The Andrew Wiggins Thread

[Worm Guts]

I think some of you are taking this as an insult to Wiggins when it wasn't meant to be. It's more of a question whether we should be patient if we don't have to be.

Well, the thing is that you have to be. Check what lacking of patience did to New Orleans/Anthony Davis and Sacramento/Cousins or the Nets : it's the best path to treadmill.
A winning culture is created from top to the bottom, and it takes time, good habits and continuity. There is no shortcuts to it, unless your president name is Pat Riley (and even here, the winning culture is here at every level).
And let's say you trade Wiggins for Paul George or Jimmy Butler (as a Chi fan, I would do that trade in a blink), where will that lead you ? To be crushed by Warriors/Spurs or OKC ? Hindering all players development but Towns in order to reach 2nd round at best ? That's the exact contrary of a winning culture.

Your leading scorer is putting 20 points on an outdated 90's style-offense negating all his strengths, and he's allowed to drink alcohol since today. And he's not even the best prospect on the team ! If I were in the front office, I would be doing somersaults.

There are different paths to champsionships and there have been plenty of championship teams that didn't grow up together. If you look at recent champions, Miami, Dallas, Boston, and LA only drafted 1 of their top 3 players.

Obviously making a bad trade would be a disaster, but the hope would to build a contender now while also maintaining the most important piece to a championship team in the future and that way you end up with a bigger window. And possibly Towns benefits from the playoff experience.
Potential is never guaranteed, so I think if we could build a real contender now, we should do it even if that means trading Wiggins. I do think it's very questionable whether we could build a legitimate contender with players that could be potentially available. Adding Blake Griffin or Jimmy Butler by themselves doesn't make us a contender.

[Dewey]

Although I am very disappointed in Wiggins lackluster effort at times, no way would I trade him yet. If I see the same pattern next season under a new coach (I fully expect), then maybe start thinking about it. It's just to early to judge a young players mental and physical maturity at age 20-21. I'm more disappointed that Sams so-called old-school ways have not resulted in Wiggins on the bench at times when he is mentally checked out. There's been many excuses to sit Bazz in the past, but Sam is not willing to the same with Wiggins.

[NewWolvesOrder]

What bothers me is Smitch never seems to keep Wiggins accountable. He can chew out LaVine, Towns, etc, he can bench them and play an inferior player in the fourth. But Wiggins can play like dog crap and never lose playing time and get all the plays run for him out of a time out, even when Towns is super hot.

[Dleavitt24]

Hey its Drew Bday today - I officially declear today "no talking negatively about Andrew Wiggins day"

See y'all tomorrow.

[thinktank]

Trading Wiggins is a terrible idea.

Sure, you might speed up the process by one or two years...

But you'd be truncating the process by more years on the back end because the players you'd have to acquire would be more than four or five years older than Towns.

Why would you want to shorten our championship window due to impatience?

Stupid.

[Ferulci]

There are different paths to champsionships and there have been plenty of championship teams that didn't grow up together. If you look at recent champions, Miami, Dallas, Boston, and LA only drafted 1 of their top 3 players.

Obviously making a bad trade would be a disaster, but the hope would to build a contender now while also maintaining the most important piece to a championship team in the future and that way you end up with a bigger window. And possibly Towns benefits from the playoff experience.
Potential is never guaranteed, so I think if we could build a real contender now, we should do it even if that means trading Wiggins. I do think it's very questionable whether we could build a legitimate contender with players that could be potentially available. Adding Blake Griffin or Jimmy Butler by themselves doesn't make us a contender.

