2016 draft thread: Part 2

[King Malta]

Good grief, take the bickering to the General Board, nobody wants to read it in here.

[LibertyPrime]

Dragan Bender has fallen to the 7th pick in DraftExpress and NBADraft.net mock drafts and Chad Ford has him at 6th (for what that's worth).

Would you select him if he's available at 5? Not long ago he was a consensus 3rd/4th pick so I hadn't really thought about him in the Twolves.

What do you think?

Absolutely, personally think it is a lot of misdirection. He is the one guy you are hearing nothing about.

Which is the scary thing....I've heard that his workouts were great, that his workouts were terrible, etc. Could be misdirection, but could be either way.... people wanting him to fall, people wanting him to be selected higher. It's all just smoke and mirrors around this guy. I certainly don't want to pass on Murray and/or Hield for that.

[Mattya]

Dragan Bender has fallen to the 7th pick in DraftExpress and NBADraft.net mock drafts and Chad Ford has him at 6th (for what that's worth).

Would you select him if he's available at 5? Not long ago he was a consensus 3rd/4th pick so I hadn't really thought about him in the Twolves.

What do you think?

Absolutely, personally think it is a lot of misdirection. He is the one guy you are hearing nothing about.

Which is the scary thing....I've heard that his workouts were great, that his workouts were terrible, etc. Could be misdirection, but could be either way.... people wanting him to fall, people wanting him to be selected higher. It's all just smoke and mirrors around this guy. I certainly don't want to pass on Murray and/or Hield for that.

I would absolutely pass on Hield for Bender. Murray and Bender are the best combo of talent/potential/fit for the Wolves.

[_AIJ_]

Bender wont be good. We already have Bjelica for that. Go with Murray/Dunn

[wolves_89]

I looked through a number of recent mock drafts and was surprised at how often Bender was available and the Wolves passed on him. In over 20 mocks Bender was available in about half and I think I only saw him selected by the Wolves one time. Is there something going on with Bender to make him drop down the draft board?

Here is the link I looked at that listed the mock drafts:
http://www.foxsports.com/north/story/minnesota-timberwolves-nba-mock-drafts-kris-dunn-dragan-bender-buddy-hield-jamal-murray-062216

[Mattya]

Bender wont be good. We already have Bjelica for that. Go with Murray/Dunn

Bender will be good. Bjelica was nobody at the same age and will likely never be the defender that Bender is.

[Krapinsky]

I looked through a number of recent mock drafts and was surprised at how often Bender was available and the Wolves passed on him. In over 20 mocks Bender was available in about half and I think I only saw him selected by the Wolves one time. Is there something going on with Bender to make him drop down the draft board?

Here is the link I looked at that listed the mock drafts:
http://www.foxsports.com/north/story/minnesota-timberwolves-nba-mock-drafts-kris-dunn-dragan-bender-buddy-hield-jamal-murray-062216

One person speculates we're not high on Bender (Chad Ford) and 19 other people follow the speculation.

[wolves_89]

I looked through a number of recent mock drafts and was surprised at how often Bender was available and the Wolves passed on him. In over 20 mocks Bender was available in about half and I think I only saw him selected by the Wolves one time. Is there something going on with Bender to make him drop down the draft board?

Here is the link I looked at that listed the mock drafts:
http://www.foxsports.com/north/story/minnesota-timberwolves-nba-mock-drafts-kris-dunn-dragan-bender-buddy-hield-jamal-murray-062216

One person speculates we're not high on Bender (Chad Ford) and 19 other people follow the speculation.

Based on what little is known of Bender he seems like the near ideal fit for both PHO and MIN. A week ago I thought there was very little chance Bender would be available at #5 and now he could be on the board at 7 or 8. I am starting to wish that Thibs and Layden would leak just a little bit of information to give fans a hint of what they are thinking.

[gopher wolf]

On the ESPN draft preview show, Broussard interviewed Colangelo and he said that if they were to hypothetically take Simmons, they would want to surround him with a great shooter or multiple great shooters for Simmons to distribute to and if they were to hypothetically going to take Ingram, they would want him to have a great PG that could get him the ball.

Since they are taking Simmons, would that mean they would likely take Hield/Murray as their shooter if they get the #3 pick or is it pretty set in stone that their taking Dunn regardless of who they take at #1? Since were likely (hopefully not) passing on Bender, I really want Dun to fall to #5.

[Klomp]

Bender wont be good. We already have Bjelica for that. Go with Murray/Dunn

Bender is taller/longer/better than Bjelica.

We should've passed on Karl-Anthony Towns because we already had Gorgui Dieng for that.

[YourBuddy]

Apparently the Kings could only get one player(Wade Baldwin) in for a workout ranked in Chad Ford's top 30 prospects. Agents are apparently really avoiding them.

[ace625214]

I don't know why they drafted this Peterson kid. Chester Taylor is the best back in the division!

