The Donte "Big Ragu" DiVincenzo Thread

[Klomp]

I have noticed in the last two wins they have been playing Donte with Mike more, and with mostly positive results.

[winforlose]

Not sure this is new, but thought I would share it. https://youtu.be/xKVbQ6lr3w4?si=KZpmajOrjyLV51Id

[Loaf_of_bread]

We need this guy if we plan on turning things around. Have to give him run..

[winforlose]

We need this guy if we plan on turning things around. Have to give him run..

Yes but in what role. He has proven that running the point kills his shooting. He also tends to drive into traffic, get caught in the air, and throw live ball turnovers. Playing off ball means he is moving Ant to the PG or SF and that has consequences as well. I honestly think the best DDV lineup is one without Randle or Ant. Conley/DDV/NAW/Naz/Rudy seems to be his sweet spot. Jaden can replace NAW but everything else seems pretty necessary if you want to get him back on track. The question is will that carry over.

P.S. DDV cannot be a starter on this team because Ant is always going to be ahead of him at SG. DDV has proven he cannot thrive at PG and soon Dilly will grow into the PG1 role. DDV could play SF, but NAW and Jaden are both more valuable overall for their on ball defense. If DDV needs to be a starter we should not have acquired him.

[Loaf_of_bread]

We need this guy if we plan on turning things around. Have to give him run..

Yes but in what role. He has proven that running the point kills his shooting. He also tends to drive into traffic, get caught in the air, and throw live ball turnovers. Playing off ball means he is moving Ant to the PG or SF and that has consequences as well. I honestly think the best DDV lineup is one without Randle or Ant. Conley/DDV/NAW/Naz/Rudy seems to be his sweet spot. Jaden can replace NAW but everything else seems pretty necessary if you want to get him back on track. The question is will that carry over.

P.S. DDV cannot be a starter on this team because Ant is always going to be ahead of him at SG. DDV has proven he cannot thrive at PG and soon Dilly will grow into the PG1 role. DDV could play SF, but NAW and Jaden are both more valuable overall for their on ball defense. If DDV needs to be a starter we should not have acquired him.

Ddv as a pg is out of the question, and he’s not starting. But, we need his shooting if it returns. While frustrating, this guy does seem to have an ego problem, and appears pouty.. needs run to stay engaged.

[cmoss84]

NAW, Ant, Jaden, Naz, Rudy- starting 5
Mike, DD, Randle next 3

[shrink]

Andrew Dukowitz from Zone Coverage made an interesting point about Donte that I hadn’t considered.

I think we’re all aware that Donte struggles when he’s asked to play PG, which isn’t his natural position. But what I didn’t notice is that if you’re asking him to play PG, that means he isn’t out there playing with a PG!

He’s been terrific on previous teams, but that was with elite table-setters like Steph Curry and Jalen Brunson. Donte isn’t even getting to play many minutes with Mike Conley! Hopefully, as Rob Dillingham gets more minutes, it will magnify Donte’s impact.

[shrink]

I’m not sure how we maintain the current rotation to magnify Donte’s impact though.

Personally I think you need to weld Conley to Gobert so that he becomes an offensive threat. Donte would fit well with both, spreading the floor, but you obviously can’t start above Ant.

Maybe you start with a line up of

Conley-Ant-McDaniels-Randle-Gobert

(then give our older players a quick rest 6 minutes in)

NAW-Ant-McDaniels-Randle-Naz

(then bring Donte back in with Mike and Rudy while Ant rests at 9 minutes)

Mike-DDV-NAW-Naz-Gobert

(which is statistically one of the NBA’s best five man rotations?)

That still seems like a long time to keep DDV on the bench before he enters the game.

Also, as I mentioned in the previous post, if Rob Dillingham starts getting more minutes whenever Mike sits, that may mean better quality minutes for Donte.

[minimus]

Andrew Dukowitz from Zone Coverage made an interesting point about Donte that I hadn’t considered.

I think we’re all aware that Donte struggles when he’s asked to play PG, which isn’t his natural position. But what I didn’t notice is that if you’re asking him to play PG, that means he isn’t out there playing with a PG!

He’s been terrific on previous teams, but that was with elite table-setters like Steph Curry and Jalen Brunson. Donte isn’t even getting to play many minutes with Mike Conley! Hopefully, as Rob Dillingham gets more minutes, it will magnify Donte’s impact.