- Boston is the most successful franchise in the NBA and it took them 3 veteran superstars, each with 10+ years of experience, and amongst them what might be the most selfless superstar ever.
- Los Angeles got continuity from Kobe (who still had to learn how to be a true leader) to Phil Jackson, Odom or Derek Fisher, Kupchack or Dr Buss.
- Miami is led by Pat Riley and it took 3 players (the best player in the NBA, one in the Top 3 and one in the Top 10) to decide to play together. Oh, and they had tons of experience between titles, NBA finals, olympics...
- Dallas core (Dirk, Carlisle, Terry, Kidd or even Barea and Marion) played together for years. And you could argue that it is a bad example because they broke their team (and continuity) and didnt get past the 2nd round since then. Dirk last years are wasted on a treadmill team.
You see how unlikely that is ? You need veterans, the best franchises/executives/coaches of our era to make it work. And even here, it took time for 3 of 4 teams. When you dont have any of that, you have to build it, like Golden State, OKC or Atlanta are doing. And there are no shortcuts.
Towns prime will start in about 5 years. By that time, you need to get A) An elite core that fits him B)Experience of playing together C) Good coaching staff D) Good front office
By 2021, Butler/Georges will be 31, Blake Griffin 32. Why trade for them since they wont get you past the 2nd round now and by the time Towns is at his prime, they will be at the end of it ?
If you like them that much, they will be free-agents in the next 4 years so why not wait ?
I could understand if the team wanted to find young players they like more around Towns (bad example, but if they did Wiggins for Gordon/Hezonja). Actually I think the Wolves should do that with Dieng and Shabazz while they are still viewed as prospects.
But unless you're getting Thibs+ Part Riley while Towns morphs into prime Duncan tomorrow, imo you have no reasons to trade for a superstar, especially when Wiggins will probably be one.

[TheGeekFreak]

We just got to accept Wiggins is who he is, aloof, in his own world, a guy who could be nick named "Sleepy". A guy who doesn't like criticism, a guy that has been pampered his whole life. I have no idea if Wiggins would take to hard coaching from someone like Thibodeau. He might sulk and want to leave.

All that said our best option and hope is probably to keep him and try to work with him, ...and continue to pamper him.

[ace625214]

Trading Wiggins is a terrible idea.

Sure, you might speed up the process by one or two years...

But you'd be truncating the process by more years on the back end because the players you'd have to acquire would be more than four or five years older than Towns.

Why would you want to shorten our championship window due to impatience?

Stupid.

The thought is that you would be guaranteeing a championship window at all. Towns can't do it by himself. One of Wiggins/LaVine/Ricky/Pick need to ascend to star status. Ricky likely won't get his shot good enough to be there, Zach doesn't seem to have the BBIQ to get there, and the pick is a just a guess at this point. So it's a 50% shot at Wiggins becoming a star for a 12-year championship window or a 95% chance at an 8-year window. That's assuming you can keep both around indefinitely and fill in the role players.

[Worm Guts]

Trading Wiggins is a terrible idea.

Sure, you might speed up the process by one or two years...

But you'd be truncating the process by more years on the back end because the players you'd have to acquire would be more than four or five years older than Towns.

Why would you want to shorten our championship window due to impatience?

Stupid.

Or you expand it by opening a window now when it wouldn't be there otherwise. You may have to do some quality GMing in the future to make sure the window stays open, but that's what the Lakers did when they added Gasol or the Spurs did adding Leonard.

[Dleavitt24]

Hey its Drew Bday today - I officially declear today "no talking negatively about Andrew Wiggins day"

See y'all tomorrow.

On "no talking negatively about Andrew Wiggins say" I would just like to point out ...a few positive...

1. Andrew is young (21 - bday today) we shouldnt be worried about his motor and drive in a 82 game grind with nothing to play for, to me he's still looked like a YOUNG star in the making.
2. Something tells me he will come in handy in the playoffs, expeically after he gets more experience. Just look to how he plays in big game that have meaning to him.
3. Andrew is a freak althete, as far as althetics goes (speed, strength, very) he's near the top. WHEN he gets stronger, and smarter well all be glad he's on our side.

[Worm Guts]

There are different paths to champsionships and there have been plenty of championship teams that didn't grow up together. If you look at recent champions, Miami, Dallas, Boston, and LA only drafted 1 of their top 3 players.

Obviously making a bad trade would be a disaster, but the hope would to build a contender now while also maintaining the most important piece to a championship team in the future and that way you end up with a bigger window. And possibly Towns benefits from the playoff experience.
Potential is never guaranteed, so I think if we could build a real contender now, we should do it even if that means trading Wiggins. I do think it's very questionable whether we could build a legitimate contender with players that could be potentially available. Adding Blake Griffin or Jimmy Butler by themselves doesn't make us a contender.

