The Fire Rosas Thread

[jpatrick]

DLo trade and Culver pick are the two big blunders in my eyes for Rosas so far. I still think he can be a good PBO. Can’t have another poor season next year though. Have to at least fight for the playoffs.

[SuperCoolBeas8]

Yup. And even if Thompson was out next year, I still don't think GS agrees. Wiggins has turned into their defensive specialist who can get 18 ppg.

Really? Have you looked at his stats? I wouldn't call him a defensive specialist unless you mean it in the same manner as Okogie is the Wolves' defensive specialist.

Agreed! Let’s see how this season plays out before we officially judge this trade. Wiggins was not a good fit with our team. D’lo is much better for us. I think an Ant, KAT & Dlo core should make the playoffs next year.

[shangrila]

I still remember Wiggins being the worst contract in the league and requiring two 1sts to move him. Even now giving up the 7th pick, I'm still fine with the trade.

Culver was a serious screw up but after that they seemed to have hit on damn near every other pick (Nowell, Edwards, McDaniels) so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on that.

[King Malta]

If any player ever proves the bias people have against evaluating players on small to medium market teams vs big market teams, it's Wiggins. The guy is basically the exact same player except he's now hidden behind Curry and Green and somehow he's a changed man who's value has increased substantially since he left the talent graveyard that is MN.

It's really quite funny.

[Neeva]

If any player ever proves the bias people have against evaluating players on small to medium market teams vs big market teams, it's Wiggins. The guy is basically the exact same player except he's now hidden behind Curry and Green and somehow he's a changed man who's value has increased substantially since he left the talent graveyard that is MN.

It's really quite funny.

It’s not funny it’s sad.

[Rookie-Mistake]

Has everyone forgotten how bad that Wiggins contract was?

Sheesh.. pick 7 and Wiggins to get off that contract and keeping kat happy is win....


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[shrink]

If any player ever proves the bias people have against evaluating players on small to medium market teams vs big market teams, it's Wiggins. The guy is basically the exact same player except he's now hidden behind Curry and Green and somehow he's a changed man who's value has increased substantially since he left the talent graveyard that is MN.

It's really quite funny.

Yes. This is one of my biggest annoyances on the Trade Board, when a GSW fan last month said that Wiggins should make 1st Team All Defense “or the voters are all morons,” or last week when another said be wouldn’t trade him for Khris Middleton straight up, or yesterday when one mocked an offer of the #10, Bledsoe and Adams.

[Foye]

Has everyone forgotten how bad that Wiggins contract was?

Sheesh.. pick 7 and Wiggins to get off that contract and keeping kat happy is win....

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D'Lo contract is just as bad and you gave up a great pick in the process. That trade still seems to be among the worst trades in recent memory.

[Rookie-Mistake]

Vehemently disagree with you.
And I'll leave it at that.

Has everyone forgotten how bad that Wiggins contract was?

Sheesh.. pick 7 and Wiggins to get off that contract and keeping kat happy is win....

Sent from my SM-G991B using RealGM mobile app

D'Lo contract is just as bad and you gave up a great pick in the process. That trade still seems to be among the worst trades in recent memory.

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[Foye]

Vehemently disagree with you.
And I'll leave it at that.

Has everyone forgotten how bad that Wiggins contract was?

Sheesh.. pick 7 and Wiggins to get off that contract and keeping kat happy is win....

Sent from my SM-G991B using RealGM mobile app

D'Lo contract is just as bad and you gave up a great pick in the process. That trade still seems to be among the worst trades in recent memory.

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Great way to gloss over.

[Baseline81]

D'Lo contract is just as bad and you gave up a great pick in the process. That trade still seems to be among the worst trades in recent memory.

I'll give you that it's a top-10 pick, however, I wouldn't classify it as a great pick when the majority believe the upcoming draft is top-4 or -5 deep when it comes to star talent. Obviously, all-star players can be found even in the second round...

[Dewey]

Has everyone forgotten how bad that Wiggins contract was?

Sheesh.. pick 7 and Wiggins to get off that contract and keeping kat happy is win....


