Re: Trade Talk (Part Twelve): 2023 Playoff Push Edition

[thinktank]

Thank you for continuing this dialogue!

Haliburton’s jumper being awesome when you said it wouldn’t be is YOUR track record and YOU’RE the one making this goofy statement that Zion’s injury history AND his off court behavior are the ONLY reason a team wouldn’t take a chance on him. LOL.

Those things both point to you being goofy. They are data about YOU.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but weren't you someone who liked Obi Toppin?

For a minute, but prior to draft I went on record saying I preferred Okongwu to Toppin.

(It’s totally OK to be wrong, btw. Said Love would never win a championship but I was wrong—he eeked by on Lebron’s greatest playoff performance of all time.)

[SO_MONEY]

Oh you poor baby! It’s tough out here in the world of discourse. People have opinions of your opinions and stuff.

Bully playing victim because they are confronted. This is totally about you having opinions.

Correct. Injuries aren’t the only reason a team would say no to Zion. Which is to say, I disagree with what you said.

And that's the only reason someone of his age, talent and ability is even possibly available.

And the only reason teams would decline.

False. Teams would avoid Zion for off-the-court reasons also—reasons that have nothing to do with his on-court availability.

It’s that simple. You have a MAJOR problem with me disagreeing with you and that’s YOUR problem, not mine. So if anyone is a playing a victim, it’s YOU.

I already covered this, it is all linked. True

[Calinks]

I didn't say that.

I think it is all linked as I previously said.

So the ONLY reason teams would decline is EVERYTHING bad about Zion.

Which is EVERYTHING that keeps him off the court, so yes. Anything else? Any other stupid questions or gotchas that really aren't? Go away.

So Money. You don't have to aggressively badger people to argue with them. Some of the discussions around here are getting out of hand, lay off the personal attacks, insults to users, and hostile attitudes. This is a general warning to all posters, keep it civil.

[TimberKat]

How difficult is it to say "we can agree to disagree" and not make it personal?

It's very difficult for some people unfortunately. Also, there are some that are unwilling to admit mistakes and gets deeper and deeper into a rabbit hole. All part of online posts.

[SO_MONEY]

So the ONLY reason teams would decline is EVERYTHING bad about Zion.

Which is EVERYTHING that keeps him off the court, so yes. Anything else? Any other stupid questions or gotchas that really aren't? Go away.

So Money. You don't have to aggressively badger people to argue with them. Some of the discussions around here are getting out of hand, lay off the personal attacks, insults to users, and hostile attitudes. This is a general warning to all posters, keep it civil.

He is the bully and is being treated as such. All he is doing is hunting for an argument. He has been doing this for years probably not just to me and if RealGM has a harassment policy you might want to advise him of it and see if he comports himself in the future.

[fattymcgee]

Which is EVERYTHING that keeps him off the court, so yes. Anything else? Any other stupid questions or gotchas that really aren't? Go away.

So Money. You don't have to aggressively badger people to argue with them. Some of the discussions around here are getting out of hand, lay off the personal attacks, insults to users, and hostile attitudes. This is a general warning to all posters, keep it civil.

He is the bully and is being treated as such. All he is doing is hunting for an argument. He has been doing this for years probably not just to me and if RealGM has a harassment policy you might want to advise him of it and see if he comports himself in the future.

You're accusing him of bullying? LOL!
You are a sad human being.

[SO_MONEY]

So Money. You don't have to aggressively badger people to argue with them. Some of the discussions around here are getting out of hand, lay off the personal attacks, insults to users, and hostile attitudes. This is a general warning to all posters, keep it civil.

He is the bully and is being treated as such. All he is doing is hunting for an argument. He has been doing this for years probably not just to me and if RealGM has a harassment policy you might want to advise him of it and see if he comports himself in the future.

You're accusing him of bullying? LOL!
You are a sad human being.

There is a difference between me being stubborn and abrupt and being a bully, nothing I do is with malace... except with him, I won't tolerate his crap, his lies, unprovoked insults whatever. I have drawn a line after years of it. Everyone else I wish them the world (you included) I am just debating with them for entertainment.

[Baseline81]

Rumor is that Tim Connolly is trying to trade into the first round. If the team is truly rolling it back, there’s not a lot to offer:

Taurean Prince $7.65 mil expiring. (maybe he starts in MEM or POR?)

Wendell Moore Jr, 26th pick, 2022 draft
Josh Minott, 45th pick, 2022 draft. Hinkie Special. Connolly said he thinks of the project as his 2023 1st.

Sign-and-trade candidate Naz Reid (if a team wants to outbid the cap space teams). NAW too.

Second Round picks
2023: #53
2024: least favorable between MEM and WAS
2025: UTA
2026: UTA
2026: least favorable between SA, MIA, IND

It’s doubtful any single asset could bring a first back on its own, so what would we package?

Two teams that might be looking to move a late first are CHA (2, 27, 34, 39, 41) and IND (7, 26, 29, 32, 55).

There goes those two picks:

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[thinktank]

So Money. You don't have to aggressively badger people to argue with them. Some of the discussions around here are getting out of hand, lay off the personal attacks, insults to users, and hostile attitudes. This is a general warning to all posters, keep it civil.

He is the bully and is being treated as such. All he is doing is hunting for an argument. He has been doing this for years probably not just to me and if RealGM has a harassment policy you might want to advise him of it and see if he comports himself in the future.

You're accusing him of bullying? LOL!
You are a sad human being.

In-good-faith: honesty or sincerity of intention.

I LOVE talking bball in good faith.

Let’s get back on-track, speaking of in-good-faith.

