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Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition

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Re: Trade Talk (Part 1[emoji239[emoji2392]]): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#1601 » by shangrila » Thu Feb 6, 2025 8:22 am

younggunsmn wrote:
shangrila wrote:
Slim Tubby wrote:KAT wanted to stay in MIN. We even traded a league generation of FRPs for Gobert to pair with Karl to create a unique advantage. A year later, we abandon this strategy and move Karl for absolute ****.

Why did we do this? What changed following our greatest season in 20 years? Was Connelly unaware that he could review our Salary Cap structure farther than six (6) months out?

I can't think of a worse scenario for an NBA team than having your GM, on the last year of their contract, making long-term decisions for the franchise.

Tim Connelly can **** off right along with our ownership. The ultimate cost of his actions will be the loss of Ant. The road to his departure has already been paved.

With that said, I DO appreciate your efforts to remain positive. It's a rare quality these days and admirable...but sometimes a guy just needs to read the room and accept what his eyes are telling him.

Sent from my N152DL using RealGM mobile app

What changed? The CBA. The Gobert trade was done prior to the newest CBA.

A lot of people on this board seem unwilling to admit that they overrated KAT's value. If there were significantly better trades out there they would have been made, but there weren't. And for as good as KAT is he has an equal number of drawbacks, whether that's defensively (worst rim protector in the league this year), health or contract.

The deal was a soft reboot around Ant. The effect of it, good or bad, was always a long term thing. It can't be judged definitively at this time.


This is wrong on so many levels.
1. This franchise in this market was NEVER going to maintain such a high level of salary for more than a year or two, luxury tax, new CBA or no. Adding Gobert to a supermax and soon to be supermax player was either a short term gamble or ridiculously shortsighted decsion by Connelly.

2. TC traded 5 first round picks for Gobert whose on court presence destroyed KAT's value by forcing him to be a perimeter player only.

3. TC then traded KAT and the primary return was Julius Randle, who we likely can't even get an expiring contract for.

4. To get out of 4 years of KAT we took on 2 years of Julius Randle, who also has a substantial injury history, which was absolutely a moronic thing to do and is likely to cost us Naz this summer.
For a supposed salary dump trade we are getting little to no savings for half of his remaining contract.

5. KAT has a shot at first team All-NBA this year if he can remain healthy.
He was once rated the most valuable trade asset in the entire league and is still in his prime at 29 years old.
His team is on a pace to be 6 or 7 wins better and the team he left is on a pace to be 10 wins worse and that could get even worse.

Lets call the KAT trade what it really is, Tim Connelly being a terrible judge of fit and talent.
He has a coach who plays a 5 out system and since he's arrived he has traded 5 1st round picks and an All-NBA talent in his prime for Rudy Gobert and a ball pounding PF who is most effective playing like a bulldozer.

Were we going to get fair value for KAT? Maybe. Maybe not.
But the best path forward was always letting KAT be KAT and getting the most out of our supermax player.
That became impossible once he traded for Gobert, so his first mistake is what caused the 2nd.

I'll be honest, I'm not going to touch the trade KAT debate again because of my last go at that. So, sure, whatever you say mate.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 1[emoji239[emoji2392]]): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#1602 » by shangrila » Thu Feb 6, 2025 8:31 am

Slim Tubby wrote:
shangrila wrote:
Slim Tubby wrote:KAT wanted to stay in MIN. We even traded a league generation of FRPs for Gobert to pair with Karl to create a unique advantage. A year later, we abandon this strategy and move Karl for absolute ****.

Why did we do this? What changed following our greatest season in 20 years? Was Connelly unaware that he could review our Salary Cap structure farther than six (6) months out?

I can't think of a worse scenario for an NBA team than having your GM, on the last year of their contract, making long-term decisions for the franchise.

Tim Connelly can **** off right along with our ownership. The ultimate cost of his actions will be the loss of Ant. The road to his departure has already been paved.

With that said, I DO appreciate your efforts to remain positive. It's a rare quality these days and admirable...but sometimes a guy just needs to read the room and accept what his eyes are telling him.

Sent from my N152DL using RealGM mobile app

What changed? The CBA. The Gobert trade was done prior to the newest CBA.

A lot of people on this board seem unwilling to admit that they overrated KAT's value. If there were significantly better trades out there they would have been made, but there weren't. And for as good as KAT is he has an equal number of drawbacks, whether that's defensively (worst rim protector in the league this year), health or contract.

The deal was a soft reboot around Ant. The effect of it, good or bad, was always a long term thing. It can't be judged definitively at this time.
Certainly a fair point regarding the CBA. But are you saying that Connelly and the rest of the NBA had no idea of the changes coming prior to being implemented? I find that rather hard to believe, don't you?

