Butler has requested a trade, the saga continues

[TruthSerum]

Right now he is very good in losing talents.

Wouldn't that be Glen, also?
You know Thibs would have no problem maxing out Jimmy.

No, Glen has nothing to do with Butler. It was Thibs incompetence from very beginning which has turned whole franchise into the mess.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2796772-jimmy-butler-rumors-sg-wanted-155-million-contract-before-trade-request

The consensus view around the league is it's about the money. Jimmy said it's about money. Or rather, he said its about respect and being wanted, which just happens to be getting paid appropriately for what he brings to the table as the best player in a wolves uniform. So again, it's about the money that Glen has refused to offer him.

[minimus]

Wouldn't that be Glen, also?
You know Thibs would have no problem maxing out Jimmy.

No, Glen has nothing to do with Butler. It was Thibs incompetence from very beginning which has turned whole franchise into the mess.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2796772-jimmy-butler-rumors-sg-wanted-155-million-contract-before-trade-request

The consensus view around the league is it's about the money. Jimmy said it's about money. Or rather, he said its about respect and being wanted, which just happens to be getting paid appropriately for what he brings to the table as the best player in a wolves uniform. So again, it's about the money that Glen has refused to offer him.

1) Please, read article and imagine what should have MIN done to financially accomplish Butler requirements.
2) Why Thibs did not trade Butler at draft night? Just like any good GM in NBA?

[Dewey]

No, Glen has nothing to do with Butler. It was Thibs incompetence from very beginning which has turned whole franchise into the mess.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2796772-jimmy-butler-rumors-sg-wanted-155-million-contract-before-trade-request

The consensus view around the league is it's about the money. Jimmy said it's about money. Or rather, he said its about respect and being wanted, which just happens to be getting paid appropriately for what he brings to the table as the best player in a wolves uniform. So again, it's about the money that Glen has refused to offer him.

1) Please, read article and imagine what should have MIN done to financially accomplish Butler requirements.
2) Why Thibs did not trade Butler at draft night? Just like any good GM in NBA?

some people just need to put a name on that scapegoat out there...

[minimus]

he has proven himself very good in acquiring talent.

Right now he is very good in losing talents.

seriously what is wrong with you. no matter the facts you try to act like they are negative .

Facts?
KAT, Wiggins - both regressed ===> losing talent
Butler wants to leave ===> losing talent
Teague regressed ===> losing talent
Dieng regressed ====> losing talent
LaVine has monster season ====> losing talent
No extension talks for Tyus ===> about to lose talent
Bjelica left for nothing ====> losing talent

Rubio, two draft picks (Dunn, Markkanen) are currently looking bad. But once they figure out add them to this long list.

You might say: Rose, Gibson, Deng. Yes, they are plus additions. But none of them is more than temporary workaround for our problems.

[TruthSerum]

No, Glen has nothing to do with Butler. It was Thibs incompetence from very beginning which has turned whole franchise into the mess.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2796772-jimmy-butler-rumors-sg-wanted-155-million-contract-before-trade-request

The consensus view around the league is it's about the money. Jimmy said it's about money. Or rather, he said its about respect and being wanted, which just happens to be getting paid appropriately for what he brings to the table as the best player in a wolves uniform. So again, it's about the money that Glen has refused to offer him.

1) Please, read article and imagine what should have MIN done to financially accomplish Butler requirements.
2) Why Thibs did not trade Butler at draft night? Just like any good GM in NBA?

1) I've already commented on how Jimmy's request was a nonstarter because they would've had to gut the team (in september) to find enough cap space to renegotiate per the CBA.

2) Because Thibs isn't clairvoyant and your own article says Jimmy requested the renegotiation mere weeks before requesting the trade in September. Remember they offered Jimmy a 4-year deal that he turned down in July, as expected due to the pay scale. It was very cordial as I recall.

[KGdaBom]

Right now he is very good in losing talents.

seriously what is wrong with you. no matter the facts you try to act like they are negative .

