Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST)

[Note30]

3 unprotected 1sts? Yikes.

I mean I could make the argument that Murray alone is worth two for Prince.

Beasley and Reid and 1 UFRP for Poetl and Johnson.

Individually those two trades are steals

On paper you are probably correct, in practice not so much.

1. Poetl cannot shoot from distance which makes him a tough fit with a lot of players should KAT miss a game. He cannot play with V8 or JO, he makes life hard on Ant and his poor free throw shooting means he couldn’t finish games. I mean honestly 44% is unplayable. As a 10-15 minute per game guy maybe, but as KAT’s backup, not gonna work.

2. Murray is awesome, but we already have Dlo, Bev, Nowell, and Ant. Pushing Ant to the 3 locks V8 at the 4 and KAT at the 5. Our defense still fails, our rebounding still sucks, and we are log jammed.

3. Johnson is used to getting 28-30 minutes per game. We cannot give him close to that without taking minutes from Ant. Unless we are gonna bench then lose Bev, I don’t know how we make it work.

4. 3 unprotected firsts could be a disaster. One serious injury to KAT and that could a lottery pick. Improving where we are already strong and not fixing our weaknesses is not worth 3 unprotected firsts.

Poetl can definitely start even if KAT misses time and he's a good replacement, he might not be able to consistently play with V8 but it's not like we wouldn't have McDaniels or Johnson. He's more than qualified to even start at the 5 and push KAT to the 4.

Bev and Nowell aren't exactly good reasons for not picking up a defensive anchor who can handle the ball and slash. V8 is already locked at the 4... Who else would we play there? Just McD? If we put KAT at the 4 and Poetl at the 5 that's the same as having v8 locked at the 4 (shooting wise atleast).

Johnson could Def run 6 man minutes were not giving that to anyone besides prince and McD who I think is getting a lot of minutes relative to his play level anyway.

Bev is 33. If he wants to walk for not getting 30 minutes a game I'm okay with that. He might walk anyway. He's too old to make special considerations for I think he'd be fine at 15 a game at most.

True. That's the one point I agree on 3 FRPs. However with that logic we shouldn't bet on a big player to come here regardless, atleast this is 3 players all at starter level quality one of whom is playing the same position as KAT. We'd have to find another backup C but that's fine.

Its a hard bet, but would definitely make Minnesota at the level of the Utah Jazz rn with room to drastically grow.

[old school 34]

Looking at RFA

DiVencenzio, Ayton, Simons, Bridges no chance

Sexton- straight up I don't think Wolves have anything Cle would want, but as part of a larger deal where another team wants expirings instead of Sexton, maybe could get involved but I'm sure he sees himself as a starter

Bagley- just hasn't gotten better, and if you are trying to win Prince is better option

Lonnie Walker- probably the most interesting name, nuclear athlete that shot decent previous seasons, has gotten crowded out in Spurs rotation

Mo Bamba- not much point in going after a backup C

Knox

Aaron Holiday- Wolves already have a tiny backup PG

Claxton

Paschall

Troy Brown Jr


pretty slim pickings

I lean a little more this way lately adding more youth or rookie contract types. I know vets will make us more competitive this year specifically &/or short term....but I'm okay with us just going thru the learning curve in the playoffs this year with as much youth &/or lack of experience...it's just what it's going to be most likely?

If I can get a Roco & essentially not have to give up anything of real significance...sure?

Otherwise, I'd be more excited long term &/or overpaying a little on a guy like Quentin Grimes (as my Beasley replacement...a guy that has Bane vibes) or a X. Tillman (maybe he'd be a guy that they'd not be excited to give up but at least listen)....it's great to have 4 picks this upcoming draft until you actually get to the draft, right....we aren't putting 4 rooks on next year's roster...those assets I feel have the most value in these type of deals?

I think this change in my brain & watching the wolves play lately has really kind of changed my order who I'd most like to see dealt if possible by trade deadline:

1. Beasley....it will be difficult...he only hits shots when literally there's no pressure...zero clutch in him regardless of what he believes. And because his teammates are trying to support & encourage him...it makes things worse....it's a no win situation. Trade him to OKC for Favors & Kenny Hustle...we'll need to add picks but it would be worth it.

