Trade Talk (Part 14): 2023-24 Edition

[moss_is_1]

I know all the talk is Tyus or Morris, but I want Brogdon. I don't know how to make it happen. I don't get paid for that. Connelly needs to get it done.

Brogdon makes $22.5M per year. Only options would be 1) Conley 2) Naz Reid and Kyle Anderson 3) Reid/Shake/TBJ or 4) Anderson/Shake/TBJ/WMJ

In options 3 or 4, we'd have to sign 2 or 3 players to fill out our roster and I don't even know if we'd have cap space to do that.

This. There's 0% chance we trade for Brogdon. The fit would be nice, but he makes too much and is too injury prone. Trading Conley for him and then he misses a bunch of time would be crippling.

[moss_is_1]

Wolves out: Karl Anthony Towns, protections on the 2029 first dropped.
Wolves in: Lauri Markkanen and Dejounte Murray.

Idk how we could get this, but I'd be thrilled. That team would be so smooth.

Murray - Conley
Ant - Naw
Jaden - Slomo
Lauri - Naz
Rudy

Just find another decent shooter to throw out there, add a big backup 5. That team has so much defense, length. Letting Conley play off the bench and reducing his minutes.

[winforlose]

Wolves out: Karl Anthony Towns, protections on the 2029 first dropped.
Wolves in: Lauri Markkanen and Dejounte Murray.

Idk how we could get this, but I'd be thrilled. That team would be so smooth.

Murray - Conley
Ant - Naw
Jaden - Slomo
Lauri - Naz
Rudy

Just find another decent shooter to throw out there, add a big backup 5. That team has so much defense, length. Letting Conley play off the bench and reducing his minutes.

Murray costs 2 firsts, find someone willing to give 5 firsts for KAT and trade them for Markkanen. Protections on 2029 are worth around a first, so Utah sends one out plus one of the 5 and now get 4 plus protections lifted which is the equivalent of a Gobert sized package. This assumes we are willing to trade KAT which I am unsure we are.

[Domejandro]

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Pretty unfortunate, for Minnesota. We are totally cooked, with this news. Hopefully new ownership will spend big next season, but we are definitely facing a huge crunch. Only around $15MM under the second apron, assuming both Shake Milton and Troy Brown Jr. are waived. Maybe can get up to $16MM dumping Wendell Moore Jr. and signing Jaylen Clark to a rookie deal.

Any trade ideas this season should be made with the idea that we cannot enter the Luxury-Tax strongly in mind.

[KGdaBom]

I know all the talk is Tyus or Morris, but I want Brogdon. I don't know how to make it happen. I don't get paid for that. Connelly needs to get it done.

Brogdon makes $22.5M per year. Only options would be 1) Conley 2) Naz Reid and Kyle Anderson 3) Reid/Shake/TBJ or 4) Anderson/Shake/TBJ/WMJ

In options 3 or 4, we'd have to sign 2 or 3 players to fill out our roster and I don't even know if we'd have cap space to do that.

That's why Connelly gets paid the big bucks. To figure that stuff out.

[KGdaBom]

I know all the talk is Tyus or Morris, but I want Brogdon. I don't know how to make it happen. I don't get paid for that. Connelly needs to get it done.

Brogdon makes $22.5M per year. Only options would be 1) Conley 2) Naz Reid and Kyle Anderson 3) Reid/Shake/TBJ or 4) Anderson/Shake/TBJ/WMJ

In options 3 or 4, we'd have to sign 2 or 3 players to fill out our roster and I don't even know if we'd have cap space to do that.

This. There's 0% chance we trade for Brogdon. The fit would be nice, but he makes too much and is too injury prone. Trading Conley for him and then he misses a bunch of time would be crippling.

You are too quick to write it off. There are creative money management types in the NBA that can work wonders.

[KGdaBom]

Wolves out: Karl Anthony Towns, protections on the 2029 first dropped.
Wolves in: Lauri Markkanen and Dejounte Murray.

Idk how we could get this, but I'd be thrilled. That team would be so smooth.

Murray - Conley
Ant - Naw
Jaden - Slomo
Lauri - Naz
Rudy

Just find another decent shooter to throw out there, add a big backup 5. That team has so much defense, length. Letting Conley play off the bench and reducing his minutes.

