Trade Talk (Part Four)

[KGdaBom]

Wolves Give: #1 + Johnson + Spellman
Wolves Get: A. Gordon + Isaac + 2021 Returned
Wolves Reasoning: Rosas moves #1 for Gordon this season and what 2021 can become with Isaac + own 2021 1st. Can Gordon and Isaac fit Wolves 1-3-1 system? Or does one need to be part of consolidation trade next offseason (most likely Gordon unless he looks amazing in trial season).

Warriors Give: #2 + Looney + Poole + Wolves 2021
Warriors Get: #1 + Bamba + Johnson (via Iggy TPE)
Warriors Reasoning: get a young rookie contract defensive center who has couple seasons NBA development (ready to contribute), Johnson as trade filler contract, and the slightly more positive #1 overall for their win-now trade.

Magic Give: A. Gordon + Isaac + Bamba
Magic Get: #2 + Looney + Spellman + Poole
Magic Reasoning: trade their old guard youth for fresh new #2 overall restart.

As a Warriors' fan I would want no part of this trade. In this years draft with no clear no.1 pick it would be giving up too much to move up one spot. I think the Wolves 2021 pick if it is in the lottery but not in the top 3 will have more value whether the Warriors trade or keep it. I also don't think the Warriors would have any interest in a player like Mo Bamba. I could see a scenario with the Wolves getting Gordon from Orlando and just keeping the Warriors out of it.

Hey I don't blame you. Personally I don't want Isaac on this team anymore so far that alone I say no before reading more. Isaac is now forever going to be a huge risk to make it through seasons and that's not going to even have a chance to start until the end of 2021.

But just for perspective and example, there was No Clear #1 in Luka's draft no matter what people claim afterwards. He went pick 3. There was no clear #1 in Durant's draft. He went #2. If their futures were clear, they never would have been passed over by even 1 or 2 slots.

Absolutely correct. Revisionist history acting like it was obvious. We could get a truly great player with the #1. It's all about making the right selection.

[Neeva]

Wolves will surprise , thanks to much improved Culver/Okogie/Beasley trio and Dlo and Kat finally playing games together . If they also hit on draft night via picks or trades. I think the Warriors will be stuck with two 2021 picks in the last part of the first round. Better for the Warriors to trade that wolves pick now because if they hold on to it it won’t be that hot commodity they thought it would be.

[Wolveswin]

Wolves will surprise , thanks to much improved Culver/Okogie/Beasley trio and Dlo and Kat finally playing games together . If they also hit on draft night via picks or trades. I think the Warriors will be stuck with two 2021 picks in the last part of the first round. Better for the Warriors to trade that wolves pick now because if they hold on to it it won’t be that hot commodity they thought it would be.

This is true. We have at least 2 teams to make big win-now trades in Warriors and Wolves. Means 2 teams won’t have one of their best players anymore. Teams like Suns, Knicks, and Hawks have assets and want to be win-now too.

Teams like Bulls (LaVine), Pelicans (Holiday), Wizards (Beal), Jazz (Gobert), Magic (Gordon, Vucevic), OKC (Paul), all could be some level of substantially worse.

Pistons and Cavs should be bottom 2. But Hornets and Kings, could say, “Hold my beer.”

Bottom line, I think when draft, free agency and trade season (offseason and deadline) are complete, Warriors will be wishing they traded 2021 now.

[KGdaBom]

Wolves Give: #1 + Johnson + Spellman
Wolves Get: A. Gordon + Isaac + 2021 Returned
Wolves Reasoning: Rosas moves #1 for Gordon this season and what 2021 can become with Isaac + own 2021 1st. Can Gordon and Isaac fit Wolves 1-3-1 system? Or does one need to be part of consolidation trade next offseason (most likely Gordon unless he looks amazing in trial season).

Warriors Give: #2 + Looney + Poole + Wolves 2021
Warriors Get: #1 + Bamba + Johnson (via Iggy TPE)
Warriors Reasoning: get a young rookie contract defensive center who has couple seasons NBA development (ready to contribute), Johnson as trade filler contract, and the slightly more positive #1 overall for their win-now trade.

Magic Give: A. Gordon + Isaac + Bamba
Magic Get: #2 + Looney + Spellman + Poole
Magic Reasoning: trade their old guard youth for fresh new #2 overall restart.

