Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST)

[winforlose]

This is a twist on an old idea. Note30 will especially like it.

Wolves out: KAT, Dlo, 2022 unprotected first
Wolves in: Murray, Keldon Johnson, Miles Turner, Chris Duarte and Jeremy lamb.

Spurs out: Murray and Johnson
Spurs in: Domantas Sabonis and Wolves unprotected 2022 first round pick.

Pacers out: Sabonis, Turner, Lamb, and Duarte
Pacers in: KAT and Dlo.

Why for the Wolves: Murray and Turner replace Dlo and KAT. Neither is on a max deal, which gives us the money we need to keep our young core together. Duarte can slot in at starting SG and push Bev to the bench. Lamb is expiring and Johnson is bench upgrade adding shooting and defense. Best part, we become much less top heavy. As it stands now if KAT or Dlo are out we often lose. Too much pressure is put on them. This deal gives us four quality players for 2. Starting lineup Murray, Duarte, Ant, V8, Turner. Second unit Bev, Nowell, Johnson, MCD, and Reid.

Why for Pacers: Pacers skip the rebuild and gain two star level players who can compete in the east. A starting lineup of Brogdon, Dlo, LeVert, Warren, and KAT is solid. Plus if it doesn’t work out they can move some or all of that lineup
and build the team they want.

Why for Spurs: Sabonis is an elite center and a cornerstone of their rebuild. The unprotected first is a bit of a gamble but helps replace Johnson. If they need more we can always throw in Leo. This trade also frees them up to trade Poetlt or keep him as a backup for Sabonis.

One additional edit: We should also target a backup C who can fill in while Turner is out. Either that or sign Monroe (who I think is still available.)

[life_saver]

[streamable][/streamable]

Spurs players including Murray are overrated here.

How is Murray overrated?

Looking at numbers, his efficiency definitely looks concerning..poor 3 point shooter and his shooting efficiency just looks poor

[jpatrick]

[streamable][/streamable]

Spurs players including Murray are overrated here.

How is Murray overrated?

Looking at numbers, his efficiency definitely looks concerning..poor 3 point shooter and his shooting efficiency just looks poor

Murray is a defensive stud. But offensively, is he any better than Michael Carter Williams? He put up great counting numbers but due to inefficiency and his style (including no outside shot), he wasn’t a winning player.

[shrink]

How is Murray overrated?

Looking at numbers, his efficiency definitely looks concerning..poor 3 point shooter and his shooting efficiency just looks poor

Murray is a defensive stud. But offensively, is he any better than Michael Carter Williams? He put up great counting numbers but due to inefficiency and his style (including no outside shot), he wasn’t a winning player.

I don’t think any of that’s unfair, but I’m about to make an ugly, hand-waving rebuttal - the factless type of posts I hate.

I think if Murray was on a big market team, people would be talking about him a lot. I tend to believe there are only about a dozen superstars in the NBA (based on my definition of the word), and maybe another dozen that have the chance to grow to that level. I don’t have a firm definition of what it is - it’s like the “I’ll know it when I see it” crap people use for justifications of personal opinions. To me, a superstar isn’t always perfect, and isn’t always efficient. But the ball seems to find him in crucial times, and in those times, he often makes play. DLo has a little of that in him offensively - bad overall stats, but in certain clutch moments, he can be unstoppable.

Let me say flat out that Murray isn’t a superstar yet - he’s not even necessarily a star. But I can see him getting a game-saving rebound, or a key stop, or a put back that wins a game. He is in the flow of the game whenever he is on the floor, whether it’s scoring, defending, passing or rebounding. LeBron is like that - he gets you what you need, when you need it. Murray will never be LeBron - not by a mile - but he has that multi-use factor that fills multiple columns in box scores that I think superstars have.

[shangrila]

[streamable][/streamable]

How is Murray overrated?

Because people like him

I'm pretty sure I'm the only poster here who brings him up on the regular.

It was a joke.

I was implying neeva was just being a contrarian

[Note30]

This is a twist on an old idea. Note30 will especially like it.

Wolves out: KAT, Dlo, 2022 unprotected first
Wolves in: Murray, Keldon Johnson, Miles Turner, Chris Duarte and Jeremy lamb.

Spurs out: Murray and Johnson
Spurs in: Domantas Sabonis and Wolves unprotected 2022 first round pick.

Pacers out: Sabonis, Turner, Lamb, and Duarte
Pacers in: KAT and Dlo.

