Butler has requested a trade (Part II)

[KGdaBom]

I don't know if a trade will ever happen but every time someone is held out a game it makes you wonder. Danilo Gallinari was held out of the Clippers game last night. I would be good with Gallo, Robinson and a first for Butler. I don't know if I want the Wolves to have to pay Harris the max next year.

Harris is worth 25 million a year in todays NBA.

[shangrila]

Cause I prefer trips to the playoffs and you prefer tanking?

You're just digging your hole deeper.

What hole?! What are you talking about!!!!! Between you and mini it’s like an episode of the twilight zone. I actually recall of mini admitting he’s a thibs hater so I could find the quote. I don’t have to go back and forth with him any more.... BUT YOU! What’s you’re excuse lol? What hole am I digging deeper.

You've convinced yourself Thibs is right and anyone that disagrees with that is wrong.

- i admitted thibs has different philosophy from the owner and fans which makes him a bad fit

Framed in such a way as to make him the hero and the rest of us the villains. Basically, a cop out.

- taj and Teague aren’t objectively bad contracts

Taj, yes. Teague, no. He's overpaid and was given a player option, giving complete control to him. There's no upside for the team in that scenario; either he plays well enough to justify that final year in which case he opts out and seeks a longer deal or he plays like crap and opts in because he won't get anything better. Considering it was agreed to the minute it was possible shows a lack of patience and/or control as well.

- gorgui is objectively a bad contract but he’s not so bad that it hamstrings the org like Solomon hills deal, injury ridden chandler parsons, or washed up jokim Noah.

You realise Hill makes significantly less than Dieng, right?

Either way, you're right...in a vacuum. But with context? Considering the idea was to have a 3rd max player alongside Towns and Wiggins from the beginning means sinking 15mil into a redundant player wasn't smart.

- Wiggins objectively was maxed by the owner and not thibs.

Source?

- Wiggins objectively sucks and is being paid for 5 more years

And?

- Wiggins objectively was on the block if it was strictly up to thibs

Again, source?

I see a bunch of conjecture and opinion thrown around as facts framed in a way to put Thibs in as much of a positive light as possible. Thibs isn't THE problem but if you can't see he's part of it then I think you're delusional.

[AirP.]

While that is very true Thibs still made the deal for Butler which is now a disaster. He drafted Dunn when he should have taken my guy Jamal Murray. We would never have made the move for Teague and overpay. We even could have played Murray and Rubio together.

Thibs continues to make one bad move after another. By the time Glen fires him he will have destroyed this franchise. His players hate him. Why do you think he keeps bringing back players from Chicago? He's running an outdated system too.

Glen has his faults but he has to do what he can to protect the franchise.

You do understand, even with your man Murray this team wouldn't be a playoff team still, who knows if it would be in the next few years.

The big question should be why is Butler citing money as an issue to request a trade when Minnesota can give him the most money by far? I don't think that's a Thibs problem, do you? I kinda think it's an owner problem, he had no problem giving Wiggins the max, even went through the media to proclaim it, now with Butler, he made the all-nba team, he helped get the team into the playoffs after not even getting close to .500 for many years. Maybe, just maybe the owner is screwing up this franchise left and right.

...are you serious? It's fairly obvious the money angle is a smoke screen to deflect from whatever drama really led to his request.

I'm only going with what it rumored. It is entirely possible that Taylor doesn't want to add a 3rd max or near max contract with the current situation, Wiggins under performing while starting his new max contract and probably can't move him.

If there's more then Butler and Thibs are protecting the other players involved and both of them are taking all the damage. I actually believe that's what's happening.

Best thing for Minnesota would for Butler to return(you're not going to get equal value for him in a trade), he gets paid and stays for another 4-5 years, this team becomes a contender and gives the fans something good to cheer for.

[AirP.]

The big question should be why is Butler citing money as an issue to request a trade when Minnesota can give him the most money by far?

He doesn't want to stay in Minnesota! So the way to get the most money is to force his way out so his Bird rights transfer rather than to wait until free agency to leave.

The question is why doesn't he want to stay? Money is the only thing being cited yet Minnesota owns the rights to give him the most. If there's more he and Thibs who are taking all the damage are actually protecting the ones causing all the problems whether that's the the owner not wanting to pay him or situations with teammates.

[walk with me]

You've convinced yourself Thibs is right and anyone that disagrees with that is wrong.


Framed in such a way as to make him the hero and the rest of us the villains. Basically, a cop out.