As a Warriors' fan I would want no part of this trade. In this years draft with no clear no.1 pick it would be giving up too much to move up one spot. I think the Wolves 2021 pick if it is in the lottery but not in the top 3 will have more value whether the Warriors trade or keep it. I also don't think the Warriors would have any interest in a player like Mo Bamba. I could see a scenario with the Wolves getting Gordon from Orlando and just keeping the Warriors out of it.

That Wolves 2021 will lose value from where it sits today and substantial value compared to where it sat at time of trade.

Wolves will most certainly make a win-now move. Even if they don’t, a team with a Russell on board with #1 and #17 and Beasley re-signed has depreciated that pick.

If OKC goes tank, Memphis continues slide, Spurs waive the white flag, Magic go tank, and any number of teams who try and be worse than Wolves (who not owning their own 2021 are motivated to win), that 1st is destined to be late or non-lotto.

I like the way you think. PLAYOFFS!!!

[KGdaBom]

I'm generally optimistic, but I feel a slight need to hit the breaks here. Objectively the Wolves are unlikely to make the playoffs this coming season. Objectively we are unlikely to get a top 3 pick either. Possibly the best outcome to this season will be getting the 14 slot and then winning the lottery. Hell Yeah. Go Wolves.

[Jedzz]

As a Warriors' fan I would want no part of this trade. In this years draft with no clear no.1 pick it would be giving up too much to move up one spot. I think the Wolves 2021 pick if it is in the lottery but not in the top 3 will have more value whether the Warriors trade or keep it. I also don't think the Warriors would have any interest in a player like Mo Bamba. I could see a scenario with the Wolves getting Gordon from Orlando and just keeping the Warriors out of it.

Hey I don't blame you. Personally I don't want Isaac on this team anymore so far that alone I say no before reading more. Isaac is now forever going to be a huge risk to make it through seasons and that's not going to even have a chance to start until the end of 2021.

But just for perspective and example, there was No Clear #1 in Luka's draft no matter what people claim afterwards. He went pick 3. There was no clear #1 in Durant's draft. He went #2. If their futures were clear, they never would have been passed over by even 1 or 2 slots.

Yeah, it's a shame about Isaac's health concerns. I agree with your statement about not always have a clear cut number 1 the best player not always being at the top of the draft, but I was going more on pick value and moving up 1 spot in this draft probably won't net much of a return.

Right, as long as you can correctly choose the best player the first team passed on #2 doesn't seem to be a bad place to pick from. So many of these drafts appear almost upside down looking backwards enough. AD went #1 overall his draft and he's a great player. But there are oodles of players from that draft still in the league and many of them have added to playoff teams in ways AD can't claim yet. If Warriors make another great choice like they did picking from left overs in 2009, they will be golden.

[whatisacenter]

Hey I don't blame you. Personally I don't want Isaac on this team anymore so far that alone I say no before reading more. Isaac is now forever going to be a huge risk to make it through seasons and that's not going to even have a chance to start until the end of 2021.

But just for perspective and example, there was No Clear #1 in Luka's draft no matter what people claim afterwards. He went pick 3. There was no clear #1 in Durant's draft. He went #2. If their futures were clear, they never would have been passed over by even 1 or 2 slots.

Yeah, it's a shame about Isaac's health concerns. I agree with your statement about not always have a clear cut number 1 the best player not always being at the top of the draft, but I was going more on pick value and moving up 1 spot in this draft probably won't net much of a return.

Right, as long as you can correctly choose the best player the first team passed on #2 doesn't seem to be a bad place to pick from. So many of these drafts appear almost upside down looking backwards enough. AD went #1 overall his draft and he's a great player. But there are oodles of players from that draft still in the league and many of them have added to playoff teams in ways AD can't claim yet. If Warriors make another great choice like they did picking from left overs in 2009, they will be golden.

I don't think it's likely that the Warriors will keep this years pick and will trade it as part of a package for 1 player or will trade down for a pick and a player who might provide some depth. If they keep the pick and take either Edwards, Wiseman or Deni at 2 I'll be ok with it but I have a hard time seeing Deni and Wiseman actually helping the Warriors in a meaningful way in the next 2 years. It will be interesting to see what the Wolves do at 1 as I have no idea if you guys will trade it or who you would take if you keep it???

