Re: Trade Talk (Part Twelve): 2023 Playoff Push Edition

[Baseline81]

Keith Smith
@KeithSmithNBA
The Washington Wizards are far from done with rebuilding their roster. They're engaged with several teams on trade talks involving the veterans on their roster, sources tell @spotrac
.

Washington is motivated to clear out some of their new logjam at point guard.

As I pointed out in the draft thread, Orlando is another team now with a logjam at PG.

- Anthony
- Black
- Fultz
- Suggs

[gandlogo]

Keith Smith
@KeithSmithNBA
The Washington Wizards are far from done with rebuilding their roster. They're engaged with several teams on trade talks involving the veterans on their roster, sources tell @spotrac
.

Washington is motivated to clear out some of their new logjam at point guard.

As I pointed out in the draft thread, Orlando is another team now with a logjam at PG.

- Anthony
- Black
- Fultz
- Suggs

With the Wolves reportedly kicking the tires on Black prior to the draft and the Magic taking him a few spots ahead of where he was consistently "mocked" - plus the aforementioned glut of guards in Orlando - I wonder if the Wolves have a deal in place with the Magic? Please be for Gobert, but it could be for Towns. Obviously, more than just Black coming back for either. But if the Wolves identified their guy as Black, that would be a way to accomplish it.

[Devilzsidewalk]

Keith Smith
@KeithSmithNBA
The Washington Wizards are far from done with rebuilding their roster. They're engaged with several teams on trade talks involving the veterans on their roster, sources tell @spotrac
.

Washington is motivated to clear out some of their new logjam at point guard.

As I pointed out in the draft thread, Orlando is another team now with a logjam at PG.

- Anthony
- Black
- Fultz
- Suggs

I could get on board with either Suggs or Cole Anthony. Suggs brings the ability to guard 1-3. Cole Anthony I like even more. I think he might be figuring something out on offense. Crazy springs and quickness. I've been wanting one of those guys with enough handle, explosion, and shooting, to be able to navigate perimeter screens and and crush the other team with quick 3s. It's such a valuable skill with how the game is called today where you can't be anywhere near a guy shooting a jumper or it's a foul. With the right shooter, it's so hard to defend because you're going full speed east-west and then coming to a screeching halt - the ability to fight around a screen and bother a shot without your momentum carrying into the shooter's space is almost impossible at times and almost guarantees a decent scoring opportunity.

Beasley was probably the closest we had to be able to do that, but not enough handle and quickness to runs with screens and re-screens till something opens up. DLo was just too slow. Ant can at times, but he's still trying to find his comfort level with a 2 man game.

[Devilzsidewalk]

Keith Smith
@KeithSmithNBA
The Washington Wizards are far from done with rebuilding their roster. They're engaged with several teams on trade talks involving the veterans on their roster, sources tell @spotrac
.

Washington is motivated to clear out some of their new logjam at point guard.

As I pointed out in the draft thread, Orlando is another team now with a logjam at PG.

- Anthony
- Black
- Fultz
- Suggs

With the Wolves reportedly kicking the tires on Black prior to the draft and the Magic taking him a few spots ahead of where he was consistently "mocked" - plus the aforementioned glut of guards in Orlando - I wonder if the Wolves have a deal in place with the Magic? Please be for Gobert, but it could be for Towns. Obviously, more than just Black coming back for either. But if the Wolves identified their guy as Black, that would be a way to accomplish it.

That thought had occurred to me too - if the Wolves like Black, they have enough salary filler and interesting pieces to make a deal if they were so inclined.

Houston, Portland, and Orlando - I think all 3 (in that order) could put together a KAT package that I'd really like.

[minimus]

Is Payton Pritchard still on the trade block with Smart gone? I think he will come a lot cheaper than Suggs.

Pritchard might be too small for TC. He seems very focused on having good size for your position.

Monte Morris is not much bigger. On other hand Delon Wright is big for PG.

[life_saver]

“The Wolves received a ton of interest in Jaden McDaniels, league sources say, with teams all over the draft board calling and inquiring on his availability,” The Athletic’s Jon Krawczynski wrote. “The Wolves rebuffed every offer, viewing McDaniels as a huge piece of the team’s long-term future.”

Looks like there was lot of interest surrounding Jaden

[gandlogo]

That thought had occurred to me too - if the Wolves like Black, they have enough salary filler and interesting pieces to make a deal if they were so inclined.

Houston, Portland, and Orlando - I think all 3 (in that order) could put together a KAT package that I'd really like.

Assuming a rookie PG comes back in any of those deals, that's probably the order I'd rank the team options as well. Although, for some reason Scoot pushes me a little higher on Portland, but only if the other pieces from them can be turned into something usable for the Wolves. I think Houston can be more plug-and-play if Amen is the answer to the Wolves' prayers at PG (two thirds of a pun is p u).

