Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST)

[moonpie]

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[winforlose]

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Not sure he has much left in the tank. Maybe as a trade exemption salary dump. I wouldn’t offer literally any assets at all. The alternative is wait and see if he is available on the buyout market.

[theGreatRC]

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Id rather sign Demarcus Cousins if Millsap is the option

[moss_is_1]

I'll happily trade them Layman.

[winforlose]

I'll happily trade them Layman.

His money plus JO gets us Theis, who is younger, better, and long term, (although a little overpaid for a backup. He makes around 9mil per year, I would prefer 6-7 for what he offers.)

[moss_is_1]

I'll happily trade them Layman.

His money plus JO gets us Theis, who is younger, better, and long term, (although a little overpaid for a backup. He makes around 9mil per year, I would prefer 6-7 for what he offers.)

Really wouldn't want to commit longterm money to Theis without incentive. He's fine, but he's pretty much just a center and he's just not someone who moves the needle enough for me. I think you can get most of his production from a minimum contract guy.

[winforlose]

I'll happily trade them Layman.

His money plus JO gets us Theis, who is younger, better, and long term, (although a little overpaid for a backup. He makes around 9mil per year, I would prefer 6-7 for what he offers.)

Really wouldn't want to commit longterm money to Theis without incentive. He's fine, but he's pretty much just a center and he's just not someone who moves the needle enough for me. I think you can get most of his production from a minimum contract guy.

We tried that with Ed Davis, didn’t work. Greg Monroe had good moments, but he wasn’t a long term solution either. Theis PNR value and defensive toughness make him worth it to me. Again, I wish he was paid less, but worst case scenario we can always move him again. His last year is a team option as well.

[minimus]

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MIN get Kenrich Willams
ATL get Okogie
OKC get Knox

This is low-key trade but it gives us a really high IQ player and add some financial flexibility either to sign someone or make a trade. I'd sign someone like Kris Dunn for vetmin. I don't know much about his last injury but if he can 100% recover he will a very dangerous weapon with current rules which allows more contact.

Combining latest rumours:

First trade:
MIN get Kenrich Williams
ATL get Okogie
OKC get Knox, Layman, MIN late 2022 SRP

Why for ATL: get PoA defender, bust defense
Why for OKC: get talented prospect

Second trade:
MIN get Paul Millsap
BRO get cap relief

Third trade:
MIN get Smart
BOS get Beasley and two lottery protected FRPs

Why for BOS: get C&S shooter. They reportedly want to get Hield, we can offer Beasley who is younger, cheaper

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Sign DMC to vetmin

KAT/Reid/DMC + Knight
Vando/Millsap/Prince
Edwards/MCD/Williams
Beverley/Smart/Bolmaro
DLo/Nowell/JMac

Why I like this scenario. I understand that we want big time move. But this scenario offers multiple, low profile, but doable trades who can improve greatly our depth, while addressing all our needs.

DMC - size, experience
Williams - big wing with high IQ, shoots 38.2% from 3pt
Smart - elite PoA defender
Millsap - experience, played the same x-out defensive scheme in DEN

Make play-in run Next offseason, re-sign Nowell, let Prince walk, re-sign Pat Beverley to team friendly extension, Beverley has been pretty valuable for our team identity, but he is also very injury prone. With Smart we would be more "safe" in case Pat wants more money than we can afford. I doubt we can keep DMC and Millsap, but if we make it and win play-in tournament it might be a good case for MIN as FA destination.

KAT/Reid/DMC + Knight
Vando/Millsap/Prince
Edwards/MCD/Williams
Beverley/Smart/Bolmaro
DLo/Nowell/JMac

[Neeva]

Two frps for smart ? Hell no!

[minimus]

Two frps for smart ? Hell no!

One lottery protected FRP and one SRP?

[minimus]

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[winforlose]

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His name is McKinley Wright. He spends his time between Iowa and the bench. His G league numbers look good, his defense was next level in the summer league, and we will never know how his skills translate until we give him some run.

On a side note, I have a question. A lot of teams are asking for young players with upside as part of trade packages. Assuming we don’t want MCD or Nowell on the table and Ant is 100% out of the question, then that leaves Naz, Leo, and JMAC. I think everyone except Jed will agree that JMAC is basically an afterthought. The only reason any team takes him is salary matching and they either stuff him end of bench or waive him. Which begs the question, what is the value of Naz and what is the value of Leo?