[KGdaBom]

Yeah, it's a shame about Isaac's health concerns. I agree with your statement about not always have a clear cut number 1 the best player not always being at the top of the draft, but I was going more on pick value and moving up 1 spot in this draft probably won't net much of a return.

Right, as long as you can correctly choose the best player the first team passed on #2 doesn't seem to be a bad place to pick from. So many of these drafts appear almost upside down looking backwards enough. AD went #1 overall his draft and he's a great player. But there are oodles of players from that draft still in the league and many of them have added to playoff teams in ways AD can't claim yet. If Warriors make another great choice like they did picking from left overs in 2009, they will be golden.

I don't think it's likely that the Warriors will keep this years pick and will trade it as part of a package for 1 player or will trade down for a pick and a player who might provide some depth. If they keep the pick and take either Edwards, Wiseman or Deni at 2 I'll be ok with it but I have a hard time seeing Deni and Wiseman actually helping the Warriors in a meaningful way in the next 2 years. It will be interesting to see what the Wolves do at 1 as I have no idea if you guys will trade it or who you would take if you keep it???

Some people think we won't take a big player like Wiseman, Okongwu or Toppin, just because there is the unwritten rule you can't play two bigs at the same time anymore. Some think we will take Edwards or Ball because in their minds they are the most talented players. I very much disagree with that. As far as need and talent merge we are very weak at both forward spots and Deni can play both forward spots plus IMO be a good creator, defender and scorer. Assuming we keep #1 IMO the pick has to be one of the group I mentioned.

[Klomp]

Some people think we won't take a big player like Wiseman, Okongwu or Toppin, just because there is the unwritten rule you can't play two bigs at the same time anymore.

If that's why you really don't think Minnesota would take those guys, you are either not understanding the arguments presented by people or just unwilling to accept what they say as a possibility.

It has nothing to do with size. It's about the player's offensive capabilities and defensive mobility. It has never had anything to do with size, beyond the fact that most bigger players aren't as mobile as their smaller counterparts.

[minimus]

In a regular draft where the number 1 is a AD or KD or Luka, I would make this deal in a heartbeat. For Anthony Edwards? Pass.

MIN IN: Aaron Gordon, SAC 2021 FRP (unprotected), and SAC 2020 FRP (#12)
MIN OUT: JJ, MIN 2020 FRP pick (#1), BRO 2020 FRP (#17), Spellman, Evans,

ORL IN: Hield, Evans
ORL OUT: Aaron Gordon, ORL 2020 FRP (#15)

SAC IN: JJ, MIN 2020 FRP pick (#1), ORL 2020 FRP (#15), BRO 2020 FRP (#17), Spellman
SAC OUT: Hield, SAC 2021 FRP (unprotected), SAC 2020 FRP (#12)

Why for SAC: get high-level talent, collect multiple assets (#1, #15, #17 in 2020 draft)
Why for MIN: get starting PF, get an additional pick in the 2021 draft
Why for ORL: get an elite shooter on a multi-year contract

Draft Kira Lewis Jr (or Maxey), Killian Tillie. Re-sign JMac, Beasley, Juancho, Martin.

KAT/Reid/Tillie
Gordon/Juancho/Vanderbilt
Culver/Layman/Martin
Beasley/Okogie/Nowell
DLo/Lewis/JMac

+ SAC 2021 FRP

[KGdaBom]

Some people think we won't take a big player like Wiseman, Okongwu or Toppin, just because there is the unwritten rule you can't play two bigs at the same time anymore.

If that's why you really don't think Minnesota would take those guys, you are either not understanding the arguments presented by people or just unwilling to accept what they say as a possibility.

It has nothing to do with size. It's about the player's offensive capabilities and defensive mobility. It has never had anything to do with size, beyond the fact that most bigger players aren't as mobile as their smaller counterparts.

Did you notice I said some people? I believe that many people are going by the unwritten rule saying the Wolves won't draft those guys. Hopefully the Wolves aren't. I never said Minnesota wouldn't draft those three at all.
Toppin has massive offensive capabilities. Limited defensive mobility. Wiseman has both offensive capability and defensive mobility that's very good for a player with his length.
Okongwu's offensive capabilities IMO are very high and his defensive mobility is off the charts.

