He averaged 49% fg avg 21.6pts per game in 3 wins and 34% fg avg 15.4pts per game in 9 losses.
Will it be easier for him to score in the NBA or more difficult? I wonder how many times those chest passes he calls a jumpshot will get stuffed next season...
I'm interested in players who will help the Wolves win. How does LaMelo help this team win exactly?
If people wanted to move on from Rubio, why would they be excited about Ball?
Easy answer:
Because if Rubio was 6’7, could make layups and dunk. Do you know how much better Ricky would be?
I am new to the wolves fan base was ricky good defensively at 19? Some act like Ball won’t improve there.
He was above average... ball below average ... time will tell.
I can see Ball go #1... just not sure who we’d trade down with ... we won’t pick and keep.
Flip response to Love wanting out, "He has no reason to be upset, you're either a part of the problem or a part of the solution"
I just hope Rosas isn't going to be another MN GM like Rick. Guys who what to be known a certain way and so keep working on that. Like Trader Rick, each draft gaining more and more picks, up to crazy numbers like 12 picks in a single draft. In the end it gets so pointless. I hope Rosas doesn't turn into a trading fool endlessly trading and never building anything. Every season would start out with hope and then by December/Jan they would be giving more minutes to the players they want to trade, for window shoppers, not concerned with winning or building a winning team. Hope not anyway. Not saying he shouldn't trade draft picks. Just saying at some point he's got to start bringing in players he plans to keep and build with.
1. Minnesota Timberwolves LaMelo Ball | 6-6 guard | 18 years old | Illawarra Hawks
For now, I’m sticking with Ball at No. 1. But I do so with little confidence. This pick comes with a larger degree of uncertainty than any No. 1 overall pick since the 2013 NBA Draft when the Cavaliers shocked the world and took Anthony Bennett at the top.
Why so much uncertainty? First and foremost, there is not a singular talent in this draft. Teams are all over the map in terms of who they like at the top. In that vein, the Timberwolves are doing due diligence on all of the top prospects. That also includes Ball, Anthony Edwards, and, yes, James Wiseman, despite the presence of Karl-Anthony Towns. I don’t think they’ll ultimately go the direction of Wiseman — hence why he’s not the pick here — but they’ve done enough work into him to where it would be wrong to totally take him off the table despite the positional overlap, per sources. Ultimately, though, this is kind of the issue for the Wolves. None of the three players who most executives consider to have the highest upside in this class particularly fit with the Wolves. Edwards and Ball are ball-dominant and poor defenders, skills that don’t particularly fit next to Towns and D’Angelo Russell. Wiseman is a center who would struggle to play with Towns even though his defensive prowess would help Minnesota.
So with that being said, there is a real feeling that the president of basketball operations, Gersson Rosas, is also looking into every conceivable trade avenue. Finding one that fits is going to be tricky. Because the league is generally down on the talent at the top, they aren’t placing quite as big of a premium on having the No. 1 overall pick as in normal years. In my estimation, a trade is still the best option for Minnesota, even if the return is a bit more muted than what we’ve seen in past No. 1 overall pick trades. Based more on logic than actual reporting, given Rosas’ tendency to maneuver and swing deals and based on what the team currently has on its roster, I’m absolutely not convinced that Minnesota will be the team picking at No. 1. And even if they do make the pick, it seems like from their decision to do work on all of the top prospects that they may just take the player they think has the best chance of maintaining long-term trade value. After all, Rosas comes from the Houston school of thought, where Daryl Morey tends to evaluate players not only based on what he thinks they can bring to his team, but based on what they could return down the road.
In general, this level of uncertainty just about a month away from draft night speaks to how Minnesota has done a great job of masking their intentions thus far by casting the net as wide as possible. There isn’t really a consensus industry-wide on what they’re going to do. That’s a credit to Rosas and company in what will likely be one of the most important decisions made of his tenure.
chaimer wrote:Good luck defending any legit playoff team with a lockdown trio of Russell, Towns and Toppin. It would be comical thing to see.
And Edwards/Ball are going to change this? The team right now without a Toppin is going to do what?
You could add Aaron Gordon like many fans talk about, and do you really think the defense will be that improved when his actual defensive numbers don't look good at all?