I think Naz would be starting center on the Lakers, Raptors, maybe the Pistons, probably OKC, the Blazers, and maybe the Spurs. I am sure there are others, but my point is Naz has value.

Leo is more of a wild card. His Euro and G league numbers suggest talent. His defense is probably going to be above average when given minutes. His offense really hasn’t been seen in his limited opportunities with us. I don’t know how much his value has decreased this season but I would say it definitely has.

I am curious what you guys think.

[shrink]

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Third trade:
MIN get Smart
BOS get Beasley and two lottery protected FRPs

Why for BOS: get C&S shooter. They reportedly want to get Hield, we can offer Beasley who is younger, cheaper

I tend to look at players longer term, so I think Beasley is a better fit in BOS than Hield on his big contract, so I think the Celtics listen

I like Smart of course, but I can’t imagine using two 1st rounders for a bench player. He may be better than Beverley, but Pat’s team impact makes him our starter for as many games as he can handle. I also expect us to re-sign Beverley this summer, so Smart’s salary for the next four years has less value to us than to a team where he would be the starter. ($16,607,142 $18,583,713 $19,960,285 $21,336,856)

[shrink]

His money plus JO gets us Theis, who is younger, better, and long term, (although a little overpaid for a backup. He makes around 9mil per year, I would prefer 6-7 for what he offers.)

Really wouldn't want to commit longterm money to Theis without incentive. He's fine, but he's pretty much just a center and he's just not someone who moves the needle enough for me. I think you can get most of his production from a minimum contract guy.

We tried that with Ed Davis, didn’t work. Greg Monroe had good moments, but he wasn’t a long term solution either. Theis PNR value and defensive toughness make him worth it to me. Again, I wish he was paid less, but worst case scenario we can always move him again. His last year is a team option as well.

I like Theis and his fit here, but I agree that he is very expensive and a longterm commitment at a position where most teams go cheap. Trading for Theis virtually guarantees Naz is gone .. we couldn’t pay KAT, Theis and Naz.

[brutalitops]

I dont mind Young/Millsap as a stop gap to help rebounding and size

[winforlose]

Really wouldn't want to commit longterm money to Theis without incentive. He's fine, but he's pretty much just a center and he's just not someone who moves the needle enough for me. I think you can get most of his production from a minimum contract guy.

We tried that with Ed Davis, didn’t work. Greg Monroe had good moments, but he wasn’t a long term solution either. Theis PNR value and defensive toughness make him worth it to me. Again, I wish he was paid less, but worst case scenario we can always move him again. His last year is a team option as well.

I like Theis and his fit here, but I agree that he is very expensive and a longterm commitment at a position where most teams go cheap. Trading for Theis virtually guarantees Naz is gone .. we couldn’t pay KAT, Theis and Naz.

I have been thinking about Naz place with the team more and more lately. The truth seems to be that he needs minutes to achieve his true potential. Keeping him around for the few games when KAT is out isn’t the best game plan. Odds are someone else will offer money we cannot match to either be a starter or a part of 3 man rotation where he gets more minutes. Being buried behind a top 3 center is probably the worst thing for him. At the same time, we need a solid backup C. Theis may be too expensive, but either way Naz needs to be moved as part of a bigger deal.

[shrink]

We tried that with Ed Davis, didn’t work. Greg Monroe had good moments, but he wasn’t a long term solution either. Theis PNR value and defensive toughness make him worth it to me. Again, I wish he was paid less, but worst case scenario we can always move him again. His last year is a team option as well.

I like Theis and his fit here, but I agree that he is very expensive and a longterm commitment at a position where most teams go cheap. Trading for Theis virtually guarantees Naz is gone .. we couldn’t pay KAT, Theis and Naz.

I have been thinking about Naz place with the team more and more lately. The truth seems to be that he needs minutes to achieve his true potential. Keeping him around for the few games when KAT is out isn’t the best game plan. Odds are someone else will offer money we cannot match to either be a starter or a part of 3 man rotation where he gets more minutes. Being buried behind a top 3 center is probably the worst thing for him. At the same time, we need a solid backup C. Theis may be too expensive, but either way Naz needs to be moved as part of a bigger deal.

Good post, and this is quite possible. In general, his production has been suppressed by lack of minutes, and that will reduce off-season offers from teams that don’t want to gamble. Will they be reduced enough that we wouldn’t match, if we allow him to become an RFA this summer? Or do we risk it, hoping to sign him to a positive deal that we could use as a trade asset - as often happens with contracts signed in this manner?