[Slim Tubby]

Right, as long as you can correctly choose the best player the first team passed on #2 doesn't seem to be a bad place to pick from. So many of these drafts appear almost upside down looking backwards enough. AD went #1 overall his draft and he's a great player. But there are oodles of players from that draft still in the league and many of them have added to playoff teams in ways AD can't claim yet. If Warriors make another great choice like they did picking from left overs in 2009, they will be golden.

I don't think it's likely that the Warriors will keep this years pick and will trade it as part of a package for 1 player or will trade down for a pick and a player who might provide some depth. If they keep the pick and take either Edwards, Wiseman or Deni at 2 I'll be ok with it but I have a hard time seeing Deni and Wiseman actually helping the Warriors in a meaningful way in the next 2 years. It will be interesting to see what the Wolves do at 1 as I have no idea if you guys will trade it or who you would take if you keep it???

Some people think we won't take a big player like Wiseman, Okongwu or Toppin, just because there is the unwritten rule you can't play two bigs at the same time anymore. Some think we will take Edwards or Ball because in their minds they are the most talented players. I very much disagree with that. As far as need and talent merge we are very weak at both forward spots and Deni can play both forward spots plus IMO be a good creator, defender and scorer. Assuming we keep #1 IMO the pick has to be one of the group I mentioned.

I’ve been with you about Wiseman needing to be the pick since Day One. As far as playing 2 Bigs in today’s NBA, if we had a chance to acquire a guy like Gobert on a fair deal, I’m pretty sure we would find a way to play him and KAT at the same time.


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[Jedzz]

Yeah, it's a shame about Isaac's health concerns. I agree with your statement about not always have a clear cut number 1 the best player not always being at the top of the draft, but I was going more on pick value and moving up 1 spot in this draft probably won't net much of a return.

Right, as long as you can correctly choose the best player the first team passed on #2 doesn't seem to be a bad place to pick from. So many of these drafts appear almost upside down looking backwards enough. AD went #1 overall his draft and he's a great player. But there are oodles of players from that draft still in the league and many of them have added to playoff teams in ways AD can't claim yet. If Warriors make another great choice like they did picking from left overs in 2009, they will be golden.

I don't think it's likely that the Warriors will keep this years pick and will trade it as part of a package for 1 player or will trade down for a pick and a player who might provide some depth. If they keep the pick and take either Edwards, Wiseman or Deni at 2 I'll be ok with it but I have a hard time seeing Deni and Wiseman actually helping the Warriors in a meaningful way in the next 2 years. It will be interesting to see what the Wolves do at 1 as I have no idea if you guys will trade it or who you would take if you keep it???

None of us have a clue either. The team ownership is in flux so everything is up in the air.

[Jedzz]

I’ve been with you about Wiseman needing to be the pick since Day One. As far as playing 2 Bigs in today’s NBA, if we had a chance to acquire a guy like Gobert on a fair deal, I’m pretty sure we would find a way to play him and KAT at the same time.


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The only thing with Gobert is he really doesn't shoot threes, like ever. Which might be a big problem here. Then again, many have said they would accept Simmons here. He shoots no threes either. So, I think sometimes people are just star grabby. But adding players like this might require changing your identity on offense to better fit them. I wouldn't want to add them only to put them in a terrible position to try and succeed.

[KGdaBom]

I don't think it's likely that the Warriors will keep this years pick and will trade it as part of a package for 1 player or will trade down for a pick and a player who might provide some depth. If they keep the pick and take either Edwards, Wiseman or Deni at 2 I'll be ok with it but I have a hard time seeing Deni and Wiseman actually helping the Warriors in a meaningful way in the next 2 years. It will be interesting to see what the Wolves do at 1 as I have no idea if you guys will trade it or who you would take if you keep it???

Some people think we won't take a big player like Wiseman, Okongwu or Toppin, just because there is the unwritten rule you can't play two bigs at the same time anymore. Some think we will take Edwards or Ball because in their minds they are the most talented players. I very much disagree with that. As far as need and talent merge we are very weak at both forward spots and Deni can play both forward spots plus IMO be a good creator, defender and scorer. Assuming we keep #1 IMO the pick has to be one of the group I mentioned.

