The Tim Connelly Thread (prev./still Fire Him)

[Baseline81]

I'm interested to know people's thoughts on the biggest asset we gave up in the Gobert trade. Any feedback is appreciated.
1st round picks? (Mid to late)
Kessler?
Vanderbilt?

Try to keep up as it's been explained many, many times -- flexibility. The Wolves cannot trade a first round pick for several years. If you want to get technical, it can be done, but only on draft nights, meaning the team would have to make the selection before moving the player.

Every other year, Minnesota is hamstrung to second round picks and players as its means to upgrade.

EDIT: If the Wolves did not trade for Gobert, and Towns suffered the same injury, that pick would not have been in the middle of the first round.

[cmoss84]

Flexible is a pretty loose term. We just got a mid 1st rounder for dirt cheap. Flexibility is also not needed when making under the radar moves. SloMo. Conley and NAW. NAZ. molding a team is molding a team. This is nearly a finished product. I'll trade that all day for not having flexibility in trading future draft picks

[younggunsmn]

I'm interested to know people's thoughts on the biggest asset we gave up in the Gobert trade. Any feedback is appreciated.
1st round picks? (Mid to late)
Kessler?
Vanderbilt?

Try to keep up as it's been explained many, many times -- flexibility. The Wolves cannot trade a first round pick for several years. If you want to get technical, it can be done, but only on draft nights, meaning the team would have to make the selection before moving the player.

Every other year, Minnesota is hamstrung to second round picks and players as its means to upgrade.

EDIT: If the Wolves did not trade for Gobert, and Towns suffered the same injury, that pick would not have been in the middle of the first round.

I agree. Opportunity cost of not being able to trade future picks until 2031 is #1.
For me,
Kessler is #2.
Financial limitations due to Gobert's contract #3 (Likely No MLE this year for example).
The 27 and 29 picks tied for 4th, but could rise higher if we are bad.
25 pick is 6th
23 pick is 7th
Vanderbilt is 8th
Beasley 9th
Beverly 10th

I don't think we'd be picking higher than 12th with Towns injury and without the Gobert trade.
I'm >50% we would have still made the playoffs. Certain if we had traded for Conley earlier.

[Baseline81]

Flexible is a pretty loose term. We just got a mid 1st rounder for dirt cheap. Flexibility is also not needed when making under the radar moves. SloMo. Conley and NAW. NAZ. molding a team is molding a team. This is nearly a finished product. I'll trade that all day for not having flexibility in trading future draft picks

No, Minnesota didn't. Just because several draft sites listed Miller as such doesn't make it true. Now, it may turn out that he should have been taken higher, but, in the end, he was a second round pick.

Finished product? The team was involved in the play-in games and bounced in the first round...

[Slim Tubby]

Flexible is a pretty loose term. We just got a mid 1st rounder for dirt cheap. Flexibility is also not needed when making under the radar moves. SloMo. Conley and NAW. NAZ. molding a team is molding a team. This is nearly a finished product. I'll trade that all day for not having flexibility in trading future draft picks

Essentially, Connelly has already recouped the 2023 pick by managing to snag Miller, too. Now the Gobert trade is basically down to Kessler and three (3) picks most likely in the 20's. Throw in grabbing Conley, NAW and three (3) SRP's for Russell and I'd say things are starting to even out.

I'd rather have a GM that swings and misses rather than one that never takes the bat off of his shoulder. He just needs to make contact more often than miss to be deemed successful.

[younggunsmn]

double post.

[Note30]

You're heavily overvaluing Gobert. He's gonna get exposed in any switching matchup. Like almost every playoff series I've seen him play.

He also is an offensive liability unless our plan is to just park Towns in the corner and have him shoot 3's and then run P&R with Gobert.

From last July.
Prophecy.

Yeah still waiting to see this top 10 offensive player we got in Gobert lol.

[Note30]

Flexible is a pretty loose term. We just got a mid 1st rounder for dirt cheap. Flexibility is also not needed when making under the radar moves. SloMo. Conley and NAW. NAZ. molding a team is molding a team. This is nearly a finished product. I'll trade that all day for not having flexibility in trading future draft picks

Essentially, Connelly has already recouped the 2023 pick by managing to snag Miller, too. Now the Gobert trade is basically down to Kessler and three (3) picks most likely in the 20's. Throw in grabbing Conley, NAW and three (3) SRP's for Russell and I'd say things are starting to even out.