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Yes you gotta roll the dice and swap spit once in a while … not having the #7 pick is the least of this franchises problems.

[_AIJ_]

This thread is just pure comedy

[TheZachAttack]

The post-hoc rationalizing, re-writing of narratives, and idea that Wiggins has changed as a player is laughable. Wiggins is a 4th/5th option that is being paid as a max player. The Warriors have a better defensive structure and organization and thus Wiggins looks better within that structure. Warriors fans go to boards and say we like Wiggins because he's solid, when that's the same reason the Wolves wanted to get rid of him. We paid Wiggins to be a franchise cornerstone and he wasn't, so from that lens he was bad, but that doesn't mean he was a below average player... just a below average star. None of that has changed. No amount of Warrior or mainstream fans pushing different narratives with a lack of nuanced understanding of Wiggins, the situation, or why different narratives are being pushed changes that.

Moses Moody or Davion Mitchell for DeAngelo Russel is not bad value. You are all losing your minds over a player that is likely going to be no better than a role player. Andrew Wiggins and Crowder or Andrew Wiggins and Okogie for Russell (the most likely type of 50-75th percentile outcome even with this pick given the talent drop-off after 5 and even from 6 to 7) is not something to wring your hands about.

Move on and move forward. We control our picks going forward and can use that to draft a player next year or potentially as ammo to trade for another veteran. We can add Bolmaro as a late-lottery pick this year who is going to be roughly as good or at least have roughly the same chance as being good as Moses Moody or whoever we would pick at 7.

[Worm Guts]

The issue is that Russell really isn't much if any better than Wiggins and we gave up a top 10 pick to make that swap. It was a bad trade. We've been a worse team since we made it. No reason to dwell on it, because we can't change it, but it is dishonest to pretend that it's anything other than a bad trade.

[TheZachAttack]

The issue is that Russell really isn't much if any better than Wiggins and we gave up a top 10 pick to make that swap. It was a bad trade. We've been a worse team since we made it. No reason to dwell on it, because we can't change it, but it is dishonest to pretend that it's anything other than a bad trade.

I guess I disagree. Russell can create his own shot and create for others in the half-court from a primary ball-handler position in a way that Wiggins cannot (he may be able to shoot alright playing as a spacer though we'll see if that holds). That, in it of itself, and what that does and the importance of that in a modern NBA offense is HUGE. Russell is a whole different category of player than Wiggins, though there may be teams that would rather have Wiggins than Russell--the Wolves are not one of them. At the very least, the Wolves at the stage they were at when they made the Russell trade were not one of them and I would argue now still.

The Wolves, if they have any chance of being good, need a perimeter player who can create his own shot and hit perimeter shots off the dribble coming from a primary ball-handler position. We weren't going anywhere until we got that and Wiggins was not that guy and never will be despite some success in a quasi-role similar to what Edwards played last season as a ball dominant scorer.

[Baseline81]

The issue is that Russell really isn't much if any better than Wiggins and we gave up a top 10 pick to make that swap. It was a bad trade. We've been a worse team since we made it. No reason to dwell on it, because we can't change it, but it is dishonest to pretend that it's anything other than a bad trade.

What you were expecting to receive in exchange for Wiggins?

Both the franchise and the player needed a split. Because of the length remaining on his max contract, I recall seeing it would take two first round picks. He was generally considered one of the worst contracts in the league.

I will agree, Russell isn't great, but he fits better -- need for a scoring PG and keeping Towns happy.

[Worm Guts]

The issue is that Russell really isn't much if any better than Wiggins and we gave up a top 10 pick to make that swap. It was a bad trade. We've been a worse team since we made it. No reason to dwell on it, because we can't change it, but it is dishonest to pretend that it's anything other than a bad trade.

I guess I disagree. Russell can create his own shot and create for others in the half-court from a primary ball-handler position in a way that Wiggins cannot (he may be able to shoot alright playing as a spacer though we'll see if that holds). That, in it of itself, and what that does and the importance of that in a modern NBA offense is HUGE. Russell is a whole different category of player than Wiggins, though there may be teams that would rather have Wiggins than Russell--the Wolves are not one of them. At the very least, the Wolves at the stage they were at when they made the Russell trade were not one of them and I would argue now still.