Taj, yes. Teague, no. He's overpaid and was given a player option, giving complete control to him. There's no upside for the team in that scenario; either he plays well enough to justify that final year in which case he opts out and seeks a longer deal or he plays like crap and opts in because he won't get anything better. Considering it was agreed to the minute it was possible shows a lack of patience and/or control as well.

- gorgui is objectively a bad contract but he’s not so bad that it hamstrings the org like Solomon hills deal, injury ridden chandler parsons, or washed up jokim Noah.

You realise Hill makes significantly less than Dieng, right?

Either way, you're right...in a vacuum. But with context? Considering the idea was to have a 3rd max player alongside Towns and Wiggins from the beginning means sinking 15mil into a redundant player wasn't smart.


Source?

And?

Again, source?

I see a bunch of conjecture and opinion thrown around as facts framed in a way to put Thibs in as much of a positive light as possible. Thibs isn't THE problem but if you can't see he's part of it then I think you're delusional.

I’m not framing it in any type of way. There’s no right or wrong in this situation.

Memphis has been an extremely successful franchise with the thibs philosophy of pushing for the playoffs

76ers are trending to be successful using the philosophy you want...

There’s no right or wrong.

You agree on taj. So let’s leave him out of this. Teague is far more debatable but his deal doesn’t hamstring the org no matter how you slice it. Overpaid, debatable.... dangerous for the future, absolutely not.

Regarding the hill deal. Hill doesn’t even see the court so based on that alone it’s a poorer deal. Gorgui may be over paid but he’s not an awful player and is extreme reliable health wise.

You conveniently being naive when Wiggins comes up is the type of lies I’m talking about. The Wiggins Taylor thibs situation is well documented. You just choose to ignore it because it damages your position.

https://www.twincities.com/2017/07/28/glen-taylor-views-andrew-wiggins-as-untouchable-and-he-thinks-timberwolves-can-give-golden-state-a-run/

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20277493/minnesota-timberwolves-owner-glen-taylor-wants-meeting-andrew-wiggins-gets-max-deal

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When you accept the truth we don’t have to debate over what’s opinion and what’s not. There’s only one truth and we can talk on the same level. All the things I’ve said are proven fact or agreed to be debatable like teagues contract or the road to success (tanking vs non tanking) it just doesn’t match your agenda so I’m delusional.


Learn to find and accept the truth as youll never be lost with it.

[walk with me]

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This tweet is so damaging to the thibs deniers. Thibs absolutely hasn’t been perfect but this tweet is aproximately the most damaging thing to happen to this franchise in the last 3 years.

[KGdaBom]

You're just digging your hole deeper.

What hole?! What are you talking about!!!!! Between you and mini it’s like an episode of the twilight zone. I actually recall of mini admitting he’s a thibs hater so I could find the quote. I don’t have to go back and forth with him any more.... BUT YOU! What’s you’re excuse lol? What hole am I digging deeper.

You've convinced yourself Thibs is right and anyone that disagrees with that is wrong.

- i admitted thibs has different philosophy from the owner and fans which makes him a bad fit

Framed in such a way as to make him the hero and the rest of us the villains. Basically, a cop out.

- taj and Teague aren’t objectively bad contracts

Taj, yes. Teague, no. He's overpaid and was given a player option, giving complete control to him. There's no upside for the team in that scenario; either he plays well enough to justify that final year in which case he opts out and seeks a longer deal or he plays like crap and opts in because he won't get anything better. Considering it was agreed to the minute it was possible shows a lack of patience and/or control as well.

- gorgui is objectively a bad contract but he’s not so bad that it hamstrings the org like Solomon hills deal, injury ridden chandler parsons, or washed up jokim Noah.

You realise Hill makes significantly less than Dieng, right?

Either way, you're right...in a vacuum. But with context? Considering the idea was to have a 3rd max player alongside Towns and Wiggins from the beginning means sinking 15mil into a redundant player wasn't smart.

- Wiggins objectively was maxed by the owner and not thibs.

Source?

- Wiggins objectively sucks and is being paid for 5 more years

And?

- Wiggins objectively was on the block if it was strictly up to thibs

Again, source?

I see a bunch of conjecture and opinion thrown around as facts framed in a way to put Thibs in as much of a positive light as possible. Thibs isn't THE problem but if you can't see he's part of it then I think you're delusional.

Shangrila I will grant you that you are the first Thibs hater I see that can put together a rational argument even though I mostly disagree with you. As for source I'm not good at giving sources, but it was always my impression from Day one that Thibs wanted to move Wiggins and Glen wouldn't let him. If the Wiggins max can be pinned on Thibs then all the negativity towards him has some merit. However, he still won 47 games. Our best record in 14 years. I can't be against him.