2. Naz....he's a good while still limited player...but if like many has said...he can't effectively play with KAT...makes him a poor roster fit....especially with the Vando development...V8 needs to remain starter, but he also covered up all of Naz's flaws...so I see backup 4 eventually being for of a shooter...which means your backup 5 probably needs to be more defensive rebounding type? Naz & Okogie (POA defender) & what kind of pick(s) to Char for PJ Washington?

3. Okogie....he moved up my list because I failed to realize we didn't extend him to keep his rfa rights. Granted he's on the outskirts of the rotation but as that situational defender that's still by all accounts good locker room guy...he had value about taking my chances with him thru the rfa process and seeing if I'd be able to retain on a team friendly deal...but without that not real likely he sticks & better to cash out now?

4. Prince falls from 1 to here &/or 5 (if I wanted to switch him with JMac)....but like, if he'd come back on a deal somewhere between Layman or Juancho type of deals (4 to 7 per...3 yrs with TO's) & maybe that's just too homerish to think he'd do? But I think his vet voice truly is heard & resonates...that sometimes get oversold, but I've become more & more convinced he has a real Taj-like credibility to him in that specific locker room & maybe or hoping he might find real value & a security in that?

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app

[shrink]

Did anyone listen to this week’s Dunc’d On episode with listener-created trades?

[EDIT: Never mind. I finally found the episode, was indignant that a listener had us trading Beverley, and then heard the return the CLIPPERS were getting for him! It turned out, while the pod description was listener requests, it was an undated pod apparently from last year. It might still be fun to hear some fresh ideas from this year, but it’s unlikely it’s going to contain Towns and Russell trades, like this description of this podcast offered]

[shrink]

Out Prince, Beasley, Reid, 3 UFRP (one for each player)
In Dejounte Murray, Keldon Johnson, Jakob Poetl

Min stacks the deck with 3 solid players that can score and defend. Would have to extend Poetl, but could retain all players for atleast 2-3 years.

Spurs clears books and tanks.

Murray/DLo/Ant/Vando/KAT
Bev/Nowell/Johnson/McDaniels/Poetl

After this season there would have to be a decision how to extend Bev but if we could that team is deep. Like as deep as we can go deep.

3 unprotected 1sts? Yikes.

I mean I could make the argument that Murray alone is worth two for Prince.

Beasley and Reid and 1 UFRP for Poetl and Johnson.

Individually those two trades are steals

I think Murray’s blossoming overall game could lead to him becoming a superstar, plus he’s a terrific defender. People just don’t hear about him enough because he’s in San Antonio. I doubt the Spurs would give him up for two UFRP’s, particularly since the first one is likely in the 12-18 range. Three UFRP’s is very dangerous for any player that isn’t already a superstar. If we don’t have Ant going out (and we shouldn’t!), I don’t see how we could reach a trade.

Poeltl is interesting, and having a nice season for the Spurs. Good size, right age, no range. Maybe?

[MN7725]

Looking at RFA

DiVencenzio, Ayton, Simons, Bridges no chance

Sexton- straight up I don't think Wolves have anything Cle would want, but as part of a larger deal where another team wants expirings instead of Sexton, maybe could get involved but I'm sure he sees himself as a starter

Bagley- just hasn't gotten better, and if you are trying to win Prince is better option

Lonnie Walker- probably the most interesting name, nuclear athlete that shot decent previous seasons, has gotten crowded out in Spurs rotation

Mo Bamba- not much point in going after a backup C

Knox

Aaron Holiday- Wolves already have a tiny backup PG

Claxton

Paschall

Troy Brown Jr


pretty slim pickings

I lean a little more this way lately adding more youth or rookie contract types. I know vets will make us more competitive this year specifically &/or short term....but I'm okay with us just going thru the learning curve in the playoffs this year with as much youth &/or lack of experience...it's just what it's going to be most likely?

If I can get a Roco & essentially not have to give up anything of real significance...sure?

Otherwise, I'd be more excited long term &/or overpaying a little on a guy like Quentin Grimes (as my Beasley replacement...a guy that has Bane vibes) or a X. Tillman (maybe he'd be a guy that they'd not be excited to give up but at least listen)....it's great to have 4 picks this upcoming draft until you actually get to the draft, right....we aren't putting 4 rooks on next year's roster...those assets I feel have the most value in these type of deals?

