Re: Trade Talk (Part Twelve): 2023 Playoff Push Edition

[shrink]

There is absolutely no reason why Minnesota couldn't trade him next year, owing a pick doesn't prevent them from doing so.

The panic over needing to trade Karl-Anthony Towns at this exact point in time feels silly to me, especially given the context of not knowing if there are even any worthwhile offers. Minnesota was arguably Denver's toughest matchup, despite the team being half-crippled during the series. Really not the end of the world to run it back.

It doesn't prevent them, it would just be stupid to do so. If you think a trade is going to improve the team and not affect the pick, then there is no reason to hold off BTW.

The picks are a sunk cost. I’m not in favor of trading Towns, but if I were, I’d say that the best time to trade him would be the 2024 trade deadline. He’ll likely have proven his health and have a better season without the illness and injury, and an off-season together.

[Battletrigger]

Why do you think you're right? Our POBO built a championship team that looks like it's not a flash in the pan... what is your experience?

You are looking through a keyhole and are pretending that you are seeing the whole building.

Lol.

Your post is near fundamentalist, almost blind faith.

It's nice see that people always can suprise you.

The guy who is betting on a real GM, the GM that built the current NBA champs (not internet posters), is your “blind faith guy?”

It’s all projecting the future, but you prefer to believe internet posters over an actual, successful GM?

Man, if you post something maintain it, the mod here is not banning you to use another poster that not was in the discussion to tray to attack.

I don't believe neither in internet posters nor people who was in other franchises. I judge what I saw, not trying to cheer up due the success of another team I don't follow.

[SO_MONEY]

Why do you think you're right? Our POBO built a championship team that looks like it's not a flash in the pan... what is your experience?

You are looking through a keyhole and are pretending that you are seeing the whole building.

Lol.

Your post is near fundamentalist, almost blind faith.

It's nice see that people always can suprise you.

The guy who is betting on a real GM, the GM that built the current NBA champs (not internet posters), is your “blind faith guy?”

It’s all projecting the future, but you prefer to believe internet posters over an actual, successful GM?

The blind faith guy is the one who thinks a .500 team is something worth defending. What TC did in the past doesn't undo what he did.

[shrink]

The guy who is betting on a real GM, the GM that built the current NBA champs (not internet posters), is your “blind faith guy?”

It’s all projecting the future, but you prefer to believe internet posters over an actual, successful GM?

I will stay out of whether one should believe internet posters, but do want to point out because Connelly was a successful GM in Denver does not mean he will automatically succeed in Minnesota.

Yes, but has he had more success running an NBA franchise than So Money?

But even if people want to ignore every correct decision Connolly made in Denver, and say they don’t carry over, do you want to ignore every correct decision he’s made in Minnesota? I assume we all agree that the Kyle Anderson acquisition was a smart move? People happy with the Josh Minott pick, and locking him up for four years on a cheap Hinkie Special? How about DLo for Connolly, NAW, and three second rounders?

No GM is going to get everything right. Nobody can see the future. But Connolly has made a freakin’ lot of right decisions for the last ten years, as a REAL GM. At some point, you might want to acknowledge that he could be a good decision-maker.

[SO_MONEY]

There is absolutely no reason why Minnesota couldn't trade him next year, owing a pick doesn't prevent them from doing so.

The panic over needing to trade Karl-Anthony Towns at this exact point in time feels silly to me, especially given the context of not knowing if there are even any worthwhile offers. Minnesota was arguably Denver's toughest matchup, despite the team being half-crippled during the series. Really not the end of the world to run it back.

It doesn't prevent them, it would just be stupid to do so. If you think a trade is going to improve the team and not affect the pick, then there is no reason to hold off BTW.

The picks are a sunk cost. I’m not in favor of trading Towns, but if I were, I’d say that the best time to trade him would be the 2024 trade deadline. He’ll likely have proven his health and have a better season without the illness and injury, and an off-season together.

Trading him at the deadline likely gets less of a return, plus you kind of need to know what you are getting in terms of picks, not gamble they might be while assigning value that might not actually exist, especially given this team's luck. I also wouldn't trade him going into owning a pick and I awouldn't let him devalue himself anymore than he already has. Now is the time to act. Running it back is the definition of insanity.