Why for the Wolves: Murray and Turner replace Dlo and KAT. Neither is on a max deal, which gives us the money we need to keep our young core together. Duarte can slot in at starting SG and push Bev to the bench. Lamb is expiring and Johnson is bench upgrade adding shooting and defense. Best part, we become much less top heavy. As it stands now if KAT or Dlo are out we often lose. Too much pressure is put on them. This deal gives us four quality players for 2. Starting lineup Murray, Duarte, Ant, V8, Turner. Second unit Bev, Nowell, Johnson, MCD, and Reid.

Why for Pacers: Pacers skip the rebuild and gain two star level players who can compete in the east. A starting lineup of Brogdon, Dlo, LeVert, Warren, and KAT is solid. Plus if it doesn’t work out they can move some or all of that lineup
and build the team they want.

Why for Spurs: Sabonis is an elite center and a cornerstone of their rebuild. The unprotected first is a bit of a gamble but helps replace Johnson. If they need more we can always throw in Leo. This trade also frees them up to trade Poetlt or keep him as a backup for Sabonis.

One additional edit: We should also target a backup C who can fill in while Turner is out. Either that or sign Monroe (who I think is still available.)

I mean I'm not looking to replace Kat or Dlo atm but I do like the players we're trading for in this trade!

[Dewey]

This is a twist on an old idea. Note30 will especially like it.

Wolves out: KAT, Dlo, 2022 unprotected first
Wolves in: Murray, Keldon Johnson, Miles Turner, Chris Duarte and Jeremy lamb.

Spurs out: Murray and Johnson
Spurs in: Domantas Sabonis and Wolves unprotected 2022 first round pick.

Pacers out: Sabonis, Turner, Lamb, and Duarte
Pacers in: KAT and Dlo.

Why for the Wolves: Murray and Turner replace Dlo and KAT. Neither is on a max deal, which gives us the money we need to keep our young core together. Duarte can slot in at starting SG and push Bev to the bench. Lamb is expiring and Johnson is bench upgrade adding shooting and defense. Best part, we become much less top heavy. As it stands now if KAT or Dlo are out we often lose. Too much pressure is put on them. This deal gives us four quality players for 2. Starting lineup Murray, Duarte, Ant, V8, Turner. Second unit Bev, Nowell, Johnson, MCD, and Reid.

Why for Pacers: Pacers skip the rebuild and gain two star level players who can compete in the east. A starting lineup of Brogdon, Dlo, LeVert, Warren, and KAT is solid. Plus if it doesn’t work out they can move some or all of that lineup
and build the team they want.

Why for Spurs: Sabonis is an elite center and a cornerstone of their rebuild. The unprotected first is a bit of a gamble but helps replace Johnson. If they need more we can always throw in Leo. This trade also frees them up to trade Poetlt or keep him as a backup for Sabonis.

One additional edit: We should also target a backup C who can fill in while Turner is out. Either that or sign Monroe (who I think is still available.)

Zero chance .. Wolves need 3 unprotected 1st rounders coming back minimum

[winforlose]

This is a twist on an old idea. Note30 will especially like it.

Wolves out: KAT, Dlo, 2022 unprotected first
Wolves in: Murray, Keldon Johnson, Miles Turner, Chris Duarte and Jeremy lamb.

Spurs out: Murray and Johnson
Spurs in: Domantas Sabonis and Wolves unprotected 2022 first round pick.

Pacers out: Sabonis, Turner, Lamb, and Duarte
Pacers in: KAT and Dlo.

Why for the Wolves: Murray and Turner replace Dlo and KAT. Neither is on a max deal, which gives us the money we need to keep our young core together. Duarte can slot in at starting SG and push Bev to the bench. Lamb is expiring and Johnson is bench upgrade adding shooting and defense. Best part, we become much less top heavy. As it stands now if KAT or Dlo are out we often lose. Too much pressure is put on them. This deal gives us four quality players for 2. Starting lineup Murray, Duarte, Ant, V8, Turner. Second unit Bev, Nowell, Johnson, MCD, and Reid.

Why for Pacers: Pacers skip the rebuild and gain two star level players who can compete in the east. A starting lineup of Brogdon, Dlo, LeVert, Warren, and KAT is solid. Plus if it doesn’t work out they can move some or all of that lineup
and build the team they want.

Why for Spurs: Sabonis is an elite center and a cornerstone of their rebuild. The unprotected first is a bit of a gamble but helps replace Johnson. If they need more we can always throw in Leo. This trade also frees them up to trade Poetlt or keep him as a backup for Sabonis.

