Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST)

[andyhop]

Actually that offer is the ballpark. 2 firsts or 1st and a promising young player. A 22 year old backup center who recently had a 20/10 game counts. Moreover, Naz’s numbers are solid during the times KAT was out and he was starting. If you are giving up Turner you need someone to replace him, and that could be Naz.

If they are replacing Turner they will want defense so not Naz, and getting off Beasley probably costs you a first so the deal you are proposing is Naz who doesn't fit on the Pacers for Turner which is an obvious non starter

Beasley is not a toxic contract. He is to make the money work and expiring next year. What does a rebuilding team want, expiring deals they can trade for picks. As for Naz, who says they will want defense as opposed to scoring? Naz is 22 and emerging as a shot blocker. Give him minutes and develop him who knows. Naz is a young player, Beasley or prince for the money, and a first. It is exactly what they asked for.

Naz is a poor defender plays the same position as the guy who the Pacers are looking to build around if they keep Sabonis and trade Turner, I doubt they would value him very highly .

Beasley is a bad contract when playing to his normal standard and is playing well below that now maybe due to his off court issues derailing his preparation to the season.

The offer isn't close to what it would take to get Turner

[winforlose]

If they are replacing Turner they will want defense so not Naz, and getting off Beasley probably costs you a first so the deal you are proposing is Naz who doesn't fit on the Pacers for Turner which is an obvious non starter

Beasley is not a toxic contract. He is to make the money work and expiring next year. What does a rebuilding team want, expiring deals they can trade for picks. As for Naz, who says they will want defense as opposed to scoring? Naz is 22 and emerging as a shot blocker. Give him minutes and develop him who knows. Naz is a young player, Beasley or prince for the money, and a first. It is exactly what they asked for.

Naz is a poor defender plays the same position as the guy who the Pacers are looking to build around if they keep Sabonis and trade Turner, I doubt they would value him very highly .

Beasley is a bad contract when playing to his normal standard and is playing well below that now maybe due to his off court issues derailing his preparation to the season.

The offer isn't close to what it would take to get Turner

Naz is a starter level center on several teams and does much better with more minutes. At 22 and on a good contract who are they gonna get instead? They use Sabonis at the 4 with Turner at the 5. Naz can fill that. Btw, Naz is averaging one block and when given minutes has shown he is capable of getting more. They want a young talent, not an established 26 or 27 year old making a ton of money.

Beasley is an excellent contract because he is expiring next season. Rebuilding teams want these type of contracts because they can move them to other teams in exchange for long term bad contracts with picks. They then move those bad contracts at the end of rebuild and get role players. Beasley is being moved for the money and the value of an expiring next year.

[Klomp]

You can’t play him and Vando together.

Unless you are benching Karl-Anthony Towns, no big we acquire has to worry about playing major chunks of time next to Jarred Vanderbilt. It is either Towns and Vanderbilt or Towns and the new guy as our starters.

[andyhop]

Beasley is not a toxic contract. He is to make the money work and expiring next year. What does a rebuilding team want, expiring deals they can trade for picks. As for Naz, who says they will want defense as opposed to scoring? Naz is 22 and emerging as a shot blocker. Give him minutes and develop him who knows. Naz is a young player, Beasley or prince for the money, and a first. It is exactly what they asked for.

Naz is a poor defender plays the same position as the guy who the Pacers are looking to build around if they keep Sabonis and trade Turner, I doubt they would value him very highly .

Beasley is a bad contract when playing to his normal standard and is playing well below that now maybe due to his off court issues derailing his preparation to the season.

The offer isn't close to what it would take to get Turner

Naz is a starter level center on several teams and does much better with more minutes. At 22 and on a good contract who are they gonna get instead? They use Sabonis at the 4 with Turner at the 5. Naz can fill that. Btw, Naz is averaging one block and when given minutes has shown he is capable of getting more. They want a young talent, not an established 26 or 27 year old making a ton of money.

Beasley is an excellent contract because he is expiring next season. Rebuilding teams want these type of contracts because they can move them to other teams in exchange for long term bad contracts with picks. They then move those bad contracts at the end of rebuild and get role players. Beasley is being moved for the money and the value of an expiring next year.