Facts are they have three picks in this draft. Could get a decent defending, maybe two way player out of one of those picks. There really appears to be a solid list of basketball players in this draft if people could take the hyped top 5 players off their mind for a second.
Far as I can tell about this 1-3-1 stuff so far and the 40 tres/g, they want to outscore the competition just as much or more than they want to defend great. I'm actually fine with starting with more consistent offensive production and working on team defense as they go if they have to.
Klomp wrote:Houston drafted Jeremy Lamb on June 28 and traded him on October 27. Cleveland drafted Andrew Wiggins on June 26 and traded him on August 23.
It's exactly how it works.
It's exactly how it works, sometimes.
It really doesn't. The players are not being drafted with the idea of trading them, they are picked and a James Harden or Kevin Love become available after the fact. The only exception to this is when players are drafted and then traded because the trade has to happen after the draft to be legal, then again we almost always know prior to the pick or shortly after that the player is being traded down the line. For instance a team may need to sign their pick to make salary work, delaying a trade a considerable period.
Your last line there, a team may need to sign their pick to make the salary work for the trade. Enter the need to sign Wiggins, which also kicked in a 30 day hold rule after the signing. Dubbed a "not often used rule" at the time. (not often used because draft choice trades for players usually happen the day of or day after the draft?, idk)
Anthony Bennet was 5.7, Wiggins was 5.5+, Love was 16?. MN took back a 7+ salary exception if memory serves. So not sure why it had to be a three team deal with Philly other than MN maybe wanted a PF(Young) to replace Love. For that, the Wolves had to kick in the 2015 frp(protected).
Love had openly demanded trade by January of that year and it was already known before that. Btw, Lebron had already courted him for a possible role in Cleveland before Lebron even left Miami. I feel certain that the Timberwolves and Caveliers had been talking about how to make this work for months before that draft took place.
Spoiler:
The Caveliers only signed Wiggins (#1 overall choice) to a two year deal guaranteed deal. I found that strange. But if you drafted a choice that another team made demands for while planning the trade, I can see why you wouldn't want to be locked into a deal with thatt player longer if by chance the deal evaporated for some reason before being consumated. My assumption all along has been that the Cavs drafted Andrew Wiggins that year on the suggestion by the Wolves. The once reported story that Cavs owner and Taylor finally agreed to Wiggins in the deal over a Summer League coffee chat I have always believed was pure fiction, that the Cavs "didn't want to give up Wiggins in the deal" was all fiction, and it was just salesman shows for the sake of the two franchises fanbases. Lebron was running that show and Love was coming there come hell or highwater.
I think we can safely at least say Love wasn't an example of a player just becoming available "after the draft".
Also, about the return value on Love trade...
Spoiler:
Love was thought of here, and in some circles around the league, as a Superstar player at the time. 26ppg then. This was an epic sales job handled with kids gloves to sell Love's prior fanbase on the fact they are getting nothing but a flunked former #1 overall, another shot in the dark new #1 overall, and a middling vet PF who was the same age as Love at the time. Timberwovles got the #1 player they wanted Cleveland to draft. I don't have many doubts. It was a classic Wolves pick throwing everything else below importance to the potential athletic prominance hoping to hit paydirt. Cleveland claiming they didn't want to include him in the deal for a while just adds to that fictional return value being sold to everyone. This was just a Lebron superteam building event and we were the suckers who even threw our own future FRP into the deal. A future MN 2015 FRP after trading away your best player sure looks to have a heck of a lot more expected value than a Thadeous Young return. But we traded Love for a Cleveland #1 overall. Good thing the team tanked 2014 badly enough to fall into protected range of #1 overall in 2015.
Averaged 17-7-7 and won the rookie of the year in a Grown man’s league. Him playing against other teenagers? He dominates.
He averaged that on beyond horrible shooting in a very poor grown man's league. No capital G required. He was also, one of the worst, if not the single worst defender in the league. Have a little perspective.
1. Minnesota Timberwolves LaMelo Ball | 6-6 guard | 18 years old | Illawarra Hawks
For now, I’m sticking with Ball at No. 1. But I do so with little confidence. This pick comes with a larger degree of uncertainty than any No. 1 overall pick since the 2013 NBA Draft when the Cavaliers shocked the world and took Anthony Bennett at the top.
