Trade Talk (Part 17): Early Offseason Planning

[winforlose]

Westbrook was playmaking when he could drive and finish at rim. When defense commited, he had a passing lane. He is not a facilitator nor pick-n-roll wizard, and he never was. TJ is already a better player for MIN than current Westbrook.

Westbrook can also bring the ball up court against pressure. Something that has absolutely haunted us the past few years.

In this case it is a role, not a skill.

This is the crux of the problem. We lack pure PGs who can run the offense, but we also have a coach who doesn’t want to run an offense. That is why no matter who we bring in to play PG, Finch will never win a championship. His offense is not built to survive great defense, and that has been proven the last two years.

[BlacJacMac]

Westbrook was playmaking when he could drive and finish at rim. When defense commited, he had a passing lane. He is not a facilitator nor pick-n-roll wizard, and he never was. TJ is already a better player for MIN than current Westbrook.

Westbrook can also bring the ball up court against pressure. Something that has absolutely haunted us the past few years.

In this case it is a role, not a skill.

I’d say it’s both. It’s a role, but it requires specific skills to accomplish.

[theGreatRC]

Bringing the ball up court against pressure is absolutely a skill. Many guys can make moves with their ball handling, but to stay calm under pressure and not prematurely counter every move the defense tries to make you do requires lots of discipline and reps against pressure.

Lot's of guys speed themselves up once they feel pressure, Mike Conley and other true point guards have mastered that..I feel like Rob loves to counter dribble every time he feels pressure but he's also used to getting picked up full court as a point guard

With all that said, I wouldn't mind Westbrook on this team at all, a dog being around dogs

[KGdaBom]

Westbrook can also bring the ball up court against pressure. Something that has absolutely haunted us the past few years.

In this case it is a role, not a skill.

This is the crux of the problem. We lack pure PGs who can run the offense, but we also have a coach who doesn’t want to run an offense. That is why no matter who we bring in to play PG, Finch will never win a championship. His offense is not built to survive great defense, and that has been proven the last two years.

Nothing has been proven. We had two great seasons in a row making the conference finals. That does not in any way, shape or form prove that Finch will never win a championship.

[m2002brian]

In this case it is a role, not a skill.

This is the crux of the problem. We lack pure PGs who can run the offense, but we also have a coach who doesn’t want to run an offense. That is why no matter who we bring in to play PG, Finch will never win a championship. His offense is not built to survive great defense, and that has been proven the last two years.

Nothing has been proven. We had two great seasons in a row making the conference finals. That does not in any way, shape or form prove that Finch will never win a championship.

Maybe a little disingenuous. If Curry doesn’t get hurt. We might get past round 2 and the Fakers get a very nice whistle for a team that doesn’t take a lot of paint shots.

[minimus]

This happened when LAL asked Westbrook to be a PG.

Watch on YouTube

In DEN he played next to Jokic, Murray, brought energy, hustle, rebounding. But basically DEN replaced him with Bruce Brown.

Watch on YouTube

Meanwhile our coaching staff gives more opportunities to TJ as offensive engine. Starting from SL and now in preseason.

Watch on YouTube

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[KGdaBom]

This is the crux of the problem. We lack pure PGs who can run the offense, but we also have a coach who doesn’t want to run an offense. That is why no matter who we bring in to play PG, Finch will never win a championship. His offense is not built to survive great defense, and that has been proven the last two years.

Nothing has been proven. We had two great seasons in a row making the conference finals. That does not in any way, shape or form prove that Finch will never win a championship.

Maybe a little disingenuous. If Curry doesn’t get hurt. We might get past round 2 and the Fakers get a very nice whistle for a team that doesn’t take a lot of paint shots.

I consider both of those seasons great. I don't think those seasons proved that Finch would NEVER win a championship. There was nothing disingenuous about my comment. If Curry doesn't get injured it's possible they could have beat us. We'll never know.

[KGdaBom]

This happened when LAL asked Westbrook to be a PG.

Watch on YouTube

In DEN he played next to Jokic, Murray, brought energy, hustle, rebounding. But basically DEN replaced him with Bruce Brown.

Watch on YouTube

Meanwhile our coaching staff gives more opportunities to TJ as offensive engine. Starting from SL and now in preseason.

Watch on YouTube

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

I love the Shannon to Dilly resulting in the A le loup to Le Berricade.

[winforlose]

Nothing has been proven. We had two great seasons in a row making the conference finals. That does not in any way, shape or form prove that Finch will never win a championship.

Maybe a little disingenuous. If Curry doesn’t get hurt. We might get past round 2 and the Fakers get a very nice whistle for a team that doesn’t take a lot of paint shots.

I consider both of those seasons great. I don't think those seasons proved that Finch would NEVER win a championship. There was nothing disingenuous about my comment. If Curry doesn't get injured it's possible they could have beat us. We'll never know.

