, Wall, Irving, Lillard. So at best, he'd be maybe 7th best PG. And we're just talking about him trying to become at worst an average starting PG in the scoring department, something that hasn't happened in his 6 seasons so far. But arguably most people would probably take another 5 or so more PGs over him, keeping him in the average PG department.

I've started to think recently that Rubio was born in the wrong decade. Twenty years ago, he'd be a great starting PG. But the game has changed so much since the 90s, and it's very beneficial to have a PG who can take advantage of a good matchup if a post player gets switched on him, for example.

Scoring does matter. As Wolves fans, we've gotten so used to our starting PG be a scoring nonfactor, that we try to say guys like Westbrook, Harden, Curry, Wall, Irving, Lillard, etc. really aren't that good when that couldn't be further from the truth. We all act like we've secretly got this amazing talent but yet we're going on how many years without making the playoffs? It's like the game has passed us by and we're so stuck on what used to be that we aren't catching up with the times. If the trend continues, how much more can we take before guys just get sick of losing and start demanding trades? We need to win. What we've been doing hasn't worked. Maybe it's time to try something different.

That's not really fair to Ricky to put his scoring problems as reasons why we haven't gotten anywhere. Irving led his team NOWHERE despite being arguably the 2nd best scoring PG until he had the best player in the league and a top PF join him. Scoring does matter, but quality of team matters more. Plus, Ricky was hurt his first year, came back from the ACL tear his second year and had the worst ankle sprain of his career in his 4th year. I mean, just look at what we've been through with all of our different starters since Ricky was a rookie:

Starters year by year:

Ricky's first year (lockout year & ACL tear year. Started 31 games and got hurt)

PG - Luke Ridnour
SG - Wes Johnson
SF - Derrick Williams
PF - Kevin Love
C - Nikola Pekovic

Ricky's second year (Coming back from his ACL tear)

Luke Ridnour (started all 82 between PG&SG)
After Ricky came back. Luke saw time at starting SG.
Andrei Kirilenko (played 64 games)
Kevin Love (Played 18 games. This was the broken hand year. Derrick Williams started after)
Nikola Pekovic (62 games)

Ricky's third year (The year Ricky comes back 100% healthy after the ACL) This is also the year we were projected to win 45+ games and make the playoffs

Ricky Rubio (Played all 82 games)
Kevin Martin (Played 68 games)
Corey Brewer (Played 81 games)
Kevin Love (Played 81 games)
Nikola Pekovic (Played 54 games. Beginning of the nagging foot injuries)

We won 40 games and finished 10th behind PHX & DAL. Almost every Western playoff team won 50+ games that year (DAL missed 50 by 1 win)

Ricky's fourth year This was probably our worst injury plagued year in our history. It's the season where Lorenzo Brown played all but 1 second against Cleveland after we signed him & when we signed Sean Kilpatrick since he was close to the arena LOL

Ricky Rubio (Worst ankle sprain EVER! Was out most of the year)
Kevin Martin (Broke his wrist against New York)
Andrew Wiggins (Played all 82. Was a rookie)
Thaddeus Young (Was away during a point in the season due to his mother's death)
Nikola Pekovic/Ronny Turiaf/Justin Hamilton/Radulijca (We honestly had bad luck with center injuries this year)

Ricky's fifth year

Ricky Rubio
Andrew Wiggins
Tayshaun Prince
Kevin Garnett
Karl Anthony Towns

After the all-star break we started Ricky/Zach/Wigg/Gorgui/KAT, which got everyone super hyped for this season since we started to play really well.

Ricky's sixth year(this year)

Ricky Rubio
Zach Lavine/Andrew Wiggins
Andrew Wiggins/Brandon Rush
Gorgui Dieng
Karl Anthony Towns

I won't say much because we already know what happened.

Just because Ricky is the constant name that pops up in those starting lineups, does not mean he is the problem. In the years where he played the majority of the games, our offense is in the top half of the league. Our problem has always been defense. Injuries sucked too. If Ricky is to be blamed for anything, it's actually his injuries & the fact he's missed a lot of games in six year career.

Look, i'm all for trading Ricky if it means we can upgrade our starting PG. What scares me is us making a lateral move for a player that doesn't make us better, it just brings in a fresh new face so people are like "Ooh new PG, that solves our problems!"

Also, his value is low so it's unlikely we're getting someone with similar/better production since opposing GMs will most likely offer trash.

The last thing i'm afraid of is Dunn or Tyus as our starting PG if we can't get one in return for a Ricky trade or draft a stud PG that kills it right out the gate.

What we've been doing hasn't worked. Maybe it's time to try something different.

We've had 3 coaches in 3 years. All different styles, plays, philosophies. We need to let these guys grow together & sprinkle in a few supporting pieces. It's only been two years since KAT has been in the league, 3 years for Zach & Wigg. All of them have learned Thibs system in under a year..we need to be patient. You of all people should know that since you preached it this year when we were losing games.