[Baseline81]

“The Wolves received a ton of interest in Jaden McDaniels, league sources say, with teams all over the draft board calling and inquiring on his availability,” The Athletic’s Jon Krawczynski wrote. “The Wolves rebuffed every offer, viewing McDaniels as a huge piece of the team’s long-term future.”

Looks like there was lot of interest surrounding Jaden

You think teams would have got the message after Minnesota opted to include more first round picks rather than include McDaniels in the Gobert trade.

[TimberKat]

“The Wolves received a ton of interest in Jaden McDaniels, league sources say, with teams all over the draft board calling and inquiring on his availability,” The Athletic’s Jon Krawczynski wrote. “The Wolves rebuffed every offer, viewing McDaniels as a huge piece of the team’s long-term future.”

Looks like there was lot of interest surrounding Jaden

You think teams would have got the message after Minnesota opted to include more first round picks rather than include McDaniels in the Gobert trade.

I think it depends what's the offer. What about Scoot for JMcD? Booker for JMcD?

[TimberKat]

How about a double sign and trade for VanVleet and Naz. Essentially VanVleet for Twolves salary. Follow by a Naz for TOR salary? Is there any rules that prevent that!

[minimus]

How about a double sign and trade for VanVleet and Naz. Essentially VanVleet for Twolves salary. Follow by a Naz for TOR salary? Is there any rules that prevent that!

1) it's rare

2) it activates hard cap

[wolves_89]

How about a double sign and trade for VanVleet and Naz. Essentially VanVleet for Twolves salary. Follow by a Naz for TOR salary? Is there any rules that prevent that!

The bigger problem is VanVleet is likely looking for a deal around $25-30M/year while Naz is more in the $12-14M/year range.

[Devilzsidewalk]

“The Wolves received a ton of interest in Jaden McDaniels, league sources say, with teams all over the draft board calling and inquiring on his availability,” The Athletic’s Jon Krawczynski wrote. “The Wolves rebuffed every offer, viewing McDaniels as a huge piece of the team’s long-term future.”

Looks like there was lot of interest surrounding Jaden

You think teams would have got the message after Minnesota opted to include more first round picks rather than include McDaniels in the Gobert trade.

I wonder if teams are trying to see where TC's head is at. After a disappointing season, maybe he'd double-down and trade McDaniels for a veteran with a bigger name and reputation than game.

Honestly, I've been slightly worried about that myself. Like LAC would offer Kawhi, and he'd get all excited and start wildly offering up a bunch of stuff again. After that Gobert trade, there's just an air of reckless unpredictability around him now.

It's like if you had a friend who's always appeared cool and collected and makes sound decisions, but then one night you go out and he has too much to drink, and he ends up plastered, wandering around screaming at people, starts taking off his clothes, and ends up waking up in the morning handcuffed to a hospital bed. After that, no matter how months and years go by being calm and logical and under control, in the back of your mind, you know he's capable of causing carnage at any time.

[TimberKat]

How about a double sign and trade for VanVleet and Naz. Essentially VanVleet for Twolves salary. Follow by a Naz for TOR salary? Is there any rules that prevent that!

The bigger problem is VanVleet is likely looking for a deal around $25-30M/year while Naz is more in the $12-14M/year range.

If we include Conley, this will be simple. Sign and trade Conley+JMcl for VanVleet. Sign and trade Naz for Young+Porter Jr. (both contract also drop off at the end of the season). I am trying to do it without including Conley.

[shrink]

How about a double sign and trade for VanVleet and Naz. Essentially VanVleet for Twolves salary. Follow by a Naz for TOR salary? Is there any rules that prevent that!

The bigger problem is VanVleet is likely looking for a deal around $25-30M/year while Naz is more in the $12-14M/year range.

If we include Conley, this will be simple. Sign and trade Conley+JMcl for VanVleet. Sign and trade Naz for Young+Porter Jr. (both contract also drop off at the end of the season). I am trying to do it without including Conley.

It’s not about trade matching, it’s about the superlux and future salary.

We might be able to handle FVV for this year, but when Ant, McDaniels and KAT’s extensions kick in next year, added to Rudy, we simply could’t afford all the lux taxes and penalties. If we‘re expensive at four starting positions, we probably can’t afford to also be expensive at a fifth. At best, I don’t think we can spend more than $15, and probably less than that.

[TimberKat]

The bigger problem is VanVleet is likely looking for a deal around $25-30M/year while Naz is more in the $12-14M/year range.

If we include Conley, this will be simple. Sign and trade Conley+JMcl for VanVleet. Sign and trade Naz for Young+Porter Jr. (both contract also drop off at the end of the season). I am trying to do it without including Conley.

It’s not about trade matching, it’s about the superlux and future salary.

