RealGM Wolves Capology

[shrink]

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I had never really considered hardcap before, because MIN was never close to any aprons, but I want to point out something.Right now, we haven’t done any action that hardcaps us, so we can do any action that raises our payroll, except for ones that are prohibited. For example, we could convert Jaylen Clark to a regular contract. It would raise our payroll, legally.

However, we can’t do an action that hardcaps us, that leaves our payroll over that apron AFTER the transaction is completed. The AFTER is the key part. For example, we are $17 mil over the second apron, but not hardcapped at either the first or second apron. If we wanted to do an $8 mil sign-and-trade for Tyus Jones, it would be illegal not because we are hardcapped now, but because after the transaction, payroll is $25 mil over that hardcap. We could do the deal if we sent out $25, and afterwards we’d be hardcapped at the second apron, unable to even add a vet min player if it took our payroll over that $189.5 hardcap.

I understand this is probably obvious stuff for many of you, but I thought I’d post in case others were struggling with it like me.

[Klomp]

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[winforlose]

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I had never really considered hardcap before, because MIN was never close to any aprons, but I want to point out something here.

Right now, we haven’t done any action that hardcaps us, so we can do any action that raises our payroll, except for ones that are prohibited. For example, we could convert Jaylen Clark to a regular contract. It would raise our payroll, and that would be legal.

However, we can’t do an action that hardcaps us, that leaves our payroll over that apron AFTER the transaction is completed. The AFTER is the key part. For example, we are $17 mil over the second apron, but not hardcapped at either the first or second apron. If we wanted to do an $8 mil sign-and-trade for Tyus Jones, it would be illegal not because we are hardcapped now, but because after the transaction, we’d have a payroll $25 mil over that hardcap. We could do the deal if we sent out $25, and afterwards we’d be hardcapped at the second apron, unable to even add a vet min player if it took our payroll over that $189.5 hardcap.

I understand this is probably obvious stuff for many of you, but I thought I’d post in case others were struggling with it like me.

The sign and trade for teams like us is what I was suggesting with Kyle and what the Suns are doing with JO. You sign a contract, wait 3 months, and trade the player for what you want (thus avoiding being hard capped.) In the case of Kyle let’s say he got his 9 million per year. We could trade for one player making less than 9, two players making less than 9 combined, or a TPE to be used to sign a buyout/waived player under the 12 million threshold. The modified sign and trade is the 2nd apron equivalent of the MLE or it is just the new sign and trade.

[shrink]

The sign and trade for teams like us is what I was suggesting with Kyle and what the Suns are doing with JO. You sign a contract, wait 3 months, and trade the player for what you want (thus avoiding being hard capped.) In the case of Kyle let’s say he got his 9 million per year. We could trade for one player making less than 9, two players making less than 9 combined, or a TPE to be used to sign a buyout/waived player under the 12 million threshold. The modified sign and trade is the 2nd apron equivalent of the MLE or it is just the new sign and trade.

Yes, I imagine when the CBA changes were being discussed, Golden State was complaining that new apron rules were unfair to their dynasty because they thought they should be able to keep all their players. You’ll note that the apron rules don’t prevent that. The rules shut down virtually every way for a team over the apron to add payroll EXCEPT to re-sign your own free agents, and with Bird rights you can pay them whatever you want, up to a max … if your owner is willing to pay the lux taxes. I’m with you, that I thought MIN should offer Kyle Anderson a discount deal to maintain that salary, either to use him or to trade him for pieces they needed. However, I would only have offered a deal up to the tax-payer MLE ($5.168), to make sure he was tradeable if the team needed to get off the salary. I question PHX signing Okogie for $8.25 mil because he is likely a vet min player, and like us, the Suns don’t have incentive to add to a trade to move that contract.

[winforlose]

The sign and trade for teams like us is what I was suggesting with Kyle and what the Suns are doing with JO. You sign a contract, wait 3 months, and trade the player for what you want (thus avoiding being hard capped.) In the case of Kyle let’s say he got his 9 million per year. We could trade for one player making less than 9, two players making less than 9 combined, or a TPE to be used to sign a buyout/waived player under the 12 million threshold. The modified sign and trade is the 2nd apron equivalent of the MLE or it is just the new sign and trade.

Yes, I imagine when the CBA changes were being discussed, Golden State was complaining that new apron rules were unfair to their dynasty because they thought they should be able to keep all their players. You’ll note that the apron rules don’t prevent that. The rules shut down virtually every way for a team over the apron to add payroll EXCEPT to re-sign your own free agents, and with Bird rights you can pay them whatever you want, up to a max … if your owner is willing to pay the lux taxes.

I’m with you, that I thought MIN should offer Kyle Anderson a discount deal to maintain that salary, either to use him or to trade him for pieces they needed. However, I would only have offered a deal up to the tax-payer MLE ($5.168), to make sure he was tradeable if the team needed to get off the salary. I question PHX signing Okogie for $8.25 mil because he is likely a vet min player, and like us, the Suns don’t have incentive to add to a trade to move that contract.