[urinesane]

If they are content running it back they are fools, you trade Towns now or you at minimum have to wait two years... and what is his value at that point? You can't trade him next year you owe a pick...So 25-26... 27-28? Where does this lunacy stop? We need to build around ANT! We cannot afford to sabotage his prime years He will demand out if we don't do right by him. We cannot afford to waste value because there are consequences if we do.

I sure hope this is just subterfuge because the obvious move is to cash in now and still have a chance at the playoffs and if not add a lottery pick next year to a team that is in the verge.

Run it back on a .500 team that frankly looks better without him. Cripes.

There is absolutely no reason why Minnesota couldn't trade him next year, owing a pick doesn't prevent them from doing so.

The panic over needing to trade Karl-Anthony Towns at this exact point in time feels silly to me, especially given the context of not knowing if there are even any worthwhile offers. Minnesota was arguably Denver's toughest matchup, despite the team being half-crippled during the series. Really not the end of the world to run it back.

It doesn't prevent them, it would just be stupid to do so. If you think a trade is going to improve the team and not affect the pick, then there is no reason to hold off BTW.

This is a .500 team, with Towns and Gobert, perhaps address that before thinking this team has a chance.

This argument is non-sensical. Why are you ignoring the fact that KAT missed most of the season and are acting as if that didn't affect their record? They didn't have Towns and Gobert this season, they had Gobert AND KAT for the first 20 games, then KAT coming off injury for 8 games to end the season.

Are you saying that KAT coming off an injury plagued season is somehow MORE valuable than KAT being healthy this year?

All of your opinions are based in FEAR not facts. You get mad at people not being as afraid as you are and act like THEY are the problem.

[urinesane]

It doesn't prevent them, it would just be stupid to do so. If you think a trade is going to improve the team and not affect the pick, then there is no reason to hold off BTW.

The picks are a sunk cost. I’m not in favor of trading Towns, but if I were, I’d say that the best time to trade him would be the 2024 trade deadline. He’ll likely have proven his health and have a better season without the illness and injury, and an off-season together.

Trading him at the deadline likely gets less of a return, plus you kind of need to know what you are getting in terms of picks, not gamble they might be while assigning value that might not actually exist, especially given this team's luck. I also wouldn't trade him going into owning a pick and I awouldn't let him devalue himself anymore than he already has. Now is the time to act. Running it back is the definition of insanity.

How does a healthy KAT command less than one coming off a mostly injured year? That makes no sense... and don't bring his max into it. Plenty of teams would be happy to pay the max for a healthy KAT. He's worth more than a lottery ticket.

[Baseline81]

Yes, but has he had more success running an NBA franchise than So Money?

But even if people want to ignore every correct decision Connolly made in Denver, and say they don’t carry over, do you want to ignore every correct decision he’s made in Minnesota? I assume we all agree that the Kyle Anderson acquisition was a smart move? People happy with the Josh Minott pick? How about DLo for Connolly, NAW, and three second rounders?

No GM is going to get everything right. Nobody can see the future. But Connolly has made a freakin’ lot of right decisions for the last ten years, as a REAL GM. At some point, you might want to acknowledge that he could be a good decision-maker.

We simply do not know as SO_MONEY has not had the chance. It is possible if given, he may do better. With that said, you are correct every person, be it an actual GM or internet poster, has his/her share of hits and misses.

I would argue, as of this moment, Connelly's miss has hurt the team more than the hits you stated. We are talking about a lack of future flexibility on an experiment, one that currently has not paid off. Again, no one knew if Towns could successfully pair with another center. Instead, Connelly decided if "we are going to do this, we may as well go for one of the best in the league regardless of cost."

Using one first round pick to try something different, which would have been Kessler, is understandable. But throwing away the player you drafted along with four future first round picks and a pick swap is downright unforgiveable.

[twolves31]

Lol.

Your post is near fundamentalist, almost blind faith.

It's nice see that people always can suprise you.