I'd rather have a GM that swings and misses rather than one that never takes the bat off of his shoulder. He just needs to make contact more often than miss to be deemed successful.

I agree that TC recouped some value via the Conley trade and outside of the Gobert trade he's done pretty well. But saying that he made up for it isn't true because he could have still done those moves without that trade.

Let's not about this whole he recouped the pick. We picked #33 while giving up future second round picks. We did good, but it was still a second round pick, and we still could have made that trade had we not done the Gobert trade.

Our actual pick that we traded was Keyonte George at #16. That's who we missed out on. I don't think we would have picked Leonard Miller at #16. We would/could have still had Miller at #33 because we could have still made that trade.

[Slim Tubby]

Flexible is a pretty loose term. We just got a mid 1st rounder for dirt cheap. Flexibility is also not needed when making under the radar moves. SloMo. Conley and NAW. NAZ. molding a team is molding a team. This is nearly a finished product. I'll trade that all day for not having flexibility in trading future draft picks

Essentially, Connelly has already recouped the 2023 pick by managing to snag Miller, too. Now the Gobert trade is basically down to Kessler and three (3) picks most likely in the 20's. Throw in grabbing Conley, NAW and three (3) SRP's for Russell and I'd say things are starting to even out.

I'd rather have a GM that swings and misses rather than one that never takes the bat off of his shoulder. He just needs to make contact more often than miss to be deemed successful.

I agree that TC recouped some value via the Conley trade and outside of the Gobert trade he's done pretty well. But saying that he made up for it isn't true because he could have still done those moves without that trade.

Let's not about this whole he recouped the pick. We picked #33 while giving up future second round picks. We did good, but it was still a second round pick, and we still could have made that trade had we not done the Gobert trade.

Our actual pick that we traded was Keyonte George at #16. That's who we missed out on. I don't think we would have picked Leonard Miller at #16. We would/could have still had Miller at #33 because we could have still made that trade.

We also have no clue yet how the Gobert-KAT tandem will eventually pan out. Not you. Not me. Not anyone.

You have your way of looking at this. I have my own. I'm happy overall with Connelly as our GM and expect him to do good things with this roster moving forward.

[Note30]

Essentially, Connelly has already recouped the 2023 pick by managing to snag Miller, too. Now the Gobert trade is basically down to Kessler and three (3) picks most likely in the 20's. Throw in grabbing Conley, NAW and three (3) SRP's for Russell and I'd say things are starting to even out.

I'd rather have a GM that swings and misses rather than one that never takes the bat off of his shoulder. He just needs to make contact more often than miss to be deemed successful.

I agree that TC recouped some value via the Conley trade and outside of the Gobert trade he's done pretty well. But saying that he made up for it isn't true because he could have still done those moves without that trade.

Let's not about this whole he recouped the pick. We picked #33 while giving up future second round picks. We did good, but it was still a second round pick, and we still could have made that trade had we not done the Gobert trade.

Our actual pick that we traded was Keyonte George at #16. That's who we missed out on. I don't think we would have picked Leonard Miller at #16. We would/could have still had Miller at #33 because we could have still made that trade.

We also have no clue yet how the Gobert-KAT tandem will eventually pan out. Not you. Not me. Not anyone.

You have your way of looking at this. I have my own. I'm happy overall with Connelly as our GM and expect him to do good things with this roster moving forward.

Sure, absolutely, I hope he turns it all around. Still has little to do with my point.

[SO_MONEY]

Essentially, Connelly has already recouped the 2023 pick by managing to snag Miller, too. Now the Gobert trade is basically down to Kessler and three (3) picks most likely in the 20's. Throw in grabbing Conley, NAW and three (3) SRP's for Russell and I'd say things are starting to even out.

I'd rather have a GM that swings and misses rather than one that never takes the bat off of his shoulder. He just needs to make contact more often than miss to be deemed successful.

I agree that TC recouped some value via the Conley trade and outside of the Gobert trade he's done pretty well. But saying that he made up for it isn't true because he could have still done those moves without that trade.

Let's not about this whole he recouped the pick. We picked #33 while giving up future second round picks. We did good, but it was still a second round pick, and we still could have made that trade had we not done the Gobert trade.

Our actual pick that we traded was Keyonte George at #16. That's who we missed out on. I don't think we would have picked Leonard Miller at #16. We would/could have still had Miller at #33 because we could have still made that trade.

We also have no clue yet how the Gobert-KAT tandem will eventually pan out. Not you. Not me. Not anyone.

