Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition)

[shangrila]

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I wonder how much "drop back in the standings" is in their mind?

Because they've shown they can win in the regular season, its the playoffs that always give them trouble. Maybe taking a step back in one will lead to more success in the other?

[King Malta]

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[Tukkerwolf]

To be honest, that sounds like the most reasonable thing to do for them.

[SO_MONEY]

To be honest, that sounds like the most reasonable thing to do for them.

I don't know what they should do after messing this all up, but using fines would be a massive mistake. They already have lost credibility, you don't want to be the team that tosses a "star" player under the bus, then fines him. I can tell you that isn't going to work out.

[shrink]

At this point, I admit I still don’t know how this is going to play out.

I feel like if this was Morey’s decision alone, he would just hold onto Simmons and trade him later, even if he refused to play another second for PHI. However, ownership, media, and fandom all can put pressure to see something get done. The person that has the most power in this isn’t Morey - it’s Embiid. He may tell Morey,

“I don’t want to go into training camp where every question I’m asked is, “Did my post game comments cost the Sixers Ben Simmons?” or, “Is your team still a contender without Simmons?” I deserve to have them asking me about me, about my great season last year! Make a damn deal.”

Morey’s only just got there, and he’s already lost one star. He can’t afford to lose the other.

[SO_MONEY]

At this point, I admit I still don’t know how this is going to play out.

I feel like if this was Morey’s decision alone, he would just hold onto Simmons and trade him later, even if he refused to play another second for PHI. However, ownership, media, and fandom all can put pressure to see something get done. The person that has the most power in this isn’t Morey - it’s Embiid. He may tell Morey,

“I don’t want to go into training camp where every question I’m asked is, “Did my post game comments cost the Sixers Ben Simmons?” or, “Is your team still a contender without Simmons?” I deserve to have them asking me about me, about my great season last year! Make a damn deal.”

Morey’s only just got there, and he’s already lost one star. He can’t afford to lose the other.

I don't really buy the Embid angle. Everything they are going to do is for his and the team's long-term benefit... regardless of if it plays out that way. Collectively creating team dysfunction is a greater issue, but still not as great as the reputational damage they could cause... though ultimately it is holistic.

[jpatrick]

I don’t know if Embiid will go to management and make demands. Just doesn’t seem like him. He doesn’t even have an agent.

What he will do is post things on social medial and say things during interviews. He’s genuinely funny but will low key take shots at people, including Simmons. Even his tweet a couple weeks ago in support of Simmons was really a shot at him (said something like not all people can take the heat/criticism like he can).

[Baseline81]

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Does anyone think Simmons would give half effort if forced to show up?

[SO_MONEY]

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Does anyone think Simmons would give half effort if forced to show up?

I think if "forced" into playing, you are probably looking at a complete mental collapse. I don't think he can handle what would come his way and to be honest not many could. In that market, it is going to be really untenable.

[old school 34]

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Does anyone think Simmons would give half effort if forced to show up?

I think if "forced" into playing, you are probably looking at a complete mental collapse. I don't think he can handle what would come his way and to be honest not many could. In that market, it is going to be really untenable.

It's either that or what I'm thinking more likely is a sudden injury.

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[My Main Man]

Imagine if they forced him to camp and he tore an ACL or achilles or something.

[Wolveswin]

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Does anyone think Simmons would give half effort if forced to show up?

No. But maybe a nagging hamstring would sideline him.

From the Wolves standpoint, I wouldn’t mind this dragging on until sometime in the season…

A) Get a larger sample size of McDaniels. He might prove more valuable to Philly or even become too valuable for Wolves to move.

B) Beasley splashing down 3s could raise his value tremendously as he gets farther removed from legal troubles.

This will sound very homer, if both of those hold true to very true, I can see a world in which Wolves don’t want to trade those players for Simmons.

[Nick K]

At this point, I admit I still don’t know how this is going to play out.

I feel like if this was Morey’s decision alone, he would just hold onto Simmons and trade him later, even if he refused to play another second for PHI. However, ownership, media, and fandom all can put pressure to see something get done. The person that has the most power in this isn’t Morey - it’s Embiid. He may tell Morey,

“I don’t want to go into training camp where every question I’m asked is, “Did my post game comments cost the Sixers Ben Simmons?” or, “Is your team still a contender without Simmons?” I deserve to have them asking me about me, about my great season last year! Make a damn deal.”

Morey’s only just got there, and he’s already lost one star. He can’t afford to lose the other.