Regardless, none of that changes the fact that we still traded away our 2nd most talented player on the roster (who loved it here) for the equivalent of a turd sandwich.

Does it really matter how other teams may have valued KAT? We are already seeing the impact of his loss this season and what his value meant to the Wolves. That's the only real "value" that matters, right?

I would've easily sacrificed Naz and NAW to keep KAT
and that's even before factoring in the assets we could've received back for Reid, and to a lesser extent, with NAW.

Having an expiring GM make crucial, long-term trades and roster decisions is a fatal mistake for a franchise.

Sent from my N152DL using RealGM mobile app

The bold is where you and I (and the team) disagree.

It's not even specifically about Naz and NAW. The issue is that keeping KAT would have lead to a team of Ant, KAT, Gobert, McDaniels, Rob I guess and whatever minimums we could scrounge up. We wouldn't have been able to sign anyone, we wouldn't have been able to trade anyone without aggregation, and our picks would have been frozen. We would have been a repeat of the Suns.

I'll say it again; this was a soft reboot around Ant with a goal towards maximising his future. People are trying to make definitive statements about that 6 months in. That's stupid.

But answer me this; if KAT was so awesome, so valuable to every other team in the league, why was this "turd sandwich" of a deal the best we could get?
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#1603 » by Norseman79 » Thu Feb 6, 2025 12:32 pm

Man, some of these deals and the price tags, be interesting to see if we do actually do anything. Mark Williams would have been a nice piece to add and develop.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 1[emoji239[emoji2392]]): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#1604 » by guest81 » Thu Feb 6, 2025 1:03 pm

shangrila wrote:
Slim Tubby wrote:
shangrila wrote:What changed? The CBA. The Gobert trade was done prior to the newest CBA.

A lot of people on this board seem unwilling to admit that they overrated KAT's value. If there were significantly better trades out there they would have been made, but there weren't. And for as good as KAT is he has an equal number of drawbacks, whether that's defensively (worst rim protector in the league this year), health or contract.

The deal was a soft reboot around Ant. The effect of it, good or bad, was always a long term thing. It can't be judged definitively at this time.
Certainly a fair point regarding the CBA. But are you saying that Connelly and the rest of the NBA had no idea of the changes coming prior to being implemented? I find that rather hard to believe, don't you?

Regardless, none of that changes the fact that we still traded away our 2nd most talented player on the roster (who loved it here) for the equivalent of a turd sandwich.

Does it really matter how other teams may have valued KAT? We are already seeing the impact of his loss this season and what his value meant to the Wolves. That's the only real "value" that matters, right?

I would've easily sacrificed Naz and NAW to keep KAT
and that's even before factoring in the assets we could've received back for Reid, and to a lesser extent, with NAW.

Having an expiring GM make crucial, long-term trades and roster decisions is a fatal mistake for a franchise.

Sent from my N152DL using RealGM mobile app

The bold is where you and I (and the team) disagree.

It's not even specifically about Naz and NAW. The issue is that keeping KAT would have lead to a team of Ant, KAT, Gobert, McDaniels, Rob I guess and whatever minimums we could scrounge up. We wouldn't have been able to sign anyone, we wouldn't have been able to trade anyone without aggregation, and our picks would have been frozen. We would have been a repeat of the Suns.

I'll say it again; this was a soft reboot around Ant with a goal towards maximising his future. People are trying to make definitive statements about that 6 months in. That's stupid.

But answer me this; if KAT was so awesome, so valuable to every other team in the league, why was this "turd sandwich" of a deal the best we could get?


The last image of Kat before the trade was him crapping the bed in another playoff series. He's also missed a significant amount of time every year for the past like what 5 years?
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#1605 » by shrink » Thu Feb 6, 2025 1:10 pm

LibertyPrime wrote:SloMo goes to Miami as part of the Butler deal. Wonder if they're intent on keeping him.... I'd like to see him back but I might be alone in that regard.

We can’t legally reacquire him for one year after a trade, but yes, he’d be a great fit right now. More size and playmaking. But his three year deal could be an issue.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#1606 » by shrink » Thu Feb 6, 2025 1:18 pm

winforlose wrote:
Ethomasp31 wrote:
BlacJacMac wrote:Lonzo Ball is also OUT tonight due to "Left Knee; Injury Management," though it's likely he's on the trade block before tomorrow's deadline.


ESPN had an update that he is signing a 2 year $20 extension with Chicago.


Jack Borman who used to run Canis and does locked on post casts said he believes that extension does not make Lonzo trade ineligible. He also speculated that it might be a precursor to a trade of Randle for Ball and Smith. I hate the idea, but at least the 2nd year is a team option, so we won’t be totally destroyed by it, just badly damaged.