Zion could play 82 games and STILL not fit a team, for a variety of reasons:

1. That team may not want their other young players to be exposed to a party animal like Zion appears to be.
2. He doesn’t space the floor. That’s important at the PF position these days.
3. He’s not a plus defender. Also important at PF these days.
4. Zion isn’t cheap. If you’re looking to build a team, you can find a lot of what Zion brings (mainly scoring), and quite a bit of what he doesn’t bring (defense, floor-spacing), without having to pay 33 million starting next year and ending at 40+ million.
5. Can Zion take a backseat to another player? We don’t really know. There’s some risk there, and I personally feel like Zion wants to be the man.

[Klomp]

Rumor is that Tim Connolly is trying to trade into the first round. If the team is truly rolling it back, there’s not a lot to offer:

Taurean Prince $7.65 mil expiring. (maybe he starts in MEM or POR?)

Wendell Moore Jr, 26th pick, 2022 draft
Josh Minott, 45th pick, 2022 draft. Hinkie Special. Connolly said he thinks of the project as his 2023 1st.

Sign-and-trade candidate Naz Reid (if a team wants to outbid the cap space teams). NAW too.

Second Round picks
2023: #53
2024: least favorable between MEM and WAS
2025: UTA
2026: UTA
2026: least favorable between SA, MIA, IND

It’s doubtful any single asset could bring a first back on its own, so what would we package?

Two teams that might be looking to move a late first are CHA (2, 27, 34, 39, 41) and IND (7, 26, 29, 32, 55).

Thought exercise: We're all conditioned to believe we cannot trade any 1sts. However, if before the draft we traded our 2024 1st for a 2023 1st, wouldn't that fulfill the requirements of the Stepien Rule? I believe 2023 is still technically considered a future draft until it happens...

[Klomp]

It has been awfully quiet on the rumor mill regarding Towns. I can't determine if no dialogue signals it's not open for discussion, or if everyone is being extra tight-lipped.

[thinktank]

It has been awfully quiet on the rumor mill regarding Towns. I can't determine if no dialogue signals it's not open for discussion, or if everyone is being extra tight-lipped.

That’s how Connelly wants it.

[Klomp]

It has been awfully quiet on the rumor mill regarding Towns. I can't determine if no dialogue signals it's not open for discussion, or if everyone is being extra tight-lipped.

That’s how Connelly wants it.

Is it though? For weeks leading up to the draft and free agency last year, we heard about the team discussing centers like Clint Capela, Myles Turner and yes even Rudy Gobert.

[shrink]

Thought exercise: We're all conditioned to believe we cannot trade any 1sts. However, if before the draft we traded our 2024 1st for a 2023 1st, wouldn't that fulfill the requirements of the Stepien Rule? I believe 2023 is still technically considered a future draft until it happens...

No. The Stepien Rule states that a team can’t do a trade that could leave us without a first round pick in the next two drafts. That would leave us without a pick in 24 and 25.

[Klomp]

Thought exercise: We're all conditioned to believe we cannot trade any 1sts. However, if before the draft we traded our 2024 1st for a 2023 1st, wouldn't that fulfill the requirements of the Stepien Rule? I believe 2023 is still technically considered a future draft until it happens...

No. The Stepien Rule states that a team can’t do a trade that could leave us without a first round pick in the next two drafts. That would leave us without a pick in 24 and 25.

What I was saying is I believe that until tomorrow, 2023 is still technically a future draft. So I wondered if we could potentially trade the 2024 pick if we got a 2023 pick in return. But yes, I think we would probably need a 24 or 25 in return in order to make that legal. Bummer.

[thinktank]

It has been awfully quiet on the rumor mill regarding Towns. I can't determine if no dialogue signals it's not open for discussion, or if everyone is being extra tight-lipped.

That’s how Connelly wants it.

Is it though? For weeks leading up to the draft and free agency last year, we heard about the team discussing centers like Clint Capela, Myles Turner and yes even Rudy Gobert.

We’ll never know. I recall rumors about Cs but not much about Gobert. I remember feeling like it came out of the blue, but what do I know?

[shrink]

Thought exercise: We're all conditioned to believe we cannot trade any 1sts. However, if before the draft we traded our 2024 1st for a 2023 1st, wouldn't that fulfill the requirements of the Stepien Rule? I believe 2023 is still technically considered a future draft until it happens...

No. The Stepien Rule states that a team can’t do a trade that could leave us without a first round pick in the next two drafts. That would leave us without a pick in 24 and 25.

What I was saying is I believe that until tomorrow, 2023 is still technically a future draft. So I wondered if we could potentially trade the 2024 pick if we got a 2023 pick in return. But yes, I think we would probably need a 24 or 25 in return in order to make that legal. Bummer.

I like the concept though. Like DEN has just done, MIN should lean into using future assets to put talent on the floor right now, to see what they’ve got.

And I’ve tried in the past to get clarification when the moment the “next draft” designation actually begins. Maybe it’s when the draft opens and the first pick is made? Maybe it’s when pick 60 is done? Maybe it’s when YOUR team’s last pick is made, and YOUR draft is over? I asked a couple experts, and got different answers, so I’m still not sure.

[EDIT: I am going to go with “when the draft starts.” It dawns on me that we have seen that when the draft starts, the seven year rule immediately allows that new pick 7 years out to be traded, so I’m going to assume that applies to Stepien as well.]

[wolves_89]

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The extra $3M before hitting the luxury tax line could have an actual impact on the Wolves off-season.

[minimus]

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I guess both Delon Wright and Monte Morris are available

[Klomp]

I guess both Delon Wright and Monte Morris are available

Monte Morris for Prince and 53?