Facts?
KAT, Wiggins - both regressed ===> losing talent
Butler wants to leave ===> losing talent
Teague regressed ===> losing talent
Dieng regressed ====> losing talent
LaVine has monster season ====> losing talent
No extension talks for Tyus ===> about to lose talent
Bjelica left for nothing ====> losing talent

Rubio, two draft picks (Dunn, Markkanen) are currently looking bad. But once they figure out add them to this long list.

You might say: Rose, Gibson, Deng. Yes, they are plus additions. But none of them is more than temporary workaround for our problems.

KAT has had his two best seasons the last two years. He even made an all NBA team last year. If he is moping around and not playing up to his ability I put that 10% on Thibodeau and 90% on KAT. Wiggins had his best season under Thibs, but proved that letting him be a leader was a losing move so Thibs wisely brought in a winner in Butler and made Wiggins less. Okogie is looking great. Rose on a vet minimum contract is a ridiculous bargain. Dunn was a bad pick, but Thibs used him in acquiring Butler. LaVine had a horrible season last year. He does look like he could be a huge scorer this year, but won't be a winner. Bjelica looking great so far in Sacto. We haven't lost Butler so his wanting to leave is irrelevant to Thibodeau and if he does leave it would be because of Glen. Wiggins is just starting a five year max contract because of Taylor when Thibs would have swapped him for something better. Probably keeping LaVine and the draft pick that would have been Markkanen. Quit trying to blame Thibodeau for Taylor's meddling. He can't help that.

[shrink]

The consensus view around the league is it's about the money. Jimmy said it's about money. Or rather, he said its about respect and being wanted, which just happens to be getting paid appropriately for what he brings to the table as the best player in a wolves uniform. So again, it's about the money that Glen has refused to offer him.

1) Please, read article and imagine what should have MIN done to financially accomplish Butler requirements.
2) Why Thibs did not trade Butler at draft night? Just like any good GM in NBA?

1) I've already commented on how Jimmy's request was a nonstarter because they would've had to gut the team (in september) to find enough cap space to renegotiate per the CBA.

2) Because Thibs isn't clairvoyant and your own article says Jimmy requested the renegotiation mere weeks before requesting the trade in September. Remember they offered Jimmy a 4-year deal that he turned down in July, as expected due to the pay scale. It was very cordial as I recall.

There is no indication whatsoever that Glen is unwilling to pay the 5 year deal. He has always paid (even overpaid) to try to get talent here. He is the reason the CBA even HAS a max deal, because of his huge deal to Garnett back in the day. Glen would not have traded LaVine, Dunn and #7 on a two year rental.

[King Malta]

1) Please, read article and imagine what should have MIN done to financially accomplish Butler requirements.
2) Why Thibs did not trade Butler at draft night? Just like any good GM in NBA?

1) I've already commented on how Jimmy's request was a nonstarter because they would've had to gut the team (in september) to find enough cap space to renegotiate per the CBA.

2) Because Thibs isn't clairvoyant and your own article says Jimmy requested the renegotiation mere weeks before requesting the trade in September. Remember they offered Jimmy a 4-year deal that he turned down in July, as expected due to the pay scale. It was very cordial as I recall.

There is no indication whatsoever that Glen is unwilling to pay the 5 year deal. He has always paid (even overpaid) to try to get talent here. He is the reason the CBA even HAS a max deal, because of his huge deal to Garnett back in the day. Glen would not have traded LaVine, Dunn and #7 on a two year rental.

But Shrink, Jimmy is the best player on the team and is totally faultless for destroying two locker rooms in the space of just over two seasons

[TruthSerum]

1) Please, read article and imagine what should have MIN done to financially accomplish Butler requirements.
2) Why Thibs did not trade Butler at draft night? Just like any good GM in NBA?

1) I've already commented on how Jimmy's request was a nonstarter because they would've had to gut the team (in september) to find enough cap space to renegotiate per the CBA.