They are moving Turner because they want to get away from playing 2 C offering them the chance to do it with a much lesser version isn't going to fly.

[winforlose]

Naz is a poor defender plays the same position as the guy who the Pacers are looking to build around if they keep Sabonis and trade Turner, I doubt they would value him very highly .

Beasley is a bad contract when playing to his normal standard and is playing well below that now maybe due to his off court issues derailing his preparation to the season.

The offer isn't close to what it would take to get Turner

Naz is a starter level center on several teams and does much better with more minutes. At 22 and on a good contract who are they gonna get instead? They use Sabonis at the 4 with Turner at the 5. Naz can fill that. Btw, Naz is averaging one block and when given minutes has shown he is capable of getting more. They want a young talent, not an established 26 or 27 year old making a ton of money.

Beasley is an excellent contract because he is expiring next season. Rebuilding teams want these type of contracts because they can move them to other teams in exchange for long term bad contracts with picks. They then move those bad contracts at the end of rebuild and get role players. Beasley is being moved for the money and the value of an expiring next year.

They are moving Turner because they want to get away from playing 2 C offering them the chance to do it with a much lesser version isn't going to fly.

On the contrary, they are blowing it up. They are looking to trade away LeVert, and Sabonis, and maybe Brogdon as well. They want picks, young players, and expiring contracts from this year and next. If they fail to move Sabonis now they can plug Naz next to Sabonis and give him minutes.

[winforlose]

You can’t play him and Vando together.

Unless you are benching Karl-Anthony Towns, no big we acquire has to worry about playing major chunks of time next to Jarred Vanderbilt. It is either Towns and Vanderbilt or Towns and the new guy as our starters.

I don’t know how you can say that with such authority. It would be silly to bench V8 when he is one of the best offensive rebounders in the league, and one of our best defenders. He is more than capable of defending small forwards, and whether you call him a 3 or 4 is irrelevant, his skill set is very limited on offense but very consistent. If you can move Bev to the bench and play MCD or Prince you can certainly move him to the bench and add Turner or Randle.

[GopherIt!]

out: Beasley

in: cash considerations -> buy a printer

just need 2 find a sucker team willing to take him.

[winforlose]

out: Beasley

in: cash considerations -> buy a printer

just need 2 find a sucker team willing to take him.

Beasley is a 15 million expiring next year. Plenty of rebuilding teams could flip him for 2 or 3 years of bad contract and get some picks. The question is what will they give us for him.

[King Malta]

I don't even care what we get for Beasley at this point, just get him the **** out of Minnesota.

He's a crippling negative on this team at the moment, I've seen enough.

[Neeva]

Rosas **** sucked. Should have traded beasley earlier..

[minimus]

Do you see anyone in similar to Vando, Beasley situation who is worth to acquire? I mean we pay late FRP or SRP to acquire a player with Bird rights to match any RFA offer

I just wanted to mention something I’ve heard about briefly from John Hollinger, which he calls the “Bird rights trap.”

Suppose we give up a 1st and Naz and get Joseph Nurkic, who is on a $12 mil expiring. Now suppose he balls out for the rest of season next to KAT, providing overwhelming defense, and is putting up double doubles every night. We’re thrilled to get that production, plus we have his Bird rights, and we want to keep him.

The problem is that if he plays this well, other teams want him too. His agent will go out and try to find a lucrative offer. Teams with cap space may overpay to get him, and include player-friendly options and up-front money to make that offer as unappealing to the Wolves as possible. Let’s say, $100 mil over four years. He then comes back to us, and says, “Beat that - you can afford it, you have my Bird rights.” Do we overpay? Or do we sacrifice the sunk cost of the 1st and Naz for a what turned out to be a half season rental?

Bird rights are a useful tool for teams that wants to quickly add salary (and talent), and don’t care about going over the lux. I’m not sure that describes MIN next year - it still feels a little early, especially since we know we will get expensive in the future and then have to face the repeater tax. My guess is that we don’t do a lot at the deadline unless we get a good deal, and this summer we let our expirings expire, we re-sign Beverley, offer KAT (and maybe DLo) and extension, use the MLE, and perhaps trade the Beasley + extended package then.

I think minimus is asking more for guys who are RFAs this summer. UFAs are definitely traps, but RFAs not so much.