I'd love that, but I think it's less likely than Brogdon.

[winforlose]

Wolves out: Karl Anthony Towns, protections on the 2029 first dropped.
Wolves in: Lauri Markkanen and Dejounte Murray.

Idk how we could get this, but I'd be thrilled. That team would be so smooth.

Murray - Conley
Ant - Naw
Jaden - Slomo
Lauri - Naz
Rudy

Just find another decent shooter to throw out there, add a big backup 5. That team has so much defense, length. Letting Conley play off the bench and reducing his minutes.

I'd love that, but I think it's less likely than Brogdon.

Compare the value of a Donovan Mitchell type guard to Karl like big. Mitchell type guards are more plentiful and can only pair with so many players. Karl can pair with literally anyone.

[Domejandro]

Brogdon makes $22.5M per year. Only options would be 1) Conley 2) Naz Reid and Kyle Anderson 3) Reid/Shake/TBJ or 4) Anderson/Shake/TBJ/WMJ

In options 3 or 4, we'd have to sign 2 or 3 players to fill out our roster and I don't even know if we'd have cap space to do that.

This. There's 0% chance we trade for Brogdon. The fit would be nice, but he makes too much and is too injury prone. Trading Conley for him and then he misses a bunch of time would be crippling.

You are too quick to write it off. There are creative money management types in the NBA that can work wonders.

For what it is worth, I really have to support others on this one. From a roster construction standpoint, I absolutely agree with you that Malcolm Brogdon is the dream fit, but salary cap wise (an area where I am generally pretty informed as a poster), I really don’t see it as tenable, unfortunately.

Don’t blame you for being optimistic anyways, but figured I’d be super honest about not really seeing a pathway (Not involving any of our starters or Naz Reid, of course). Minnesota’s roster is awesome this season, but that has come at the cost of the team not being particularly flexible financially, for the upcoming 2024 Trade Deadline.

[winforlose]

This. There's 0% chance we trade for Brogdon. The fit would be nice, but he makes too much and is too injury prone. Trading Conley for him and then he misses a bunch of time would be crippling.

You are too quick to write it off. There are creative money management types in the NBA that can work wonders.

For what it is worth, I really have to support others on this one. From a roster construction standpoint, I absolutely agree with you that Malcolm Brogdon is the dream fit, but salary cap wise (an area where I am generally pretty informed as a poster), I really don’t see it as tenable, unfortunately.

Don’t blame you for being optimistic anyways, but figured I’d be super honest about not really seeing a pathway (Not involving any of our starters or Naz Reid, of course). Minnesota’s roster is awesome this season, but that has come at the cost of the team not being particularly flexible financially, for the upcoming 2024 Trade Deadline.

The ability to work wonders is contingent upon being willing to pay the tax. We are also hard capped at the first apron so even within those wonders there are limits. Trading Kyle for a more expensive contract and then trading that player for a more expensive contract, and then trading that player for more is how you could get high enough. The problem is the hard cap pretty much deflates the climb.

[jpatrick]

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Pretty unfortunate, for Minnesota. We are totally cooked, with this news. Hopefully new ownership will spend big next season, but we are definitely facing a huge crunch. Only around $15MM under the second apron, assuming both Shake Milton and Troy Brown Jr. are waived. Maybe can get up to $16MM dumping Wendell Moore Jr. and signing Jaylen Clark to a rookie deal.

Any trade ideas this season should be made with the idea that we cannot enter the Luxury-Tax strongly in mind.

This is too bad. I thought I had read that there was some hope it’d be 10m or so higher but no. We definitely need to stay out of the tax this year, and I don’t see us taking on longterm money at the deadline unless we’re sending out longterm money (Reid, etc). This includes trading real assets for someone like Tyus, who will need to be resigned to a healthy contract.

I think we need to make the finals, maybe conference finals will be enough, to run it back with our current group of large salaries (Ant, KAT, Rudy, McDaniels, Reid). If we sputter, I think one gets moved out because we have zero flexibility to improve the roster.

[BlacJacMac]

Brogdon makes $22.5M per year. Only options would be 1) Conley 2) Naz Reid and Kyle Anderson 3) Reid/Shake/TBJ or 4) Anderson/Shake/TBJ/WMJ

In options 3 or 4, we'd have to sign 2 or 3 players to fill out our roster and I don't even know if we'd have cap space to do that.