I think this change in my brain & watching the wolves play lately has really kind of changed my order who I'd most like to see dealt if possible by trade deadline:

1. Beasley....it will be difficult...he only hits shots when literally there's no pressure...zero clutch in him regardless of what he believes. And because his teammates are trying to support & encourage him...it makes things worse....it's a no win situation. Trade him to OKC for Favors & Kenny Hustle...we'll need to add picks but it would be worth it.

2. Naz....he's a good while still limited player...but if like many has said...he can't effectively play with KAT...makes him a poor roster fit....especially with the Vando development...V8 needs to remain starter, but he also covered up all of Naz's flaws...so I see backup 4 eventually being for of a shooter...which means your backup 5 probably needs to be more defensive rebounding type? Naz & Okogie (POA defender) & what kind of pick(s) to Char for PJ Washington?

3. Okogie....he moved up my list because I failed to realize we didn't extend him to keep his rfa rights. Granted he's on the outskirts of the rotation but as that situational defender that's still by all accounts good locker room guy...he had value about taking my chances with him thru the rfa process and seeing if I'd be able to retain on a team friendly deal...but without that not real likely he sticks & better to cash out now?

4. Prince falls from 1 to here &/or 5 (if I wanted to switch him with JMac)....but like, if he'd come back on a deal somewhere between Layman or Juancho type of deals (4 to 7 per...3 yrs with TO's) & maybe that's just too homerish to think he'd do? But I think his vet voice truly is heard & resonates...that sometimes get oversold, but I've become more & more convinced he has a real Taj-like credibility to him in that specific locker room & maybe or hoping he might find real value & a security in that?

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app

Okogie will be a RFA if the Wolves offer him a qualifying offer in offseason, he will be UFA if they don't
Spotrac lists his qualifying offer as $5.9 mil

[minimus]

Did anyone listen to this week’s Dunc’d On episode with listener-created trades?

The description said they talked about a Towns trade to the Pelicans, and several D’Angelo Russell trades.

I don’t have it, so I was hoping someone could post that here?

Sounds like usual non sense trades ideas from B/R

[winforlose]

I mean I could make the argument that Murray alone is worth two for Prince.

Beasley and Reid and 1 UFRP for Poetl and Johnson.

Individually those two trades are steals

On paper you are probably correct, in practice not so much.

1. Poetl cannot shoot from distance which makes him a tough fit with a lot of players should KAT miss a game. He cannot play with V8 or JO, he makes life hard on Ant and his poor free throw shooting means he couldn’t finish games. I mean honestly 44% is unplayable. As a 10-15 minute per game guy maybe, but as KAT’s backup, not gonna work.

2. Murray is awesome, but we already have Dlo, Bev, Nowell, and Ant. Pushing Ant to the 3 locks V8 at the 4 and KAT at the 5. Our defense still fails, our rebounding still sucks, and we are log jammed.

3. Johnson is used to getting 28-30 minutes per game. We cannot give him close to that without taking minutes from Ant. Unless we are gonna bench then lose Bev, I don’t know how we make it work.

4. 3 unprotected firsts could be a disaster. One serious injury to KAT and that could a lottery pick. Improving where we are already strong and not fixing our weaknesses is not worth 3 unprotected firsts.

Poetl can definitely start even if KAT misses time and he's a good replacement, he might not be able to consistently play with V8 but it's not like we wouldn't have McDaniels or Johnson. He's more than qualified to even start at the 5 and push KAT to the 4.

Bev and Nowell aren't exactly good reasons for not picking up a defensive anchor who can handle the ball and slash. V8 is already locked at the 4... Who else would we play there? Just McD? If we put KAT at the 4 and Poetl at the 5 that's the same as having v8 locked at the 4 (shooting wise atleast).

Johnson could Def run 6 man minutes were not giving that to anyone besides prince and McD who I think is getting a lot of minutes relative to his play level anyway.

Bev is 33. If he wants to walk for not getting 30 minutes a game I'm okay with that. He might walk anyway. He's too old to make special considerations for I think he'd be fine at 15 a game at most.

True. That's the one point I agree on 3 FRPs. However with that logic we shouldn't bet on a big player to come here regardless, atleast this is 3 players all at starter level quality one of whom is playing the same position as KAT. We'd have to find another backup C but that's fine.