Also declaring that Walk with me or anybody else was digging a hole supporting Thibs while they are making very well stated very rational opinions was incredibly rude.

[KGdaBom]

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This tweet is so damaging to the thibs deniers. Thibs absolutely hasn’t been perfect but this tweet is aproximately the most damaging thing to happen to this franchise in the last 3 years.

Your sources Shangrila.

[shangrila]

I’m not framing it in any type of way. There’s no right or wrong in this situation.

You are. Either you're doing it on purpose, which is sad, or you don't realise it, which is sadder.

Memphis has been an extremely successful franchise with the thibs philosophy of pushing for the playoffs

76ers are trending to be successful using the philosophy you want...

There’s no right or wrong.

That's not what you were aiming for before hand. Us fans didn't care about winning, remember? We enjoyed...what was it, a "return to captivity"?

You agree on taj. So let’s leave him out of this. Teague is far more debatable but his deal doesn’t hamstring the org no matter how you slice it. Overpaid, debatable.... dangerous for the future, absolutely not.

You said it's not a bad contract. He's overpaid and the team ceded control to him. Hence, bad contract.

Franchise crippling, no. But that wasn't the point you were making. Don't change the goal posts to suit your needs.

Regarding the hill deal. Hill doesn’t even see the court so based on that alone it’s a poorer deal. Gorgui may be over paid but he’s not an awful player and is extreme reliable health wise.

Hill has been injured, sure. He is, however, making less. Gorgui averaged 6ppg and 4.5rpg on middling efficiency last year. You can get that kind of production on a minimum contract. So if you found a similar calibre player on the wing to replace Hill, you'd still wind up paying less for them combined than Dieng on his own. They aren't comparable.

You conveniently being naive when Wiggins comes up is the type of lies I’m talking about. The Wiggins Taylor thibs situation is well documented. You just choose to ignore it because it damages your position.

You're trying to move the goal posts again.

You present the idea that Thibs would have long since shipped Wiggins out as fact. Your evidence? Apparently a podcast where Doogie says he was "somewhat open minded" about it. Those are weasel words, absolutely meaningless. What does being somewhat open minded about something even mean? That it crossed his mind? Hardly the immutable fact you presented it as.

When you accept the truth we don’t have to debate over what’s opinion and what’s not. There’s only one truth and we can talk on the same level. All the things I’ve said are proven fact or agreed to be debatable like teagues contract or the road to success (tanking vs non tanking) it just doesn’t match your agenda so I’m delusional.


Learn to find and accept the truth as youll never be lost with it.

"There's only one truth"? Gross. You sound like a fanatic. I'm betting this truth is whatever you believe? Yeah, no thanks.

[walk with me]

I’m not going back and fourth with you any more tbh... you’re more fixated on being anti thibs then pro wolves.

I’m pro wolves so I’m more concerned with the truth then narrative that slanders thibs. You’re anti thibs so the truth doesn’t matter when aiming to create a slanderous narrative that paints thibs as a monster.

The problem with that is when thibs leaves which seems inevitable. The same problems will loom and they won’t have to do with thibs. Keep deflecting though, whatever keeps you comfortable.

[Slim Tubby]

Could this whole argument you guys are having be whittled down to the concept that Thibs wanted to trade Wiggins in the Butler trade and Taylor stepped in and said it had to be Lavine in the deal instead?


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[walk with me]

Could this whole argument you guys are having be whittled down to the concept that Thibs wanted to trade Wiggins in the Butler trade and Taylor stepped in and said it had to be Lavine in the deal instead?


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That’s what I’ve been saying and what’s painfully obvious but since that doesn’t fall on thibs it doesn’t register in his brain.

The espn link, Minnesota newspaper and twitter links I provided are all “speculative” but everything else that surfaces via the media is truth lol.

You can lead them to the water but can’t make them drink. They’re just deranged thibs haters.

[shangrila]

Shangrila I will grant you that you are the first Thibs hater I see that can put together a rational argument even though I mostly disagree with you. As for source I'm not good at giving sources, but it was always my impression from Day one that Thibs wanted to move Wiggins and Glen wouldn't let him. If the Wiggins max can be pinned on Thibs then all the negativity towards him has some merit. However, he still won 47 games. Our best record in 14 years. I can't be against him.

I can't look at it that simply myself but to each their own. I can certainly understand an ends justify the means argument even if I don't agree with it.

Also declaring that Walk with me or anybody else was digging a hole supporting Thibs while they are making very well stated very rational opinions was incredibly rude.

It had nothing to do with his support of Thibs, it was the way he did it. To present opinions as facts is never a good look and when you respond to a (joking) accusation of Stockholm's Syndrome with "either you're with us or against us"...is, well, digging a deeper hole for yourself. I don't know how else to view that. Sorry if it offended you, I guess.