This. There's 0% chance we trade for Brogdon. The fit would be nice, but he makes too much and is too injury prone. Trading Conley for him and then he misses a bunch of time would be crippling.

You are too quick to write it off. There are creative money management types in the NBA that can work wonders.

But they still have to work within the constructs of a very limiting CBA.

And the deal has to make sense for Portland. So we can't just dump all our garbage on them and demand a very good player.

The most (only?) realistic option would be Naz and Kyle. Naz gives them a legit (and very good) young piece that fits their timeline and is contract controlled. Kyle is an expiring who they likely could flip for something they actually want.

But I'm not willing to trade Naz for Brogdon.

[KGdaBom]

Idk how we could get this, but I'd be thrilled. That team would be so smooth.

Murray - Conley
Ant - Naw
Jaden - Slomo
Lauri - Naz
Rudy

Just find another decent shooter to throw out there, add a big backup 5. That team has so much defense, length. Letting Conley play off the bench and reducing his minutes.

I'd love that, but I think it's less likely than Brogdon.

Compare the value of a Donovan Mitchell type guard to Karl like big. Mitchell type guards are more plentiful and can only pair with so many players. Karl can pair with literally anyone.

It's Markkanen and Murray. Not one or the other. I can't pass on that.

[shangrila]

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Pretty unfortunate, for Minnesota. We are totally cooked, with this news. Hopefully new ownership will spend big next season, but we are definitely facing a huge crunch. Only around $15MM under the second apron, assuming both Shake Milton and Troy Brown Jr. are waived. Maybe can get up to $16MM dumping Wendell Moore Jr. and signing Jaylen Clark to a rookie deal.

Any trade ideas this season should be made with the idea that we cannot enter the Luxury-Tax strongly in mind.

I don't think it matters. Either way we're not going THAT deep into the 2nd apron so affording an actual team is near-impossible.

I've been consistent that a Finals appearance is the only way this team gets kept together but I've been starting to think otherwise. I'd prepare for a KAT deal that's a combination of a talent downgrade and a significant money saving.

I'm not advocating for it, even though I am the trade KAT guy around here, but it seems inevitable.

[KGdaBom]

This. There's 0% chance we trade for Brogdon. The fit would be nice, but he makes too much and is too injury prone. Trading Conley for him and then he misses a bunch of time would be crippling.

You are too quick to write it off. There are creative money management types in the NBA that can work wonders.

For what it is worth, I really have to support others on this one. From a roster construction standpoint, I absolutely agree with you that Malcolm Brogdon is the dream fit, but salary cap wise (an area where I am generally pretty informed as a poster), I really don’t see it as tenable, unfortunately.

Don’t blame you for being optimistic anyways, but figured I’d be super honest about not really seeing a pathway (Not involving any of our starters or Naz Reid, of course). Minnesota’s roster is awesome this season, but that has come at the cost of the team not being particularly flexible financially, for the upcoming 2024 Trade Deadline.

I hear you. It's unlikely. So is a trade for Tyus, Morris, Burks or whoever. Those are more likely, but don't move the needle IMO. Brogdon moves the needle. He could be the piece that gets us a title. I do see Brogdon as that perfect fit.

[winforlose]

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Pretty unfortunate, for Minnesota. We are totally cooked, with this news. Hopefully new ownership will spend big next season, but we are definitely facing a huge crunch. Only around $15MM under the second apron, assuming both Shake Milton and Troy Brown Jr. are waived. Maybe can get up to $16MM dumping Wendell Moore Jr. and signing Jaylen Clark to a rookie deal.

Any trade ideas this season should be made with the idea that we cannot enter the Luxury-Tax strongly in mind.

This is too bad. I thought I had read that there was some hope it’d be 10m or so higher but no. We definitely need to stay out of the tax this year, and I don’t see us taking on longterm money at the deadline unless we’re sending out longterm money (Reid, etc). This includes trading real assets for someone like Tyus, who will need to be resigned to a healthy contract.

I think we need to make the finals, maybe conference finals will be enough, to run it back with our current group of large salaries (Ant, KAT, Rudy, McDaniels, Reid). If we sputter, I think one gets moved out because we have zero flexibility to improve the roster.

