Trade Talk (Part Four)

[minimus]

Elite offense meets elite defense.

1) Our FRP(Wiseman), Culver, Spellman for Marcus Smart, #17 pick

2) BRO pick, JJ, Evans, Nowell for Aaron Gordon

Then draft Saddiq Bey, Paul Reed. Resign Martin, McLaughlin.

KAT/Reid/Reed
Gordon/Juancho/Vanderbilt
Okogie/Layman/Bey
Beasley/Smart/Martin
DLo/McLaughlin/Smart

[wolves_89]

Idk if anyone else brought him up but Marvin Bagley might be available. His value is probably depressed right now and Rosas might be able to buy low on him. I'm not sure he actually fits the team though.

I don't see Bagley as a very attractive trade option. Since he's a poor shooter and can't really guard wings on defense, the Wolves system would limit him to being Towns backup. At $9M and $11.3M the next two seasons he's not even particularly cheap. Naz Reid seems like a much better fit at backup center since he can at least stretch the floor (and at under $2M each of the next 3 seasons makes a lot more sense financially).

[Neeva]

Elite offense meets elite defense.

1) Our FRP(Wiseman), Culver, Spellman for Marcus Smart, #17 pick

2) BRO pick, JJ, Evans, Nowell for Aaron Gordon

Then draft Saddiq Bey, Paul Reed. Resign Martin, McLaughlin.

KAT/Reid/Reed
Gordon/Juancho/Vanderbilt
Okogie/Layman/Bey
Beasley/Smart/Martin
DLo/McLaughlin/Smart

Definitely don’t want to use the pick and culver on a player like Smart.

[Neeva]

Idk if anyone else brought him up but Marvin Bagley might be available. His value is probably depressed right now and Rosas might be able to buy low on him. I'm not sure he actually fits the team though.

Hmmm interesting , but not sure if he is a fit next to Towns either. Not sure who would be better Bagley or Gordon?

[karch34]

One question. If Giannis does not win in these playoffs and leaves MIL, would you trade our FRP, Culver, JJ, Spellman, Evans, Vanderbilt for Khris Middleton?

Khris Middleton averages 21ppg, 50%FG, 41% from 3pt, 6.2rpg, 4.1apg.

Then draft Kira Lewis Jr and Tyley Bey/Paul Reed. Resign Martin, McLaughlin. Sign Harry Giles to min deal.

KAT/Reid/Giles
Bey/Layman//Giles
Middleton/Martin/Layman
Beasley/Okogie/Nowell
DLo/McLaughlin/Lewis

Middleton would be a great addition but at $35m/year hard to say he's the final piece which he'd have to be considering the cap.

[Neeva]

One question. If Giannis does not win in these playoffs and leaves MIL, would you trade our FRP, Culver, JJ, Spellman, Evans, Vanderbilt for Khris Middleton?

Khris Middleton averages 21ppg, 50%FG, 41% from 3pt, 6.2rpg, 4.1apg.

Then draft Kira Lewis Jr and Tyley Bey/Paul Reed. Resign Martin, McLaughlin. Sign Harry Giles to min deal.

KAT/Reid/Giles
Bey/Layman//Giles
Middleton/Martin/Layman
Beasley/Okogie/Nowell
DLo/McLaughlin/Lewis

Middleton would be a great addition but at $35m/year hard to say he's the final piece which he'd have to be considering the cap.

His contract is gross, not a superstar but getting paid like one.

[minimus]

Idk if anyone else brought him up but Marvin Bagley might be available. His value is probably depressed right now and Rosas might be able to buy low on him. I'm not sure he actually fits the team though.

Hmmm interesting , but not sure if he is a fit next to Towns either. Not sure who would be better Bagley or Gordon?

Gordon would be much better because of his versatility and defense.

[minimus]

Elite offense meets elite defense.

1) Our FRP(Wiseman), Culver, Spellman for Marcus Smart, #17 pick

2) BRO pick, JJ, Evans, Nowell for Aaron Gordon

Then draft Saddiq Bey, Paul Reed. Resign Martin, McLaughlin.