The guy who is betting on a real GM, the GM that built the current NBA champs (not internet posters), is your “blind faith guy?”

It’s all projecting the future, but you prefer to believe internet posters over an actual, successful GM?

The blind faith guy is the one who thinks a .500 team is something worth defending. What TC did in the past doesn't undo what he did.

The .500 team that came into training camp with a worn down Rudy who gave his all playing Summer basketball in France, a sick Kat that spent days in the hospital and lost a lot of weight resulting in absolutely no chemistry being built in the Summer or training camp. A team that lost Kat for 65% of the season. A team that was lead by a 30 million dollar pg in DLo who is going to be lucky to get the mle after his terrible playoffs where he got played of the floor against Denver since teams just targeted him every offensive play. Some positives to last season, was it gave Ant the keys and let him really hone in his killer instinct. It gave Jaden more opportunities to score, and especially when Ant was hurt Jaden was cooking. If we keep Naz, it showed Naz can work at the pf spot and be effective playing next to Rudy. It gave Nowell a chance and proved that he doesn't belong here, so we can move on from him. It showed that Anderson's leadership and overall game was something we really needed. I'm not against trading KAt for a solid return, but let's not act like the .500 product we saw on the floor was a fair representation of our teams potential.

[urinesane]

Lol.

Your post is near fundamentalist, almost blind faith.

It's nice see that people always can suprise you.

The guy who is betting on a real GM, the GM that built the current NBA champs (not internet posters), is your “blind faith guy?”

It’s all projecting the future, but you prefer to believe internet posters over an actual, successful GM?

Man, if you post something maintain it, the mod here is not banning you to use another poster that not was in the discussion to tray to attack.

I don't believe neither in internet posters nor people who was in other franchises. I judge what I saw, not trying to cheer up due the success of another team I don't follow.

You are judging potential long term value of the trade (the picks given up) based on short term results. If the Wolves were a lottery team this season and gave up a top pick, you'd have a point... but they didn't. Had they NOT made the trade, they'd have missed the playoffs and wasted a year of Ant's playoff development.

The only person that is blind here is YOU, considering that you are only willing to judge the new POBO based on ONE move and ONE season, rather than his nearly 10 seasons with a team that is now the current champion (and a contender for multiple championships).

The goalposts keep changing. Last offseason when the trade happened, nobody knew Kessler would be as good as he was this soon, NOBODY. So how can you all of a sudden act like Connelly should have known? Monday morning QB crap, that's how.

People were super butthurt about losing Beasley, Vando, and PatBev, but outside of Vando being the same player he was in MN (with the same flaws that prompted him being included in the deal) Beasley and PatBev did not contribute to winning at the same level as Gobert, period. The Wolves were a #2 defense with Gobert on the floor, why does that get ignored? Because his shot is ugly?

The "super valuable" first round picks, that have always worked well for the Wolves, so far aren't really that impressive.

However, if you trade KAT for scraps and this team becomes a lottery team again, they will have a lot more value. If you allow them to run it back and they avoid major injuries, they can trade KAT or Gobert (they are not trading both) for pieces that can contribute now, rather than hoping they eventually turn into a good player.

The future picks only have value once they have a spot, until then they are just potential (and trade fodder).

Right now the Wolves gave up:
Walker Kessler
Beasley
Vando
PatBev
Leandro "6 points per season" Balmaro
#16 pick in the 2023 draft

The other picks cannot be judged yet, because if the Wolves continue to make the playoffs, they will be in the 15-30 range.

[Baseline81]

Trading him at the deadline likely gets less of a return, plus you kind of need to know what you are getting in terms of picks, not gamble they might be while assigning value that might not actually exist, especially given this team's luck. I also wouldn't trade him going into owning a pick and I awouldn't let him devalue himself anymore than he already has. Now is the time to act. Running it back is the definition of insanity.

How does a healthy KAT command less than one coming off a mostly injured year? That makes no sense... and don't bring his max into it. Plenty of teams would be happy to pay the max for a healthy KAT. He's worth more than a lottery ticket.

In this instance, I happen to agree with SO_MONEY.