- Boston is the most successful franchise in the NBA and it took them 3 veteran superstars, each with 10+ years of experience, and amongst them what might be the most selfless superstar ever.
- Los Angeles got continuity from Kobe (who still had to learn how to be a true leader) to Phil Jackson, Odom or Derek Fisher, Kupchack or Dr Buss.
- Miami is led by Pat Riley and it took 3 players (the best player in the NBA, one in the Top 3 and one in the Top 10) to decide to play together. Oh, and they had tons of experience between titles, NBA finals, olympics...
- Dallas core (Dirk, Carlisle, Terry, Kidd or even Barea and Marion) played together for years. And you could argue that it is a bad example because they broke their team (and continuity) and didnt get past the 2nd round since then. Dirk last years are wasted on a treadmill team.
You see how unlikely that is ? You need veterans, the best franchises/executives/coaches of our era to make it work. And even here, it took time for 3 of 4 teams. When you dont have any of that, you have to build it, like Golden State, OKC or Atlanta are doing. And there are no shortcuts.
Towns prime will start in about 5 years. By that time, you need to get A) An elite core that fits him B)Experience of playing together C) Good coaching staff D) Good front office
By 2021, Butler/Georges will be 31, Blake Griffin 32. Why trade for them since they wont get you past the 2nd round now and by the time Towns is at his prime, they will be at the end of it ?
If you like them that much, they will be free-agents in the next 4 years so why not wait ?
I could understand if the team wanted to find young players they like more around Towns (bad example, but if they did Wiggins for Gordon/Hezonja). Actually I think the Wolves should do that with Dieng and Shabazz while they are still viewed as prospects.
But unless you're getting Thibs+ Part Riley while Towns morphs into prime Duncan tomorrow, imo you have no reasons to trade for a superstar, especially when Wiggins will probably be one.

Well, the point is to add superstars like Miami and Boston did. If you want to say the level of player they added won't be available to us, that's probably true and the reason why this is more hypothetical than a real suggestion.

[urinesane]

Trading Wiggins is a terrible idea.

Sure, you might speed up the process by one or two years...

But you'd be truncating the process by more years on the back end because the players you'd have to acquire would be more than four or five years older than Towns.

Why would you want to shorten our championship window due to impatience?

Stupid.

The thought is that you would be guaranteeing a championship window at all. Towns can't do it by himself. One of Wiggins/LaVine/Ricky/Pick need to ascend to star status. Ricky likely won't get his shot good enough to be there, Zach doesn't seem to have the BBIQ to get there, and the pick is a just a guess at this point. So it's a 50% shot at Wiggins becoming a star for a 12-year championship window or a 95% chance at an 8-year window. That's assuming you can keep both around indefinitely and fill in the role players.

Would you have considered Rondo a star at one point?

I don't see why Ricky couldn't hit at least Rondo levels of play with developed players around him. Just think how easy it was for Rondo to get assists with Pierce, Allen, and KG to feed.

If his shot improves it's a bonus (it is slowly improving, so I think he will at least become an average shooter in the future). If he stays the same he could easily be our Rondo if Wiggins/Towns/Lavine develop.

Ricky has created most of his assists with the Wolves, because outside of Love and Pek down low when healthy, he hasn't had many great shooters/scorers around him. When the Celtics won the championship Rondo put up 10 points, 6 assists (3.6 ast:to), 4 rebs, 1.7 steals, 1.8 TOV, 40% fg (4.1 attempts per game), 2.6 FTA (69% FT) per game in the playoffs (32 min per game).

Rubio is currently putting up 9.7 pts, 8.8 assists (3.78 ast:to), 4.4 reb, 2.2 steals, 2.3 TOV, 35.7% fg (7.7), 4.4 FTA (82% FT) per game this year (30.5 min per game).

I think they need to bring in Thibs and instill a grinding defense. Let Rubio play the Rondo role, Wiggins play the Pierce role, Lavine the Allen role, and Towns the KG role.

It will take time for this group to grow into their games, but Rubio could easily be as good or better than Rondo in 2007-2008 and that was good enough to win a championship (with a non-scoring PG).

Defense will be the key to this team's future contention, not a scoring PG. Thibs is the right coach and Rubio/Lavine/Wiggins/Towns is a hell of a starting 4/5 a few years down the road.