KAT/Reid/Reed
Gordon/Juancho/Vanderbilt
Okogie/Layman/Bey
Beasley/Smart/Martin
DLo/McLaughlin/Smart

Definitely don’t want to use the pick and culver on a player like Smart.

That would be definitely a win now move. We would sacrifice a lot of potential, BUT we would also bring a lot of stability for next two years. At some point we need to add established players to stabilize our roster long term. We need veterans. I am also wondering if veterans presence can accelerate other young player development. For instance, Smart and Okogie working together in practice and real games.

[shrink]

Elite offense meets elite defense.

1) Our FRP(Wiseman), Culver, Spellman for Marcus Smart, #17 pick

2) BRO pick, JJ, Evans, Nowell for Aaron Gordon

Then draft Saddiq Bey, Paul Reed. Resign Martin, McLaughlin.

KAT/Reid/Reed
Gordon/Juancho/Vanderbilt
Okogie/Layman/Bey
Beasley/Smart/Martin
DLo/McLaughlin/Smart

Definitely don’t want to use the pick and culver on a player like Smart.

Especially if he’s a back up for DLo and Beasley. Smart outperformed his contract last year, but that’s still a worrisome deal.

I don’t mind Gordon at that price, but his questionable three point shooting and lack of development the last four years makes me wonder if he is as great a fit in this Wolves system as everyone seems to believe. I think MIN fans are so desperate for success, that we name talented (and expensive) players like Gordon, Smart and Ben Simmons, even when they don’t fit the plan. I think at this point, we need to find and develop cheap young talent, rather than swing at $20-30 mil dollar players.

[minimus]

Elite offense meets elite defense.

1) Our FRP(Wiseman), Culver, Spellman for Marcus Smart, #17 pick

2) BRO pick, JJ, Evans, Nowell for Aaron Gordon

Then draft Saddiq Bey, Paul Reed. Resign Martin, McLaughlin.

KAT/Reid/Reed
Gordon/Juancho/Vanderbilt
Okogie/Layman/Bey
Beasley/Smart/Martin
DLo/McLaughlin/Smart

Definitely don’t want to use the pick and culver on a player like Smart.

Especially if he’s a back up for DLo and Beasley. Smart outperformed his contract last year, but that’s still a worrisome deal.

I don’t mind Gordon at that price, but his questionable three point shooting and lack of development the last four years makes me wonder if he is as great a fit in this Wolves system as everyone seems to believe. I think MIN fans are so desperate for success, that we name talented (and expensive) players like Gordon, Smart and Ben Simmons, even when they don’t fit the plan. I think at this point, we need to find and develop cheap young talent, rather than swing at $20-30 mil dollar players.

Marcus Smart will be paid 13 mil next season and 14 mil in 21-22.
Aaron Gordon will be paid 18 mil next season and 16 mil in 21-22.

Thats 31 mil per year. I'd say it is okay price for two solid role players who do fit. They can guard multiple positions, they can pass, slash and shoot. The real question is how we are going to use next two seasons. I agree that we need to use these two years to develop all our young players such as Culver, Okogie, Nowell, Vanderbilt, Reid, KAT, DLo, two FRPs and SRP. But bringing here Smart and Gordon might be really beneficial for our core players to play with two experienced players who come from successful defensive systems such as BOS and ORL. I don't see any real concern with bringing here Simmons except for his contract. You always could use a top talent guy, always. HOU tried with CP3, now with Westbrook.

[Neeva]

If Culver’s shot does not look improved I hope Rosas pulls the trigger and trades him before his stock falls.
maybe Culver and 15th for Bagley and the Kings pick?

[iamworthy]

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[minimus]

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Sorry, but I cant take BR seriously. Especially after they wrote article about GMs rating and put there Layden name. And those trade are simply awful.

[shrink]

Thanks for posting that Iamworthy.

I agree with minimus about these trades. I don’t think Culver has shown much this season to have a lot of trade value. As for Malik Beasley, every player that does through free agency gets a contract that the highest bidder offers. At best, that’s neutral value, and for most teams, the offer was higher than they would offer (if they legally could). In addition, a sign-and-trade automatically hard caps the team, and that can be a huge problem, like we saw in Golden State this year. Sign-and-trades for non-max players don’t have a lot of trade value.