If Towns injures himself again, whatever value he gained back is lost. Then factor in how he will be labeled injury prone, diminishing it further.

And since we are discussing his value, one can see his numbers fell off last year, largely due to a couple of things -- the addition of Gobert and Edwards becoming the focal point of the offence. Neither of those things will change. Towns' numbers will not revert back to a couple seasons ago when he clearly was the face of the franchise.

Posters are banking on his health and efficient scoring. I wouldn't take that bet.

[urinesane]

It doesn't prevent them, it would just be stupid to do so. If you think a trade is going to improve the team and not affect the pick, then there is no reason to hold off BTW.

The picks are a sunk cost. I’m not in favor of trading Towns, but if I were, I’d say that the best time to trade him would be the 2024 trade deadline. He’ll likely have proven his health and have a better season without the illness and injury, and an off-season together.

Trading him at the deadline likely gets less of a return, plus you kind of need to know what you are getting in terms of picks, not gamble they might be while assigning value that might not actually exist, especially given this team's luck. I also wouldn't trade him going into owning a pick and I awouldn't let him devalue himself anymore than he already has. Now is the time to act. Running it back is the definition of insanity.

What is this politics? Are we going to attach nicknames to people now that we don't agree with?

When have I EVER had blind faith on this board? Just because I don't see things the way YOU do, I'm blind?

You filter all of your opinions through your fears and because of that everything gets filtered into negativity. Are you enjoying yourself in your world of "everything sucks and everyone else is wrong"? I watch this team, because I'm a sucker for an underdog and I enjoy it. When I stop enjoying it, I will stop doing it, because life is too short to go around being upset about things out of your control.

Also, why are you even posting here? You're an OKC fan according to your profile logo things, go bring your wisdom and sky is falling opinions to their board. The Wolves have plenty of people who constantly predict doom and gloom on the fanbase without you.

[urinesane]

Trading him at the deadline likely gets less of a return, plus you kind of need to know what you are getting in terms of picks, not gamble they might be while assigning value that might not actually exist, especially given this team's luck. I also wouldn't trade him going into owning a pick and I awouldn't let him devalue himself anymore than he already has. Now is the time to act. Running it back is the definition of insanity.

How does a healthy KAT command less than one coming off a mostly injured year? That makes no sense... and don't bring his max into it. Plenty of teams would be happy to pay the max for a healthy KAT. He's worth more than a lottery ticket.

In this instance, I happen to agree with SO_MONEY.

If Towns injures himself again, whatever value he gained back is lost. Then factor in how he will be labeled injury prone, diminishing it further.

And since we are discussing his value, one can see his numbers fell off last year, largely due to a couple of things -- the addition of Gobert and Edwards becoming the focal point of the offence. Neither of those things will change. Towns' numbers will not revert back to a couple seasons ago when he clearly was the face of the franchise.

Posters are banking on his health and efficient scoring. I wouldn't take that bet.

You and SO_MONEY are scared, that's fine... but it doesn't mean you are correct and that other people are wrong. It also doesn't mean that you are wrong and other people are correct, none of these things can be known... but I DO know one thing.

Acting out of fear never ends well.

The bolded part about KAT cannot be known at this point, you are simply projecting and eliminating the possibility of him returning to form in order to try and validate your own opinions. The difference between us is that I KNOW that I CANNOT KNOW, but I am also not willing to say definitively what WILL happen. I am just more open to the positive possibilities than you are, I've never once said that for sure nothing bad will happen, that is impossible to predict.

Also, I'm done with this topic and am going to take some time away from the board until training camp. None of us KNOWS sh*t and there's no point trying to get people to see a different side of things, I've said plenty on the subject and am bored of going around in circles.

[Norseman79]

How does a healthy KAT command less than one coming off a mostly injured year? That makes no sense... and don't bring his max into it. Plenty of teams would be happy to pay the max for a healthy KAT. He's worth more than a lottery ticket.

In this instance, I happen to agree with SO_MONEY.

If Towns injures himself again, whatever value he gained back is lost. Then factor in how he will be labeled injury prone, diminishing it further.