I need to do a longer deep dive. Aaron Holiday is one example of a guy in this mold, as is PJ Washington.

Exactly, RFAs. There is an interesting dynamic in Charlotte. They have to decide what to do with Miles Bridges, who want max contract. I would be very happy to add PJ Washington for late FRP and sign him for 60 mil for 4 yrs.

[shrink]

I just wanted to mention something I’ve heard about briefly from John Hollinger, which he calls the “Bird rights trap.”

Suppose we give up a 1st and Naz and get Joseph Nurkic, who is on a $12 mil expiring. Now suppose he balls out for the rest of season next to KAT, providing overwhelming defense, and is putting up double doubles every night. We’re thrilled to get that production, plus we have his Bird rights, and we want to keep him.

The problem is that if he plays this well, other teams want him too. His agent will go out and try to find a lucrative offer. Teams with cap space may overpay to get him, and include player-friendly options and up-front money to make that offer as unappealing to the Wolves as possible. Let’s say, $100 mil over four years. He then comes back to us, and says, “Beat that - you can afford it, you have my Bird rights.” Do we overpay? Or do we sacrifice the sunk cost of the 1st and Naz for a what turned out to be a half season rental?

Bird rights are a useful tool for teams that wants to quickly add salary (and talent), and don’t care about going over the lux. I’m not sure that describes MIN next year - it still feels a little early, especially since we know we will get expensive in the future and then have to face the repeater tax. My guess is that we don’t do a lot at the deadline unless we get a good deal, and this summer we let our expirings expire, we re-sign Beverley, offer KAT (and maybe DLo) and extension, use the MLE, and perhaps trade the Beasley + extended package then.

I think minimus is asking more for guys who are RFAs this summer. UFAs are definitely traps, but RFAs not so much.

I need to do a longer deep dive. Aaron Holiday is one example of a guy in this mold, as is PJ Washington.

Exactly, RFAs. There is an interesting dynamic in Charlotte. They have to decide what to do with Miles Bridges, who want max contract. I would be very happy to add PJ Washington for late FRP and sign him for 60 mil for 4 yrs.

Am I missing something? I am speaking of any impending free agent. Teams still need to make a decision whether to match an opposing offer that may be more than they wish to pay.

We could have legally kept RFA Tyus Jones regardless of our financial situation with Bird rights, but after he received a big offer from Memphis, he became too expensive for us to choose to match. This is why it would be dangerous for another team to give up bigger assets to trade for Josh Okogie as a long term solution — he could get a bigger offer from a different team that they don’t want to match, and then those assets were lost on a rental.

[_AIJ_]

Beasley and Reid should really go

[Note30]

Out Prince, Beasley, Reid, 3 UFRP (one for each player)
In Dejounte Murray, Keldon Johnson, Jakob Poetl

Min stacks the deck with 3 solid players that can score and defend. Would have to extend Poetl, but could retain all players for atleast 2-3 years.

Spurs clears books and tanks.

Murray/DLo/Ant/Vando/KAT
Bev/Nowell/Johnson/McDaniels/Poetl

After this season there would have to be a decision how to extend Bev but if we could that team is deep. Like as deep as we can go deep.

[Dewey]

Out Prince, Beasley, Reid, 3 UFRP (one for each player)
In Dejounte Murray, Keldon Johnson, Jakob Poetl

Min stacks the deck with 3 solid players that can score and defend. Would have to extend Poetl, but could retain all players for atleast 2-3 years.

Spurs clears books and tanks.

Murray/DLo/Ant/Vando/KAT
Bev/Nowell/Johnson/McDaniels/Poetl

After this season there would have to be a decision how to extend Bev but if we could that team is deep. Like as deep as we can go deep.