I believe the rule is that a player is trade ineligible for six months if the extension is for more than 5% of his previous contract, and this was for significantly less.

Personally I think this makes Klomp’s Ball + Smith trade more attractive. It’s a very team-friendly deal, since the second year is a team option. I think we’d take a step back this season by trading away Randle’s size, but to use him to pick up a better deal (as we did with KAT and DDV), isn’t the worst move for the future. It also clears $12 mil in space for next year to pay Naz and NAW and get under the second apron.

However, it is still a bet against Dillingham though, or Ant becoming a better playmaker over the next two years, so I’m not sure that’s what Connelly wants to do. Still, if Ball got minutes now, he’s would be a decent trade asset when either Dilly or Ant are ready.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#1607 » by fattymcgee » Thu Feb 6, 2025 1:33 pm

Norseman79 wrote:Man, some of these deals and the price tags, be interesting to see if we do actually do anything. Mark Williams would have been a nice piece to add and develop.


How do you propose we would have gotten him?
The Lakers gave up a crazy amount to get him, he's not worth that.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#1608 » by Norseman79 » Thu Feb 6, 2025 1:40 pm

fattymcgee wrote:
Norseman79 wrote:Man, some of these deals and the price tags, be interesting to see if we do actually do anything. Mark Williams would have been a nice piece to add and develop.


How do you propose we would have gotten him?
The Lakers gave up a crazy amount to get him, he's not worth that.


A crazy amount? Knecht, Reddish, a pick swap and a 2031 first?
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#1609 » by thinktank » Thu Feb 6, 2025 1:45 pm

winforlose wrote:
thinktank wrote:Bulls didn’t trade LaVine to then trade White.


One would think, but who knows what the Bulls are actually doing. If they are blowing it up (seems likely,) then they should move White, and Randle as a 30 million expiring would be a good vehicle to get bad contracts next season along with some picks.


LOL
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#1610 » by Baseline81 » Thu Feb 6, 2025 1:48 pm

Norseman79 wrote:A crazy amount? Knecht, Reddish, a pick swap and a 2031 first?

Do the Wolves want to be giving up Dillingham and a far future first?

Note the Hornets already have their PG, thus a third team would have to be included to take on Dillingham.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#1611 » by Norseman79 » Thu Feb 6, 2025 2:01 pm

Baseline81 wrote:
Norseman79 wrote:A crazy amount? Knecht, Reddish, a pick swap and a 2031 first?

Do the Wolves want to be giving up Dillingham and a far future first?

Note the Hornets already have their PG, thus a third team would have to be included to take on Dillingham.


Alexander-Walker?
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#1612 » by shrink » Thu Feb 6, 2025 2:02 pm

Baseline81 wrote:
Norseman79 wrote:A crazy amount? Knecht, Reddish, a pick swap and a 2031 first?

Do the Wolves want to be giving up Dillingham and a far future first?

Note the Hornets already have their PG, thus a third team would have to be included to take on Dillingham.

Good comp. A pickswap and an unprotected 2031 1st is exactly what we gave up for Dillingham, so we would need to add to match this offer. Then again, it’s the Lakers’ picks, which are generally worse because they draw free agents, so ..

Mark Williams is a good offensive player but he is horrible on defense, which is a serious weakness for a center. On top of that, he is a substantial injury risk. The Lakers are making a huge gamble that coming to LA will change both of his glaring negatives. I would not have traded Dillingham for him.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#1613 » by Norseman79 » Thu Feb 6, 2025 2:21 pm

shrink wrote:
Baseline81 wrote:
Norseman79 wrote:A crazy amount? Knecht, Reddish, a pick swap and a 2031 first?

Do the Wolves want to be giving up Dillingham and a far future first?

Note the Hornets already have their PG, thus a third team would have to be included to take on Dillingham.

Good comp. A pickswap and an unprotected 2031 1st is exactly what we gave up for Dillingham, so we would need to add to match this offer. Then again, it’s the Lakers’ picks, which are generally worse because they draw free agents, so ..

Mark Williams is a good offensive player but he is horrible on defense, which is a serious weakness for a center. On top of that, he is a substantial injury risk. The Lakers are making a huge gamble that coming to LA will change both of his glaring negatives. I would not have traded Dillingham for him.


Dillingham was drafted higher and hasn't had the same type of injury concerns. If I sent them Dillingham, I would have wanted more back.

I would have sent them NAW. A NAW and Ball backcourt would be very good for them.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#1614 » by Zonarosa » Thu Feb 6, 2025 2:22 pm

winforlose wrote:
thinktank wrote:Bulls didn’t trade LaVine to then trade White.