One additional edit: We should also target a backup C who can fill in while Turner is out. Either that or sign Monroe (who I think is still available.)

Zero chance .. Wolves need 3 unprotected 1st rounders coming back minimum

I am confused, you don’t think Duarte, Murray, Johnson, Turner and the expiring lamb is a good return? That saves 14.1 mil off the cap and let’s us make additional moves around the edges. In fact the spurs fans on both RealGM and Sb Nation are both pretty sure Sabonis isn’t enough to get Murray much less Johnson as well. Who do you think should be giving us the 3 picks in my scenario?

[minimus]

MIN IN: Noel, Dragic, Kenrich Willams, OKC 2022 FRP (via PHO)
MIN OUT: Beasley, Layman, Okogie, Reid, MIN top10 protected FRP 2022

NYK IN: Beasley
NYK OUT: Alec Burks, Noel
Why for NYK: they had interest in Beasley

OKC IN: Layman, Okogie, MIN top10 protected FRP 2022
OKC OUT: Kenrich Willams, OKC 2022 FRP (via PHO), TOR 2022 SRP
Why for OKC: get higher FRP, move up in 2022 draft

TOR IN: Reid, Burks
TOR OUT: Dragic, 2022 SRP
Why for TOR: get offensive minded C

Towns/Noel + Knight
Vando/MCD/Knight
Edwards/Williams/MCD
Beverley/Nowell+ Bolmaro
DLo/Dragic/JMac + Wright

[MN7725]

Three Way Trade

Wolves Receive:
From Knicks
Alec Burks '22-23 salary '23-24
$9,536,000 $10,012,800 $10,489,600 (Team Option)
Nerlens Noel
$8,800,000 $9,240,000 $9,680,000 (Team Option)
From Raptors
Chris Boucher
$7,020,000 UFA

Wolves would gain $500,000 in luxury tax space

Wolves get back their own 2026 2nd round pick back from Knicks owed from Ed Davis trade
2024 2nd round pick (worse of the four 2024 2nd round picks Knicks have, Wolves owe own 2024 2nd to OKC)

Upgrade rotation/defense by taking on future money and sending out 1st and two promising players

Boucher is #10 on BBREF's block rate %, Noel would be #7 if he had more games played. Last season Boucher was #4, Noel was #2
so MASSIVE upgrade in paint protection. Both are skinny but I believe mobility is far more important than physical strength in today's perimeter oriented, drive/kick NBA. I think the recent games vs. GSW and Phoenix perfectly demonstrated that.

Burks has really come back to being a solid player after having his Utah career derailed by injuries, I'd rather have him than Eric Gordon who gets mentioned a lot. Knicks have used him as starting PG this season so would be Beverly/Russell injury insurance too.

KAT
Vando
Beverly/McDaniels
ANT
Russell

Nowell
Burks
Beasley
McDaniels/Beverly
Boucher
Noel

That would be 11 guys when healthy feel like they should be playing decent minutes, which can make things difficult chemistry wise, but with Covid/random injuries it shouldn't be too often.

Knicks Receive
Wolves 2022 1st round pick Top 8 Protected (currently #15 but hopefully would get closer to #20)
Layman (UFA)
Prince (UFA)
Okogie (RFA)

Why for Knicks?
Clear salary and rotation spots for younger players as they have been rumored to be looking to do, 1st round pick from a team that historically things do not go well for


Raptors Receive
Naz Reid
Leonardo Bolmaro
2nd round pick from Knicks (they have like 10 extra 2nds in next three seasons)

Why for Raps?
Raps get a more skilled offensive player than Boucher (UFA) in Reid that is under contract to go with their outstanding perimeter defenders. Bolmaro is at least an interesting prospect given size and playmaking shown in Europe, regain a 2nd round pick (they owe two future 2nds)

[Note30]

MIN IN: Noel, Dragic, Kenrich Willams, OKC 2022 FRP (via PHO)
MIN OUT: Beasley, Layman, Okogie, Reid, MIN top10 protected FRP 2022

NYK IN: Beasley
NYK OUT: Alec Burks, Noel
Why for NYK: they had interest in Beasley

OKC IN: Layman, Okogie, MIN top10 protected FRP 2022
OKC OUT: Kenrich Willams, OKC 2022 FRP (via PHO), TOR 2022 SRP
Why for OKC: get higher FRP, move up in 2022 draft

TOR IN: Reid, Burks
TOR OUT: Dragic, 2022 SRP
Why for TOR: get offensive minded C

Towns/Noel + Knight
Vando/MCD/Knight
Edwards/Williams/MCD
Beverley/Nowell+ Bolmaro
DLo/Dragic/JMac + Wright

I like this only concern is Dragics minutes

[wolves_89]

My best guess at the Wolves trade deadline is:

MIN out: Beasley, Reid, Layman, 2022 MIN 1st, 2022 MIN 2nd
IND out: Turner, Sykes

Followed up with waiving Sykes, adding Monroe on a minimum deal for the rest of the season, and signing Knight to a Gupta special contract (and maybe adding a new 2 way contract).