Yep, that is the risk. If you go too low you don’t get enough options when moving them. If you go too high you create a negative asset with a large tax bill attached that can really bite you. Finding the right contract size is a bit like gambling, high risk, high reward.

[Klomp]

The sign and trade for teams like us is what I was suggesting with Kyle and what the Suns are doing with JO. You sign a contract, wait 3 months, and trade the player for what you want (thus avoiding being hard capped.) In the case of Kyle let’s say he got his 9 million per year. We could trade for one player making less than 9, two players making less than 9 combined, or a TPE to be used to sign a buyout/waived player under the 12 million threshold. The modified sign and trade is the 2nd apron equivalent of the MLE or it is just the new sign and trade.

This idea floated around was at the same time that people thought we might trade down from 27.

Instead, we traded from out of the draft all the way up to 8, while keeping 27. These two players cost $8.8 million this season, essentially the same amount you were proposing they should add....

[younggunsmn]

2025-26
Gobert 46,655,173 (Player option)
Edwards 45,550,512
McDaniels 24,858,622
Divencenzo 11,990,000
Conley 10,774,038
Dillingham 6,576,120
Shannon 2,674,080
Garza 2,349,578
Miller 2,221,677
Minott 2,187,699
Vet min 2,296,271
Vet min 2,296,271
Vet min 2,296,271
Vet min 2,296,271
Total 165,022,593


Player Options
Randle 30,935,520
Reid 15,022,464

Free Agents
Alexander-Walker
Ingles
Bates-Diop

Restricted 2-way free agents
Nix
Clark

Draft picks:
2nd Round (Utah)
1st (Det, top 13 protected, very unlikely to convey)

10% Cap Bump scenario
Luxury tax line: 187,895,400
2nd Apron line: 207,824,100

tax line space: 22,872,807
2nd apron space: 42,801,507

[younggunsmn]

Should we get the maximum 10% cap bump,

We could potentially re-sign Naz for up to 25 million and stay out of the tax altogether,
or have about 45 million under the 2nd apron to comfortably re-sign Randle.

Should both walk, we would comfortably have room under the luxury tax to use the full MLE and the Bi annual Exception, use the 4.6 mil TPE from the KAT trade, or possibly re-sign NAW.

Had we not made the KAT trade, we would have had an additional 41,152,264 in salary,
bringing us to 206,174,728.
Right up against the 2nd apron even with a max cap bump,
before even considering re-signing Reid or NAW.

Since Gobert has a player option, there is an interesting scenario where he declines his player option and signs an extension where he makes it up on the back end.
Say he was willing to extend for 2 years at 25 million per year after picking up his player option, taking less money for security as he declines with age. Instead, he declines his player option and signs a 3 year/100 million extension starting at 30.9 million in the first year. This would save us a whopping 15.7 million on the 2025 cap.
It's kind of unlikely, but would give us greater flexibiilty.

If we are going to be a team that runs a salary budget that floats right around the tax line after the ownership struggle sorts itself out, as we traditionally have been and our market size kinda dictates, the KAT trade set us up to be able to do that without a huge teardown for at least the next 3 years.

We can offer Naz an extension next june starting at about 19.5 million before he hits free agency.
If he has a good year, that's probably not going to cut it.

Say we let Randle walk.
We can re-sign Naz to say Jaden's exact contract of 5/135, starting at 22.5, and have enough left over under the luxury tax to bring NAW back for 5 mil/year.

[frankenwolf]

Thanks younggunsmn

[younggunsmn]

10/20 Luxury Tax Update before final roster decision between KBD/Dozier.

According to Spotrac we are 32,714,447 over the tax line.
This includes paying tax on Julius Randle's trade kicker, which was paid by NY but we get charged tax for apparently.
Luxury Tax Calculations on 32,714,447

First 5.168 million 1.5/1: 7,752,000
2nd 5.168 million 1.75/1: 9.044,000
3rd 5.168 million 2.50/1: 12,920,000
4th 5.168 million 3.25/1: 16,796,000
5th 5.168 million 3.75/1: 19,380,000
6th 5.168 million 4.25/1: 21,964,000
Remaining 1,706,447 @4.75/1: 8,105,623

Total Tax Payments: 95,293,673

Total Outlay Salary + Luxury Taxes:
295,051,653

Dumping KBD's salary on another team would save us 12,135,460 in luxury tax (plus 2,654,644 in salary).
Waiving PJ Dozier, while not trading KBD, would save us 5,165,715 in luxury tax (plus 1,087,519 in salary).
Dumping KBD onto another team, plus waiving PJ Dozier, would save us 16,757,415 in luxury tax (plus 3,741,163 in salary).

Keeping in mind we could keep PJ Dozier on the roster until he earned his 1 million guarantee (until early January essentially) and then waive him, since his guarantee is already a sunk cost.

If it's true we are on the hook for Randle's trade kicker, that trade kicker cost us like 19 million dollars in tax.