You have your way of looking at this. I have my own. I'm happy overall with Connelly as our GM and expect him to do good things with this roster moving forward.

Respectfully, the people who say that we don't know how KAT and Rudy will pan out or are not in the least concerned are willing to overlook what happened last year. People can carry all the hope they want, it doesn't undo that it is only hope. The people who say they have seen enough are at least basing it on an observation; they have a clue. Maybe the people with blind faith turn out to be right, anything is possible, so you are right in sentiment that no one knows, but if you are wrong... then it is too late.

[shrink]

We also have no clue yet how the Gobert-KAT tandem will eventually pan out. Not you. Not me. Not anyone.

You have your way of looking at this. I have my own. I'm happy overall with Connelly as our GM and expect him to do good things with this roster moving forward.

Respectfully, the people who say that we don't know how KAT and Rudy will pan out or are not in the least concerned are willing to overlook what happened last year. People can carry all the hope they want, it doesn't undo that it is only hope. The people who say they have seen enough are at least basing it on an observation; they have a clue. Maybe the people with blind faith turn out to be right, anything is possible, so you are right in sentiment that no one knows, but if you are wrong... then it is too late.

Well, one observation about last year is that despite some of the worse circumstances, like the bulk of the Rudy-KAT minutes coming in the first 20 games, when Gobert was beat up and KAT was coming from a hospitalization, that pair STILL had a positive Net Rating.

Another observation is that Connelly has still called it an experiment, and Finch has shown he knows how to work with two bigs, and has intimated that this is a big off-season for the pairing.

I think there are observations that can lead to optimism, optimism that some people flat out reject. I don’t know if it’s going to work, but I certainly am not at a point that I can say it won’t.

[Baseline81]

Well, one observation about last year is that despite some of the worse circumstances, like the bulk of the Rudy-KAT minutes coming in the first 20 games, when Gobert was beat up and KAT was coming from a hospitalization, that pair STILL had a positive Net Rating.

Another observation is that Connelly has still called it an experiment, and Finch has shown he knows how to work with two bigs, and has intimated that this is a big off-season for the pairing.

I think there are observations that can lead to optimism, optimism that some people flat out reject. I don’t know if it’s going to work, but I certainly am not at a point that I can say it won’t.

But KGdaBom said it isn't an experiment?

[SO_MONEY]

We also have no clue yet how the Gobert-KAT tandem will eventually pan out. Not you. Not me. Not anyone.

You have your way of looking at this. I have my own. I'm happy overall with Connelly as our GM and expect him to do good things with this roster moving forward.

Respectfully, the people who say that we don't know how KAT and Rudy will pan out or are not in the least concerned are willing to overlook what happened last year. People can carry all the hope they want, it doesn't undo that it is only hope. The people who say they have seen enough are at least basing it on an observation; they have a clue. Maybe the people with blind faith turn out to be right, anything is possible, so you are right in sentiment that no one knows, but if you are wrong... then it is too late.

Well, one observation about last year is that despite some of the worse circumstances, like the bulk of the Rudy-KAT minutes coming in the first 20 games, when Gobert was beat up and KAT was coming from a hospitalization, that pair STILL had a positive Net Rating.

Another observation is that Connelly has still called it an experiment, and Finch has shown he knows how to work with two bigs, and has intimated that this is a big off-season for the pairing.

I think there are observations that can lead to optimism, optimism that some people flat out reject. I don’t know if it’s going to work, but I certainly am not at a point that I can say it won’t.

It didn't translate to wins shinks. When you make posts like this it infers I don't want to win, that I am incapable of analysis. I have never said it can't work, I say it is unlikely to work based on what we have seen. Now you can point to all the stats in the world pro and con, what matters is wins. Observationally the team looks better with Reid and Gobert than it does with KAT and Gobert, now there are stats that say that is not true, but I am not the only one that sees the difference, it has been noticed, moreover W&Ls showed a slim difference in the positive. You can have all the optimism in the world, the reality is it is a show me league and they haven't showed anything to make you think this is going to work. Nothing you say can undo the results of the past. You could be right maybe it works out, in a vacuum we both could be right, meaning no matter what path you take it could result in failure or success... but I have seen enough to make my call.

[shrink]

Respectfully, the people who say that we don't know how KAT and Rudy will pan out or are not in the least concerned are willing to overlook what happened last year. People can carry all the hope they want, it doesn't undo that it is only hope. The people who say they have seen enough are at least basing it on an observation; they have a clue. Maybe the people with blind faith turn out to be right, anything is possible, so you are right in sentiment that no one knows, but if you are wrong... then it is too late.

