2023-24 preseason

[shrink]

I agree, and I’m thinking more about December, when we might have some matching salary.

Branch Ricky once said, “Trade a player a year too early, not a year too late.” That makes me wonder if Minott and Garza (and filler) (traded too early) would bring back Suggs (traded too late)?

Finally, it wouldn’t hurt icy Minnesota’s reputation if players saw that the organization was willing to trade players to teams that could further their career, rather than keep them locked away where it would take other players’ injuries for them to advance.

[Biff Cooper]

Our non-rotation bigs are just too good to be stuck here in low minute situations!

We bench our top 11 rotation players against the Israeli team and still score 138 points!

30 from Garza! Minott with 23/6/6/3 BLKS. Leonard Miller with 23 and 15 boards!

I think they each could be decent bigs on some of the other teams, and Naz could start on a few. Their trade value decreases every day that passes that we don’t trade some of them to a better situation, and create roster minutes for younger (and cheaper) guys.

I wonder if Garza had any full offers last offseason? It is a little strange that he is back here on a 2-way deal. He must like being here, and the basketball growth that he has made as part of the Timberwolves program. He has definitely improved since he got here, so maybe he figures if he can keep in the program another year, it will give him the best chance to have a long NBA career?

[KGdaBom]

Our non-rotation bigs are just too good to be stuck here in low minute situations!

We bench our top 11 rotation players against the Israeli team and still score 138 points!

30 from Garza! Minott with 23/6/6/3 BLKS. Leonard Miller with 23 and 15 boards!

I think they each could be decent bigs on some of the other teams, and Naz could start on a few. Their trade value decreases every day that passes that we don’t trade some of them to a better situation, and create roster minutes for younger (and cheaper) guys.

I understand why you feel the way you do, but I just think you're not used to following a winning franchise. Depth players serve valuable roles on good teams beyond just being trade chips. This is what happens.

You don't trade the youth away. This is how you manage the cap hell, it frees up the possibility to split up a Kyle Anderson into different pieces because you have a Leonard Miller waiting in the wings. You don't have to sign another $9M power forward. Minott will be next man up as the wings sort themselves out over the next few years too.

First off, pump the brakes a bit on the hype train, they were playing "39 minutes of Ashton Hagans" level competition.

2nd, the whole purpose of late 1st and 2nd round picks is to have incredibly cheap depth.
If these guys outperform that and can sneak quality rotation minutes, that's just a bonus.

It would be incredibly dumb to trade them off for more 2nd round picks, where you have a what, one in 3 or 4 chance of drafting and developing another Minott or Garza where you again waste a roster spot for 2 or 3 years developing them until they are ready for minutes in games that count?

No, you enjoy the fruits of your hard work with your minimum contract contributor or key injury insurance policy who now knows your system in and out after 3 or 4 years.
That's the exact gameplan teams like the Spurs and Heat have followed and why they seem to keep kicking out a seemingly neverending line of 2nd round pick or rookie free agent surprises.

If you can parlay them into a decent 1st round pick or aggregate into a bigger piece to the puzzle, I'm all for it.
But with the Timberwolf Train headed into Cap Hell Tunnel for the next 2-3 years, having dirt cheap depth that's been in our system for a couple of years is much more valuable, especially with multiple years of team control.

Holding onto Naz at the trade deadline was the smartest move the team made last year, along with the Anderson signing.

Post of the month.

[wolves_89]

Our non-rotation bigs are just too good to be stuck here in low minute situations!

We bench our top 11 rotation players against the Israeli team and still score 138 points!

30 from Garza! Minott with 23/6/6/3 BLKS. Leonard Miller with 23 and 15 boards!

I think they each could be decent bigs on some of the other teams, and Naz could start on a few. Their trade value decreases every day that passes that we don’t trade some of them to a better situation, and create roster minutes for younger (and cheaper) guys.

I wonder if Garza had any full offers last offseason? It is a little strange that he is back here on a 2-way deal. He must like being here, and the basketball growth that he has made as part of the Timberwolves program. He has definitely improved since he got here, so maybe he figures if he can keep in the program another year, it will give him the best chance to have a long NBA career?