[NewWolvesOrder]

I don't necessarily want to get into a whole thread debate here, but Rubio-Murray would make an excellent back court as well, even better than Murray-Lavine since the other guys on the court would probably never see the ball with those two shooting 15-20 times per game.

With that logic im sure gsw and Portland sucks too. Murray and Lavine won't take that many shots, they will just make everybody around them better by blowing the court wide open

I think you're ignoring some context here. Lillard and Curry were pretty well established play making point guards when they came into the league. Lavine has shown he has no point guard skills. Murray hasn't shown such skills outside of high school - he had a 1:1 A/T ratio last year.

And Towns hadn't shown that he could shoot a 3 outside of high school, but he was able to once he hit pros. Cal can do some weird stuff to his players.

[Krapinsky]

At this point I am just scared of Brown and Chriss. I would be OK with any of Hield, Murray, Dunn, or (the way I see it) rolling the dice on Bender.

[younggunsmn]

This is going to be a really long post so stop reading now if you care about that.
I've watched the Draft Express strengths and weaknesses videos for the prospects in our draft range
(If you havent yet I highly recommend it), along with some other assorted game film and here are my draft board and thoughts.
Simmons and Ingram go 1-2 so my draft board starts at 3.

1. Buddy Hield
There is little not to like about this guy. His weaknesses video scared me the least of all the prospects because most of it was just a very mediocre Oklahoma team asking him to play hero ball. His fundamentals are very sound, his quick release and shot mechanics are a thing of beauty. He has excellent footwork in the paint and on the break, is quick and decisive in the paint. He doesnt have the killer first step of a young wade, but he knows how to attack a closeout, create space with his dribble, and move without the ball. While his athleticism isnt elite, and he isnt going to break guys down in ISO like Kobe or Harden, he has enough twitch to him to score in this league.

The thing for me that separates him from Murray by quite a wide margin are his physical traits. His above average length and strong frame should allow him to guard 3's and switch off onto bigger players at times. His strength and strong lower body are part of what give him such great balance and keep him so consistent as a shooter. Zach his first year especially was floating all over the place on his jumper and his balance was terrible, as he got stronger it was no coincidence his shot got better. Same thing with Buddy if you watch his physical maturation over his time at Oklahoma.

While not an elite defender in college, his strength, athleticism, and all the improvement he showed in college give me faith that he can adapt to Thibs' system. I think he will be able to play the 2 or 3 depending on matchups and share the court with ricky, zach, and wiggins and allow us to play all of them 30+ minutes. I'm not a college B-Ball addict and I was skeptical as Hield picked up so much tournament hype, but the further I went back this season watching tape on him the more I liked what I saw. He was that team, the talent and coaching around him wasnt great, putting the team on his back like he did was something special.
I see him ending up somewhere between Bradley Beal and Ray Allen, and I think he's the safest pick in the draft (Including Simmons and Ingram).



2. Kris Dunn
Prototypical blend of size and athleticism in a PG. Maybe the most upside in the draft, if he puts it all together you have yourself another unicorn. Very unpolished in decision making and shooting but elite taking it to the basket. A guy coaches see all the potential and talk themselves into believing they can turn him into a star. A guy who underachieved in college, how much of that was on coaching/weak supporting cast and how much can be attributed to lack of BBIQ. Can defend 3 positions and switch screens without a problem, and that is going to be very attractive to Thibs. Can he share the court with Ricky and play off the ball with his lack of an outside shot? If he falls to 5 could generate alot of trade down interest.
I see him ending up somewhere between Tyreke Evans and John Wall.


3. Jamal Murray
He's a good shooter and good at using screens, and he's young. But for me upside has always been more about physical traits and athletic ability than age. He definitely has the ability to score the ball if you run plays for him, the question is if the rest of his game translates to him being a net positive on the court.

Watching his videos, I saw alot of the things I hated about Kevin Martin. The slow first step. Dribbling into traffic and taking an ugly off balance jumper. Early shot clock chucking. Having a wide open lane to the basket and being too slow/frail to take advantage of it. Getting thrown around like a ragdoll chasing his man around a staggered screen. Getting his feet tangled defending an Iso. He definitely has a good motor (unlike Martin) and gives 100%, I just really dont like his athletic upside at all, on both sides of the ball.

In the NBA you basically can play any position you can defend (outside PG) and I see Murray being strictly a 2.
All the combo guard talk is just Calipari talking up his guy. Its easy for him to play the 1 against 17 year olds in international play, its kind of like how many MLBers who end up in the OF or 3B all played SS in High School. He had more turnovers than assists in college and he was featured on that Kentucky team, he is no combo guard in the NBA where guys are bigger and quicker at both guard positions. And him being strictly a 2 means he can't share the court with Lavine, and that is a big problem. Having those 2 defending at the same time would have Thibs popping a vein.
I think his age and the Kentucky goggles have people a little overhyped on him.