I think they should be doing a Celtics championship build, but as if they had Pierce/KG/Allen earlier in their careers and Rondo was the vet. The OKC build sounds great, but they haven't won a championship and I don't think the Wolves have a KD/Westbrook clone. I know Lavine gets the Westbrook comparison, but he can't run the point like Westbrook.

Let Lavine be a sniper from 3 with the ability to slash and finish at the rim. Wiggins can attack in a multitude of ways, especially if his 3 point shooting keeps improving as he grows into his body. Towns can be the captain and defensive anchor, with not only the ability to score down low, but improve upon KGs staple of long 2's and step out to 3. Not only improving the shot selection, but providing even better spacing. Rubio is the general on the floor and runs the show.

Sounds like a pretty strong core of 4 guys to me. KG as a mentor and Thibs (the defensive assistant coach with the celtics championship team) would be a pretty damn good way to shift towards that Celtics championship build.

No need to search for a "big 3" when the Wolves may have that a few years down the road with their current roster.

[Worm Guts]

One other thing to consider is age, most championship teams have had a superstar between 27-31. So even if we have championship talent, holding everything together for another 7 years could be a challenge.

[Crazy-Canuck]

One other thing to consider is age, most championship teams have had a superstar between 27-31. So even if we have championship talent, holding everything together for another 7 years could be a challenge.

i think this is going to be the biggest problem.

KAT likely gets the 5 yr max.
Wiggins even if he doesnt improve at all from this year will still get a 4 year max.
Lavine will also look for max money based on how he views himself and his athletic potential.

Dieng is going to get a monster bump and bazzy isnt going to come cheap either.

[ace625214]

Spoiler:

Trading Wiggins is a terrible idea.

Sure, you might speed up the process by one or two years...

But you'd be truncating the process by more years on the back end because the players you'd have to acquire would be more than four or five years older than Towns.

Why would you want to shorten our championship window due to impatience?

Stupid.

The thought is that you would be guaranteeing a championship window at all. Towns can't do it by himself. One of Wiggins/LaVine/Ricky/Pick need to ascend to star status. Ricky likely won't get his shot good enough to be there, Zach doesn't seem to have the BBIQ to get there, and the pick is a just a guess at this point. So it's a 50% shot at Wiggins becoming a star for a 12-year championship window or a 95% chance at an 8-year window. That's assuming you can keep both around indefinitely and fill in the role players.

Would you have considered Rondo a star at one point?

I don't see why Ricky couldn't hit at least Rondo levels of play with developed players around him. Just think how easy it was for Rondo to get assists with Pierce, Allen, and KG to feed.

If his shot improves it's a bonus (it is slowly improving, so I think he will at least become an average shooter in the future). If he stays the same he could easily be our Rondo if Wiggins/Towns/Lavine develop.

Ricky has created most of his assists with the Wolves, because outside of Love and Pek down low when healthy, he hasn't had many great shooters/scorers around him. When the Celtics won the championship Rondo put up 10 points, 6 assists (3.6 ast:to), 4 rebs, 1.7 steals, 1.8 TOV, 40% fg (4.1 attempts per game), 2.6 FTA (69% FT) per game in the playoffs (32 min per game).

Rubio is currently putting up 9.7 pts, 8.8 assists (3.78 ast:to), 4.4 reb, 2.2 steals, 2.3 TOV, 35.7% fg (7.7), 4.4 FTA (82% FT) per game this year (30.5 min per game).

I think they need to bring in Thibs and instill a grinding defense. Let Rubio play the Rondo role, Wiggins play the Pierce role, Lavine the Allen role, and Towns the KG role.

It will take time for this group to grow into their games, but Rubio could easily be as good or better than Rondo in 2007-2008 and that was good enough to win a championship (with a non-scoring PG).

Defense will be the key to this team's future contention, not a scoring PG. Thibs is the right coach and Rubio/Lavine/Wiggins/Towns is a hell of a starting 4/5 a few years down the road.

I think they should be doing a Celtics championship build, but as if they had Pierce/KG/Allen earlier in their careers and Rondo was the vet. The OKC build sounds great, but they haven't won a championship and I don't think the Wolves have a KD/Westbrook clone. I know Lavine gets the Westbrook comparison, but he can't run the point like Westbrook.