I can't imagine that Garza would have passed on signing a regular contract if he had the option. He was a restricted free agent, so without a regular contract offer from someone he was pretty much forced to come back to the Wolves on a two-way deal.

[Biff Cooper]

I can't imagine that Garza would have passed on signing a regular contract if he had the option. He was a restricted free agent, so without a regular contract offer from someone he was pretty much forced to come back to the Wolves on a two-way deal.

Agree, but he signed the 2-way deal fairly early in the off-season. I would have expected him to wait longer to see if a roster spot shook loose somewhere.

[Klomp]

I can't imagine that Garza would have passed on signing a regular contract if he had the option. He was a restricted free agent, so without a regular contract offer from someone he was pretty much forced to come back to the Wolves on a two-way deal.

Agree, but he signed the 2-way deal fairly early in the off-season. I would have expected him to wait longer to see if a roster spot shook loose somewhere.

Local legend in Iowa, and I think that despite being "just" a two-way, I think he feels valued here by Finch, coaching staff and front office. That stuff matters too!

[Klomp]

2. Yes, it’s a nice luxury to have seven bigs, in case 3 get hurt. But that is not an effective way to use assets. These players are more valuable to other teams - there should be a price where we, and our trade partner, both improve if they can use them more than us.

3. I love all our guys, and I’m not sure who would be the most likely to be traded, but it looks to me like Minott and Miller need pathways to minutes to develop. Both already had a year of JV

2. NBA rosters are 18 deep now, and the talent goes deeper than ever. This isn't like we have our depth guys and other NBA teams have pure garbage. And it's especially important when your top-end talent is older and expensive.
3. They may have had a year of JV technically, but Connelly has also talked about going in a year early on guys in this market because we are not a prime free agent destination. That might mean that guys need an extra year of development before squeezing them in the depth chart or discarding them.

[shrink]

2. Yes, it’s a nice luxury to have seven bigs, in case 3 get hurt. But that is not an effective way to use assets. These players are more valuable to other teams - there should be a price where we, and our trade partner, both improve if they can use them more than us.

3. I love all our guys, and I’m not sure who would be the most likely to be traded, but it looks to me like Minott and Miller need pathways to minutes to develop. Both already had a year of JV

2. NBA rosters are 18 deep now, and the talent goes deeper than ever. This isn't like we have our depth guys and other NBA teams have pure garbage. And it's especially important when your top-end talent is older and expensive.
3. They may have had a year of JV technically, but Connelly has also talked about going in a year early on guys in this market because we are not a prime free agent destination. That might mean that guys need an extra year of development before squeezing them in the depth chart or discarding them.

2. Rosters could go 100 deep, and it would still come down to whether your team can fill 240 minutes each game with better players.

3. From what you’ve seen, you don’t think both are ready for minor nba roles? Minott sounds like he is looking for one this season, saying he spent a year focusing on all the sets Finch told him to learn.

[Klomp]

3. From what you’ve seen, you don’t think both are ready for minor nba roles? Minott sounds like he is looking for one this season, saying he spent a year focusing on all the sets Finch told him to learn.

Could he on the Spurs? Could he on the Hornets? Absolutely. Does that mean he should here in Minnesota? No. Does that mean we need to trade him? Also no, in my opinion.

[KGdaBom]

To me the lack of respect we are getting is mind blowing. Predictions of top 8 in the west by several sports writers on NBA.Com
https://www.nba.com/news/trending-topics-nba-standings-west-predictions

[Klomp]

2. Yes, it’s a nice luxury to have seven bigs, in case 3 get hurt. But that is not an effective way to use assets. These players are more valuable to other teams - there should be a price where we, and our trade partner, both improve if they can use them more than us.

Another point worth considering...

It may seem like they are asset hoarding at the moment, but this is an important piece for a team that lacks a pile of draft assets in the next 5-7 years. It's less about what they do for the team today, but more what they can do over the next 2-3 years.

[thinktank]

I agree, and I’m thinking more about December, when we might have some matching salary.

Branch Ricky once said, “Trade a player a year too early, not a year too late.” That makes me wonder if Minott and Garza (and filler) (traded too early) would bring back Suggs (traded too late)?