Its a hard bet, but would definitely make Minnesota at the level of the Utah Jazz rn with room to drastically grow.

Let’s talk rotations.

Murray, Dlo, Ant, V8, KAT
Beverly, Nowell, KJ, MCD, JP.

This is the best I can do with the suggested trade. In this instance assume all starters get 30 minutes. That is of course very low, most will get closer to 34, but let’s just be generous and say 30. With 48 total minutes and 5 total players there are 240 game minutes. 30x5 = 150. 240-150 = 90 game minutes. If Nowell and KJ each get every minute from SG and SF respectively they are limited to 18 minutes each. So let’s get creative, let’s take 6 minutes from the backup PG and give it to Nowell and 6 from backup PF and give it to KJ. They each get 24 minutes and Bev and MCD get 12. MCD struggles to develop, and Bev goes from being a starter to basically being a coach.

If you move JP to the starting lineup you moving V8 to the bench and losing an elite defender and top tier offensive rebounder. You add no extra jump shooting, and you lose pace. What you gain is a presence in the middle who can guard the paint. But, then you need to get a backup C and now you are pinching someone else from the rotation. V8 at backup 4 means MCD at backup 3 and KJ at backup 2 (a position I doubt he can play.) Nowell goes to backup 1 and Beverly, a player who is so important for his leadership doesn’t play at all.

This move just doesn’t work.

[moss_is_1]

Out Prince, Beasley, Reid, 3 UFRP (one for each player)
In Dejounte Murray, Keldon Johnson, Jakob Poetl

Min stacks the deck with 3 solid players that can score and defend. Would have to extend Poetl, but could retain all players for atleast 2-3 years.

Spurs clears books and tanks.

Murray/DLo/Ant/Vando/KAT
Bev/Nowell/Johnson/McDaniels/Poetl

After this season there would have to be a decision how to extend Bev but if we could that team is deep. Like as deep as we can go deep.

3 unprotected 1sts? Yikes.

I mean I could make the argument that Murray alone is worth two for Prince.

Beasley and Reid and 1 UFRP for Poetl and Johnson.

Individually those two trades are steals

I get the value, and Murray is a stud. It's just scary as a Wolves fan to be throwing out 3 unprotected 1sts. That's assuming we are going to be a good team for a long time. We've been a terrible team forever. This makes it very hard to improve elsewhere and pretty much makes that our final team.

[Note30]

On paper you are probably correct, in practice not so much.

1. Poetl cannot shoot from distance which makes him a tough fit with a lot of players should KAT miss a game. He cannot play with V8 or JO, he makes life hard on Ant and his poor free throw shooting means he couldn’t finish games. I mean honestly 44% is unplayable. As a 10-15 minute per game guy maybe, but as KAT’s backup, not gonna work.

2. Murray is awesome, but we already have Dlo, Bev, Nowell, and Ant. Pushing Ant to the 3 locks V8 at the 4 and KAT at the 5. Our defense still fails, our rebounding still sucks, and we are log jammed.

3. Johnson is used to getting 28-30 minutes per game. We cannot give him close to that without taking minutes from Ant. Unless we are gonna bench then lose Bev, I don’t know how we make it work.

4. 3 unprotected firsts could be a disaster. One serious injury to KAT and that could a lottery pick. Improving where we are already strong and not fixing our weaknesses is not worth 3 unprotected firsts.

Poetl can definitely start even if KAT misses time and he's a good replacement, he might not be able to consistently play with V8 but it's not like we wouldn't have McDaniels or Johnson. He's more than qualified to even start at the 5 and push KAT to the 4.

Bev and Nowell aren't exactly good reasons for not picking up a defensive anchor who can handle the ball and slash. V8 is already locked at the 4... Who else would we play there? Just McD? If we put KAT at the 4 and Poetl at the 5 that's the same as having v8 locked at the 4 (shooting wise atleast).

Johnson could Def run 6 man minutes were not giving that to anyone besides prince and McD who I think is getting a lot of minutes relative to his play level anyway.

Bev is 33. If he wants to walk for not getting 30 minutes a game I'm okay with that. He might walk anyway. He's too old to make special considerations for I think he'd be fine at 15 a game at most.