Why so much uncertainty? First and foremost, there is not a singular talent in this draft. Teams are all over the map in terms of who they like at the top. In that vein, the Timberwolves are doing due diligence on all of the top prospects. That also includes Ball, Anthony Edwards, and, yes, James Wiseman, despite the presence of Karl-Anthony Towns. I don’t think they’ll ultimately go the direction of Wiseman — hence why he’s not the pick here — but they’ve done enough work into him to where it would be wrong to totally take him off the table despite the positional overlap, per sources. Ultimately, though, this is kind of the issue for the Wolves. None of the three players who most executives consider to have the highest upside in this class particularly fit with the Wolves. Edwards and Ball are ball-dominant and poor defenders, skills that don’t particularly fit next to Towns and D’Angelo Russell. Wiseman is a center who would struggle to play with Towns even though his defensive prowess would help Minnesota.
So with that being said, there is a real feeling that the president of basketball operations, Gersson Rosas, is also looking into every conceivable trade avenue. Finding one that fits is going to be tricky. Because the league is generally down on the talent at the top, they aren’t placing quite as big of a premium on having the No. 1 overall pick as in normal years. In my estimation, a trade is still the best option for Minnesota, even if the return is a bit more muted than what we’ve seen in past No. 1 overall pick trades. Based more on logic than actual reporting, given Rosas’ tendency to maneuver and swing deals and based on what the team currently has on its roster, I’m absolutely not convinced that Minnesota will be the team picking at No. 1. And even if they do make the pick, it seems like from their decision to do work on all of the top prospects that they may just take the player they think has the best chance of maintaining long-term trade value. After all, Rosas comes from the Houston school of thought, where Daryl Morey tends to evaluate players not only based on what he thinks they can bring to his team, but based on what they could return down the road.
In general, this level of uncertainty just about a month away from draft night speaks to how Minnesota has done a great job of masking their intentions thus far by casting the net as wide as possible. There isn’t really a consensus industry-wide on what they’re going to do. That’s a credit to Rosas and company in what will likely be one of the most important decisions made of his tenure.
1. Minnesota Timberwolves LaMelo Ball | 6-6 guard | 18 years old | Illawarra Hawks
For now, I’m sticking with Ball at No. 1. But I do so with little confidence. This pick comes with a larger degree of uncertainty than any No. 1 overall pick since the 2013 NBA Draft when the Cavaliers shocked the world and took Anthony Bennett at the top.
Why so much uncertainty? First and foremost, there is not a singular talent in this draft. Teams are all over the map in terms of who they like at the top. In that vein, the Timberwolves are doing due diligence on all of the top prospects. That also includes Ball, Anthony Edwards, and, yes, James Wiseman, despite the presence of Karl-Anthony Towns. I don’t think they’ll ultimately go the direction of Wiseman — hence why he’s not the pick here — but they’ve done enough work into him to where it would be wrong to totally take him off the table despite the positional overlap, per sources. Ultimately, though, this is kind of the issue for the Wolves. None of the three players who most executives consider to have the highest upside in this class particularly fit with the Wolves. Edwards and Ball are ball-dominant and poor defenders, skills that don’t particularly fit next to Towns and D’Angelo Russell. Wiseman is a center who would struggle to play with Towns even though his defensive prowess would help Minnesota.
So with that being said, there is a real feeling that the president of basketball operations, Gersson Rosas, is also looking into every conceivable trade avenue. Finding one that fits is going to be tricky. Because the league is generally down on the talent at the top, they aren’t placing quite as big of a premium on having the No. 1 overall pick as in normal years. In my estimation, a trade is still the best option for Minnesota, even if the return is a bit more muted than what we’ve seen in past No. 1 overall pick trades. Based more on logic than actual reporting, given Rosas’ tendency to maneuver and swing deals and based on what the team currently has on its roster, I’m absolutely not convinced that Minnesota will be the team picking at No. 1. And even if they do make the pick, it seems like from their decision to do work on all of the top prospects that they may just take the player they think has the best chance of maintaining long-term trade value. After all, Rosas comes from the Houston school of thought, where Daryl Morey tends to evaluate players not only based on what he thinks they can bring to his team, but based on what they could return down the road.
