The Andrew Wiggins Thread

[immortalone23]

I'm confused on why y'all might trade him. Wtf? We have the chance to build something special. Why tinker with that? Ask fans of a team like the Nets or Grizzlies if they'd want our core, they'd say yes. This is the type of core Philly wishes they had, other rebuilding teams would die to get guys like Towns or Wiggins.

The last two pages were an explanation of the reasoning. I'm not for or against it, but the logic is pretty clear. Don't trade Wiggins = some % chance at a long title window. Trade Wiggins for a star = window is shorter, but much higher chance there is one. Basically it comes down to you evaluation of Wiggins and whether you're a gambler or not.

Thanks. Personally, I'd love to see the core grow. I'd trade Wiggins for a guy like PG if that would ever happen.

[andyhop]

I was interested in looking what Wiggins could turn into if he ended up as a more efficient, low rebound ,low assist guy .

So did a search on BBref for players 6'6 or taller with a TS% >55, PTS/G >18, TRB% <10 and AST%<12 .( Wiggins is TS% 53,21 PTS/G,TRB% 6 and AST% 10 this season )

http://bkref.com/tiny/HmUcP

For those who don't want to click the link, the 5 player comparison seasons since 2010 are Gallinari (2016), Klay Thompson (14 and 16) and Kevin Martin (14 and 10)

[Saltine]

I was interested in looking what Wiggins could turn into if he ended up as a more efficient, low rebound ,low assist guy .

So did a search on BBref for players 6'6 or taller with a TS% >55, PTS/G >18, TRB% <10 and AST%<12 .( Wiggins is TS% 53,21 PTS/G,TRB% 6 and AST% 10 this season )

http://bkref.com/tiny/HmUcP

For those who don't want to click the link, the 5 player comparison seasons since 2010 are Gallinari (2016), Klay Thompson (14 and 16) and Kevin Martin (14 and 10)

Interesting thought... You left out Peja, Reggie Miller, and George Gervin.

[Devilzsidewalk]

I was interested in looking what Wiggins could turn into if he ended up as a more efficient, low rebound ,low assist guy .

So did a search on BBref for players 6'6 or taller with a TS% >55, PTS/G >18, TRB% <10 and AST%<12 .( Wiggins is TS% 53,21 PTS/G,TRB% 6 and AST% 10 this season )

http://bkref.com/tiny/HmUcP

For those who don't want to click the link, the 5 player comparison seasons since 2010 are Gallinari (2016), Klay Thompson (14 and 16) and Kevin Martin (14 and 10)

That's interesting, but I'd like to also take into account players that have proven to be high level scorers at such a young age - I ran a 3-point era search, perimeter players, minimum 20 ppg (leaderboard qualified), age 18-21.

There are 20 instances: Lebron 3x, Durant 3x, Melo 3x, AI, Rose, Isiah Thomas (the HOF one), Kobe, Kyrie, MJ, Gay, Marbury, McGrady, Tyreke Evans, and Wiggins this year.

*Second lowest PER of the group - sandwiched between Durant's rookie season and Melo's sophomore season.

*5th best free throw rate

*6th best off reb %

*2nd worst def reb% (marbury)

*2nd worst stl % (rose)

*8th best blk% - ahead of both of Lebron's first 2 years - I bring that up because Lebron faced a lot of criticism about his defense and didn't hit his stride till a few seasons in AND LOOK AT HIM NOW! Well, not now, BUT LOOK AT HIM 3 YEARS AGO!

*2nd best turnover % (McGrady)

*14th in usage

*16th in off rating

*LAST in def rating

*same story in win shares as off and def ratings

*whatever VORP is, he's last in that and the only player on the list that was a negative...sounds bad, whatever that is

[Devilzsidewalk]

I see 2 ways to look at it - either he's on the low end of the spectrum because he lacks skill and is getting his numbers almost on sheer athletic aggression, or he has great upside because he's accomplishing so much despite being so raw and that as he works on his game, his skills will catch up and he can start joining some of the better names on the list.

[Zeitgeister]

I see 2 ways to look at it - either he's on the low end of the spectrum because he lacks skill and is getting his numbers almost on sheer athletic aggression, or he has great upside because he's accomplishing so much despite being so raw and that as he works on his game, his skills will catch up and he can start joining some of the better names on the list.

Thanks for doing the leg work on that one. I think Wiggins does have a pretty good feel for scoring, combined with his athleticism he's able to draw a ton of fouls and is an above average finisher around the rim. What may seriously limit him though is if he does not improve his shooting. To really be a top tier perimeter scorer he's either going to have to take a larger percentage of shots at the rim and convert at a better rate or he's going to have to work in at least a decent three point shot. Outside of scoring, I think he really lacks feel for the game and his motor is also questionable. I think having a very unrefined skillset and a low motor is a very poisonous combination. It may be that he really starts to develop multiple skills that weren't there before but that's going to take a lot of hard work.

[Adenusi]

Very unimpressed with him. Thankfully we drafted Towns so I don't have to force myself to like Wiggins anymore.

[Tirion]

I was interested in looking what Wiggins could turn into if he ended up as a more efficient, low rebound ,low assist guy .

So did a search on BBref for players 6'6 or taller with a TS% >55, PTS/G >18, TRB% <10 and AST%<12 .( Wiggins is TS% 53,21 PTS/G,TRB% 6 and AST% 10 this season )

http://bkref.com/tiny/HmUcP

For those who don't want to click the link, the 5 player comparison seasons since 2010 are Gallinari (2016), Klay Thompson (14 and 16) and Kevin Martin (14 and 10)

That's interesting, but I'd like to also take into account players that have proven to be high level scorers at such a young age - I ran a 3-point era search, perimeter players, minimum 20 ppg (leaderboard qualified), age 18-21.