2) Because Thibs isn't clairvoyant and your own article says Jimmy requested the renegotiation mere weeks before requesting the trade in September. Remember they offered Jimmy a 4-year deal that he turned down in July, as expected due to the pay scale. It was very cordial as I recall.

There is no indication whatsoever that Glen is unwilling to pay the 5 year deal. He has always paid (even overpaid) to try to get talent here. He is the reason the CBA even HAS a max deal, because of his huge deal to Garnett back in the day. Glen would not have traded LaVine, Dunn and #7 on a two year rental.

When was the last time Glen paid the Luxury Tax? Was Bush still president? I bet it's close to around then.
Fact is, there's no indication whatsoever that Glen is offering Jimmy 5yrs/$188M. None.
Now, maybe he can if KAT keeps sucking this year and misses All-NBA honors, Glen might be able to swing it.
$158M vs. $190M. Dump Dieng and Teague I can see it. Definitely doable, but the stars have to align.

[shrink]

1) I've already commented on how Jimmy's request was a nonstarter because they would've had to gut the team (in september) to find enough cap space to renegotiate per the CBA.

2) Because Thibs isn't clairvoyant and your own article says Jimmy requested the renegotiation mere weeks before requesting the trade in September. Remember they offered Jimmy a 4-year deal that he turned down in July, as expected due to the pay scale. It was very cordial as I recall.

There is no indication whatsoever that Glen is unwilling to pay the 5 year deal. He has always paid (even overpaid) to try to get talent here. He is the reason the CBA even HAS a max deal, because of his huge deal to Garnett back in the day. Glen would not have traded LaVine, Dunn and #7 on a two year rental.

When was the last time Glen paid the Luxury Tax? Was Bush still president? I bet it's close to around then.
Fact is, there's no indication whatsoever that Glen is offering Jimmy 5yrs/$188M. None.
Now, maybe he can if KAT keeps sucking this year and misses All-NBA honors, Glen might be able to swing it.
$158M vs. $190M. Dump Dieng and Teague I can see it. Definitely doable, but the stars have to align.

Taylor has paid the luxury tax when the Wolves could win, even when it was a desperate shot, like offering to overpay Sprewell.

But you said it’s been a long time, so let’s focus on more recent behavior. Two years ago, he overpaid Thibodeau too to get him here. Last year he gave Wiggins a max deal. This year he’s giving Towns a max deal, with a possible Designated Player Bump. Now you are saying there is no evidence that he spends? He is suddenly cheap and won’t give Jimmy Butler, the team’s best player, a max deal?

And even more than that, why would Taylor OK trading his three lottery pick players for a win-now Butler, if not for a two year rental?

Until you can answer these questions, the story you are trying to justify here seems to carry little credibility. It’s ironic you call yourself “Truth Serum” .. maybe that’s the joke in itself.

[PharmD]

Apparently Butler just no-showed the shootaround yesterday knowing he can't really be punished.

Jon Krawcynski:
When the team showed up to the arena on Friday morning for shootaround, Butler wasn’t there. Eyebrows raised. Shoulders shrugged. And word even quickly reached the Bucks that something was up with their opponent for the night.

About an hour after shootaround had concluded, the Wolves added Butler to the injury report with an illness and said he would be questionable for the game.

[TruthSerum]

There is no indication whatsoever that Glen is unwilling to pay the 5 year deal. He has always paid (even overpaid) to try to get talent here. He is the reason the CBA even HAS a max deal, because of his huge deal to Garnett back in the day. Glen would not have traded LaVine, Dunn and #7 on a two year rental.

When was the last time Glen paid the Luxury Tax? Was Bush still president? I bet it's close to around then.
Fact is, there's no indication whatsoever that Glen is offering Jimmy 5yrs/$188M. None.
Now, maybe he can if KAT keeps sucking this year and misses All-NBA honors, Glen might be able to swing it.
$158M vs. $190M. Dump Dieng and Teague I can see it. Definitely doable, but the stars have to align.