1. I read deeper and it could still get higher. Projections are just for teams to do advanced planning with, but the new tv deal could significantly increase revenue. I am especially curious how streamers are gonna fit in once the exclusive negotiating options end for the current providers.

2. I don’t know the profit projections for the new owners, but I gotta believe they planned with this outcome as a possibility. They were involved in everything from the KAT extension right through the 3 expensive extensions of Naz, Jaden, and Ant. I don’t think they do what they did unless they believe they make both short term profit and long term return on their investment.

3. We always knew we would be second apron. It wasn’t really a question. I don’t see how this changes anything? Ant’s 7 million all NBA bonus could even do more damage. The FO knows what is coming and needs to plan accordingly.

[KGdaBom]

You are too quick to write it off. There are creative money management types in the NBA that can work wonders.

For what it is worth, I really have to support others on this one. From a roster construction standpoint, I absolutely agree with you that Malcolm Brogdon is the dream fit, but salary cap wise (an area where I am generally pretty informed as a poster), I really don’t see it as tenable, unfortunately.

Don’t blame you for being optimistic anyways, but figured I’d be super honest about not really seeing a pathway (Not involving any of our starters or Naz Reid, of course). Minnesota’s roster is awesome this season, but that has come at the cost of the team not being particularly flexible financially, for the upcoming 2024 Trade Deadline.

The ability to work wonders is contingent upon being willing to pay the tax. We are also hard capped at the first apron so even within those wonders there are limits. Trading Kyle for a more expensive contract and then trading that player for a more expensive contract, and then trading that player for more is how you could get high enough. The problem is the hard cap pretty much deflates the climb.

If you're a cap wiz good for you. I just expect Brogdon is available, would cost less in assets than his skill level would indicate, and would elevate our chances for a title way more than Monte Morris or Tyus Jones. All of those are unlikely to happen, but I'll set my sites on a guy who could make a difference.

[KGdaBom]

This. There's 0% chance we trade for Brogdon. The fit would be nice, but he makes too much and is too injury prone. Trading Conley for him and then he misses a bunch of time would be crippling.

You are too quick to write it off. There are creative money management types in the NBA that can work wonders.

But they still have to work within the constructs of a very limiting CBA.

And the deal has to make sense for Portland. So we can't just dump all our garbage on them and demand a very good player.

The most (only?) realistic option would be Naz and Kyle. Naz gives them a legit (and very good) young piece that fits their timeline and is contract controlled. Kyle is an expiring who they likely could flip for something they actually want.

But I'm not willing to trade Naz for Brogdon.

Naz for Brogdon is very interesting.

[BlacJacMac]

You are too quick to write it off. There are creative money management types in the NBA that can work wonders.

But they still have to work within the constructs of a very limiting CBA.

And the deal has to make sense for Portland. So we can't just dump all our garbage on them and demand a very good player.

The most (only?) realistic option would be Naz and Kyle. Naz gives them a legit (and very good) young piece that fits their timeline and is contract controlled. Kyle is an expiring who they likely could flip for something they actually want.

But I'm not willing to trade Naz for Brogdon.

Naz for Brogdon is very interesting.

Naz AND Kyle.

So we're really gutting our frontcourt. It literally makes Jaden our starting SF and our 3rd Big. We'd actually be in worse shape with an injury to Rudy or KAT than we are with Conley now.

We'd have to find a legit rotation-worthy big somewhere (and its 100% not Garza, Minott or Miller).

[KGdaBom]

But they still have to work within the constructs of a very limiting CBA.

And the deal has to make sense for Portland. So we can't just dump all our garbage on them and demand a very good player.

The most (only?) realistic option would be Naz and Kyle. Naz gives them a legit (and very good) young piece that fits their timeline and is contract controlled. Kyle is an expiring who they likely could flip for something they actually want.

But I'm not willing to trade Naz for Brogdon.

Naz for Brogdon is very interesting.

Naz AND Kyle.

So we're really gutting our frontcourt. It literally makes Jaden our starting SF and our 3rd Big. We'd actually be in worse shape with an injury to Rudy or KAT than we are with Conley now.

We'd have to find a legit rotation-worthy big somewhere (and its 100% not Garza, Minott or Miller).

I'm going with Miller. Portland would take Naz, because he's better for their long term plans than Brogdon. The question is whether Brogdon is better for our short term plans than Naz.