Trade Talk (Part Nine) (READ FIRST POST)

[Neeva]

Who on the 2019 roster was better at PF? Also what else do you call Culver. Rookie season 40% from the field on 29.9% from 3 and 46% from the free throw line. Those numbers don’t get better in his second year.

The guy averaged 10-5. We basically just shipped out the same exact player in Juancho. Saying he's the "best PF" like it means anything is stupid.

I call Culver a bad pick but, as I said, that whole draft sucks. Nor has Culver held the team back or crippled us going forward. So "catastrophe" is some hyperbolic BS.

Dario was our starting PF. We didn’t have a good replacement ready for him that year. It is a basic fact. I am not saying Dario is Gods gift to basketball, I am saying his relative value was higher on our team because we lacked PF depth.

As for the Culver catastrophe. When you lose a value player and draft a bad player with a high pick what do you call it. Add to that he got worse in his second season and we couldn’t get a second round pick for him going into his third year, what do you call that. He was a freaking 6 pick.

If posters and Rosas could tell right away that Culver was a blown pick then Rosas should have unloaded him right away instead of waiting till after his second year. Rosas should NOT be getting praise for putting an old bandaid over his stupid past decisions ( trading up for culver and overpaying jauncho)

[shangrila]

The guy averaged 10-5. We basically just shipped out the same exact player in Juancho. Saying he's the "best PF" like it means anything is stupid.

I call Culver a bad pick but, as I said, that whole draft sucks. Nor has Culver held the team back or crippled us going forward. So "catastrophe" is some hyperbolic BS.

Dario was our starting PF. We didn’t have a good replacement ready for him that year. It is a basic fact. I am not saying Dario is Gods gift to basketball, I am saying his relative value was higher on our team because we lacked PF depth.

As for the Culver catastrophe. When you lose a value player and draft a bad player with a high pick what do you call it. Add to that he got worse in his second season and we couldn’t get a second round pick for him going into his third year, what do you call that. He was a freaking 6 pick.

If posters and Rosas could tell right away that Culver was a blown pick then Rosas should have unloaded him right away instead of waiting till after his second year. Rosas should NOT be getting praise for putting an old bandaid over his stupid past decisions ( trading up for culver and overpaying jauncho)

I said I was giving him a mulligan. That's not praise.

[younggunsmn]

If we end up dealing Beverly away in a Simmons trade maybe we can get Kris Dunn form the Grizz for Jake Layman.
Saves a little salary for them, defensive minded backup PG/SG for us.

[Mamba4Goat]

If we end up dealing Beverly away in a Simmons trade maybe we can get Kris Dunn form the Grizz for Jake Layman.
Saves a little salary for them, defensive minded backup PG/SG for us.

Bev works because he’s at least a shooter. Kris Dunn doesn’t offer a whole lot in that department and if Simmons is on the roster he makes a lot less sense. The team would be better off running Okogie in whatever role Dunn would get. Also, lux tax concerns probably don’t go away after a Simmons deal and doubling Layman’s salary isn’t ideal.

[Slim Tubby]

Who on the 2019 roster was better at PF? Also what else do you call Culver. Rookie season 40% from the field on 29.9% from 3 and 46% from the free throw line. Those numbers don’t get better in his second year.

The guy averaged 10-5. We basically just shipped out the same exact player in Juancho. Saying he's the "best PF" like it means anything is stupid.

I call Culver a bad pick but, as I said, that whole draft sucks. Nor has Culver held the team back or crippled us going forward. So "catastrophe" is some hyperbolic BS.

Dario was our starting PF. We didn’t have a good replacement ready for him that year. It is a basic fact. I am not saying Dario is Gods gift to basketball, I am saying his relative value was higher on our team because we lacked PF depth.

As for the Culver catastrophe. When you lose a value player and draft a bad player with a high pick what do you call it. Add to that he got worse in his second season and we couldn’t get a second round pick for him going into his third year, what do you call that. He was a freaking 6 pick.

Virtually every NBA expert and talent evaluator had Culver rated as the 5-7 best prospect in the draft. He was drafted right where he was supposed to yet you react as if Rosas was the only person who felt this way. EVERYONE got this wrong.


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[winforlose]

The guy averaged 10-5. We basically just shipped out the same exact player in Juancho. Saying he's the "best PF" like it means anything is stupid.

I call Culver a bad pick but, as I said, that whole draft sucks. Nor has Culver held the team back or crippled us going forward. So "catastrophe" is some hyperbolic BS.