Did we look close to beating either Dallas or OKC? Has our offense consistently looked as good as it should with the weapons we have? Have you noticed how late in game when defense tightens up we tend to melt down? Have you noticed Ant tends to play anti PG late game when he goes hero mode? Maybe you will notice it this year.

[KGdaBom]

Maybe a little disingenuous. If Curry doesn’t get hurt. We might get past round 2 and the Fakers get a very nice whistle for a team that doesn’t take a lot of paint shots.

I consider both of those seasons great. I don't think those seasons proved that Finch would NEVER win a championship. There was nothing disingenuous about my comment. If Curry doesn't get injured it's possible they could have beat us. We'll never know.

Did we look close to beating either Dallas or OKC? Has our offense consistently looked as good as it should with the weapons we have? Have you noticed how late in game when defense tightens up we tend to melt down? Have you noticed Ant tends to play anti PG late game when he goes hero mode? Maybe you will notice it this year.

I noticed we made two conference finals in a row. I noticed that if Luka isn't making miraculous shots in the last minute against us we would have gone to the finals. I noticed some things that could have been better. That is not in any way, shape, or form proof that Finch will never win a title.

[Note30]

Maybe a little disingenuous. If Curry doesn’t get hurt. We might get past round 2 and the Fakers get a very nice whistle for a team that doesn’t take a lot of paint shots.

I consider both of those seasons great. I don't think those seasons proved that Finch would NEVER win a championship. There was nothing disingenuous about my comment. If Curry doesn't get injured it's possible they could have beat us. We'll never know.

Did we look close to beating either Dallas or OKC? Has our offense consistently looked as good as it should with the weapons we have? Have you noticed how late in game when defense tightens up we tend to melt down? Have you noticed Ant tends to play anti PG late game when he goes hero mode? Maybe you will notice it this year.

What weapons, outside of Ant we don't have a single player who can carry an offense. The closest thing we have is a geriatric PG who will retire at the end of this season.

Randle who is offensively inconsistent? Jaden who has a hard time playing against anyone with some length or good hands, and just drives with blinders on?

We have/had a solid defense.

I'm not saying Finch is the best coach. He has made some pretty questionable decisions at times and his offense is a little underwhelming at times.

But the blame is not entirely on his scheme.

Outside of a 2013 Spurs type coaching staff, I don't think there's a coach staff who would transform this team. The gap is just that big, and it's only going to get worse each year as Rudy, JR get older and McDaniels becomes an unwanted commodity.

The rest of the top teams in the league except the Warriors are getting better by the year but we peaked.

That series against Denver was the closest thing to a chip this iteration of this team will win.

[Klomp]

I think we should replace Chris Finch with Kurt Rambis, just to remind some people what bad coaching looks like.

[winforlose]

I think we should replace Chris Finch with Kurt Rambis, just to remind some people what bad coaching looks like.

Oh I remember. But the spectrum is not Finch on one end and Rambis on the other.

[KGdaBom]

I think we should replace Chris Finch with Kurt Rambis, just to remind some people what bad coaching looks like.

Oh I remember. But the spectrum is not Finch on one end and Rambis on the other.

I wish you would just let it go on your crusade to fire the most successful coach in Wolves history, but you have convinced yourself that he's bad.

[winforlose]

I think we should replace Chris Finch with Kurt Rambis, just to remind some people what bad coaching looks like.

Oh I remember. But the spectrum is not Finch on one end and Rambis on the other.

I wish you would just let it go on your crusade to fire the most successful coach in Wolves history, but you have convinced yourself that he's bad.

We were discussing trading for a PG. It was correctly pointed out that getting the best PG in the league is only half of the issue. The other half is giving them the role and scheme to maximize the advantage. My point is Finch already has Mike essentially playing SG most of the time. Outside of Mike we have Dilly, Bones, and Newton to play PG. DDV might do it despite being bad at it, out of necessity. I don’t think most of us agree we need to make a trade, but who can we get that won’t need the ball? Especially when we are getting them to run the offense.

[KGdaBom]

Oh I remember. But the spectrum is not Finch on one end and Rambis on the other.

I wish you would just let it go on your crusade to fire the most successful coach in Wolves history, but you have convinced yourself that he's bad.

We were discussing trading for a PG. It was correctly pointed out that getting the best PG in the league is only half of the issue. The other half is giving them the role and scheme to maximize the advantage. My point is Finch already has Mike essentially playing SG most of the time. Outside of Mike we have Dilly, Bones, and Newton to play PG. DDV might do it despite being bad at it, out of necessity. I don’t think most of us agree we need to make a trade, but who can we get that won’t need the ball? Especially when we are getting them to run the offense.

