Trade Talk (Part Six)

[shrink]

In their season-ending interviews, Rosas and Finch said two important things

1. A playoff team has 7-8 rotation guys and we have 5.

(Towns, DLo, Ant, Beasley, McDaniels, right?)

2. We need a PF that can protect the rim, defend pick-and-roll, and rebound.

(I would add that a credible three point shooter allows us to maintain our advantage with KAT. Who can do these 4?)

[TheZachAttack]

In their season-ending interviews, Rosas and Finch said two important things

1. A playoff team has 7-8 rotation guys and we have 5.

(Towns, DLo, Ant, Beasley, McDaniels, right?)

2. We need a PF that can protect the rim, defend pick-and-roll, and rebound.

(I would add that a credible three point shooter allows us to maintain our advantage with KAT. Who can do these 4?)

I think this is the right conversation, but there is a bigger conversation on how many rotation guys do we have. Are we sure that Naz and/or Vanderbilt aren't rotation guys or developing into ones? Naz averaged 21/9/2 per 36 on 60% 2 PT FG - 35% 3 PT FG - 70% FT percentages. Is that not enough to be a legit back-up big? The Wolves had a 122 br offensive rating and a 110 br defensive rating when Vanderbilt was on the floor last season. In addition, the majority of the Timberwolves most positive 2-man lineups last season included Vanderbilt, can he not be a backup rotation high-energy defensive big wing guard/big? He averaged 14 points - 15 rebounds (including 5 offensive) - 3 assists - 5 STOCKs per 36 minutes last season on +60% 2 PT FG%.

In addition, if Bolmaro is coming over last season can he be developed into a rotation guy? Rubio is also a rotation guy, though probably not long-term. I mean even Okogie had a +60% TS in the second half last season while playing plus defense. If we're willing to focus on Ant's 2nd half and project that for him for the future, why aren't we doing that for Okogie or at least willing to entertain the idea?

I think what we can say is that we current have 5 (6 if you count Rubio) rotation players and as many as 4 maybe's. From there, you get into the bigger conversation of "okay, we may have more than 5 legit rotation players... but do they fit in this roster construction" and that's a different conversation than we only have X guys.

[bluethunder0005]

In their season-ending interviews, Rosas and Finch said two important things

1. A playoff team has 7-8 rotation guys and we have 5.

(Towns, DLo, Ant, Beasley, McDaniels, right?)

2. We need a PF that can protect the rim, defend pick-and-roll, and rebound.

(I would add that a credible three point shooter allows us to maintain our advantage with KAT. Who can do these 4?)

Not sure how he is defending the pick-and-roll but one of the only guys I can think of that can do the other 3 well would be Chris Boucher on the Raptors. Finch would have even worked with him during his time their as an assistant. He had a pretty solid year this year but with the Raptors maybe trending towards rebuilding and him only having 1 more year on his current deal maybe he wouldn't be too expensive to get.

[TaylorTag]

Assuming we don't keep the pick, would Nowell net us like a 2nd round pick or anything?

Trying to think of other trade candidates on our roster besides of Rubio and Beasely

[Klomp]

Would you trade a top 3 pick, rubio/beasley for Ben Simmons?

Probably

[Klomp]

In their season-ending interviews, Rosas and Finch said two important things

1. A playoff team has 7-8 rotation guys and we have 5.

(Towns, DLo, Ant, Beasley, McDaniels, right?)

2. We need a PF that can protect the rim, defend pick-and-roll, and rebound.

(I would add that a credible three point shooter allows us to maintain our advantage with KAT. Who can do these 4?)

I think this is the right conversation, but there is a bigger conversation on how many rotation guys do we have. Are we sure that Naz and/or Vanderbilt aren't rotation guys or developing into ones? Naz averaged 21/9/2 per 36 on 60% 2 PT FG - 35% 3 PT FG - 70% FT percentages. Is that not enough to be a legit back-up big? The Wolves had a 122 br offensive rating and a 110 br defensive rating when Vanderbilt was on the floor last season. In addition, the majority of the Timberwolves most positive 2-man lineups last season included Vanderbilt, can he not be a backup rotation high-energy defensive big wing guard/big? He averaged 14 points - 15 rebounds (including 5 offensive) - 3 assists - 5 STOCKs per 36 minutes last season on +60% 2 PT FG%.

In addition, if Bolmaro is coming over last season can he be developed into a rotation guy? Rubio is also a rotation guy, though probably not long-term. I mean even Okogie had a +60% TS in the second half last season while playing plus defense. If we're willing to focus on Ant's 2nd half and project that for him for the future, why aren't we doing that for Okogie or at least willing to entertain the idea?