Well, one observation about last year is that despite some of the worse circumstances, like the bulk of the Rudy-KAT minutes coming in the first 20 games, when Gobert was beat up and KAT was coming from a hospitalization, that pair STILL had a positive Net Rating.

Another observation is that Connelly has still called it an experiment, and Finch has shown he knows how to work with two bigs, and has intimated that this is a big off-season for the pairing.

I think there are observations that can lead to optimism, optimism that some people flat out reject. I don’t know if it’s going to work, but I certainly am not at a point that I can say it won’t.

It didn't translate to wins shinks. When you make posts like this it infers I don't want to win, that I am incapable of analysis. I have never said it can't work, I say it is unlikely to work based on what we have seen. Now you can point to all the stats in the world pro and con, what matters is wins. Observationally the team looks better with Reid and Gobert than it does with KAT and Gobert, now there are stats that say that is not true, but I am not the only one that sees the difference, it has been noticed, moreover W&Ls showed a slim difference in the positive. You can have all the optimism in the world, the reality is it is a show me league and they haven't showed anything to make you think this is going to work. Nothing you say can undo the results of the past. You could be right maybe it works out, in a vacuum we both could be right, meaning no matter what path you take it could result in failure or success... but I have seen enough to make my call.

When the Net Rtg for Towns-Gobert is 0.6, and the Net Rating for Naz-Gobert is -12.6, and you say “the team looked better with Reid and Gobert than KAT and Gobert,” I find it difficult to trust your observations. Moreover, when your observations are so dissimilar from the actual evidence, you should try to determine why your observations are so far off, and whether you are injecting personal bias into what you see. Especially if you are taking the position “I have evidence and those that disagree don’t have evidence, just faith.”

And if you were really implying you were talking about Wins, you are talking about an extremely small sample. Remember, the bulk of the KAT-Rudy minutes came at the start of the season (20 games, .500), with just 6 games together at the end (4-2, I believe). Wins are a team endeavor, and at the start of the season, neither DLo or Ant could feed Rudy, plus both Rudy and Towns were coming into the season weak. They Wolves still played .500, even if it felt like they should have done better. That is not the situation that the Wolves will face next year, with Conley, a more experienced Ant, and a healthier KAT and Rudy.

In the end, we both end up in the same place though. We need to see more to make the call. Game 1 can’t come soon enough for me!

[SO_MONEY]

Well, one observation about last year is that despite some of the worse circumstances, like the bulk of the Rudy-KAT minutes coming in the first 20 games, when Gobert was beat up and KAT was coming from a hospitalization, that pair STILL had a positive Net Rating.

Another observation is that Connelly has still called it an experiment, and Finch has shown he knows how to work with two bigs, and has intimated that this is a big off-season for the pairing.

I think there are observations that can lead to optimism, optimism that some people flat out reject. I don’t know if it’s going to work, but I certainly am not at a point that I can say it won’t.

It didn't translate to wins shinks. When you make posts like this it infers I don't want to win, that I am incapable of analysis. I have never said it can't work, I say it is unlikely to work based on what we have seen. Now you can point to all the stats in the world pro and con, what matters is wins. Observationally the team looks better with Reid and Gobert than it does with KAT and Gobert, now there are stats that say that is not true, but I am not the only one that sees the difference, it has been noticed, moreover W&Ls showed a slim difference in the positive. You can have all the optimism in the world, the reality is it is a show me league and they haven't showed anything to make you think this is going to work. Nothing you say can undo the results of the past. You could be right maybe it works out, in a vacuum we both could be right, meaning no matter what path you take it could result in failure or success... but I have seen enough to make my call.

When the Net Rtg for Towns-Gobert is 0.6, and the Net Rating for Naz-Gobert is -12.6, and you say “the team looked better with Reid and Gobert than KAT and Gobert,” I find it difficult to trust your observations. Moreover, when your observations are so dissimilar from the actual evidence, you should try to determine why your observations are so far off, and whether you are injecting personal bias into what you see. Especially if you are taking the position “I have evidence and those that disagree don’t have evidence, just faith.”

And if you were really implying you were talking about Wins, you are talking about an extremely small sample. Remember, the bulk of the KAT-Rudy minutes came at the start of the season (20 games, .500), with just 6 games together at the end (4-2, I believe). Wins are a team endeavor, and at the start of the season, neither DLo or Ant could feed Rudy, plus both Rudy and Towns were coming into the season weak. They Wolves still played .500, even if it felt like they should have done better. That is not the situation that the Wolves will face next year, with Conley, a more experienced Ant, and a healthier KAT and Rudy.