Finally, it wouldn’t hurt icy Minnesota’s reputation if players saw that the organization was willing to trade players to teams that could further their career, rather than keep them locked away where it would take other players’ injuries for them to advance.

But why do that deal?

Garza looks like a pure scoring big man. That’s great to have.

Minott looking like he can pass it some? Teardrop?

Suggs is a project too. We have Clark who appears to be a defender.

[shrink]

I agree, and I’m thinking more about December, when we might have some matching salary.

Branch Ricky once said, “Trade a player a year too early, not a year too late.” That makes me wonder if Minott and Garza (and filler) (traded too early) would bring back Suggs (traded too late)?

Finally, it wouldn’t hurt icy Minnesota’s reputation if players saw that the organization was willing to trade players to teams that could further their career, rather than keep them locked away where it would take other players’ injuries for them to advance.

But why do that deal?

Garza looks like a pure scoring big man. That’s great to have.

Minott looking like he can pass it some? Teardrop?

Suggs is a project too. We have Clark who appears to be a defender.

How many points will Garza score for Minnesota with no minutes?

How many passes will Minott make if he’s firmly planted on the bench?

I agree those guys have those qualities, but they won’t have nearly the chance to produce in Minnesota, buried behind four substantially better, win-now bigs, versus some other teams where they would actually get playing time because they would be on the edge of another team’s rotation. That makes them more valuable to them than to us, and potential trade commodities.

I see Ant, KAT, Gobert, McDaniels, Conley, Naz or SloMo as more valuable to us, our continuity, and our desire to win now.

As for Suggs specifically, I just wanted to use him as an example. I don’t have the time to research him. But off the top of my head, he does have some qualities I like. Namely, some experience to help now (Clark is two years away), young, not expensive (yet!), on a PG-laden team, and with local ties. But some other young (2nd or third year) PG could work, and have Clark coming up behind later.

[thinktank]

I agree, and I’m thinking more about December, when we might have some matching salary.

Branch Ricky once said, “Trade a player a year too early, not a year too late.” That makes me wonder if Minott and Garza (and filler) (traded too early) would bring back Suggs (traded too late)?

Finally, it wouldn’t hurt icy Minnesota’s reputation if players saw that the organization was willing to trade players to teams that could further their career, rather than keep them locked away where it would take other players’ injuries for them to advance.

But why do that deal?

Garza looks like a pure scoring big man. That’s great to have.

Minott looking like he can pass it some? Teardrop?

Suggs is a project too. We have Clark who appears to be a defender.

How many points will Garza score for Minnesota with no minutes?

How many passes will Minott make if he’s firmly planted on the bench?

I agree those guys have those qualities, but they won’t have nearly the chance to produce in Minnesota, buried behind four substantially better, win-now bigs, versus some other teams where they would actually get playing time because they would be on the edge of another team’s rotation. That makes them more valuable to them than to us, and potential trade commodities.

I see Ant, KAT, Gobert, McDaniels, Conley, Naz or SloMo as more valuable to us, our continuity, and our desire to win now.

As for Suggs specifically, I just wanted to use him as an example. I don’t have the time to research him. But off the top of my head, he does have some qualities I like. Namely, some experience to help now (Clark is two years away), young, not expensive (yet!), on a PG-laden team, and with local ties. But some other young (2nd or third year) PG could work, and have Clark coming up behind later.

1. Injuries
2. They’re all still young.

[minimus]

Today is the last preseason game. Some early observations:

- this team emphases pace and space. It has been seen in Towns aggressiveness in shooting threes and attacking closeouts.
- they dont try involve Gobert directly, but when ball movement is initiated Gobert is much more useful with his roll gravity, screening
- Reid plays bunch minutes alongside of Gobert and Towns.
- I feel like even without big Conley minutes on the floor our roster is much more balanced with Reid, Anderson, NAW, Milton, Brown and McLaughlin. I love to see McLaughlin playing mistake free basketball, but also I am impressed with Milton scoring ability (not so much passing) and Brown ballhandling, shooting and passing. Hopefully we have some depth this season
- Minott and Miller look raw as hell, still making rookie mistakes. Minott must improve his three point shot, because he is more slashing, rim running big right now, while Miller looks more like a big wing
- while fans expect this team to be make a huge leap by doing mething at elite level, but I have a feeling that this team will "just" make bunch of those small, almost evident improvements that will propel to big success. For instance, be at least positive at defensive and offensive rebounding, believe in success, dont commit stupid fouls, dont argue with referees, dont punch teammates and walls etc