We might be able to handle FVV for this year, but when Ant, McDaniels and KAT’s extensions kick in next year, added to Rudy, we simply could’t afford all the lux taxes and penalties. If we‘re expensive at four starting positions, we probably can’t afford to also be expensive at a fifth. At best, I don’t think we can spend more than $15, and probably less than that.

I did that calc earlier and we are fine. Worst case one year over 2nd apron in 24/25 but will already have Gobert/Towns/JMcD/Ant/VanVleet/NAW + rookie contracts lockup. I will post the calc again. We will come back down in 25/26 with cap increase, then Gobert contract dop off.

I didn't consider cap smoothing in new CBA earlier. With cap smoothing at 10% (which could be higher), we may be over apron 2 for two years. Here is the number according to my calculation. It all depends on how much the cap raise and I will assume cap smoothing of 10%, JMcD start at 25.56M and VanVleet contract is front loaded starting at 29M in 2023

2024: Gobert-43.8; Towns-50; Ant-35.5; JMcD-25.56; VanVleet-26.68; NAW-8.28; Total=190; Cap=142; Tier1=171.82; Tier2=189.32; Over by ~10m
2025: Gobert-46.6; Towns-54; Ant-38.3; JMcD27.6; VanVleet 24.54; NAW-7.61; Total=199; Cap=156.2; Tier1=189; Tier2=206; 7.8M below tier2 to fill out the team
2026: Gobert contract drop off; 66.6M to fill out the team

[minimus]

I am torn: on one hand we need 3pt shooting badly, hence I want TP to stay and take as many open corner 3s as he can. On other hand, we need a backup PG and TP trade is the best chance to get one.

Should we trade TP to get backup PG?

Should we ask Anderson to be our defacto backup PG, while using NAW as backup comboguard?

Before draft, TC mentioned that getting a 3pt shooter is one of off-season priorities. But I don't see any realistic chance to get one. Sure it might be resolved by internal growth: Moore can certainly improve as shooter, maybe NAW can show more consistency. A lot depends on Towns, if he can take 8-9 threes and make 40% of them (like he did in 2019-20 seaeon) it will be a HUGE improvement for our team offense.

[Slim Tubby]

As I pointed out in the draft thread, Orlando is another team now with a logjam at PG.

- Anthony
- Black
- Fultz
- Suggs

With the Wolves reportedly kicking the tires on Black prior to the draft and the Magic taking him a few spots ahead of where he was consistently "mocked" - plus the aforementioned glut of guards in Orlando - I wonder if the Wolves have a deal in place with the Magic? Please be for Gobert, but it could be for Towns. Obviously, more than just Black coming back for either. But if the Wolves identified their guy as Black, that would be a way to accomplish it.

That thought had occurred to me too - if the Wolves like Black, they have enough salary filler and interesting pieces to make a deal if they were so inclined.

Houston, Portland, and Orlando - I think all 3 (in that order) could put together a KAT package that I'd really like.

Based on what you and gandlogo have been discussing, would this be enough of a return from ORL to pull the trigger:

ORL in: KAT
MIN in: WCJ, Suggs & Black

[KGdaBom]

With the Wolves reportedly kicking the tires on Black prior to the draft and the Magic taking him a few spots ahead of where he was consistently "mocked" - plus the aforementioned glut of guards in Orlando - I wonder if the Wolves have a deal in place with the Magic? Please be for Gobert, but it could be for Towns. Obviously, more than just Black coming back for either. But if the Wolves identified their guy as Black, that would be a way to accomplish it.

That thought had occurred to me too - if the Wolves like Black, they have enough salary filler and interesting pieces to make a deal if they were so inclined.

Houston, Portland, and Orlando - I think all 3 (in that order) could put together a KAT package that I'd really like.

Based on what you and gandlogo have been discussing, would this be enough of a return from ORL to pull the trigger:

ORL in: KAT
MIN in: WCJ, Suggs & Black

To me that would be horrific return for KAT.

[TimberKat]

I am torn: on one hand we need 3pt shooting badly, hence I want TP to stay and take as many open corner 3s as he can. On other hand, we need a backup PG and TP trade is the best chance to get one.

Should we trade TP to get backup PG?

Should we ask Anderson to be our defacto backup PG, while using NAW as backup comboguard?

Before draft, TC mentioned that getting a 3pt shooter is one of off-season priorities. But I don't see any realistic chance to get one. Sure it might be resolved by internal growth: Moore can certainly improve as shooter, maybe NAW can show more consistency. A lot depends on Towns, if he can take 8-9 threes and make 40% of them (like he did in 2019-20 seaeon) it will be a HUGE improvement for our team offense.

Can we get both in 1 player? A part time pg that is a good 3pt shooter? A tall wing 3pt shooter is good too. How about Naz for Barnes? I think TP's trade value is very low. He shot 38.1 from 3s last year but was hurt a lot and inconsistent.