Let Lavine be a sniper from 3 with the ability to slash and finish at the rim. Wiggins can attack in a multitude of ways, especially if his 3 point shooting keeps improving as he grows into his body. Towns can be the captain and defensive anchor, with not only the ability to score down low, but improve upon KGs staple of long 2's and step out to 3. Not only improving the shot selection, but providing even better spacing. Rubio is the general on the floor and runs the show.

Sounds like a pretty strong core of 4 guys to me. KG as a mentor and Thibs (the defensive assistant coach with the celtics championship team) would be a pretty damn good way to shift towards that Celtics championship build.

No need to search for a "big 3" when the Wolves may have that a few years down the road with their current roster.

That post was in no way meant to be a slight towards Rubio. I don't know how the hell you interpreted it that way. I'm not even arguing for trading Wiggins. I was explaining the logic behind trading Wiggins if it happens. Of course Ricky can be as good or better than Rondo was, but Rondo/KG would not have won them a title. Neither would Rondo/Pierce, nor Rondo/Allen. They needed at least three of them, and probably all four.

[urinesane]

Spoiler:

The thought is that you would be guaranteeing a championship window at all. Towns can't do it by himself. One of Wiggins/LaVine/Ricky/Pick need to ascend to star status. Ricky likely won't get his shot good enough to be there, Zach doesn't seem to have the BBIQ to get there, and the pick is a just a guess at this point. So it's a 50% shot at Wiggins becoming a star for a 12-year championship window or a 95% chance at an 8-year window. That's assuming you can keep both around indefinitely and fill in the role players.

Would you have considered Rondo a star at one point?

I don't see why Ricky couldn't hit at least Rondo levels of play with developed players around him. Just think how easy it was for Rondo to get assists with Pierce, Allen, and KG to feed.

If his shot improves it's a bonus (it is slowly improving, so I think he will at least become an average shooter in the future). If he stays the same he could easily be our Rondo if Wiggins/Towns/Lavine develop.

Ricky has created most of his assists with the Wolves, because outside of Love and Pek down low when healthy, he hasn't had many great shooters/scorers around him. When the Celtics won the championship Rondo put up 10 points, 6 assists (3.6 ast:to), 4 rebs, 1.7 steals, 1.8 TOV, 40% fg (4.1 attempts per game), 2.6 FTA (69% FT) per game in the playoffs (32 min per game).

Rubio is currently putting up 9.7 pts, 8.8 assists (3.78 ast:to), 4.4 reb, 2.2 steals, 2.3 TOV, 35.7% fg (7.7), 4.4 FTA (82% FT) per game this year (30.5 min per game).

I think they need to bring in Thibs and instill a grinding defense. Let Rubio play the Rondo role, Wiggins play the Pierce role, Lavine the Allen role, and Towns the KG role.

It will take time for this group to grow into their games, but Rubio could easily be as good or better than Rondo in 2007-2008 and that was good enough to win a championship (with a non-scoring PG).

Defense will be the key to this team's future contention, not a scoring PG. Thibs is the right coach and Rubio/Lavine/Wiggins/Towns is a hell of a starting 4/5 a few years down the road.

I think they should be doing a Celtics championship build, but as if they had Pierce/KG/Allen earlier in their careers and Rondo was the vet. The OKC build sounds great, but they haven't won a championship and I don't think the Wolves have a KD/Westbrook clone. I know Lavine gets the Westbrook comparison, but he can't run the point like Westbrook.

Let Lavine be a sniper from 3 with the ability to slash and finish at the rim. Wiggins can attack in a multitude of ways, especially if his 3 point shooting keeps improving as he grows into his body. Towns can be the captain and defensive anchor, with not only the ability to score down low, but improve upon KGs staple of long 2's and step out to 3. Not only improving the shot selection, but providing even better spacing. Rubio is the general on the floor and runs the show.

Sounds like a pretty strong core of 4 guys to me. KG as a mentor and Thibs (the defensive assistant coach with the celtics championship team) would be a pretty damn good way to shift towards that Celtics championship build.