I would roll those dice if the pre-deadline deal didn’t return a pick or player with non-lotto 1st value. Naz can be a better contributor in the playoffs, working as a poor-man’s KAT and allowing us to run our standard sets with our 5 spreading the floor, and that has value. We aren’t winning a championship, but a good showing in the playoffs could change some minds about this franchise.

[winforlose]

I like Theis and his fit here, but I agree that he is very expensive and a longterm commitment at a position where most teams go cheap. Trading for Theis virtually guarantees Naz is gone .. we couldn’t pay KAT, Theis and Naz.

I have been thinking about Naz place with the team more and more lately. The truth seems to be that he needs minutes to achieve his true potential. Keeping him around for the few games when KAT is out isn’t the best game plan. Odds are someone else will offer money we cannot match to either be a starter or a part of 3 man rotation where he gets more minutes. Being buried behind a top 3 center is probably the worst thing for him. At the same time, we need a solid backup C. Theis may be too expensive, but either way Naz needs to be moved as part of a bigger deal.

Good post, and this is quite possible. In general, his production has been suppressed by lack of minutes, and that will reduce off-season offers from teams that don’t want to gamble. Will they be reduced enough that we wouldn’t match, if we allow him to become an RFA this summer? Or do we risk it, hoping to sign him to a positive deal that we could use as a trade asset - as often happens with contracts signed in this manner?

I would roll those dice if the pre-deadline deal didn’t return a pick or player with non-lotto 1st value. Naz can be a better contributor in the playoffs, working as a poor-man’s KAT and allowing us to run our standard sets with our 5 spreading the floor, and that has value. We aren’t winning a championship, but a good showing in the playoffs could change some minds about this franchise.

I am a firm believer in selling high, but as an RFA plenty of young rebuilding teams might take a shot on him. OKC comes to mind, Portland, Detroit, ect… We need to pay Nowell and probably Dlo, and Bev, and maybe JO. Not to mention needing money lying around to pay KAT, and then eventually max Ant (a couple years down the road, but is on the balance sheet under plan ahead.) The problem with young teams is that the players start to command money as they develop. We have a ton of that happening in the next few years and someone has to go. Naz gets the fewest minutes, and in theory is the easiest to replace (Because KAT is not injury prone and plays a ton of minutes.) I still think Naz gets us Turner if we want him.

[shrink]

I have been thinking about Naz place with the team more and more lately. The truth seems to be that he needs minutes to achieve his true potential. Keeping him around for the few games when KAT is out isn’t the best game plan. Odds are someone else will offer money we cannot match to either be a starter or a part of 3 man rotation where he gets more minutes. Being buried behind a top 3 center is probably the worst thing for him. At the same time, we need a solid backup C. Theis may be too expensive, but either way Naz needs to be moved as part of a bigger deal.

Good post, and this is quite possible. In general, his production has been suppressed by lack of minutes, and that will reduce off-season offers from teams that don’t want to gamble. Will they be reduced enough that we wouldn’t match, if we allow him to become an RFA this summer? Or do we risk it, hoping to sign him to a positive deal that we could use as a trade asset - as often happens with contracts signed in this manner?

I would roll those dice if the pre-deadline deal didn’t return a pick or player with non-lotto 1st value. Naz can be a better contributor in the playoffs, working as a poor-man’s KAT and allowing us to run our standard sets with our 5 spreading the floor, and that has value. We aren’t winning a championship, but a good showing in the playoffs could change some minds about this franchise.

I am a firm believer in selling high, but as an RFA plenty of young rebuilding teams might take a shot on him. OKC comes to mind, Portland, Detroit, ect… We need to pay Nowell and probably Dlo, and Bev, and maybe JO. Not to mention needing money lying around to pay KAT, and then eventually max Ant (a couple years down the road, but is on the balance sheet under plan ahead.) The problem with young teams is that the players start to command money as they develop. We have a ton of that happening in the next few years and someone has to go. Naz gets the fewest minutes, and in theory is the easiest to replace (Because KAT is not injury prone and plays a ton of minutes.) I still think Naz gets us Turner if we want him.

These are all legitimate points.

If you’re interested, I made a poll on the Trade and Transactions board, to get feedback from a neutral audience.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2159640

[Neeva]

Lets get Mo Wagner for cheap. He’s good for a few inexplicably amazing games each season, good to have off the bench.