Dario was our starting PF. We didn’t have a good replacement ready for him that year. It is a basic fact. I am not saying Dario is Gods gift to basketball, I am saying his relative value was higher on our team because we lacked PF depth.

As for the Culver catastrophe. When you lose a value player and draft a bad player with a high pick what do you call it. Add to that he got worse in his second season and we couldn’t get a second round pick for him going into his third year, what do you call that. He was a freaking 6 pick.

Virtually every NBA expert and talent evaluator had Culver rated as the 5-7 best prospect in the draft. He was drafted right where he was supposed to yet you react as if Rosas was the only person who felt this way. EVERYONE got this wrong.


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Assume for the sake of argument you are correct. My point is we didn’t have the #6 we had the #11. If. Culver is your guy and you sure you want him then fine, but you are giving up your starting PF at the time and another player who probably would be rotation worthy to try and grab a stud. You better be very sure before you roll those dice. Thus if you are that sure why do you get a mulligan? Also can anyone explain why Culver didn’t go to the G and learn to play the game before destroying his confidence at the pro level. Culver was mismanaged from selection all the way through his time here. For example why play him on a bad ankle and further sink his trade value to the point where he isn’t worth a second round pick?

[Slim Tubby]

Dario was our starting PF. We didn’t have a good replacement ready for him that year. It is a basic fact. I am not saying Dario is Gods gift to basketball, I am saying his relative value was higher on our team because we lacked PF depth.

As for the Culver catastrophe. When you lose a value player and draft a bad player with a high pick what do you call it. Add to that he got worse in his second season and we couldn’t get a second round pick for him going into his third year, what do you call that. He was a freaking 6 pick.

Virtually every NBA expert and talent evaluator had Culver rated as the 5-7 best prospect in the draft. He was drafted right where he was supposed to yet you react as if Rosas was the only person who felt this way. EVERYONE got this wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Assume for the sake of argument you are correct. My point is we didn’t have the #6 we had the #11. If. Culver is your guy and you sure you want him then fine, but you are giving up your starting PF at the time and another player who probably would be rotation worthy to try and grab a stud. You better be very sure before you roll those dice. Thus if you are that sure why do you get a mulligan? Also can anyone explain why Culver didn’t go to the G and learn to play the game before destroying his confidence at the pro level. Culver was mismanaged from selection all the way through his time here. For example why play him on a bad ankle and further sink his trade value to the point where he isn’t worth a second round pick?

Whatever…I’m not going to argue with you about this. I’d much rather have a GM that is aggressive and proactive in his duties. Rosas has done far more good than bad during his tenure and that is not debatable.


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[KGdaBom]

If we end up dealing Beverly away in a Simmons trade maybe we can get Kris Dunn form the Grizz for Jake Layman.
Saves a little salary for them, defensive minded backup PG/SG for us.

I have zero interest in Dunn and would not take him if he was offered to us for nothing.

[Slim Tubby]

If we end up dealing Beverly away in a Simmons trade maybe we can get Kris Dunn form the Grizz for Jake Layman.
Saves a little salary for them, defensive minded backup PG/SG for us.

I have zero interest in Dunn and would not take him if he was offered to us for nothing.

This is the correct answer.


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[KGdaBom]

Dario was our starting PF. We didn’t have a good replacement ready for him that year. It is a basic fact. I am not saying Dario is Gods gift to basketball, I am saying his relative value was higher on our team because we lacked PF depth.

As for the Culver catastrophe. When you lose a value player and draft a bad player with a high pick what do you call it. Add to that he got worse in his second season and we couldn’t get a second round pick for him going into his third year, what do you call that. He was a freaking 6 pick.

Virtually every NBA expert and talent evaluator had Culver rated as the 5-7 best prospect in the draft. He was drafted right where he was supposed to yet you react as if Rosas was the only person who felt this way. EVERYONE got this wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Assume for the sake of argument you are correct. My point is we didn’t have the #6 we had the #11. If. Culver is your guy and you sure you want him then fine, but you are giving up your starting PF at the time and another player who probably would be rotation worthy to try and grab a stud. You better be very sure before you roll those dice. Thus if you are that sure why do you get a mulligan? Also can anyone explain why Culver didn’t go to the G and learn to play the game before destroying his confidence at the pro level. Culver was mismanaged from selection all the way through his time here. For example why play him on a bad ankle and further sink his trade value to the point where he isn’t worth a second round pick?