[Saltine]

To me the lack of respect we are getting is mind blowing. Predictions of top 8 in the west by several sports writers on NBA.Com
https://www.nba.com/news/trending-topics-nba-standings-west-predictions

Hollinger;
https://theathletic.com/4965360/2023/10/18/nba-win-totals-predictions-lakers-warriors-grizzlies-western-conference/

3 (tie). Minnesota Timberwolves (48-34)

It’s amazing yet true: One year after making one of the worst trades in NBA history, the Timberwolves are likely to be one of the league’s best teams.

While giving up Walker Kessler and five future firsts for the right to overpay Rudy Gobert through 2026 is an all-time stinker that will sting this franchise with a vengeance in the second half of the decade, they haven’t had to pay the piper yet.

Instead, this is the last year when everything is still fun: Anthony Edwards and Jaden McDaniels are each on the final year of their rookie deals, and Karl-Anthony Towns’ extension hasn’t kicked in yet. Minnesota was able to spend its exception money, re-sign Naz Reid and still keep a couple million in wiggle room below the luxury-tax line. That all changes a year from now, but the present looks good.

Partly, that’s because the front office did a tremendous job digging out from the Gobert disaster over the last 12 months. Trading for Mike Conley and Nickeil Alexander-Walker stabilized the backcourt at midseason, while offseason moves to add Troy Brown and Shake Milton further solidified the bench. (Smart alecks will note that removing Chris Finch’s ability to play Austin Rivers should also help.) The Gobert trade also overshadowed a genuinely sharp move to ink the vastly underrated Kyle Anderson for the midlevel exception, a huge value at that price. (He, alas, will be an unrestricted free agent after the season.)

Wolves president Tim Connelly also had an incredible draft record in Denver, so it will be interesting to see how some of his late-draft picks turn out in Minnesota. We didn’t see much last year: Wendell Moore was just a rumor, and Josh Minott was a raw one-and-done, but if those two and 2023 second-rounder Leonard Miller turn into real pieces, that makes the future a lot more palatable.

Of course, much of the reason for optimism is the emergence of Edwards, an elite athlete still figuring out how to use all his tools. This summer, the FIBA version of Anthony Edwards showed both the best and worst of his game — taking over as a go-to guy because of his ability to create a shot at a moment’s notice but finishing last on the team in true shooting because of his iffy ability to read the game and pursue high-percentage opportunities.

The other reason Minnesota started slowly last year was the poor frontcourt chemistry between Gobert and Towns, but they had seemed to work out many of the kinks by the time the playoffs started. It’s still an unnatural fit, with Towns shoehorned into a perimeter role on both ends of the floor and Gobert’s hands and finishing as a roll man having markedly declined from his peak in Utah. One still wonders if the best endgame for the Wolves is to move off Towns before his $216 million extension kicks in next year in exchange for somebody who is a better positional fit for this roster.

Again, other gremlins lurk just over the horizon. Conley, Anderson and McDaniels are all free agents after the season, and the team will end up deep in the luxury tax if it keeps more than one of them. Also, there are no draft picks left to trade to replenish things, let alone to acquire any other young players. Even the good news is bad: Edwards’ emergence may well result in an All-NBA selection … and change his extension to a supermax, which would push the Wolves further into the 2024-25 luxury tax. But those worries can wait until next summer.

I feel like I might be alone here in my Wolves optimism: Not one of the 30 execs in the league’s GM survey picked the Wolves in the top four in the West. (Pedantic side note: I’ve listed this finish as a tie, but technically, the Suns projected with three-tenths more wins than Minnesota.) However, the logic pencils out: This roster has a really strong top seven, with some interesting depth pieces mixed in, and the key players are more likely to play more games than those of the other teams in this range.