I think his upside is an Allan Houston type player, he may end up Kevin Martin with a better motor.

4. Dragan Bender
Boy is this kid raw. His upside is size and Agility for his size (which may diminish as he adds weight. He isnt close to being able to defend and rebound at an NBA level and wont be for at least a couple year. He has a very shaky offensive game and inconsient mechanics. Scariest weaknesses video of any prospect I watched, Tskitishvili scary. You are betting all upside on this guy, and we already have our Unicorn in Towns and Bender's upside would more duplicate him than compliment him.

5. jaylen Brown
Reminds me alot of Al Farouq Aminu. doesnt have a great handle or shot but has defensive upside. Will probably be a decent 3 and D roleplayer like Aminu if he can ever get his shot together.

6. Chriss Poeltl Ellensen Davis Labissiere
One word, YUCK. Some teams reportedly getting excited by Chriss's athleticism, but I dont like his frame, his game, or his BBIQ.


There are some guys who have a chance to be decent role players (Have an NBA ready skill or 2 but flaws are too big to project as starters) in the 10-30 range and that part of the draft is going to be really interesting. Guys like Wade Baldwin, Domantas Sabonis, Luwawu, Denzel Valentine, Malik Beasley, Brice Johnson, Denzel Valentine.

Here are my draft predictions:
1-2 Simmons, Ingram
3. Philly ends up with pick and takes Dunn
4. Phx - takes bender but really afraid they may take Hield
5. Min - Hield
6. NO - Murray

Would really be cool to see us pick up a late 1st or 2nd and have Thibs use that keen scouting eye on a player. Would be nice to see Glen actually buy a pick after all those years of selling them.

Any salary matching for an established (8 mil +) player on draft night is going to have to involve RIcky, KG, or Pek, and for that reason I think a draft night trade involving a big name isnt very likely. Much more likely for us to make moves once we have cap space when the league year starts over.

Would not be surprised to see Bazz traded for a late 1st. Minutes getting squeezed if we draft Hield/Dunn/Murray, should trade at peak value, not a thibs fit as no 3 and no d, and really dont think we should extend him I like Bazz, he has a knack for scoring, just dont think its a fit.

Would not do 5+Lavine for Jimmy Butler. I think Lavine is going to get better, Butler isnt enough of a shooter, an unrestricted free agent in 3 years, and that's like giving up 2 top 5 picks, and thats too much for me. Rather than pay a very high price for a player he developed the smart things is for Thibs to develoop another player, find another diamond in the rough or turn Lavine/Wiggins into superstars.

No way I move 5 for Manimal, I wouldnt even trade down to 7 if we werent absolutely 100% sure we get the guy we are targeting. His rebounding would fit great in a rotation with KAT/Gorgui, I think the most important thing this draft is getting the guy we are targeting.

I am really optimistic to see Gorgui under Thibs tutelage. His shooting and passing really created a ton of room for KAT and Wiggins and if he can improve his defense enough to stay on the floor it makes our offense so, so much better.
Be great to see him anticipating instead of reacting, and moving with purpose and positioning instead of trailing looking for the shotblock, giving up rebounding positioning.
Gorgui really isnt that far away from Ibaka, he just plays so undisciplned on the defensive end.

For that reason I'm not as concerned about the perceived hole next to KAT. I'd love a big bad bruiser to throw into the rotation with KAT and Gorgui, but I think we may be disappointed (for now) when Thibs adds a cheap vet like Brandon Bass.

This Draft is the first look into what kind of POBO Thibs is going to be, which is a huge unknown at this point. Alot of the speculation is that he is a sell the future to win now kind of guy, and I really really really hope that isnt the case and I am optimistic a guy as dedicated to the game as Thibs isnt that short sighted. I really hope I dont see him dump Lavine for a veteran before he's even had a practice with him or do something dumb like 5 for manimal. Its been reported he pushed to draft Gorgui and Draymond, and I'm optimistic he can take the long view when it comes to winning and not trade the future for guys who can walk in 2-3 years when we have Wig and KAT prime.

[fattymcgee]

At this point I am just scared of Brown and Chriss. I would be OK with any of Hield, Murray, Dunn, or (the way I see it) rolling the dice on Bender.

That's exactly how I feel. I keep cycling between the 4 you listed and would be fine with any of them.

[Calinks]

After getting more info, I am back on the Hield bandwagon. Buddy is my top guy, then Murray. If both are somehow gone with Dunn, then Bender.

[Adenusi]

I look forward to seeing Buddy in a Wolves cap tomorrow.

[wildvikeswolves]

After getting more info, I am back on the Hield bandwagon. Buddy is my top guy, then Murray. If both are somehow gone with Dunn, then Bender.

Ingram would be a pretty nice consolation prize in that case

[minimus]

I've watched Hield shooting session during workout in LA. Now I'm a bit worried about his adaptation to NBA 3pt line