I think what we can say is that we current have 5 (6 if you count Rubio) rotation players and as many as 4 maybe's. From there, you get into the bigger conversation of "okay, we may have more than 5 legit rotation players... but do they fit in this roster construction" and that's a different conversation than we only have X guys.

The term they used was core pieces, not rotation guys....

[minimus]

In their season-ending interviews, Rosas and Finch said two important things

1. A playoff team has 7-8 rotation guys and we have 5.

(Towns, DLo, Ant, Beasley, McDaniels, right?)

2. We need a PF that can protect the rim, defend pick-and-roll, and rebound.

(I would add that a credible three point shooter allows us to maintain our advantage with KAT. Who can do these 4?)

I think this is the right conversation, but there is a bigger conversation on how many rotation guys do we have. Are we sure that Naz and/or Vanderbilt aren't rotation guys or developing into ones? Naz averaged 21/9/2 per 36 on 60% 2 PT FG - 35% 3 PT FG - 70% FT percentages. Is that not enough to be a legit back-up big? The Wolves had a 122 br offensive rating and a 110 br defensive rating when Vanderbilt was on the floor last season. In addition, the majority of the Timberwolves most positive 2-man lineups last season included Vanderbilt, can he not be a backup rotation high-energy defensive big wing guard/big? He averaged 14 points - 15 rebounds (including 5 offensive) - 3 assists - 5 STOCKs per 36 minutes last season on +60% 2 PT FG%.

In addition, if Bolmaro is coming over last season can he be developed into a rotation guy? Rubio is also a rotation guy, though probably not long-term. I mean even Okogie had a +60% TS in the second half last season while playing plus defense. If we're willing to focus on Ant's 2nd half and project that for him for the future, why aren't we doing that for Okogie or at least willing to entertain the idea?

I think what we can say is that we current have 5 (6 if you count Rubio) rotation players and as many as 4 maybe's. From there, you get into the bigger conversation of "okay, we may have more than 5 legit rotation players... but do they fit in this roster construction" and that's a different conversation than we only have X guys.

1) Agree about Reid and Vando. We need to stick to the most obvious and simple solution: just play guys who are big enough. Use two big lineup KAT-Reid against certain matchups, use KAT-Vando lineup against certain lineups. No more crazy ideas such as playing Culver or Okogie at PF.

2) I think that PF and SF positions are interchangeable, the problem here is that Okogie and Ant are better fit at SG than SF. I am very encouraged by Ant progress at rebounding, but I rather have McDaniels at SF and Ant at SG. I mean go big at all positions. Playing legit 6'7"-6'9" guys at SF might help us. But it really depends on development of Daniels and Ant.

3) I dont think we have a realistic chance to get even Daniel Theis type of player on long contract in FA market, I also doubt we can get John Collins or Lauri Markannen via trade. They either cost too much or are not defensive minded players we need. But at the same time I hope we can get a veteran PF who can mentor our young bigs how to play positional defense. I hope we can get one of Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, Torrey Craig, Khem Birch for vetmin to fill 15th spot in our roster. I think it would not make sense bring them this season, but if we are in win-now mode next season they can definitely help.

Last but not least. I think this team did a pretty bad job this year by defending PoA. DLo made some improvements in defensive effort, but still a liability, Rubio has no legs, Okogie and Culver disappointed, Ant is a rookie. Having a guy who can defend PoA without being liability in offense would help this team immensely. right now we dont have such player, although Nowell gives effort in defense and Bolmaro looks promising in defense. With full offseason and preseason working together, building chemistry I see a lot of potential for Beasley/Nowell/Bolmaro bench unit. If our core players KAT-Ant-DLo can control the flow of the game, it will open a lot opportunities for Beasley/Nowell/Bolmaro and role players. I still think two PGs lineups can be a working solution here with DLo-Nowell-Bolmaro all playing comboguards. I kind of expect a huge improvement if we replace Rubio current production as ballhandler and decision maker with someone who is younger, able to hit open threes and defend. I see a lot of value in drafting Suggs. This guy can make this team unstoppable all 48 minutes. He can make it unpredictable for opponent playing next to shooters such as KAT, DLo and Beasley. He can create a dynamic backcourt with Edwards. Mobley is an ideal fit next to KAT as well. Lets hope basketball Gods will appreciate our decision not to tank but in "worst case scenario" where we lose our pick to GSW I'd do following:

1) re-sign Vando for Hinkie deal
2) actively shop Rubio, Juancho as expiring contracts, let Culver fully recover and regain some trade value
3) convince Bolmaro to play here
4) sign Torrey Craig, Khem Birch to vetmin
5) I think Okogie will be eligible for extension, so I would definitely try to negotiate a new team-friendly deal

KAT/Reid/Birch
Vando/McDaniels/Reid
McDaniels/Craig/Ant
Ant/Beasley/Okogie
DLo/Nowell/Bolmaro

[Wolves21]

Honestly depends on if we get a top three pick and what we can get in terms of a trade for Rubio & or Beasley to upgrade the PF spot.