Good point. Although I would say that in general MIN have no structure in offense. Having a steady pass first point guard generally means a structured offense, having an elite playmaker (someone who is either an elite scorer or/and ballhandler or/and decision maker) usually means having a structure in offense as well. Having a top tier coaching staff and veterans ballhanders also help.

MIN is not there yet.

[Guest84]

Donte seems to be a player who needs significant playing time to see the benefits. He's simply not getting that here. When he does get time, he's not getting consistent opportunities to work himself into a rhythm. It may be a long stretch from one touch to the other.

It's been said before but I don't think we can keep him and Naw going forward. Too much of a log jam at the sg position. Especially considering our star player is an sg. TC will have some tough decisions to make going forward.

[winforlose]

Donte seems to be a player who needs significant playing time to see the benefits. He's simply not getting that here. When he does get time, he's not getting consistent opportunities to work himself into a rhythm. It may be a long stretch from one touch to the other.

It's been said before but I don't think we can keep him and Naw going forward. Too much of a log jam at the sg position. Especially considering our star player is an sg. TC will have some tough decisions to make going forward.

Naz is the same way and he just won 6th man of the year. Guys will usually adapt their game to survive at this level. DDV is injury insurance for both Ant, Jaden, NAW, Conley, Dilly, and more. I think the biggest issues for DDV are mental and the team dumping Randle and gelling more around defense will help him as well.

[younggunsmn]

It's becoming apparent to me that DDV has been overhyped since coming over in the trade due to one good playoff series against the bottom of the barrel defensively Pacers.
Partly because of that series, partly because he was erroneously seen as the key piece of the awful return for KAT.

He's a slightly above average bench wing who can get hot for stretches.
And he needs to play off of good shot creators to get the most out of him.

New York undoubtedly sold him at peak value.
His modest contract will make him worth keeping around, but he's not the solution to anything.
He's our 7th-8th most important player depending on how you consider him vs NAW.

[winforlose]

It's becoming apparent to me that DDV has been overhyped since coming over in the trade due to one good playoff series against the bottom of the barrel defensively Pacers.
Partly because of that series, partly because he was erroneously seen as the key piece of the awful return for KAT.

He's a slightly above average bench wing who can get hot for stretches.
And he needs to play off of good shot creators to get the most out of him.

New York undoubtedly sold him at peak value.
His modest contract will make him worth keeping around, but he's not the solution to anything.
He's our 7th-8th most important player depending on how you consider him vs NAW.

1. His best trait is his volume 3 point shooting. If he can get back to that level he is at least Malik Beasley.

2. DDV plays decent defense. He might not be NAW or Jaden level, but he is far above Beasley.

3. DDV plays better with extended minutes. This means he is injury insurance for the SG, but can also defend the PG and SF. If anyone goes down DDV gets more minutes, more rhythm and thus justifies his position. But he is not worth KAT.

[TheZachAttack]

It's becoming apparent to me that DDV has been overhyped since coming over in the trade due to one good playoff series against the bottom of the barrel defensively Pacers.
Partly because of that series, partly because he was erroneously seen as the key piece of the awful return for KAT.

He's a slightly above average bench wing who can get hot for stretches.
And he needs to play off of good shot creators to get the most out of him.

New York undoubtedly sold him at peak value.
His modest contract will make him worth keeping around, but he's not the solution to anything.
He's our 7th-8th most important player depending on how you consider him vs NAW.

1. His best trait is his volume 3 point shooting. If he can get back to that level he is at least Malik Beasley.

2. DDV plays decent defense. He might not be NAW or Jaden level, but he is far above Beasley.

3. DDV plays better with extended minutes. This means he is injury insurance for the SG, but can also defend the PG and SF. If anyone goes down DDV gets more minutes, more rhythm and thus justifies his position. But he is not worth KAT.

He's a better flow player than Beasley and like you said a better defender. By flow player, I mean someone who can attack moving defenses and keep rotation going. If only he could make 3's... I'm not sure I have ever seen worse bricks.

[winforlose]

It's becoming apparent to me that DDV has been overhyped since coming over in the trade due to one good playoff series against the bottom of the barrel defensively Pacers.
Partly because of that series, partly because he was erroneously seen as the key piece of the awful return for KAT.

He's a slightly above average bench wing who can get hot for stretches.
And he needs to play off of good shot creators to get the most out of him.