In the end, we both end up in the same place though. We need to see more to make the call. Game 1 can’t come soon enough for me!

Shrink it is not just me who has seen it, hell it was in an article about the signing from one of the two major papers. It is fine if you disagree with me, but you are also in disagreement with people's who's job it is to cover the team or sports in general. I agree with them you don't.

[frankenwolf]

TC - so far, so good.

At the end of the Memphis playoff series, what two things were identified as areas the Timberwolves needed to be better in? Rebounding and a rim presence on defense. They then went out and got the one available player they were sure could help out on both of those points: Rudy Gobert. Great get. Maybe they overpaid, maybe they didn't and I am not going to base that on what happened in one season, since one of the keys missed 63% of the season.

There has been discussion for years about whether KAT should play PF and get a banger of a center to play against Embiid, Gobert, and other "large" centers. The Wolves went out, got Gobert to bang with Embiid and give KAT a chance to play PF. This "Experiment" is still in the trial phase. Yes, there may be a Cap problem down the road, but that is down the road. Let's see how this will play out with healthy players playing together for more than 30% of the season (less if you include MC time with the Wolves).

I would hate to think we would have gotten rid off Ant after 30 games. . .

[Baseline81]

TC - so far, so good.

At the end of the Memphis playoff series, what two things were identified as areas the Timberwolves needed to be better in? Rebounding and a rim presence on defense. They then went out and got the one available player they were sure could help out on both of those points: Rudy Gobert. Great get. Maybe they overpaid, maybe they didn't and I am not going to base that on what happened in one season, since one of the keys missed 63% of the season.

There has been discussion for years about whether KAT should play PF and get a banger of a center to play against Embiid, Gobert, and other "large" centers. The Wolves went out, got Gobert to bang with Embiid and give KAT a chance to play PF. This "Experiment" is still in the trial phase. Yes, there may be a Cap problem down the road, but that is down the road. Let's see how this will play out with healthy players playing together for more than 30% of the season (less if you include MC time with the Wolves).

I would hate to think we would have gotten rid off Ant after 30 games. . .

[gandlogo]

TC - so far, so good.

At the end of the Memphis playoff series, what two things were identified as areas the Timberwolves needed to be better in? Rebounding and a rim presence on defense. They then went out and got the one available player they were sure could help out on both of those points: Rudy Gobert. Great get. Maybe they overpaid, maybe they didn't and I am not going to base that on what happened in one season, since one of the keys missed 63% of the season.

There has been discussion for years about whether KAT should play PF and get a banger of a center to play against Embiid, Gobert, and other "large" centers. The Wolves went out, got Gobert to bang with Embiid and give KAT a chance to play PF. This "Experiment" is still in the trial phase. Yes, there may be a Cap problem down the road, but that is down the road. Let's see how this will play out with healthy players playing together for more than 30% of the season (less if you include MC time with the Wolves).

I think this is off base on a few things. Memphis beat the Wolves by going small - Brooks on Towns, Adams on the bench, a six-foot tall 200 pound T-Rex armed PF that my dead mother could box out (and somebody that Golden State had no problem neutralizing in the following series with their small ball lineup) out hustling the Wolves on the boards. Bane and Tyus (yes, Tyus) hitting threes and Ja getting favorable calls by flopping on takes is what beat the Wolves (and horrible guard play). Go back and look at the box scores - Adams started Game 1 - Wolves cruise to a win. Memphis goes small and he played seven minutes the rest of the series.

Further, Gobert seldom guards and bangs the likes of Embid and Jokic - because they are too mobile. And Towns can't guard forwards or my aforementioned dead mother on the perimeter. The Wolves now have a billion dollars sunk in two plodders playing a position that the rest of the league (and the game) has abandoned. The Wolves overreacted and overpaid - a killer combo.

[Biff Cooper]

It is going to be interesting to see if the ownership team stands behind their all-in Gobert move to be willing to go into the luxury tax, or if Connelly is going to have to let players like Prince, Slo-Mo, and Conley leave in order to sign Ant and Jaden.

Are those the only options? They wouldn't kick in this year anyway right?

Well - we may see this year if they are willing to go into the lux zone by keeping Naz, keeping NAW, keeping Prince, (keeping JMac and Knight), and still using our taxpayer MLE to sign as good of a player as we can.