The Wolves, if they have any chance of being good, need a perimeter player who can create his own shot and hit perimeter shots off the dribble coming from a primary ball-handler position. We weren't going anywhere until we got that and Wiggins was not that guy and never will be despite some success in a quasi-role similar to what Edwards played last season as a ball dominant scorer.

Russell for Wiggins straight up might have been a good trade for the Wolves (or maybe not considering how often Russell has been injured). Adding any first round pick was a mistake. I do think giving up the 7th pick is a big deal. The Wolves need to make a difference with the assets they have, and in this case they gave away a good one.

[minimus]

The issue is that Russell really isn't much if any better than Wiggins and we gave up a top 10 pick to make that swap. It was a bad trade. We've been a worse team since we made it. No reason to dwell on it, because we can't change it, but it is dishonest to pretend that it's anything other than a bad trade.

I disagree. The issue with Wiggins ist that he does not fit next to Towns. Even in GSW behind Curry back Wiggins cant consistenly score. Is he a better defender now? Yes, but PHI had Thybulle+Simmons two All NBA Defensive Team players + Embiid, they could not win against ATL. Same with MIL, they have Giannis+Holiday+Tucker, but were a inch close to defeat in KD clutch shot. KD played with NBA bench level players and injured Griffin. It is offensive-minded league right now. Wiggins defense is solid but not enough in current league. Curry historic season was impressive, but kind of hides real GSW problems, and one of them is still Wiggins performance for money.

We have a unique offensive player in Towns, by playing him next to Wiggins we could ruin his career. That duo had no chemistry. How it can be possible that Ant without preseason and full training camp improved better after every game with Towns while Wiggins reamained basically the same player? Not to mention that DLo and Towns duo is miles better in terms of fit than KAT-Wiggins.

[TheZachAttack]

The issue is that Russell really isn't much if any better than Wiggins and we gave up a top 10 pick to make that swap. It was a bad trade. We've been a worse team since we made it. No reason to dwell on it, because we can't change it, but it is dishonest to pretend that it's anything other than a bad trade.

I guess I disagree. Russell can create his own shot and create for others in the half-court from a primary ball-handler position in a way that Wiggins cannot (he may be able to shoot alright playing as a spacer though we'll see if that holds). That, in it of itself, and what that does and the importance of that in a modern NBA offense is HUGE. Russell is a whole different category of player than Wiggins, though there may be teams that would rather have Wiggins than Russell--the Wolves are not one of them. At the very least, the Wolves at the stage they were at when they made the Russell trade were not one of them and I would argue now still.

The Wolves, if they have any chance of being good, need a perimeter player who can create his own shot and hit perimeter shots off the dribble coming from a primary ball-handler position. We weren't going anywhere until we got that and Wiggins was not that guy and never will be despite some success in a quasi-role similar to what Edwards played last season as a ball dominant scorer.

Russell for Wiggins straight up might have been a good trade for the Wolves (or maybe not considering how often Russell has been injured). Adding any first round pick was a mistake. I do think giving up the 7th pick is a big deal. The Wolves need to make a difference with the assets they have, and in this case they gave away a good one.

We didn't give up the 7th pick. We ended up giving up a top-3 protected FRP that ended up being the 7th pick. The reason it's the 7th pick is because the team's top 2 players have missed >50% of the time since the trade otherwise it would not have been the 7th pick. You wouldn't get Russell without giving up a FRP. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want to play that game further, given that Wiggins was healthy the whole stretch...the Wolves wouldn't even have the 7th pick. I'd go further and say that I don't think the 7th pick in this pick is all that valuable in this draft. I don't think it's meaningfully different in terms of the value of player being selected than most years get selected in the 10-15+ range, but that's not really a compelling argument.

I just don't understand the post-hoc logic at all. Okay, you think the trade would have been better if we didn't give up a first pick. Sounds good, but how does that matter at all? The Wolves are in a better position going forward for multiple reasons because they have Russell versus Wiggins. Offensive scheme, locker room culture with Towns, etc, etc, etc.