In the end, to me these trades seem wildly uneven. The targets are wildly different in age and position (I doubt any team interested in Chris Paul is also looking for Isaacs!), and in most cases, I don’t see the other teams breaking these players into the Wolves’ less valuable pieces. I understand that the Wolves are one of the hardest teams in the league right now to find correctly-fitting talent, but this feels to me like more of the directionless stab at any talented player that I see more and more often from fans desperate to improve.

I’d be amused to read the responses if these trades were put in front of the non-partisan Trade Board.

[Domejandro]

If that is Jonathan Isaac's value (it isn't), I couldn't imagine Minnesota passing on that.

[Shaka_Zulu]

Offf, I would sooooo love Jonathan Isaac with Towns, cant think of a more amazing fit.

[minimus]

An offseason scenario I'd happy with:

1) BRO pick, JJ, Evans, Nowell for Aaron Gordon
2) Culver, MIN FRP, Spellman for NAW, #13, LAL FRP 2021
3) Sign Glenn Robinson III as FA, contract similar to Layman.

Then draft Saddiq Bey, Tyler Bey. Resign Martin, McLaughlin.

KAT/Reid/Tyler Bey
Gordon/Juancho/Layman + Vanderbilt
Robinson/Layman/Saddiq Bey
Beasley/Okogie/NAW
DLo/McLaughlin/NAW

[ClarkeW]

Count me in the camp who thinks Jonathan Isaac would be the perfect complement to KAT. Don’t think it’s realistic... but I can dream, can’t I?

[minimus]

A 2&D star no one speaks about

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250 lbs?!

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[minimus]

1) JJ for GSW TPE
Why for GSW: their TPE will expire after first day of FA market, while JJ contract can be used later in trades.

2) Culver, MIN FRP, Spellman, Nowell, Evans for Dejonte Murray
Why for SAS: they get multiple assests to develop and rebuild. They could use top3 pick and their #11 to make strong foundation.

3) Re-sign Juancho to 15mil/3yrs deal
4) Re-sign Beasley to 52mil/4yrs deal

Then draft Saddiq Bey, Tyler Bey or Paul Reed. Resign Martin, McLaughlin.

KAT/Reid/Tyler Bey
Tyler Bey/Juancho/Vanderbilt
Layman/Saddiq Bey/Martin
Beasley/Okogie/Murray
DLo/Murray/McLaughlin

Tyler Bey and Layman are a "fake" starters. While they start games, I would play wide rotation, including three guards lineup with DLo-Murray-Beasley, a lot of two PG lineups with combination of two from DLo-Murray-McLaughlin. The weakest slot is PF, but Layman-Bey-Juancho might handle this duty well enough.

The idea of this trade was born after I looked at DAL roster. How they invested heavily in role players around KP and Luka. They gambled, paid hefty contracts, in order to create a core of young players who can play together next 2-3 years.

Dwight Powell. Rim runner, very mobile defender, set good screens. Has 33mil/3yrs left.
Delon Wright. Versatile defender, secondary ballhandler. 9mil and 8.5mil.
Maxi Kleber. Has 25mil/3yrs left.
Set Curry. Elite shooter. Has 25mil/3yrs left.
Dorian Finney-Smith. 3&D. Has 8mil/2yrs left.
Jalen Brunson. Backup PG, third ballhandler in rotation. Rookie contract.

Thats a huge investment, but they can afford it, since the have Luka on rookie deal. In my scenario we invest in:

Dejonte Murray. Elite defender, athletic slasher, who complement Beasley and DLo well. 38% from 3pt line. 15mil per year.
Tyler Bey. Versatile defender, rim runner, who complement KAT/Reid/Juancho well. Has potential as shooter. Rookie deal.
Beasley. Elite C&S option at SG. 13 mil per year.
Juancho. Elite stretch four. 5 mil per year.
Saddiq Bey. Big wing. Versatile scorer and defender. Rookie deal.
McLaughlin. Solid passer, ballhandler and decision making from backup PG. 1+3 deal
Martin. Big wing. Versatile scorer and defender. 3rd string scorer, emergency wing. 1+3 deal

Thats 15man rotation, which costs around 110mil per year.

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