New York undoubtedly sold him at peak value.
His modest contract will make him worth keeping around, but he's not the solution to anything.
He's our 7th-8th most important player depending on how you consider him vs NAW.

1. His best trait is his volume 3 point shooting. If he can get back to that level he is at least Malik Beasley.

2. DDV plays decent defense. He might not be NAW or Jaden level, but he is far above Beasley.

3. DDV plays better with extended minutes. This means he is injury insurance for the SG, but can also defend the PG and SF. If anyone goes down DDV gets more minutes, more rhythm and thus justifies his position. But he is not worth KAT.

He's a better flow player than Beasley and like you said a better defender. By flow player, I mean someone who can attack moving defenses and keep rotation going. If only he could make 3's... I'm not sure I have ever seen worse bricks.

DDV seems to have little of Naz and a little of Jaden in him, and not the good parts. Naz is historically much better when starting and playing 30+ minutes. That rhythm player archetype seems to at least partially fit DDV. Now Naz won 6th man with that, so DDV isn’t doomed, but it might lower his ceiling. As for the Jaden stuff, we have seen Jaden go through slumps when his head isn’t on right. DDV seems to be that same archetype of player. He wants to start, wants to play catch and shoot, and doesn’t want to attack off the dribble often. All of these things are seemingly causing him to be in his head and hurting his shooting.

[wolves_89]

Two things standout so far with Donte's play. First he needs to make 3s at a rate around 40%. Hopefully his shot will get on track sooner rather than later. Second, he needs to stop driving into traffic because he turns it over in those situations at way too high a rate. I think if he could do those two things he would be a huge net positive going forward.

[Klomp]

It's becoming apparent to me that DDV has been overhyped since coming over in the trade due to one good playoff series against the bottom of the barrel defensively Pacers.
Partly because of that series, partly because he was erroneously seen as the key piece of the awful return for KAT.

He's a slightly above average bench wing who can get hot for stretches.
And he needs to play off of good shot creators to get the most out of him.

New York undoubtedly sold him at peak value.
His modest contract will make him worth keeping around, but he's not the solution to anything.
He's our 7th-8th most important player depending on how you consider him vs NAW.

Your point about the Pacers is fair, albeit incomplete. He was very solid in the first round series too, as he was in the last 20 games of the regular season. It wasn't just a random blip of a hot stretch. It may have peaked then, but it was a part of very solid play for a very long stretch. From the sounds of it too, Connelly and Finch had liked him for a long time. So it's definitely not a Jonny Flynn situation where one performance was all it took to be sold on him.

I don't think he was ever thought of as "the solution". People who think others believe that are just hearing what they want to hear.

[winforlose]

I am gonna ask a stupid question. I know it is stupid so please just answer it rather than attacking it. If you could waive a wand and DDV’s entire talent set became Malik Beasley’s talent set, would you make that change? I ask because at this point a defensively capable version of Beasley seems like the role for DDV. Unless I am missing something.

[Klomp]

I think viewing Donte as a "Malik Beasley" is doing him a disservice even if it is recognized that he is a better player. There is more to Donte's impact than just his jump shot, but that seems to be the only thing he's been judged on in his time here. His defense is very good, and he has one of his best career defensive ratings as a result. He moves the ball, with his career high assisting as proof. In a lot of ways, he is the safety blanket of the second unit that Finch lost in Kyle Anderson. I do think his shot will come around in time. But in the meantime, he's still a valuable piece of the rotation.

[Klomp]

After the Timberwolves got a final defensive stop to preserve their win, DiVincenzo was interviewed in the arena as the player of the game. The sellout crowd hollered “Donte! Donte! Donte!” as he answered questions, a warm and well-earned embrace from a fan base that has been waiting to see this version of him.

“It was super cool,” DiVincenzo said with a wide smile.

And he left it at that. No need to compare it to what he heard in New York. That is in the past. There are new memories to make.

“Just let go. Just go play. This is home. I want to be here,” DiVincenzo said. “There’s nothing else outside of that. It’s not (speculation) that I don’t want to be here. It’s not (people saying) that I’m p—-ed off. No. I’m happy as hell.

“My family’s here. I’m raising my family here. It’s a beautiful city. I want to be here. Now, just go play.”

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6026132/2024/12/30/donte-divincenzo-timberwolves-knicks-nba/