One would think, but who knows what the Bulls are actually doing. If they are blowing it up (seems likely,) then they should move White, and Randle as a 30 million expiring would be a good vehicle to get bad contracts next season along with some picks.


and then the bulls could grab okogie to be their pg of the future.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#1615 » by moss_is_1 » Thu Feb 6, 2025 2:30 pm

Norseman79 wrote:
I would have sent them NAW. A NAW and Ball backcourt would be very good for them.

And they would have laughed you off the phone. What need do the Hornets have for an expiring 7th-8th man?
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#1616 » by moss_is_1 » Thu Feb 6, 2025 2:51 pm

Watching Garza the last few games, we need a 3rd center pretty bad.

I'm not seeing much by just trading Naw. Moving Randle makes it easier but obviously is a much bigger deal.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#1617 » by shrink » Thu Feb 6, 2025 3:01 pm

So I don’t know if the fanbase or lux-paying ownership would accept it, but suppose Connelly wanted to get a little worse this season to be better longterm (part of the goal of the KAT trade).

Randle for Ball + Jalen Smith … saves $3.1 this year, $12 next year

NAW to SAC for TPE + 2 CHA 2nds .. saves $4.3 this year, ??? next year (can’t bring him back)


Without calculating it, saving $7.4 mil might save owner $35 mil, which might lessen the sting of still paying $65 mil in lux taxes for a team that doesn’t excel in the playoffs.

I don’t know how I feel about that plan.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#1618 » by minimus » Thu Feb 6, 2025 3:24 pm

BRO IN: Randle, DET FRP, TJ
BRO OUT: Day'Ron Sharpe, Ziaire Williams, Bogdanovic, BRO SRP 2025 and 2026

Why for BRO: they can afford risk of Randle next year player option, and can gamble on upgrading their two early SRPs to possible DET FRP pick

CHI IN: Bogdanovic, Minott
CHI OUT: Lonzo Ball

Why for CHI: get small incentive for re-signing and trading Lonzo

MIN IN: Day'Ron Sharpe, Ziaire Williams, Lonzo Ball, BRO SRP 2025 and 2026
MIN OUT: Randle, DET FRP, TJ (separate trade), Minott (separate trade)

Why for MIN: create room for Reid and NAW extension, get true PG, get backup big. Sharpe is very aggressive, physical and mobile big, something that Gobert naturally is not. Also with NAW new contract, DDV and Jaylen Clark progress I dont think MIN have enough opportunities for TJ.

Gobert/Sharpe/Garza
Reid/McDaniels/Miller
McDaniels/NAW/Williams
Edwards/DDV/Clark
Ball/Conley or Rob
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#1619 » by frankenwolf » Thu Feb 6, 2025 3:35 pm

minimus wrote:BRO IN: Randle, DET FRP, TJ
BRO OUT: Day'Ron Sharpe, Ziaire Williams, Bogdanovic, BRO SRP 2025 and 2026

Why for BRO: they can afford risk of Randle next year player option, and can gamble on upgrading their two early SRPs to possible DET FRP pick

CHI IN: Bogdanovic, Minott
CHI OUT: Lonzo Ball

Why for CHI: get small incentive for re-signing and trading Lonzo

MIN IN: Day'Ron Sharpe, Ziaire Williams, Lonzo Ball, BRO SRP 2025 and 2026
MIN OUT: Randle, DET FRP, TJ (separate trade), Minott (separate trade)

Why for MIN: create room for Reid and NAW extension, get true PG, get backup big. Sharpe is very aggressive, physical and mobile big, something that Gobert naturally is not. Also with NAW new contract, DDV and Jaylen Clark progress I dont think MIN have enough opportunities for TJ.

Gobert/Sharpe/Garza
Reid/McDaniels/Miller
McDaniels/NAW/Williams
Edwards/DDV/Clark
Ball/Conley or Rob

IDK Minimus, Seems like with Brooklyn blowing it up, they wouldn't want Randle unless they were sure he would opt in and then have a trade in place for future assets. I think they are looking @ OKC and are wanting to rebuild like that. However, I could be way wrong. If I was any good at this, I wouldn't be posting here, I would be making millions in a front office somewhere. :D :D
Your 2026-2027 NBA Champions!! :D
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Re: Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition 

Post#1620 » by minimus » Thu Feb 6, 2025 3:48 pm

frankenwolf wrote:IDK Minimus, Seems like with Brooklyn blowing it up, they wouldn't want Randle unless they were sure he would opt in and then have a trade in place for future assets. I think they are looking @ OKC and are wanting to rebuild like that. However, I could be way wrong. If I was any good at this, I wouldn't be posting here, I would be making millions in a front office somewhere. :D :D


Yeah, Brooklyn have only 60 mil guaranteed next season, if they want follow OKC path, they should at least consider taking big contracts for incentives, just like Presti did (Al Horford trade???)

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