[derek360]

Surprised Bam's projected that low. That Kentucky team was hard to stop when they got him going. He'll definitely be a solid rotation big man for awhile

Bam is only 6'8" 3/4 (same as TJ Leaf, who can shoot 3s and put the ball on the floor, none of which Bam can do), catches lobs (we have Wiggins LaVine and Towns for that), rebounds wonderfully (but we have Towns for that, Dieng is a competent rebounder) and barely flashed a jumper (he made some but it didn't look good... I'll leave him open for ALL looks) He does have an NBA body, but he looks like Dwight Howard (literally) and we know how Dwight has turned out. You're right he was hard to stop in college, but he'll be predictable in the NBA (not to mention Bam has no game with his back to the basket except a baby hook and backing the guy down and dunking)

Dude the guy carried a team to the Finals in his prime. I'd take that anyday of the week. He got injured and is mentally soft, and never developed a game. That doesn't necessarily have to transition over to this guy.

Fair enough. Dude was also 3 inches taller than Bam and that makes a big difference, especially if he can't stretch the floor (which Bam can't). I just don't see Adebayo making an impact on the T-Wolves (but he could be a good rotation guy elsewhere) Also, disappeared in games (vs. UCLA in tourney, vs. Tennessee, Florida)

[Klomp]

Ricky's fifth year

Ricky Rubio
Andrew Wiggins
Tayshaun Prince
Kevin Garnett
Karl Anthony Towns

After the all-star break we started Ricky/Zach/Wigg/Gorgui/KAT, which got everyone super hyped for this season since we started to play really well.

Ricky's sixth year(this year)

Ricky Rubio
Zach Lavine/Andrew Wiggins
Andrew Wiggins/Brandon Rush
Gorgui Dieng
Karl Anthony Towns

I won't say much because we already know what happened.

Just because Ricky is the constant name that pops up in those starting lineups, does not mean he is the problem. In the years where he played the majority of the games, our offense is in the top half of the league. Our problem has always been defense. Injuries sucked too. If Ricky is to be blamed for anything, it's actually his injuries & the fact he's missed a lot of games in six year career.

Look, i'm all for trading Ricky if it means we can upgrade our starting PG. What scares me is us making a lateral move for a player that doesn't make us better, it just brings in a fresh new face so people are like "Ooh new PG, that solves our problems!"

Also, his value is low so it's unlikely we're getting someone with similar/better production since opposing GMs will most likely offer trash.

I'm not concerned about what happened the first four years. Like you said with Kyrie, the quality of the team matters. Most would agree that the teams the last two years have been talented. And while I understand the need to be patient with the youngsters, I still think we could've been better than we were.

Everyone points to the defense as the only culprit for the team's struggles, but improvements on offense can also make up for defensive lapses. People like to talk about all the third and fourth quarter collapses and blame it on the defense. But when a team goes into the 4th quarter up by 7 and only scores 11 points (4/6 at POR), that's not the defense's fault. That's just one example. The defense absolutely needs to be better, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking there's absolutely nothing wrong with the offense.

I've never believed that getting a new PG would solve all our problems. But I do think it can make a difference. Obviously it has to be a move that makes sense, both now and going forward. But if a lateral move at PG helps us upgrade another position, why shouldn't we consider that?

Trading him for a veteran PG probably isn't the correct value. But what could work is by using a Rubio trade to fill a need elsewhere, which frees us up to maybe take a PG in a loaded draft at the position. If we're stubborn about not moving Rubio, that could eliminate that option and we try to fill another need with potentially a lesser player. That's not okay to me. I like Rubio as a player, but I'm not so attached to him that I wouldn't trade him in the right deal.

The last thing i'm afraid of is Dunn or Tyus as our starting PG if we can't get one in return for a Ricky trade or draft a stud PG that kills it right out the gate.

I wouldn't deal him without a replacement plan in place. I'm also not calling him off-limits.

We've had 3 coaches in 3 years. All different styles, plays, philosophies. We need to let these guys grow together & sprinkle in a few supporting pieces. It's only been two years since KAT has been in the league, 3 years for Zach & Wigg. All of them have learned Thibs system in under a year..we need to be patient. You of all people should know that since you preached it this year when we were losing games.

I am patient. I have been patient for 13 years. But patient doesn't mean refusing to trade a player. Just because Rubio might not be the biggest problem doesn't mean trading him couldn't be part of the solution. I'm keeping all avenues open.

[vtime]

Since Wiggins and Towns have max deals coming you don't want Lavine to be a 3rd max guy, would you guys consider sending Lavine to Philly for # 3 and Dario Saric?

[moss_is_1]

Since Wiggins and Towns have max deals coming you don't want Lavine to be a 3rd max guy, would you guys consider sending Lavine to Philly for # 3 and Dario Saric?

easily. No way Philly would touch that. They wouldn't even do it without Saric, IMO.

[rugbyrugger23]

Since Wiggins and Towns have max deals coming you don't want Lavine to be a 3rd max guy, would you guys consider sending Lavine to Philly for # 3 and Dario Saric?

That trade ha been discussed many times. Well the actual trade is LaVine + 7 for 3 + Saric + other small asset (TLC or ?). And if you (global you) are a person who thinks Wolves need a defensive SF and shooting PF, that is perfect trade.