Finch doesn't agree with the idea that the PG needs to be the full time QB of the team. If we had a Steve Nash I would be in favor of him being full time QB and I bet Finch would also. If we were able to acquire somebody of that caliber I bet Finch would agree with us. Until we have that player his use of the PG is reasonable. I don't like watching Ant or Randle pound the ball for 10 seconds looking for or trying to create openings so I lean towards your way of thinking, but to me that's far from a fireable offense.

[winforlose]

I wish you would just let it go on your crusade to fire the most successful coach in Wolves history, but you have convinced yourself that he's bad.

We were discussing trading for a PG. It was correctly pointed out that getting the best PG in the league is only half of the issue. The other half is giving them the role and scheme to maximize the advantage. My point is Finch already has Mike essentially playing SG most of the time. Outside of Mike we have Dilly, Bones, and Newton to play PG. DDV might do it despite being bad at it, out of necessity. I don’t think most of us agree we need to make a trade, but who can we get that won’t need the ball? Especially when we are getting them to run the offense.

Finch doesn't agree with the idea that the PG needs to be the full time QB of the team. If we had a Steve Nash I would be in favor of him being full time QB and I bet Finch would also. If we were able to acquire somebody of that caliber I bet Finch would agree with us. Until we have that player his use of the PG is reasonable. I don't like watching Ant or Randle pound the ball for 10 seconds looking for or trying to create openings so I lean towards your way of thinking, but to me that's far from a fireable offense.

By itself I agree. However I am not suggesting this in a vacuum. What I am saying for this discussions purposes is that we lack the talent we need to go where we want to go. You think Finch will change his offense if we have a better PG, I doubt it. His offense has been the the same since we brought him in. That being true, we cannot exactly afford a top shelf PG. We need to make do with a a bargain brand player. He also should be under contract for at least one more season, and be capable of operating inside the Finch offense. I don’t know who that would be. I like Jose Alverado, I could live with Dlo, I don’t know who else we could get.

[ILC]

I wish you would just let it go on your crusade to fire the most successful coach in Wolves history, but you have convinced yourself that he's bad.

We were discussing trading for a PG. It was correctly pointed out that getting the best PG in the league is only half of the issue. The other half is giving them the role and scheme to maximize the advantage. My point is Finch already has Mike essentially playing SG most of the time. Outside of Mike we have Dilly, Bones, and Newton to play PG. DDV might do it despite being bad at it, out of necessity. I don’t think most of us agree we need to make a trade, but who can we get that won’t need the ball? Especially when we are getting them to run the offense.

Finch doesn't agree with the idea that the PG needs to be the full time QB of the team. If we had a Steve Nash I would be in favor of him being full time QB and I bet Finch would also. If we were able to acquire somebody of that caliber I bet Finch would agree with us. Until we have that player his use of the PG is reasonable. I don't like watching Ant or Randle pound the ball for 10 seconds looking for or trying to create openings so I lean towards your way of thinking, but to me that's far from a fireable offense.

Exactly.

Finch was in charge of the 17/18 Pelicans offense under Gentry and it ran beautifully. One of my favorite seasons as a Rondo fan.

This team's BBIQ is very low. They have no idea when to reward a big for hustling defensively, no idea when to run the same play 3 times in a row to get their shooter hot, to get a guy that is struggling some easy shots to try and get him going etc. That isn't on the coach, it is simply low IQ. If this team had even a late career Rondo or CP3 running point it would be night and day.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[FrenchMinnyFan]

This debate is interesting. As Mike is getting too old to be a 30 min starter PG, the point is do we need a good PG to run the show? i don't think it's necessary Finch mindset's to play with a PG and for me the reason may be simple : ANT! ANT love to get the ball in hands ( as Randle) which make, whoever play PG, sitting in a corner and waiting to get the ball ( or not).
Things won't change as long as ANT game do not change. Will he change with more experience? Time will tell but i do believe ANT like to be the hero and accepting to have another player who run the show more than him is not something i will bet on.

[frankenwolf]

This debate is interesting. As Mike is getting too old to be a 30 min starter PG, the point is do we need a good PG to run the show? i don't think it's necessary Finch mindset's to play with a PG and for me the reason may be simple : ANT! ANT love to get the ball in hands ( as Randle) which make, whoever play PG, sitting in a corner and waiting to get the ball ( or not).
Things won't change as long as ANT game do not change. Will he change with more experience? Time will tell but i do believe ANT like to be the hero and accepting to have another player who run the show more than him is not something i will bet on.

Yes, however Ant has said that he does not want to be the primary ball handler. I think we need a PG for the sake of pushing pace and keeping the ball moving. A good PG will find his teammates in the right spots at the right time to take advantage of the mismatches. He will also be a threat to score so there is no sagging off him. Bite-bite does a good job and I hope that Dilly will also, as he learns from Mike and gets playing time.