So, Minnesota fans, enjoy these last precious days of your brief Edwards-era summer before the harsh winter comes. The 2023-24 season should be a fun party, at least, especially if you ignore the Arctic blast of salary-cap reality that’s about to blow in.

[TimberKat]

To me the lack of respect we are getting is mind blowing. Predictions of top 8 in the west by several sports writers on NBA.Com
https://www.nba.com/news/trending-topics-nba-standings-west-predictions

Hollinger;
https://theathletic.com/4965360/2023/10/18/nba-win-totals-predictions-lakers-warriors-grizzlies-western-conference/

3 (tie). Minnesota Timberwolves (48-34)

It’s amazing yet true: One year after making one of the worst trades in NBA history, the Timberwolves are likely to be one of the league’s best teams.

While giving up Walker Kessler and five future firsts for the right to overpay Rudy Gobert through 2026 is an all-time stinker that will sting this franchise with a vengeance in the second half of the decade, they haven’t had to pay the piper yet.

Instead, this is the last year when everything is still fun: Anthony Edwards and Jaden McDaniels are each on the final year of their rookie deals, and Karl-Anthony Towns’ extension hasn’t kicked in yet. Minnesota was able to spend its exception money, re-sign Naz Reid and still keep a couple million in wiggle room below the luxury-tax line. That all changes a year from now, but the present looks good.

Partly, that’s because the front office did a tremendous job digging out from the Gobert disaster over the last 12 months. Trading for Mike Conley and Nickeil Alexander-Walker stabilized the backcourt at midseason, while offseason moves to add Troy Brown and Shake Milton further solidified the bench. (Smart alecks will note that removing Chris Finch’s ability to play Austin Rivers should also help.) The Gobert trade also overshadowed a genuinely sharp move to ink the vastly underrated Kyle Anderson for the midlevel exception, a huge value at that price. (He, alas, will be an unrestricted free agent after the season.)

Wolves president Tim Connelly also had an incredible draft record in Denver, so it will be interesting to see how some of his late-draft picks turn out in Minnesota. We didn’t see much last year: Wendell Moore was just a rumor, and Josh Minott was a raw one-and-done, but if those two and 2023 second-rounder Leonard Miller turn into real pieces, that makes the future a lot more palatable.

Of course, much of the reason for optimism is the emergence of Edwards, an elite athlete still figuring out how to use all his tools. This summer, the FIBA version of Anthony Edwards showed both the best and worst of his game — taking over as a go-to guy because of his ability to create a shot at a moment’s notice but finishing last on the team in true shooting because of his iffy ability to read the game and pursue high-percentage opportunities.

The other reason Minnesota started slowly last year was the poor frontcourt chemistry between Gobert and Towns, but they had seemed to work out many of the kinks by the time the playoffs started. It’s still an unnatural fit, with Towns shoehorned into a perimeter role on both ends of the floor and Gobert’s hands and finishing as a roll man having markedly declined from his peak in Utah. One still wonders if the best endgame for the Wolves is to move off Towns before his $216 million extension kicks in next year in exchange for somebody who is a better positional fit for this roster.

Again, other gremlins lurk just over the horizon. Conley, Anderson and McDaniels are all free agents after the season, and the team will end up deep in the luxury tax if it keeps more than one of them. Also, there are no draft picks left to trade to replenish things, let alone to acquire any other young players. Even the good news is bad: Edwards’ emergence may well result in an All-NBA selection … and change his extension to a supermax, which would push the Wolves further into the 2024-25 luxury tax. But those worries can wait until next summer.

I feel like I might be alone here in my Wolves optimism: Not one of the 30 execs in the league’s GM survey picked the Wolves in the top four in the West. (Pedantic side note: I’ve listed this finish as a tie, but technically, the Suns projected with three-tenths more wins than Minnesota.) However, the logic pencils out: This roster has a really strong top seven, with some interesting depth pieces mixed in, and the key players are more likely to play more games than those of the other teams in this range.