I’ve been with you about Wiseman needing to be the pick since Day One. As far as playing 2 Bigs in today’s NBA, if we had a chance to acquire a guy like Gobert on a fair deal, I’m pretty sure we would find a way to play him and KAT at the same time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Preach it brother.

[shrink]

If you don’t regularly visit the trade board, I thought you may enjoy these attempts by neutral fans to rebuild the wolves

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=85200399#p85200399

[shrink]

Tiny one

MIN GETS: Dennis Smith Jr, 2021 DAL 1st (lottery protected, else nothing)

NYK GETS: Omari Spellman, Jacob Evans, #33

Why for MIN? Smith has been awful every year, and it’s a long shot he improves, but I swear there is talent in there somewhere. He’s been relegated to third stringer by the Knicks, getting DNP’s and Inactives behind also-rans like a Elfrid Payton and Frank Ntilinka. He’s also paid $5.7 mil next year - we’d add $1.7 mil in payroll. However, he’s an expiring. The DAL 1st is likely to be late, but the fact that it is in 2021 helps our roster crowding. The deal is 3-for-1, and players we waive to gate down to 15 roster spots can’t be used as matching salary.

Why for NYK? They get a couple kids who were late 1st round prospects in 2018 .. Spellman could show something. According to the Trade Checker, both players fit into their TPE from Markief Morris, so Smith’s salary would create a new $5.7 mil TPE. The DAL pick is likely late faith Luka, but they slap lottery protection on it to minimize that risk. They get off of Smith.

I see this as $4 mil of Spellman + Evans > $5.7 mil Smith, and #33 < 2021 DAL 1st.

[shrink]

MIN GETS: Jerami Grant S&T (say, 3 for $45) + #24
MIN GIVES: James Johnson + #17 + #33

ORL GETS: James Johnson + #17 + 33
ORL GIVES: Aaron Gordom

DEN GETS: Aaron Gordon
DEN GIVES: Jerami Grant S&T, #24

Why for MIN? I’m violating my own rules here where I say that S&T’s have little value because the market sets the price, but I think Grant is such a good fit, I’m willing to downgrade the #17 to #24, and toss in the #33 as well. Keeping the #24 allows us to trade out of the draft with the #1 in case a deal shows up.

Why for ORL? Start the rebuild.

Why for DEN? They can’t get Gordon with just the #24, so they use MIN to pay for him. Gordon is a better all-around player than Grant, and he’s on a declining deal. They sign Paul Milsap for a year. He always started over Jerami, and Jokic respects Milsap so much, that he even started playing defense .. defense they don’t want to lose. DEN is always cost-conscious.

[Klomp]

Tiny one

MIN GETS: Dennis Smith Jr, 2021 DAL 1st (lottery protected, else nothing)

NYK GETS: Omari Spellman, Jacob Evans, #33

Why for MIN? Smith has been awful every year, and it’s a long shot he improves, but I swear there is talent in there somewhere. He’s been relegated to third stringer by the Knicks, getting DNP’s and Inactives behind also-rans like a Elfrid Payton and Frank Ntilinka. He’s also paid $5.7 mil next year - we’d add $1.7 mil in payroll. However, he’s an expiring. The DAL 1st is likely to be late, but the fact that it is in 2021 helps our roster crowding. The deal is 3-for-1, and players we waive to gate down to 15 roster spots can’t be used as matching salary.

Why for NYK? They get a couple kids who were late 1st round prospects in 2018 .. Spellman could show something. According to the Trade Checker, both players fit into their TPE from Markief Morris, so Smith’s salary would create a new $5.7 mil TPE. The DAL pick is likely late faith Luka, but they slap lottery protection on it to minimize that risk. They get off of Smith.

I see this as $4 mil of Spellman + Evans > $5.7 mil Smith, and #33 < 2021 DAL 1st.

I actually really like this idea, I'd even do it without the pick swap. As you said, kinda helps with the roster crunch too.

[shrink]

I actually really like this idea, I'd even do it without the pick swap. As you said, kinda helps with the roster crunch too.

Would you prefer the 2021 DET 2nd, rather than the pick swap? MIN is eating payroll, so they should get something, and the Knicks have more picks than they can use.

MIN traded it’s 2021 1st and 2nd, so if they added a second, which could make it a long boring night for Wolves fans if they don’t add something.