I don't really buy the Embid angle. Everything they are going to do is for his and the team's long-term benefit... regardless of if it plays out that way. Collectively creating team dysfunction is a greater issue, but still not as great as the reputational damage they could cause... though ultimately it is holistic.

Bottom line is, even if he (Morey) gets a couple of very good players plus picks being less than his fair perceived value, he is far better off than trying to keep an unhappy player who has said he won't play for them. The questions and distractions are a killer in every way. He may ultimately get even less than he could now.

It's Philly's fault for throwing Ben under the bus. Now they have to pay that price.

I'm less impressed with Morey by the day. He ended up destroying Houston and now he's doing Philly no favors.

[Nick K]

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Does anyone actually think a fine is going to motivate Simmons to show up?? He's a multi, multi, multi millionaire.....he can afford it. Plus I read he is being paid half his salary before camp even opens.

[Klomp]

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Does anyone actually think a fine is going to motivate Simmons to show up?? He's a multi, multi, multi millionaire.....he can afford it. Plus I read he is being paid half his salary before camp even opens.

He was paid 1/4th on July 1 ($8,250,984).
Will be paid 1/4th on October 1 ($8,250,984).
The rest will be divided into 12 installments of $1,375,164, paid every two weeks of the regular season.

[Nick K]

Does anyone actually think a fine is going to motivate Simmons to show up?? He's a multi, multi, multi millionaire.....he can afford it. Plus I read he is being paid half his salary before camp even opens.

He was paid 1/4th on July 1 ($8,250,984).
Will be paid 1/4th on October 1 ($8,250,984).
The rest will be divided into 12 installments of $1,375,164, paid every two weeks of the regular season.

Thanks. Sweet deal for Ben eh?

[shrink]

The other historical piece that gets thrown out by the people making big offers:

1. How often does a team trading a star get back full value?

2. How often does a team trading a star .. that has demanded a trade .. get back full value?

Forget how you feel about Ben Simmons’ name. Remove it, and make an offer for a generic “star.”

[shrink]

He was paid 1/4th on July 1 ($8,250,984).
Will be paid 1/4th on October 1 ($8,250,984).
The rest will be divided into 12 installments of $1,375,164, paid every two weeks of the regular season.

Thanks. Sweet deal for Ben eh?

Yeah, stars have the clout to ask for some of their money up front.

I heard a story that LeBron is one of the few that gets 50% of his salary ahead of time. In fact, when everyone took a pay cut during the Covid season, he actually had to write a check back to the owner, midseason, because he wasn’t going to make as much as he had already been paid!

[Wolveswin]

I have mentioned before punting on Simmons and looking at someone else via all-in-win-now trade. Isaac for one. Who else is out there?

Re: Isaac, he would need to prove healthy. He would still come with injury risk even if back playing games. Magic also match up better with what Wolves have to offer (picks, youth and expiring filler) as a team that doesn’t have a Embiid and is in rebuild mode.

Which roster is better?

A) (also minus multiple 1sts)!
Towns
Simmons
Prince (no McDaniels, needed for Simmons)
Edwards
Russell

B) (also minis multiple 1sts, but less required than Simmons trade)!
Towns
‘Healthy’ Isaac
McDaniels (withheld in Isaac trade)
Edwards (trade possible Beasley retained too?)
Russell

[jpatrick]

The other historical piece that gets thrown out by the people making big offers:

1. How often does a team trading a star get back full value?

2. How often does a team trading a star .. that has demanded a trade .. get back full value?

Forget how you feel about Ben Simmons’ name. Remove it, and make an offer for a generic “star.”

The answer is never because 4 quarters doesn’t equal a full dollar in terms of NBA trades.

But you look at AD, Paul George, Harden, and even Jrue Holiday, those were heavy draft pick deals, which would be similar to our offer. AD, PG, and Harden also had young players better than what we’re giving up.

The counter to ask is how often do players in this situation have four years left on their contract and cannot just walk.

I get what Morey is trying to do. He doesn’t want to make trade equivalent to our Jimmy Butler or the Spurs Leonard deal. Both tried to get mediocre win-now pieces instead of either getting a star or rookie scale/picks back and both set their franchises back. But I think an offer of Beasley, Bev, McDaniels, and a couple picks is a win-win in that we get Simmons and Philly gets win-now pieces and capital to get a star when one becomes available. Either that offer is not on the table or Morey disagrees with me.