And since we are discussing his value, one can see his numbers fell off last year, largely due to a couple of things -- the addition of Gobert and Edwards becoming the focal point of the offence. Neither of those things will change. Towns' numbers will not revert back to a couple seasons ago when he clearly was the face of the franchise.

Posters are banking on his health and efficient scoring. I wouldn't take that bet.

You and SO_MONEY are scared, that's fine... but it doesn't mean you are correct and that other people are wrong. It also doesn't mean that you are wrong and other people are correct, none of these things can be known... but I DO know one thing.

Acting out of fear never ends well.

The bolded part about KAT cannot be known at this point, you are simply projecting and eliminating the possibility of him returning to form in order to try and validate your own opinions. The difference between us is that I KNOW that I CANNOT KNOW, but I am also not willing to say definitively what WILL happen. I am just more open to the positive possibilities than you are, I've never once said that for sure nothing bad will happen, that is impossible to predict.

Also, I'm done with this topic and am going to take some time away from the board until training camp. None of us KNOWS sh*t and there's no point trying to get people to see a different side of things, I've said plenty on the subject and am bored of going around in circles.

Enjoy your time off! Also, agree with Baseline and So_Money

[cmoss84]

All of you have interesting points. For me, the bottom line is we had a really good chance of beating Denver if we had Naz and Jaden. If you don't agree with that, I don't know what to tell you. If you do agree with that, we must of had a pretty good team.
I understand how complicated the KAT situation is. However, I am willing to bring this team back for one more shot...especially if we can find a way to sign Naz and Naw. If it doesn't work out, at least we gave it a fair chance and move on after next year. As long as KAt isn't injured all year, his trade value will still be pretty decent.

[shrink]

And since we are discussing his value, one can see his numbers fell off last year, largely due to a couple of things -- the addition of Gobert and Edwards becoming the focal point of the offence. Neither of those things will change. Towns' numbers will not revert back to a couple seasons ago when he clearly was the face of the franchise.

Posters are banking on his health and efficient scoring. I wouldn't take that bet.

It might help you worry less knowing that Towns best season statistically was 2017-18 when he was third on the team in FGA’s, behind Butler and Wiggins.

How good was Towns that year? He played 82 games, FG 54.5%, 3P 42.1%, 12.3 RB, 21.3 PPG. This put him in at second in the NBA in Win Shares, behind only MVP James Harden.

[Battletrigger]

And since we are discussing his value, one can see his numbers fell off last year, largely due to a couple of things -- the addition of Gobert and Edwards becoming the focal point of the offence. Neither of those things will change. Towns' numbers will not revert back to a couple seasons ago when he clearly was the face of the franchise.

Posters are banking on his health and efficient scoring. I wouldn't take that bet.

It might help you worry less knowing that Towns best season statistically was 2017-18 when he was third on the team in FGA’s, behind Butler and Wiggins.

How good was Towns that year? He played 82 games, FG 54.5%, 3P 42.1%, 12.3 RB, 21.3 PPG. This put him in at second in the NBA in Win Shares, behind only MVP James Harden.

You sure know that was 5 or 6 years ago. No COVID, no familiars dead, not everybody laughing at him, not injuries.

[twolves31]

https://sports.yahoo.com/portland-is-determined-to-improve-around-damian-lillard-and-holds-interest-in-bam-adebayo-145358329.html

One of the more interesting names on the trade market is Memphis point guard Tyus Jones. The Duke product has emerged as one of, if not the top reserve floor generals in the league, providing the Grizzlies with starter-level production whenever Memphis All-Star Ja Morant has been unavailable during their shared Grizzlies tenure. Jones could prove to be a valuable piece for Memphis after Morant was handed a 25-game suspension for what the NBA labeled conduct detrimental to the league. The Grizzlies, however, are exploring trade opportunities to help Jones land a full-time starting position elsewhere, league sources told Yahoo Sports, while Memphis has prioritized upgrading the team’s wing depth. Small forward Dillon Brooks is expected to sign elsewhere in free agency, where Houston continues to be the destination most often mentioned for Brooks by league personnel.