No need to search for a "big 3" when the Wolves may have that a few years down the road with their current roster.

That post was in no way meant to be a slight towards Rubio. I don't know how the hell you interpreted it that way. I'm not even arguing for trading Wiggins. I was explaining the logic behind trading Wiggins if it happens. Of course Ricky can be as good or better than Rondo was, but Rondo/KG would not have won them a title. Neither would Rondo/Pierce, nor Rondo/Allen. They needed at least three of them, and probably all four.

I just wanted to know what would be considered a star. If Towns/Wiggins develop into stars and Lavine becomes a serviceable starting SG, Rubio wouldn't have to score much to be considered a star. Up until this point, outside of Love, he hasn't really had good shooters around him, so if Towns/Wiggins come into their own, it will make Rubio's job easier (easier assists are always nice).

If Rubio has some stars around him, suddenly his scoring (like Rondo) isn't a big issue, and the other things he does are elevated further.

I thought of Rondo as a star, not a super star, but even as a non-scoring PG, playing with Pierce/KG/Allen, he was a star imo. I think Rubio could easily be the same if Towns/Wiggins develop into the stars many think they will.

Rubio is the type of player that enhances the strengths of teammates he plays with, but up until now with the exception of Love/Pek, he hasn't had much to work with (shining turds mostly). I think having legit stars with Rubio will not only elevate their games, but also Ricky's.

[ace625214]

Spoiler:

Would you have considered Rondo a star at one point?

I don't see why Ricky couldn't hit at least Rondo levels of play with developed players around him. Just think how easy it was for Rondo to get assists with Pierce, Allen, and KG to feed.

If his shot improves it's a bonus (it is slowly improving, so I think he will at least become an average shooter in the future). If he stays the same he could easily be our Rondo if Wiggins/Towns/Lavine develop.

Ricky has created most of his assists with the Wolves, because outside of Love and Pek down low when healthy, he hasn't had many great shooters/scorers around him. When the Celtics won the championship Rondo put up 10 points, 6 assists (3.6 ast:to), 4 rebs, 1.7 steals, 1.8 TOV, 40% fg (4.1 attempts per game), 2.6 FTA (69% FT) per game in the playoffs (32 min per game).

Rubio is currently putting up 9.7 pts, 8.8 assists (3.78 ast:to), 4.4 reb, 2.2 steals, 2.3 TOV, 35.7% fg (7.7), 4.4 FTA (82% FT) per game this year (30.5 min per game).

I think they need to bring in Thibs and instill a grinding defense. Let Rubio play the Rondo role, Wiggins play the Pierce role, Lavine the Allen role, and Towns the KG role.

It will take time for this group to grow into their games, but Rubio could easily be as good or better than Rondo in 2007-2008 and that was good enough to win a championship (with a non-scoring PG).

Defense will be the key to this team's future contention, not a scoring PG. Thibs is the right coach and Rubio/Lavine/Wiggins/Towns is a hell of a starting 4/5 a few years down the road.

I think they should be doing a Celtics championship build, but as if they had Pierce/KG/Allen earlier in their careers and Rondo was the vet. The OKC build sounds great, but they haven't won a championship and I don't think the Wolves have a KD/Westbrook clone. I know Lavine gets the Westbrook comparison, but he can't run the point like Westbrook.

Let Lavine be a sniper from 3 with the ability to slash and finish at the rim. Wiggins can attack in a multitude of ways, especially if his 3 point shooting keeps improving as he grows into his body. Towns can be the captain and defensive anchor, with not only the ability to score down low, but improve upon KGs staple of long 2's and step out to 3. Not only improving the shot selection, but providing even better spacing. Rubio is the general on the floor and runs the show.

Sounds like a pretty strong core of 4 guys to me. KG as a mentor and Thibs (the defensive assistant coach with the celtics championship team) would be a pretty damn good way to shift towards that Celtics championship build.

No need to search for a "big 3" when the Wolves may have that a few years down the road with their current roster.

That post was in no way meant to be a slight towards Rubio. I don't know how the hell you interpreted it that way. I'm not even arguing for trading Wiggins. I was explaining the logic behind trading Wiggins if it happens. Of course Ricky can be as good or better than Rondo was, but Rondo/KG would not have won them a title. Neither would Rondo/Pierce, nor Rondo/Allen. They needed at least three of them, and probably all four.