True. That's the one point I agree on 3 FRPs. However with that logic we shouldn't bet on a big player to come here regardless, atleast this is 3 players all at starter level quality one of whom is playing the same position as KAT. We'd have to find another backup C but that's fine.

Its a hard bet, but would definitely make Minnesota at the level of the Utah Jazz rn with room to drastically grow.

Let’s talk rotations.

Murray, Dlo, Ant, V8, KAT
Beverly, Nowell, KJ, MCD, JP.

This is the best I can do with the suggested trade. In this instance assume all starters get 30 minutes. That is of course very low, most will get closer to 34, but let’s just be generous and say 30. With 48 total minutes and 5 total players there are 240 game minutes. 30x5 = 150. 240-150 = 90 game minutes. If Nowell and KJ each get every minute from SG and SF respectively they are limited to 18 minutes each. So let’s get creative, let’s take 6 minutes from the backup PG and give it to Nowell and 6 from backup PF and give it to KJ. They each get 24 minutes and Bev and MCD get 12. MCD struggles to develop, and Bev goes from being a starter to basically being a coach.

If you move JP to the starting lineup you moving V8 to the bench and losing an elite defender and top tier offensive rebounder. You add no extra jump shooting, and you lose pace. What you gain is a presence in the middle who can guard the paint. But, then you need to get a backup C and now you are pinching someone else from the rotation. V8 at backup 4 means MCD at backup 3 and KJ at backup 2 (a position I doubt he can play.) Nowell goes to backup 1 and Beverly, a player who is so important for his leadership doesn’t play at all.

This move just doesn’t work.

What if it was just Murray?

Beasley, Bolmaro and 2 UFRPs for Murray?

Then try to find pieces to complement Bev, Nowell McD at the big man spots

[winforlose]

Poetl can definitely start even if KAT misses time and he's a good replacement, he might not be able to consistently play with V8 but it's not like we wouldn't have McDaniels or Johnson. He's more than qualified to even start at the 5 and push KAT to the 4.

Bev and Nowell aren't exactly good reasons for not picking up a defensive anchor who can handle the ball and slash. V8 is already locked at the 4... Who else would we play there? Just McD? If we put KAT at the 4 and Poetl at the 5 that's the same as having v8 locked at the 4 (shooting wise atleast).

Johnson could Def run 6 man minutes were not giving that to anyone besides prince and McD who I think is getting a lot of minutes relative to his play level anyway.

Bev is 33. If he wants to walk for not getting 30 minutes a game I'm okay with that. He might walk anyway. He's too old to make special considerations for I think he'd be fine at 15 a game at most.

True. That's the one point I agree on 3 FRPs. However with that logic we shouldn't bet on a big player to come here regardless, atleast this is 3 players all at starter level quality one of whom is playing the same position as KAT. We'd have to find another backup C but that's fine.

Its a hard bet, but would definitely make Minnesota at the level of the Utah Jazz rn with room to drastically grow.

Let’s talk rotations.

Murray, Dlo, Ant, V8, KAT
Beverly, Nowell, KJ, MCD, JP.

This is the best I can do with the suggested trade. In this instance assume all starters get 30 minutes. That is of course very low, most will get closer to 34, but let’s just be generous and say 30. With 48 total minutes and 5 total players there are 240 game minutes. 30x5 = 150. 240-150 = 90 game minutes. If Nowell and KJ each get every minute from SG and SF respectively they are limited to 18 minutes each. So let’s get creative, let’s take 6 minutes from the backup PG and give it to Nowell and 6 from backup PF and give it to KJ. They each get 24 minutes and Bev and MCD get 12. MCD struggles to develop, and Bev goes from being a starter to basically being a coach.

If you move JP to the starting lineup you moving V8 to the bench and losing an elite defender and top tier offensive rebounder. You add no extra jump shooting, and you lose pace. What you gain is a presence in the middle who can guard the paint. But, then you need to get a backup C and now you are pinching someone else from the rotation. V8 at backup 4 means MCD at backup 3 and KJ at backup 2 (a position I doubt he can play.) Nowell goes to backup 1 and Beverly, a player who is so important for his leadership doesn’t play at all.

This move just doesn’t work.

What if it was just Murray?

Beasley, Bolmaro and 2 UFRPs for Murray?