I don't think we're going to see eye to eye on this though. We haven't yet, nor have I with walk, so I think I'll just leave it alone now. We can just agree to disagree, yeah?

[shangrila]

Could this whole argument you guys are having be whittled down to the concept that Thibs wanted to trade Wiggins in the Butler trade and Taylor stepped in and said it had to be Lavine in the deal instead?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you wanted to dumb it down to mentally challenged levels...sure.

[shangrila]

I’m not going back and fourth with you any more tbh... you’re more fixated on being anti thibs then pro wolves.

I’m pro wolves so I’m more concerned with the truth then narrative that slanders thibs. You’re anti thibs so the truth doesn’t matter when aiming to create a slanderous narrative that paints thibs as a monster.

The problem with that is when thibs leaves which seems inevitable. The same problems will loom and they won’t have to do with thibs. Keep deflecting though, whatever keeps you comfortable.

Cool. I didn't want to spend much more time on you either.

[walk with me]

I’m not going back and fourth with you any more tbh... you’re more fixated on being anti thibs then pro wolves.

I’m pro wolves so I’m more concerned with the truth then narrative that slanders thibs. You’re anti thibs so the truth doesn’t matter when aiming to create a slanderous narrative that paints thibs as a monster.

The problem with that is when thibs leaves which seems inevitable. The same problems will loom and they won’t have to do with thibs. Keep deflecting though, whatever keeps you comfortable.

Cool. I didn't want to spend much more time on you either.

I can do this all day but you don’t seem too interested in the truth. Whatever is convenient to bash thibs. Whether it’s deserved or not.

[KGdaBom]

Could this whole argument you guys are having be whittled down to the concept that Thibs wanted to trade Wiggins in the Butler trade and Taylor stepped in and said it had to be Lavine in the deal instead?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He also would have been happy to trade Wiggins in an Irving deal and probably for Porter.

[KGdaBom]

Shangrila I will grant you that you are the first Thibs hater I see that can put together a rational argument even though I mostly disagree with you. As for source I'm not good at giving sources, but it was always my impression from Day one that Thibs wanted to move Wiggins and Glen wouldn't let him. If the Wiggins max can be pinned on Thibs then all the negativity towards him has some merit. However, he still won 47 games. Our best record in 14 years. I can't be against him.

I can't look at it that simply myself but to each their own. I can certainly understand an ends justify the means argument even if I don't agree with it.

Also declaring that Walk with me or anybody else was digging a hole supporting Thibs while they are making very well stated very rational opinions was incredibly rude.

It had nothing to do with his support of Thibs, it was the way he did it. To present opinions as facts is never a good look and when you respond to a (joking) accusation of Stockholm's Syndrome with "either you're with us or against us"...is, well, digging a deeper hole for yourself. I don't know how else to view that. Sorry if it offended you, I guess.

I don't think we're going to see eye to eye on this though. We haven't yet, nor have I with walk, so I think I'll just leave it alone now. We can just agree to disagree, yeah?

Stockholm Syndrome is a very good term for the reaction I see. I've never understood the value of agreeing to disagree. We don't have to agree to disagree. We can disagree with no agreement whatsoever.

[D1SGRUNTL3D]

Shangrila I will grant you that you are the first Thibs hater I see that can put together a rational argument even though I mostly disagree with you. As for source I'm not good at giving sources, but it was always my impression from Day one that Thibs wanted to move Wiggins and Glen wouldn't let him. If the Wiggins max can be pinned on Thibs then all the negativity towards him has some merit. However, he still won 47 games. Our best record in 14 years. I can't be against him.

I can't look at it that simply myself but to each their own. I can certainly understand an ends justify the means argument even if I don't agree with it.

Also declaring that Walk with me or anybody else was digging a hole supporting Thibs while they are making very well stated very rational opinions was incredibly rude.

It had nothing to do with his support of Thibs, it was the way he did it. To present opinions as facts is never a good look and when you respond to a (joking) accusation of Stockholm's Syndrome with "either you're with us or against us"...is, well, digging a deeper hole for yourself. I don't know how else to view that. Sorry if it offended you, I guess.

I don't think we're going to see eye to eye on this though. We haven't yet, nor have I with walk, so I think I'll just leave it alone now. We can just agree to disagree, yeah?

Stockholm Syndrome is a very good term for the reaction I see. I've never understood the value of agreeing to disagree. We don't have to agree to disagree. We can disagree with no agreement whatsoever.

I agree

[twix2500]

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