I don’t believe Beverly demands heavy playing time … he understands his role at this point forward

[minimus]

MIN IN: Holmes, Justin Holiday, Torrey Craig, Davion Mitchell
MIN OUT: Okogie, Layman, McLaughlin, Prince, top10 protected FRP 2022, three SRPs

IND IN: Okogie, Layman, McLaughlin, two SRPs
IND OUT: Justin Holiday, Torrey Craig

SAC IN: Prince, Reid, top10 protected FRP 2022, SRP
SAC OUT: Davion Mitchell, Holmes

Towns/Holmes + Knight
Vando/MCD/Craig
Edwards/Craig/MCD
Beverley/Beasley + Bolmaro
DLo/Nowell/Holiday + Mitchell

Read on Twitter

I watched highlights vs GSW and thought that it would immensely helpful to add someone who can contest shooters on perimeter and slashers under rim as weak side defender. Maybe Justin Holiday can help here. Craig is a proven defender. Holmes is better defender than Reid

[moss_is_1]

Out Prince, Beasley, Reid, 3 UFRP (one for each player)
In Dejounte Murray, Keldon Johnson, Jakob Poetl

Min stacks the deck with 3 solid players that can score and defend. Would have to extend Poetl, but could retain all players for atleast 2-3 years.

Spurs clears books and tanks.

Murray/DLo/Ant/Vando/KAT
Bev/Nowell/Johnson/McDaniels/Poetl

After this season there would have to be a decision how to extend Bev but if we could that team is deep. Like as deep as we can go deep.

3 unprotected 1sts? Yikes.

[Note30]

Out Prince, Beasley, Reid, 3 UFRP (one for each player)
In Dejounte Murray, Keldon Johnson, Jakob Poetl

Min stacks the deck with 3 solid players that can score and defend. Would have to extend Poetl, but could retain all players for atleast 2-3 years.

Spurs clears books and tanks.

Murray/DLo/Ant/Vando/KAT
Bev/Nowell/Johnson/McDaniels/Poetl

After this season there would have to be a decision how to extend Bev but if we could that team is deep. Like as deep as we can go deep.

3 unprotected 1sts? Yikes.

I mean I could make the argument that Murray alone is worth two for Prince.

Beasley and Reid and 1 UFRP for Poetl and Johnson.

Individually those two trades are steals

[winforlose]

Out Prince, Beasley, Reid, 3 UFRP (one for each player)
In Dejounte Murray, Keldon Johnson, Jakob Poetl

Min stacks the deck with 3 solid players that can score and defend. Would have to extend Poetl, but could retain all players for atleast 2-3 years.

Spurs clears books and tanks.

Murray/DLo/Ant/Vando/KAT
Bev/Nowell/Johnson/McDaniels/Poetl

After this season there would have to be a decision how to extend Bev but if we could that team is deep. Like as deep as we can go deep.

3 unprotected 1sts? Yikes.

I mean I could make the argument that Murray alone is worth two for Prince.

Beasley and Reid and 1 UFRP for Poetl and Johnson.

Individually those two trades are steals

On paper you are probably correct, in practice not so much.

1. Poetl cannot shoot from distance which makes him a tough fit with a lot of players should KAT miss a game. He cannot play with V8 or JO, he makes life hard on Ant and his poor free throw shooting means he couldn’t finish games. I mean honestly 44% is unplayable. As a 10-15 minute per game guy maybe, but as KAT’s backup, not gonna work.

2. Murray is awesome, but we already have Dlo, Bev, Nowell, and Ant. Pushing Ant to the 3 locks V8 at the 4 and KAT at the 5. Our defense still fails, our rebounding still sucks, and we are log jammed.

3. Johnson is used to getting 28-30 minutes per game. We cannot give him close to that without taking minutes from Ant. Unless we are gonna bench then lose Bev, I don’t know how we make it work.

4. 3 unprotected firsts could be a disaster. One serious injury to KAT and that could a lottery pick. Improving where we are already strong and not fixing our weaknesses is not worth 3 unprotected firsts.

[MN7725]

Looking at RFA

DiVencenzio, Ayton, Simons, Bridges no chance

Sexton- straight up I don't think Wolves have anything Cle would want, but as part of a larger deal where another team wants expirings instead of Sexton, maybe could get involved but I'm sure he sees himself as a starter

Bagley- just hasn't gotten better, and if you are trying to win Prince is better option

Lonnie Walker- probably the most interesting name, nuclear athlete that shot decent previous seasons, has gotten crowded out in Spurs rotation

Mo Bamba- not much point in going after a backup C

Knox

Aaron Holiday- Wolves already have a tiny backup PG

Claxton

Paschall

Troy Brown Jr


pretty slim pickings