Everybody had Culver in that area. Culver has all the physical gifts in the world, but he doesn't have the confidence needed to succeed in the NBA right now. Maybe he will find that confidence. I think he's a good guy and I wish him the best, but trading up for Culver while not what I would have done is very understandable and only looks bad with 20/20 hindsight. That's what I take giving him a mulligan to mean. To me it's an easy mistake to overlook. You perhaps see it differently. No right or wrong answer to this.

[Krapinsky]

Virtually every NBA expert and talent evaluator had Culver rated as the 5-7 best prospect in the draft. He was drafted right where he was supposed to yet you react as if Rosas was the only person who felt this way. EVERYONE got this wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Assume for the sake of argument you are correct. My point is we didn’t have the #6 we had the #11. If. Culver is your guy and you sure you want him then fine, but you are giving up your starting PF at the time and another player who probably would be rotation worthy to try and grab a stud. You better be very sure before you roll those dice. Thus if you are that sure why do you get a mulligan? Also can anyone explain why Culver didn’t go to the G and learn to play the game before destroying his confidence at the pro level. Culver was mismanaged from selection all the way through his time here. For example why play him on a bad ankle and further sink his trade value to the point where he isn’t worth a second round pick?

Everybody had Culver in that area. Culver has all the physical gifts in the world, but he doesn't have the confidence needed to succeed in the NBA right now. Maybe he will find that confidence. I think he's a good guy and I wish him the best, but trading up for Culver while not what I would have done is very understandable and only looks bad with 20/20 hindsight. That's what I take giving him a mulligan to mean. To me it's an easy mistake to overlook. You perhaps see it differently. No right or wrong answer to this.

Garland was always the target. No one thought Cleveland would take Garland when they already had Sexton. Rosas made his moves to get to where he thought he needed to go and came up empty. Unfortunately plan B was Culver. Saric was as unhappy as they come here.

[SO_MONEY]

Assume for the sake of argument you are correct. My point is we didn’t have the #6 we had the #11. If. Culver is your guy and you sure you want him then fine, but you are giving up your starting PF at the time and another player who probably would be rotation worthy to try and grab a stud. You better be very sure before you roll those dice. Thus if you are that sure why do you get a mulligan? Also can anyone explain why Culver didn’t go to the G and learn to play the game before destroying his confidence at the pro level. Culver was mismanaged from selection all the way through his time here. For example why play him on a bad ankle and further sink his trade value to the point where he isn’t worth a second round pick?

Everybody had Culver in that area. Culver has all the physical gifts in the world, but he doesn't have the confidence needed to succeed in the NBA right now. Maybe he will find that confidence. I think he's a good guy and I wish him the best, but trading up for Culver while not what I would have done is very understandable and only looks bad with 20/20 hindsight. That's what I take giving him a mulligan to mean. To me it's an easy mistake to overlook. You perhaps see it differently. No right or wrong answer to this.

Garland was always the target. No one thought Cleveland would take Garland when they already had Sexton. Rosas made his moves to get to where he thought he needed to go and came up empty. Unfortunately plan B was Culver. Saric was as unhappy as they come here.

I think the biggest takeaway is that it leaked, who Rosas was targeting HOURS, if not a DAY prior. He has since apparently addressed this issue and has run a tight ship, with virtually no foresight into his moves. What happened that draft night might be more the result of a bad actor than Rosas himself.

[minimus]

Some thoughts:

*- PHI wont get tier1 star (Beal, Dame etc) in Ben Simmons. Butler and Harden trades give us idea of return for players in such situation. But they can target tier 2 player such as FVV, Brogdon. MIN might jump into such trade, once Prince/Beverly are availabe for a trade. I see PHI interested in a package of FVV/Brogdon + Prince + unprotected picks

* - If Ben Simmons is not traded in MIN, I believe that Rosas can pull one small trade to get veteran PF from teams, which are either deep at PF position or have PFS who dont fit their plan, for instance SAS with Young/Aminu, MEM with Clarke, TOR with Boucher, WAS with Kuzma. Rosas can use our three future SRPs to make it work

* - I still believe that we can be a successful team playing 1-3-1 scheme, but in this case Rosas MUST find big wings who are better than Okogie/Layman. Prince trade is a good step in this direction. Lets keep this as plan B: get bigger at SF position (play MCD), get versatile at PF (Prince+???). Trade Okogie for Daniel House Jr? I also believe that if Rosas can get an elite 3&D at SF position, then we can absolutely play 1-3-1 scheme. For instance, a player like Lu Dort can make our 1-3-1 scheme a mathchup nightmare for smallball teams

* - I still hope that we can find a player for minimal contract, who can add some depth at PF/SF position. James Ennis III, Stanley Johnson, Chandler Hutchison, Alfonzo McKinnie

* - we finally resign Vando and Bolmaro

To sum up: my three scenarios.