So, Minnesota fans, enjoy these last precious days of your brief Edwards-era summer before the harsh winter comes. The 2023-24 season should be a fun party, at least, especially if you ignore the Arctic blast of salary-cap reality that’s about to blow in.

Winter blues hit you early this year? I never seen such gloomy positive post. It does have a lot of good content. We can be anywhere from #3 to #11 this year. So, I am glad Wolves are taking pre season seriously and try to get off to a fast start (unlike the Vikings). Cloudy the future is but I am sure we will figure out a good way around the caps next summer as we had discussed some of those options before which include trading anyone as long as it improves the team. I am glad the cap tax is not like Ramsey county property tax where it keeps going up and we get double charged. At least we are keeping our top 7 or 8 players and you expect Minott or Miller to have a bench role in 2024 so that is not a bad start. You should worry more for Clippers, Suns and Nuggets

[twolves31]

I agree, and I’m thinking more about December, when we might have some matching salary.

Branch Ricky once said, “Trade a player a year too early, not a year too late.” That makes me wonder if Minott and Garza (and filler) (traded too early) would bring back Suggs (traded too late)?

Finally, it wouldn’t hurt icy Minnesota’s reputation if players saw that the organization was willing to trade players to teams that could further their career, rather than keep them locked away where it would take other players’ injuries for them to advance.

But why do that deal?

Garza looks like a pure scoring big man. That’s great to have.

Minott looking like he can pass it some? Teardrop?

Suggs is a project too. We have Clark who appears to be a defender.

How many points will Garza score for Minnesota with no minutes?

How many passes will Minott make if he’s firmly planted on the bench?

I agree those guys have those qualities, but they won’t have nearly the chance to produce in Minnesota, buried behind four substantially better, win-now bigs, versus some other teams where they would actually get playing time because they would be on the edge of another team’s rotation. That makes them more valuable to them than to us, and potential trade commodities.

I see Ant, KAT, Gobert, McDaniels, Conley, Naz or SloMo as more valuable to us, our continuity, and our desire to win now.

As for Suggs specifically, I just wanted to use him as an example. I don’t have the time to research him. But off the top of my head, he does have some qualities I like. Namely, some experience to help now (Clark is two years away), young, not expensive (yet!), on a PG-laden team, and with local ties. But some other young (2nd or third year) PG could work, and have Clark coming up behind later.

If you could bring in a young pg like Suggs or Tre Jones, I have no issues trading some of our youth. I think that is a risk you can take for a decent price. There is always the fear a young player is going to blow up on another team like Kessler but I think we have a pretty good idea who Garza and Minott are, who they could be, and who they could be with our roster if we are keeping Towns, Gobert, and Reid for the next 3 seasons. The opposite side of that of course is trading Kat for that young point guard, someone like Cade while letting the youth big's develop and be ready to step in. I think I would lean, your route of going for someone like Suggs.

[Note30]

Vit K was let go

[cmoss84]

Today is the last preseason game. Some early observations:

- this team emphases pace and space. It has been seen in Towns aggressiveness in shooting threes and attacking closeouts.
- they dont try involve Gobert directly, but when ball movement is initiated Gobert is much more useful with his roll gravity, screening
- Reid plays bunch minutes alongside of Gobert and Towns.
- I feel like even without big Conley minutes on the floor our roster is much more balanced with Reid, Anderson, NAW, Milton, Brown and McLaughlin. I love to see McLaughlin playing mistake free basketball, but also I am impressed with Milton scoring ability (not so much passing) and Brown ballhandling, shooting and passing. Hopefully we have some depth this season
- Minott and Miller look raw as hell, still making rookie mistakes. Minott must improve his three point shot, because he is more slashing, rim running big right now, while Miller looks more like a big wing
- while fans expect this team to be make a huge leap by doing mething at elite level, but I have a feeling that this team will "just" make bunch of those small, almost evident improvements that will propel to big success. For instance, be at least positive at defensive and offensive rebounding, believe in success, dont commit stupid fouls, dont argue with referees, dont punch teammates and walls etc

I just saw the boxscore...Miller had 15 boards and a guard had 19/10...are you able to go into detail a bit more about the game? Appreciate it!
(I think there is one more preseason game tonight)