There are 20 instances: Lebron 3x, Durant 3x, Melo 3x, AI, Rose, Isiah Thomas (the HOF one), Kobe, Kyrie, MJ, Gay, Marbury, McGrady, Tyreke Evans, and Wiggins this year.

*Second lowest PER of the group - sandwiched between Durant's rookie season and Melo's sophomore season.

*5th best free throw rate

*6th best off reb %

*2nd worst def reb% (marbury)

*2nd worst stl % (rose)

*8th best blk% - ahead of both of Lebron's first 2 years - I bring that up because Lebron faced a lot of criticism about his defense and didn't hit his stride till a few seasons in AND LOOK AT HIM NOW! Well, not now, BUT LOOK AT HIM 3 YEARS AGO!

*2nd best turnover % (McGrady)

*14th in usage

*16th in off rating

*LAST in def rating

*same story in win shares as off and def ratings

*whatever VORP is, he's last in that and the only player on the list that was a negative...sounds bad, whatever that is

So it sounds like his floor is a borderline All-Star. That's a fine player, even if he doesn't make The Leap. I'll take it every day of the week and twice on Sundays. And if he does make The Leap...

[AttackTheRack]

Dude's played a TON of basketball in the last 18 months, or whatever. Taken a beating doing it, too. That takes a toll. A mixtape of Rubio missed layups and Wiggins dribbling blunders would be comedy GOLD, Jerry!

[packforfreedom]

Right now I would say potential wise: LaVine > Wiggins

[GopherIt!]

Wiggins for Greek Freak?

[NewWolvesOrder]

Wiggins for Greek Freak?

LOL, I'd go on record and say Bucks may turn down Wiggins/Middleton. They may do Parker though.

[Sugarless]

My concern with Wiggins is he has always had two great flaws in his game, in two of the most important areas for a basketball player, and he's barely improved them since his HS days. And BTW none of those is outside shooting, cause he will undoubtedly become an average 3-pt shooter sooner or later, like most scoring wings nowadays.

His real problems are:

1. His mindset. There's always been a big question mark regarding how often he gets disengaged from the games, and that hasn't changed one bit. He may be more agressive looking for his shot that some people expected coming out of college, but that doesn't mean he's engaged. He's still not working hard going through screens to get open looks, he's not making cuts (neither strong nor soft) to get himself open at the rim, he's not rebounding the ball nearly as much as he should, and above all, he's not showing any kind of consistent effort on defense.

2. His ballhandling. This is the area that is less mentioned when talking about Wiggins, and yet it's the aspect that is holding his game back offensively more than any other. You just cannot be such a below average ballhandler as a high usage wing on this league. You need to be able to put the ball on the floor and create if you want to be a real star. This is the main reason why a guy like Zach (even with his average handles and the fact that he can't post up like Andrew), looks like is closer than Wiggins to fulfilling his potential and becoming a real scoring threat in any given game. You need to be able to put the ball on the floor to get past your defender, find a teammate, or just create separation for your shot without having to fadeaway constantly.

[_AIJ_]

He's lazy. He WILL never reach his potential.

[NewWolvesOrder]

He's lazy. He WILL never reach his potential.

Wiggins often looks stoned to me. I wonder what his favorite pastime is. SuperCoolWig?

[NikolaPekovic]

You guys are funny.

[Klomp]

All the talk about trading Wiggins is ludicrous.

No, he's not the next Michael or LeBron. But who cares? Should we be calling for a trade for anyone who's not projected to be a top-5 player all-time? I don't care what he was projected to be coming out of high school, I care what he is right now. A 20-year old who is averaging 20 ppg, while still developing other facets of his game. Are there things he needs to improve? Of course. Every player in the NBA has something he needs to improve.

We have a young franchise big that we're building around. The last time around, we failed to do anything because we mismanaged the pieces around our franchise player. Wiggins is a helluva good second or third option for a franchise moving forward. Why should we trade that? Because of body language?? The Spurs would've traded Tim Duncan because of poor body language a long time ago if some of you were GM, but it's a good thing you're not.

[Foye]

All the talk about trading Wiggins is ludicrous.

No, he's not the next Michael or LeBron. But who cares? Should we be calling for a trade for anyone who's not projected to be a top-5 player all-time? I don't care what he was projected to be coming out of high school, I care what he is right now. A 20-year old who is averaging 20 ppg, while still developing other facets of his game. Are there things he needs to improve? Of course. Every player in the NBA has something he needs to improve.

We have a young franchise big that we're building around. The last time around, we failed to do anything because we mismanaged the pieces around our franchise player. Wiggins is a helluva good second or third option for a franchise moving forward. Why should we trade that? Because of body language?? The Spurs would've traded Tim Duncan because of poor body language a long time ago if some of you were GM, but it's a good thing you're not.

This. We have a trio of 20/21 y/o averaging 60+ ppg. None of them is getting traded.

[Crazy-Canuck]

It shouldnt come as a surprise.

With lavine improving and kat being kat, wiggs has been the guy getting picked on by media and fans. I dont think he is bothered by it though, hes a kid that gets more enjoyment from his teammates and friends successes than his own. Unfortunately, that isnt the personality trait that people want in their stars these days and it makes him an easy target.

[packforfreedom]

I think personality-wise KAT, Zach and Wiggy are a great fit. Can't have three Zachs or three Wiggins'