Last year he gave Wiggins a max deal. This year he’s giving Towns a max deal, with a possible Designated Player Bump. Now you are saying there is no evidence that he spends? He is suddenly cheap and won’t give Jimmy Butler, the team’s best player, a max deal?

Right there, you nailed it on the head. The money is gone. NBA teams are forced to spend, not to overspend. Nobody can force Glen to pay the luxury tax for the foreseeable future, a system that's much, much, much more punitive than he remembers it. I don't even understand why this is being argued. Glen already said major roster moves would have to made to keep Jimmy. What do you think he was talking about? It's either that or KAT being a baby. Either way Glen wouldn't be offering jimmy the max. Which he hasn't, from what I can tell reading between the lines. And it's not like my opinion is in the fringe. Quite the opposite.

[Rashodamus]

YESSSSSSSSS

2nd seed here we come boys

I hope this is sarcasm.

The only chance we have of even making the playoffs is trading Butler and firing Thibs immediately. Otherwise I see almost no way this team makes the playoffs, let alone #2 seed.

Nope, not sarcasm.

But saying a Jimmy-less team is capable of doing anything but get a top 5 lottery pick is a joke though

Are you seeing what the Jimmy led wolves will be like yet?

Like I said, 0% chance of making the playoffs with the cancer on the team. Nearly 0% if Butler was traded today and Thibs remained as the coach. The only chance we would have is a full Thibs/Butler removal combined with getting a contributing piece.

[shrink]

When was the last time Glen paid the Luxury Tax? Was Bush still president? I bet it's close to around then.
Fact is, there's no indication whatsoever that Glen is offering Jimmy 5yrs/$188M. None.
Now, maybe he can if KAT keeps sucking this year and misses All-NBA honors, Glen might be able to swing it.
$158M vs. $190M. Dump Dieng and Teague I can see it. Definitely doable, but the stars have to align.

Last year he gave Wiggins a max deal. This year he’s giving Towns a max deal, with a possible Designated Player Bump. Now you are saying there is no evidence that he spends? He is suddenly cheap and won’t give Jimmy Butler, the team’s best player, a max deal?

Right there, you nailed it on the head. The money is gone. NBA teams are forced to spend, not to overspend. Nobody can force Glen to pay the luxury tax for the foreseeable future, a system that's much, much, much more punitive than he remembers it. I don't even understand why this is being argued. Glen already said major roster moves would have to made to keep Jimmy. What do you think he was talking about? It's either that or KAT being a baby. Either way Glen wouldn't be offering jimmy the max. Which he hasn't, from what I can tell reading between the lines. And it's not like my opinion is in the fringe. Quite the opposite.

Ok, first, it’s a logical fallacy to appeal to the masses, to justify the truth of a statement. This is always true, but especially here. I will give you the credit to say that you and I both know that the reason the average person thinks Glen won’t pay the $190 is because they don’t understand the difference between a max extension and the higher max at the end of the year, and don’t understand why they can’t simply restructure his deal right now.

Second, I don’t like the way you’ve skipped into a new argument. First you argue Glen won’t pay because he’s cheap now. I show you that he hasn’t been cheap now, and you switch to, “now he’s spent too much!” Stick to one or the other.

Third, it has been repeated many times how the Wolves would plan to stay under the lux this season TO AVOID THE REPEATER. Everyone has planned that Jimmy would be re-signed for the max, and that the Wolves would be spending in the lux for many more years. This isn’t something new, nor is it something that wasn’t considered when Taylor agreed to trade the three lottery prospects for Butler.

Finally, why do you think that saying, “roster moves would need to be made to keep Jimmy,” means “roster moves won’t be made to keep Jimmy?”

I think you are clinging to an opinion, with no evidence, have seen that your basis for that opinion is on shaky grounds, and you’re desperately trying to grab at anything to justify it, in wilder and wilder stabs.

[shrink]

Apparently Butler just no-showed the shootaround yesterday knowing he can't really be punished.