[younggunsmn]

Updated for the Gobert Extension
2025-26
Gobert 35,000,000
Edwards 45,550,512
McDaniels 24,858,622
Divencenzo 11,990,000
Conley 10,774,038
Dillingham 6,576,120
Shannon 2,674,080
Garza 2,349,578
Miller 2,221,677
Minott 2,187,699
Vet min 2,296,271
Vet min 2,296,271
Vet min 2,296,271
Vet min 2,296,271
Total 153,367,420


Player Options
Randle 30,935,520
Reid 15,022,464

Free Agents
Alexander-Walker
Ingles

Restricted 2-way free agents
Nix
Clark

Draft picks:
2nd Round (Utah)
1st (Det, top 13 protected, very unlikely to convey)

10% Cap Bump scenario
Luxury tax line: 187,895,400
2nd Apron line: 207,824,100

tax line space: 34,527,980
2nd apron space: 54,456,680

[The KnicksFix]

I thought Knick fans understood the cap, wolves fans are wizards with understanding it

[frankenwolf]

I thought Knick fans understood the cap, wolves fans are wizards with understanding it

That comes from years of suffering through 20 win seasons (if we were lucky) and needing something to occupy time

[Klomp]

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[shrink]

I think Dane has this stuff all wrong. First, cap holds are holds against the cap, so you don’t use cap space unfairly. We are not a cap space team. His cap hold matters just as much as the $27.9 mil cap hold we have on Evan Turner. Second, we can’t use a full MLE at $14.1 non-taxpayer MLE, because we would only be $3.2 under the luxury threshold. If we choose to use that exception, we can only use $3.2 of it. At least the tax-payer is $5.7, and we could use all of that.

[moss_is_1]

I think Dane has this stuff all wrong.

First, cap holds are holds against the cap, so you don’t use cap space unfairly. We are not a cap space team. His cap hold matters just as much as the $27.9 mil cap hold we have on Evan Turner.

Second, we can’t use a full MLE at $14.1 non-taxpayer MLE, because we would only be $3.2 under the luxury threshold. If we choose to use that exception, we can only use $3.2 of it. At least the tax-payer is $5.7, and we could use all of that.

Say we keep Randle, but we trade NAW at the deadline for an expiring and some sort of picks(doubtful a first but maybe a couple 2nds). Would we be able to re-sign Naz and use the mle on someone? Or do we also have to try and unload Randle? Basically is there any scenario we could keep Randle, Naz and sign an MLE level free agent?

[shrink]

I think Dane has this stuff all wrong.

First, cap holds are holds against the cap, so you don’t use cap space unfairly. We are not a cap space team. His cap hold matters just as much as the $27.9 mil cap hold we have on Evan Turner.

Second, we can’t use a full MLE at $14.1 non-taxpayer MLE, because we would only be $3.2 under the luxury threshold. If we choose to use that exception, we can only use $3.2 of it. At least the tax-payer is $5.7, and we could use all of that.

Say we keep Randle, but we trade NAW at the deadline for an expiring and some sort of picks(doubtful a first but maybe a couple 2nds). Would we be able to re-sign Naz and use the mle on someone? Or do we also have to try and unload Randle? Basically is there any scenario we could keep Randle, Naz and sign an MLE level free agent?

Many believe that MIN will aim to keep their payroll under the second apron next year, which is projected to be $207.8 mil.

But the MLE is based on whether your team is over the luxury threshold, projected to be $187.9 mil. If you’re over that number, you only get the tax-payer MLE of $5.7 mil. In addition, if you are using the non-tax MLE of $14.1 mil, you can’t use it to take your payroll over the lux. So that means the starting payroll before using the full MLE would need to be $173.8.

Can we make $207.8 with Randle and Naz? Yes.

Can we make $173.8 with Randle and Naz, to have $14.1 to use the full MLE? $34 mil in payroll less? Doubtful.

[Klomp]

Lately, I've seen on Twitter multiple times people who believe Connelly could keep the band together because the repeater penalties don't get really bad unless you're in the second apron 3 out of 5 years. Can anyone explain which penalties go into effect then?

[shrink]

This site does a wonderful job giving you the tax penalties, repeater, and includes the changes next year.

https://www.salaryswish.com/luxury-tax

[shrink]

This may be obvious for most, but I also wanted to mention that while so much fan focus is on the aprons, the luxury tax is a completely different thing. If MIN a tried to stay under the second apron next year, it’s projected at $207.8 mil. If the team tries to duck under the luxury tax, our total team payroll could only be $187.9 mil. Last year, the team wisely laid up just under the luxury tax, so even though we are way into it, it’s just year one. Repeater starts in year three.

But … If you toggle the Salary Swish years, you can see that the new CBA has reduced the penalty for teams that only go $10 mil over the lux, but once teams exceed that, the multiplier increases significantly. The next bracket ($10-$15 over the luxury) increases from $2.5 to $3.5, and the $15-$20 multiplier increases from $3.25 to $4.75! So if a team in that position really wants to add a $5 mil player, he’s going to cost the owner $28 mil!