[Crazy-Canuck]

Yeah, no way you we get saric and 3 for lavine. Im not even sure wed get saric and 3 for wiggins.

[derek360]

Do any of you think Zach or John Collins would be good picks if Isaacs isn't there?

John Collins is a dinosaur in the modern NBA. He can't stretch the floor, can't defend in space, and doesn't protect the rim. I probably wouldn't take him in the first round.


Zach Collins is a more intriguing long term prospect. He has shown range. He's shown some versatility defensively. He's scrappy. But he just looks like a kid right now and I have a hard time seeing him being an impact player during his 4-year rookie contract.

Did you see both Duke games? John Collins held the Duke frontcourt (Tatum, Jefferson, Giles and Bolden) to 20 points combined in the first game and had almost as many as Tatum and Jefferson in the second (35 combined and 31 for John himself) and stretched the floor (shot over 70% in both Duke games and 62% on the season on 11 FGAs/game (although they weren't 3s) and kept them in both games (albeit they lost both). Not to mention he had as many rebounds as the Duke starting frontcourt in both games. He also averaged almost 2 blocks a game (1.6).

The hype train of Zach Collins is crazy right now off his one big performance. I disagree. I think he'll be an impact player for some team (some saying the T-Wolves but I highly doubt Thibs will draft him; I could see him with Denver even though they have Plumlee, will give Jokic the defensive presence Jokic is not)

[Worm Guts]

Duke scored 85 and 99 points in those games. I'm not sure I'm willing to concede that Collins was shutting people down. That's not his reputation.
His offensive and rebounding numbers are impressive though.

[derek360]

Duke scored 85 and 99 points in those games. I'm not sure I'm willing to concede that Collins was shutting people down. That's not his reputation.
His offensive and rebounding numbers are impressive though.

fair enough. No one in college plays really good (if any) defense as it is. Kennard went crazy in the 2nd half of the first game and no defense was played in the 2nd... Just wanted to make the point that John Collins is not a dinosaur and will be a great player for an NBA team.

[HitmanCapone]

Do any of you think Zach or John Collins would be good picks if Isaacs isn't there?

I want John Collins on this team but only in that 15-20(+) range

[Klomp]

I didn't realize John has these ups

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[Krapinsky]

Latest DX mock has Isaac going 6 and Wolves taking Markannen over Monk, Smith.

[Nick K]

Do any of you think Zach or John Collins would be good picks if Isaacs isn't there?

John Collins is a dinosaur in the modern NBA. He can't stretch the floor, can't defend in space, and doesn't protect the rim. I probably wouldn't take him in the first round.


Zach Collins is a more intriguing long term prospect. He has shown range. He's shown some versatility defensively. He's scrappy. But he just looks like a kid right now and I have a hard time seeing him being an impact player during his 4-year rookie contract.

Thanks for responding. I appreciate your point of view. I totally agree with some of your assessments while I do disagree with some. Defense is a problem especially on the perimeter but he can defend inside and rebounds like crazy on both sides. His offensive game close to the basket is out of this world. Best I've seen in a long time. We don't need an outside game from him next to Towns. He'll block out and get the put- backs. He does need to improve in some areas for sure but I think he'll be a very good pro. I love his PF fit next to Towns.

[karch34]

I think there are a lot of potential storylines and possible fits in the top 10 that will make draft night very interesting.

-The intrigue starts with Philadelphia. A number of different ways they could go.
-Sacramento could go a few ways with both of their picks. How comfortable are they with the PG depth? Is there someone they can't pass up at 5? I wouldn't rule out them taking Markkanen, even at 5. Isaac is in play too
-Not a lot of talk about No. 6, but I think that's a potential destination for Isaac. He and Gordon could make a potent forward duo.
-People wonder if Thibs talking about the PG depth could be a smokescreen. At first I thought that was crazy, but it makes sense. It creates some doubt if Sacramento was banking on a certain player falling to 10, maybe they'd have to take him at 5. And maybe that's what Thibs wants, so his true target falls to 7. Or maybe he doesn't even make a pick?
-Have seen a few names in connection with the Knicks at 8. While probably unpopular at first for the fans, I wonder if Ntilikina makes sense for that team. If they're still running triangle sets, he's got one of the better skill sets for that position of the PGs in this draft.

Agree on all this. One other thing is while it would seem a no brainier that Suns take Jackson at 4 if he's there, I'm hearing media buzz that they think Isaac is a very good fit.

[vagelis]

Duke scored 85 and 99 points in those games. I'm not sure I'm willing to concede that Collins was shutting people down. That's not his reputation.
His offensive and rebounding numbers are impressive though.

fair enough. No one in college plays really good (if any) defense as it is. Kennard went crazy in the 2nd half of the first game and no defense was played in the 2nd... Just wanted to make the point that John Collins is not a dinosaur and will be a great player for an NBA team.

John Collins is a very mobile big guy and he seems to combine strength,athleticism and toughness which in my opinion will be very helpful for the Wolves.
He reminds me Marquesse Chriss but I think Collins could be a little better prospect because he seems stronger and better scorer than Chriss.
I wouldn't draft Collins with the 7th pick because there are some better options with that pick but maybe we could make a trade for him.