Jon Krawcynski:
When the team showed up to the arena on Friday morning for shootaround, Butler wasn’t there. Eyebrows raised. Shoulders shrugged. And word even quickly reached the Bucks that something was up with their opponent for the night.

About an hour after shootaround had concluded, the Wolves added Butler to the injury report with an illness and said he would be questionable for the game.

Wow. This needs to end immediately.

[Reddy83]

Glen Taylor has proven himself incredibly incompetent.

Thibs as GM has proven himself incredibly incompetent. Fixed that for you.

This is a false dichotomy, one doesn't have to be true for the other to be false.

[Nick K]

I think what Jimmy is getting at is he's telling Thibs to trade Wiggins and pay him. Or, pay the luxury tax and keep all of them. In his mind he deserves top money with KAT.

Look at how poorly Thibs has managed the teams recources. Disaster.

[TruthSerum]

Last year he gave Wiggins a max deal. This year he’s giving Towns a max deal, with a possible Designated Player Bump. Now you are saying there is no evidence that he spends? He is suddenly cheap and won’t give Jimmy Butler, the team’s best player, a max deal?

Right there, you nailed it on the head. The money is gone. NBA teams are forced to spend, not to overspend. Nobody can force Glen to pay the luxury tax for the foreseeable future, a system that's much, much, much more punitive than he remembers it. I don't even understand why this is being argued. Glen already said major roster moves would have to made to keep Jimmy. What do you think he was talking about? It's either that or KAT being a baby. Either way Glen wouldn't be offering jimmy the max. Which he hasn't, from what I can tell reading between the lines. And it's not like my opinion is in the fringe. Quite the opposite.

Ok, first, it’s a logical fallacy to appeal to the masses, to justify the truth of a statement. This is always true, but especially here. I will give you the credit to say that you and I both know that the reason the average person thinks Glen won’t pay the $190 is because they don’t understand the difference between a max extension and the higher max at the end of the year, and don’t understand why they can’t simply restructure his deal right now.

Second, I don’t like the way you’ve skipped into a new argument. First you argue Glen won’t pay because he’s cheap now. I show you that he hasn’t been cheap now, and you switch to, “now he’s spent too much!” Stick to one or the other.

Third, it has been repeated many times how the Wolves would plan to stay under the lux this season TO AVOID THE REPEATER. Everyone has planned that Jimmy would be re-signed for the max, and that the Wolves would be spending in the lux for many more years. This isn’t something new, nor is it something that wasn’t considered when Taylor agreed to trade the three lottery prospects for Butler.

Finally, why do you think that saying, “roster moves would need to be made to keep Jimmy,” means “roster moves won’t be made to keep Jimmy?”

I think you are clinging to an opinion, with no evidence, have seen that your basis for that opinion is on shaky grounds, and you’re desperately trying to grab at anything to justify it, in wilder and wilder stabs.

My entire premise from the start is that Glen isn't offering the Jimmy the max he wants. $110M was very doable -- $188M not so much. If you opened the books you'd see that. This isn't something that can be cured by sharpening the pencil. They can barely build a decent team under the taxline next season as is, with KAT's $20M raise (if he doesn't make all-nba), and Jimmy at his current contract. And please, shrink, act like you have a partially functioning brain and quit trying to 'ad hom' my character in place of your faulty logic. It's beneath you.

[shrink]

He asked me if “I’d opened the books!” LOL!

Btw, you mis-used ad hominem, trying to sound smart! Irony.

[MN7725]

I think what Jimmy is getting at is he's telling Thibs to trade Wiggins and pay him. Or, pay the luxury tax and keep all of them. In his mind he deserves top money with KAT.

Look at how poorly Thibs has managed the teams recources. Disaster.

Was just listening to Windhorst on Bill Simmons podcast, that was exactly their (informed?) speculation

Butler was one of the guys along with Kemba that got extended in 2015 before the cap spike and are bitter about it