I just wanted to know what would be considered a star. If Towns/Wiggins develop into stars and Lavine becomes a serviceable starting SG, Rubio wouldn't have to score much to be considered a star. Up until this point, outside of Love, he hasn't really had good shooters around him, so if Towns/Wiggins come into their own, it will make Rubio's job easier (easier assists are always nice).

If Rubio has some stars around him, suddenly his scoring (like Rondo) isn't a big issue, and the other things he does are elevated further.

I thought of Rondo as a star, not a super star, but even as a non-scoring PG, playing with Pierce/KG/Allen, he was a star imo. I think Rubio could easily be the same if Towns/Wiggins develop into the stars many think they will.

Rubio is the type of player that enhances the strengths of teammates he plays with, but up until now with the exception of Love/Pek, he hasn't had much to work with (shining turds mostly). I think having legit stars with Rubio will not only elevate their games, but also Ricky's.

I'm fully in agreement with you. My whole point was that Ricky is a great player, but he's not your colloquial "star". The whole point was that Rubio/Towns won't be enough. You'll need one of Wiggins or LaVine to ascend to being a top player in the league. If that happens, suddenly the team is a contender for a decade. If that doesn't happen, they never have a championship window at all. Trading Wiggins for someone like Cousins/Butler would be shortening the window, but guaranteeing that there is one.

[urinesane]

Spoiler:

That post was in no way meant to be a slight towards Rubio. I don't know how the hell you interpreted it that way. I'm not even arguing for trading Wiggins. I was explaining the logic behind trading Wiggins if it happens. Of course Ricky can be as good or better than Rondo was, but Rondo/KG would not have won them a title. Neither would Rondo/Pierce, nor Rondo/Allen. They needed at least three of them, and probably all four.

I just wanted to know what would be considered a star. If Towns/Wiggins develop into stars and Lavine becomes a serviceable starting SG, Rubio wouldn't have to score much to be considered a star. Up until this point, outside of Love, he hasn't really had good shooters around him, so if Towns/Wiggins come into their own, it will make Rubio's job easier (easier assists are always nice).

If Rubio has some stars around him, suddenly his scoring (like Rondo) isn't a big issue, and the other things he does are elevated further.

I thought of Rondo as a star, not a super star, but even as a non-scoring PG, playing with Pierce/KG/Allen, he was a star imo. I think Rubio could easily be the same if Towns/Wiggins develop into the stars many think they will.

Rubio is the type of player that enhances the strengths of teammates he plays with, but up until now with the exception of Love/Pek, he hasn't had much to work with (shining turds mostly). I think having legit stars with Rubio will not only elevate their games, but also Ricky's.

I'm fully in agreement with you. My whole point was that Ricky is a great player, but he's not your colloquial "star". The whole point was that Rubio/Towns won't be enough. You'll need one of Wiggins or LaVine to ascend to being a top player in the league. If that happens, suddenly the team is a contender for a decade. If that doesn't happen, they never have a championship window at all. Trading Wiggins for someone like Cousins/Butler would be shortening the window, but guaranteeing that there is one.

I personally would prefer to roll with what they have. Tinkering hasn't worked well for the Wolves in the past.

[immortalone23]

I'm confused on why y'all might trade him. Wtf? We have the chance to build something special. Why tinker with that? Ask fans of a team like the Nets or Grizzlies if they'd want our core, they'd say yes. This is the type of core Philly wishes they had, other rebuilding teams would die to get guys like Towns or Wiggins.

[ace625214]

I'm confused on why y'all might trade him. Wtf? We have the chance to build something special. Why tinker with that? Ask fans of a team like the Nets or Grizzlies if they'd want our core, they'd say yes. This is the type of core Philly wishes they had, other rebuilding teams would die to get guys like Towns or Wiggins.

The last two pages were an explanation of the reasoning. I'm not for or against it, but the logic is pretty clear. Don't trade Wiggins = some % chance at a long title window. Trade Wiggins for a star = window is shorter, but much higher chance there is one. Basically it comes down to you evaluation of Wiggins and whether you're a gambler or not.