First, ideal scenario, Rosas works with Morey once again to assembe big four in MIN, we trade Prince, Beasley, three FRPs, two pick swap rights in three team trade, get Simmons.

KAT/Reid + Knight
Simmson/Vando/Layman
MCD//Edwards/Okogie
Edwards/Nowell/Bolmaro
DLo/Beverly/Nowell + Wright

Second, realistic scenario, Rosas works with HOU office once again to give another chance to 1-3-1 scheme, we trade Okogie, Layman, SRP (to OKC to absorb Okogie contract) for Daniel House Jr, we offer James Ennis III 10mil/2yrs contract

KAT/Reid + Knight
Ennis/Vando/MCD
MCD/Prince/House Jr
Edwards/Beasley/Nowell
DLo/Beverly/Bolmaro + Wright

Ennis-MCD-Edwards-Prince-House at wings is an interchangable combo of players who are 6'6"+, can rebound, shoot and defend.

Third, worst case scenario, we trade Okogie, Layman for Aminu. We resign Vando, sign Bolmaro.

KAT/Reid + Knight
Vando/MCD/Aminu
MCD/Prince/Edwards
Edwards/Beasley/Nowell
DLo/Beverly/Bolmaro + Wright

[younggunsmn]

If we end up dealing Beverly away in a Simmons trade maybe we can get Kris Dunn form the Grizz for Jake Layman.
Saves a little salary for them, defensive minded backup PG/SG for us.

Bev works because he’s at least a shooter. Kris Dunn doesn’t offer a whole lot in that department and if Simmons is on the roster he makes a lot less sense. The team would be better off running Okogie in whatever role Dunn would get. Also, lux tax concerns probably don’t go away after a Simmons deal and doubling Layman’s salary isn’t ideal.

Well Dunn makes 5.0 and Layman 3.9. Its not adding that much. It's just a thought about turning a player with no use for us and his salary into someone who could fill a role as a defensive bench PG/SG should we trade away Beverly.
I get that he isnt a great offensive player, but he is pretty good defensively which is not something you find much elsewhere on our roster and essentially adding him for 1.1 million is something I would be more than happy to do. You aren't going to find perfect players when filling out the bottom of your rotation.

He also can handle the ball which Okogie can't do. I could make the argument he's more useful than Okogie as a switchable defensive guard who can also handle the ball. I don't get the hate unless his injury from last year is more serious than what I've heard.

[shrink]

Wolves Win reminded me that one possible trade asset that we never seem to discuss is Bolmaro.

It makes sense that we hear so little, though. Yes, he was the #23 pick, but since he isn’t staying in Europe next season, his value could be higher. ESPN’s Mike Schmitz considered him for the last lottery spot in his re-draft.

But the problem is figuring out what he would be worth to a different team. I once heard this line, and it’s probably true.

“the value of Euro’s is very much in the eye of the beholder.”

We like him - it’s why we drafted him. But some other GM might not even give a 2nd. With Euro’s being outside of most American-based analytics, playing in different leagues with coaches with different styles, there is often a wide variation in where different GM’s would value a guy.

[moonpie]

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[Dewey]

Garland was always the target. No one thought Cleveland would take Garland when they already had Sexton. Rosas made his moves to get to where he thought he needed to go and came up empty. Unfortunately plan B was Culver. Saric was as unhappy as they come here.

Ya agree ... he made a move for a good PG prospect and it didnt go the way most would've expected. I can't fault him for the outcome knowing the intention was Garland. Thats was a solid target. Saric is a decent 5th wheel. He had a solid role here, but never warmed up to MN and one has to adnit its been a little tough to take even as long-time fans.

[zimpy27]

Would you trade Beasley/McDaniels to get Gordon?

[Domejandro]

Would you trade Beasley/McDaniels to get Gordon?

Absolutely not, and I say that as someone who thinks the rest of the forum is lost in the sauce regarding Jaden McDaniels being “untradable”.

[zimpy27]

Would you trade Beasley/McDaniels to get Gordon?

Absolutely not, and I say that as someone who thinks the rest of the forum is lost in the sauce regarding Jaden McDaniels being “untradable”.

I should clarify that I mean Aaron Gordon. What would you give up for Aaron Gordon?