[Note30]

MIN out: Beasley, Prince, Reid
MIN in: Duncan Robinson, Richuan Holmes

[minimus]

MIN IN: Noel, Dragic, Kenrich Willams, OKC 2022 FRP (via PHO)
MIN OUT: Beasley, Layman, Okogie, Reid, MIN top10 protected FRP 2022

NYK IN: Beasley
NYK OUT: Alec Burks, Noel
Why for NYK: they had interest in Beasley

OKC IN: Layman, Okogie, MIN top10 protected FRP 2022
OKC OUT: Kenrich Willams, OKC 2022 FRP (via PHO), TOR 2022 SRP
Why for OKC: get higher FRP, move up in 2022 draft

TOR IN: Reid, Burks
TOR OUT: Dragic, 2022 SRP
Why for TOR: get offensive minded C

Towns/Noel + Knight
Vando/MCD/Knight
Edwards/Williams/MCD
Beverley/Nowell+ Bolmaro
DLo/Dragic/JMac + Wright

I like this only concern is Dragics minutes

Yeah, he could not stay healthy last years.

[shangrila]

MIN out: Beasley, Prince, Reid
MIN in: Duncan Robinson, Richuan Holmes

I'd do it, though the extra years/money on Robinson hurts.

[moss_is_1]

Beginning to think that we don't make much of a deal at the deadline. Maybe float out the end of the bench fodder(Okogie, Layman) to get another veteran bigman, or to try and get some picks. Prince has been playing a lot better the last month or so.

[minimus]

Beginning to think that we don't make much of a deal at the deadline. Maybe float out the end of the bench fodder(Okogie, Layman) to get another veteran bigman, or to try and get some picks. Prince has been playing a lot better the last month or so.

MIN IN: Delon Wright, Thad Young
MIN OUT: Beasley, Layman, Okogie

SAS IN: Beasley
SAS OUT: Thad Young
Why for SAS: get more shooting

ATL IN: Layman, Okogie
ATL OUT: Wright
Why for ATL: get perimeter defense

Towns/Reid + Knight
Vando/Young/MCD
Edwards/MCD/Prince
Beverley/Nowell+ Bolmaro
DLo/Wright/JMac + Wright

The main idea is to add two experienced players, add some defense in 2nd unit, let Reid and Nowell have more freedom in offence, also we would have 30 mil expiring this summer.

[NebWolvesFan]

I'm a fan of Kelly Olynyk/Cory Joseph for Beasley and Okogie trade. Olynyk fills more of a need on this team than Beasley with the emergence of Nowell and both players are strong vets.

Beasley and Okogie - if they let Okogie walk - saves the Pistons money next year and they need SG/wings more than PF/C with Stewart/Lyles/Grant and the likely drafting of a PF/C in the 2022 draft - Chet/Paolo/Smith/Duran.

[Mamba4Goat]

Beginning to think that we don't make much of a deal at the deadline. Maybe float out the end of the bench fodder(Okogie, Layman) to get another veteran bigman, or to try and get some picks. Prince has been playing a lot better the last month or so.

MIN IN: Delon Wright, Thad Young
MIN OUT: Beasley, Layman, Okogie

SAS IN: Beasley
SAS OUT: Thad Young
Why for SAS: get more shooting

ATL IN: Layman, Okogie
ATL OUT: Wright
Why for ATL: get perimeter defense

Towns/Reid + Knight
Vando/Young/MCD
Edwards/MCD/Prince
Beverley/Nowell+ Bolmaro
DLo/Wright/JMac + Wright

The main idea is to add two experienced players, add some defense in 2nd unit, let Reid and Nowell have more freedom in offence, also we would have 30 mil expiring this summer.

I don’t think SAS willingly takes Beasley’s extra year without some good incentive attached. Similarly Wright has been pretty solid for Atlanta and they don’t have a backup guard behind him. Trading him for scraps likely is a total nonstarter.

[shrink]

I wonder if being burned by Justin Payton’s foot issues will make our front office less likely to gamble on Myles Turner?