Jones had discussions with San Antonio last summer, sources said, before he re-signed with Memphis on a two-year, $29 million deal. The Spurs no longer appear to be a viable destination for Jones after his younger brother, Tre, emerged as San Antonio’s starting point guard last season ahead of his unrestricted free agency later this month. If Fred VanVleet heads elsewhere on the open market, would Tyus Jones plus draft capital be enough for Toronto to part with OG Anunoby? The Raptors are still said to be holding a steep asking price for their prized forward.

[shrink]

And since we are discussing his value, one can see his numbers fell off last year, largely due to a couple of things -- the addition of Gobert and Edwards becoming the focal point of the offence. Neither of those things will change. Towns' numbers will not revert back to a couple seasons ago when he clearly was the face of the franchise.

Posters are banking on his health and efficient scoring. I wouldn't take that bet.

It might help you worry less knowing that Towns best season statistically was 2017-18 when he was third on the team in FGA’s, behind Butler and Wiggins.

How good was Towns that year? He played 82 games, FG 54.5%, 3P 42.1%, 12.3 RB, 21.3 PPG. This put him in at second in the NBA in Win Shares, behind only MVP James Harden.

You sure know that was 5 or 6 years ago. No COVID, no familiars dead, not everybody laughing at him, not injuries.

Sometimes I wonder while I bother posting real world events when people are so desperate to defend their negative predictions of the future. Yes, every season is different, but Towns has demonstrated that his game can be very effective when he isn’t “clearly the face of the franchise,” so I thought you’d like to know that.

[Battletrigger]

The guy who is betting on a real GM, the GM that built the current NBA champs (not internet posters), is your “blind faith guy?”

It’s all projecting the future, but you prefer to believe internet posters over an actual, successful GM?

Man, if you post something maintain it, the mod here is not banning you to use another poster that not was in the discussion to tray to attack.

I don't believe neither in internet posters nor people who was in other franchises. I judge what I saw, not trying to cheer up due the success of another team I don't follow.

You are judging potential long term value of the trade (the picks given up) based on short term results. If the Wolves were a lottery team this season and gave up a top pick, you'd have a point... but they didn't. Had they NOT made the trade, they'd have missed the playoffs and wasted a year of Ant's playoff development.

The only person that is blind here is YOU, considering that you are only willing to judge the new POBO based on ONE move and ONE season, rather than his nearly 10 seasons with a team that is now the current champion (and a contender for multiple championships).

The goalposts keep changing. Last offseason when the trade happened, nobody knew Kessler would be as good as he was this soon, NOBODY. So how can you all of a sudden act like Connelly should have known? Monday morning QB crap, that's how.

People were super butthurt about losing Beasley, Vando, and PatBev, but outside of Vando being the same player he was in MN (with the same flaws that prompted him being included in the deal) Beasley and PatBev did not contribute to winning at the same level as Gobert, period. The Wolves were a #2 defense with Gobert on the floor, why does that get ignored? Because his shot is ugly?

The "super valuable" first round picks, that have always worked well for the Wolves, so far aren't really that impressive.

However, if you trade KAT for scraps and this team becomes a lottery team again, they will have a lot more value. If you allow them to run it back and they avoid major injuries, they can trade KAT or Gobert (they are not trading both) for pieces that can contribute now, rather than hoping they eventually turn into a good player.

The future picks only have value once they have a spot, until then they are just potential (and trade fodder).

Right now the Wolves gave up:
Walker Kessler
Beasley
Vando
PatBev
Leandro "6 points per season" Balmaro
#16 pick in the 2023 draft

The other picks cannot be judged yet, because if the Wolves continue to make the playoffs, they will be in the 15-30 range.

No man, I don't shot at him cause Kessler is fine. The draft is a chimera, too many suppotsly good players being a bust. That's the reason I'm not in the Towns for 3 wagon. I only would trade him for proven people .

But Connelly killed our flexibility and future picks for a bizarre experiment. Man, if you wanted that kind of deal, you have to look for a star that complements the team better and clearly improves the team. Like Siakam or Bridges.