In general, this level of uncertainty just about a month away from draft night speaks to how Minnesota has done a great job of masking their intentions thus far by casting the net as wide as possible. There isn’t really a consensus industry-wide on what they’re going to do. That’s a credit to Rosas and company in what will likely be one of the most important decisions made of his tenure.
The bolded above gives me some hope.
I think Rosas had strongly hinted in the past (it was soon after the lottery) that the pick would be moved ... as time goes I think it will become more clearer he has a players/teams on his bucket list A, but if a trade don’t pan out, he will Naturally pivot and use the #1 pick regardless short-term or long-term intentions. Prolly the same concept with #17 pick. #1/#17/Filler package is respectable. I do agree he needs to help this team take that big step forward with an established player, but We all know we won’t get premium value ... we just don’t know what means yet.
Flip response to Love wanting out, "He has no reason to be upset, you're either a part of the problem or a part of the solution"
As somebody who has actually watched tape on LaMelo Ball, the repeatedly lame talking points surrounding his potential are killing me. I have explained it multiple times, but the dude objectively has an incredibly intriguing skillset, as a player. Dude is a passing phenom, creative finisher, has a pretty floater, and isn't the guaranteed defensive atrocity that people keep lazily assuming (he is bad because of technique, but has had flashes).
What is particularly intriguing is that, until his time in Australia, he had never received any real basketball training (dude didn't even perform a three-man weave, up until that point). His form is an atrocity, but it is encouraging that he is willing to shoot the ball; even becoming a mediocre shooter would immediately propel him to being a solid player.
There is certainly bust potential, but there is a reason why teams are interested in him. LaMelo Ball has MASSIVE flaws, but if there was not the background noise of his father existing, basketball fans would be far less ridiculous with their takes on him.
Frustrations aside, I could actually see Minnesota going with James Wiseman, for what it is worth. Pick-and-roll defense with Wiseman and Towns is a concern, and Wiseman is an unpolished passer, but if it is determined that he can shoot comfortably from range, he immediately becomes a serious contender at that top slot. His measurables are absurd.
Domejandro wrote: LaMelo Ball has MASSIVE flaws, but if there was not the background noise of his father existing, basketball fans would be far less ridiculous with their takes on him.
Because he would be an undrafted project and people wouldn't have to describe how sickoning it is to risk a #1 overall on such a project? To imagine having to pay 5 to 10 a year and meanwhile your team feels they have to play him some where between 25 minutes to Starting just to maintain that draft value at least fictionally for future trade options. And if he's just an average producer people will claim an extension must be maxed because of all the fake selling of him over the rookie years. Imagine all this for a player you have to reteach every skill to if we are to believe the people that say he's had no basketball training. And that's if you believe he's had no basketball training while being part of the Ball family with a father pushing his kids' futures this hard for the NBA game.
If only this was baseball and the Wolves could have signed him to a futures deal the day after he scored 90 points in a highschool game. But this is the NBA where you tank seasons entirely to earn chances for the #1. And this is the risky payoff?
It seems hard to believe now, but Obi Toppin could barely find a middle school or a junior high team that wanted him. He was short and scrawny. Toppin and Jacob used to ask Roni, who’s 5-foot-11, if they’d been switched at birth. Neither could dunk until the 12th grade.
“Everybody doubted Obi when he was young because he was small,” says Court Kingz founder Victor Martinez, who along with his brother Simon mentored Toppin when the family went through the arrest ordeal. “A lot of coaches here in Florida just brushed him off because he hadn’t hit that growth spurt yet. But we knew he was Obadiah’s son, and that guy was 6-foot-9 and handled the ball like Kevin Durant. Now you can see the genes. They’re both athletic freaks, and Obi is a monster.”
Toppin played for two Florida high schools before moving back to New York. He was a 6-foot-2 guard during his junior year at Ossining High School. He grew three inches by his senior year and averaged 20 points per game. But he barely played summer grassroots ball and never went to any of the shoe company showcases. Recruiters didn’t flock to Westchester County. And after moving to and from Florida, Toppin just wasn’t well known by local colleges.