Then try to find pieces to complement Bev, Nowell McD at the big man spots

I would like it much more. But, without those picks it will be hard to make a serious improvement at the big. I love Murray, don’t get me wrong, I just think we have a very serious need at either PF or C and really only one resource to get it.

Edit to add, I re-ran the original trade idea in Fanspo with the pacers as the third team. If we gave the Pacers KJ and JP they could send us Turner. Turner and Murray would send V8 to the bench, but the starting 5 would be freaky good and with a 3 man rotation we could keep the wear and tear off of KAT and Turner and still give V8 a lot of minutes.

If you don’t like Turner the math probably works for other teams. But in this case the 3rd pick would need some form of protection. We could add Leo to the mix as well if either team would value him at or near a first (near meaning a swap of a young player to the other team so as to save us a first.)

[Mattya]

The Spurs aren’t trading Murray for what we are going to offer. Not even worst wasting time thinking about it.

[shangrila]

The Spurs aren’t trading Murray for what we are going to offer. Not even worst wasting time thinking about it.

Agreed.

I'd ask around about White, as he'd be a good compliment to DLo/Edwards/Nowell as the long term Bev replacement. But I don't know if Pop will trade him, or anyone for that matter. Wasn't the recent Forbes trade their first in-season trade in like 2 decades?

[_AIJ_]

Man Murray would be so awesome here. Pipe dream tho

[Neeva]

Spurs players including Murray are overrated here.

[Note30]

[streamable][/streamable]

Spurs players including Murray are overrated here.

How is Murray overrated?

[shangrila]

[streamable][/streamable]

Spurs players including Murray are overrated here.

How is Murray overrated?

Because people like him

[minimus]

MIN IN: Derrick White, Tre Jones, Torrey Craig, Kenrich Willams, OKC 2022 FRP (via PHO)
MIN OUT: Beasley, Layman, McLaughlin, Prince, top10 protected FRP 2022, lottery protected FRP 2023, SRP

IND IN: Layman, SRP
IND OUT: Torrey Craig
Why for IND: get expiring and small asset, if they want to rebuild

OKC IN: Beasley, MIN top10 protected FRP 2022
OKC OUT: Kenrich Willams, OKC 2022 FRP (via PHO)
Why for OKC: get higher FRP, move up in 2022 draft, try to revive Beasley career

SAS IN: Prince, McLaughlin, MIN lottery protected FRP 2023
SAS OUT: White, Tre Jones
Why for SAS: get expiring, get 2023 FRP hope to find talent

Towns/Reid + Knight
Vando/MCD/Craig
Edwards/Williams/MCD
Beverley/White/Okogie + Bolmaro
DLo/Nowell/Jones + Wright


Why for MIN: complete shift in mindset, acquiring two sound defenders (Craig, White) and one defensive prospect (Jones) we scale our defensive scheme to second unit. Williams can give us some three point shooting and he is a solid defender. White can be PoA defender. If we make these trade we hope that our offensive minded players who play in 2nd unit such as Reid and Nowell can raise their play to another level. Obviously it also means that we resign them to team friendly deals.

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[wolves_89]

The last couple of games against the Warriors and Suns has solidified my take on the team. If the starters are healthy and Beasley/Prince are making shots this team can beat anybody. Unfortunately, Beverley misses a ton of games and the bench group of Beasley, Prince, McDaniels, and Reid are all incredibly inconsistent. Finding one or two vets to come off the bench who can be more consistent would go a long way towards the team competing for the 5-6 spot in the playoffs.

[Note30]

[streamable][/streamable]

Spurs players including Murray are overrated here.

How is Murray overrated?

Because people like him

I'm pretty sure I'm the only poster here who brings him up on the regular.

[moss_is_1]

The last couple of games against the Warriors and Suns has solidified my take on the team. If the starters are healthy and Beasley/Prince are making shots this team can beat anybody. Unfortunately, Beverley misses a ton of games and the bench group of Beasley, Prince, McDaniels, and Reid are all incredibly inconsistent. Finding one or two vets to come off the bench who can be more consistent would go a long way towards the team competing for the 5-6 spot in the playoffs.

Agreed. Just someone who can reliably score and not be a huge negative defensively for our bench. Prince has played well as of late, Beasley at some point has to make his open threes. Another decent big, wing, maybe a veteran Pg( though Jmac played well last night).