So the big needs are a starting caliber PF and a back up PG or ideally a starting PG(ala like Rondo,Beverley..ect thats a pass first and defensive mind guard) which would move Russell to the 6th man role which I think is his ideally fit(and something we could stomach even with his $30M price tag for a season or two before having to MAX Edwards.

So ideally your ten man rotation would be,

PG/Russell
Edwards/Bolmaro
McDaniels/Henangomez
PF/Vanderbilt
Towns/Reid

With trade pieces like Beasley,Rubio & Okogie(think Culver is COOKED right now in terms of anything positive coming back) should be enough to upgrade the PG/PF spot and again if we land a top 3 pick then will really be cooking.

Honestly think if we add two pieces or so that if healthy could be a top five team in the WEST next season.

[Mamba4Goat]

I’m not sure if it’s been discussed but if Minnesota has given up on Culver and wants to open up the space for Bolmaro how do you guys feel about Culver for Baynes and the GS and Memphis 2nds? Baynes would be a fun fit as a placeholder center next to Towns. Especially if he can bounce back.

[old school 34]

In their season-ending interviews, Rosas and Finch said two important things

1. A playoff team has 7-8 rotation guys and we have 5.

(Towns, DLo, Ant, Beasley, McDaniels, right?)

2. We need a PF that can protect the rim, defend pick-and-roll, and rebound.

(I would add that a credible three point shooter allows us to maintain our advantage with KAT. Who can do these 4?)

I think this is the right conversation, but there is a bigger conversation on how many rotation guys do we have. Are we sure that Naz and/or Vanderbilt aren't rotation guys or developing into ones? Naz averaged 21/9/2 per 36 on 60% 2 PT FG - 35% 3 PT FG - 70% FT percentages. Is that not enough to be a legit back-up big? The Wolves had a 122 br offensive rating and a 110 br defensive rating when Vanderbilt was on the floor last season. In addition, the majority of the Timberwolves most positive 2-man lineups last season included Vanderbilt, can he not be a backup rotation high-energy defensive big wing guard/big? He averaged 14 points - 15 rebounds (including 5 offensive) - 3 assists - 5 STOCKs per 36 minutes last season on +60% 2 PT FG%.

In addition, if Bolmaro is coming over last season can he be developed into a rotation guy? Rubio is also a rotation guy, though probably not long-term. I mean even Okogie had a +60% TS in the second half last season while playing plus defense. If we're willing to focus on Ant's 2nd half and project that for him for the future, why aren't we doing that for Okogie or at least willing to entertain the idea?

I think what we can say is that we current have 5 (6 if you count Rubio) rotation players and as many as 4 maybe's. From there, you get into the bigger conversation of "okay, we may have more than 5 legit rotation players... but do they fit in this roster construction" and that's a different conversation than we only have X guys.

The term they used was core pieces, not rotation guys....

Good call...yeah, I do think they distinguished it that way. Those others are definitely rotation guys but maybe not yet core guys (still maybe some ceiling there for a few)...

Rosas did add an reality check nugget in that while they want to check all those say PF boxes...that may not be realistically available & they may have to get creative depending on how offseason plays out. It also sounded very much like they feel very comfortable working in the sign & trade market....& pointed to past as feeling they feel confident in understanding that market? Don't know how much of that is that's where they really want to operate or just knowing what their roster is & that is just the reality of where they'll need to work in? If they do live in the sign & trade world....does that hard cap them for the upcoming year on any other deals @ say trade deadline?

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app

[shrink]

I also should have added that he said any defensive addition shouldn’t come by “cannibalizing” the offense.

Tough task.

[karch34]

I also should have added that he said any defensive addition shouldn’t come by “cannibalizing” the offense.

Tough task.

Good point. I would think that with 4 core pieces that will need and should get a lot of shots that it could just be a plus defender that isn't an offensive liability. Still a tough task but maybe a bit easier if were not hoping for a true two way player rather an offensively average who plays good D.

[ClarkeW]

I’m not sure if it’s been discussed but if Minnesota has given up on Culver and wants to open up the space for Bolmaro how do you guys feel about Culver for Baynes and the GS and Memphis 2nds? Baynes would be a fun fit as a placeholder center next to Towns. Especially if he can bounce back.

Ideally I think the team would want to clear out as much of Culver’s cap space as possible when moving him. This feels pretty “sell low” for a sixth overall pick going into his third year (even though he’s been a complete failure).

That said, I may actually do it. Baynes could be that dose of toughness that we need. He could crack a role in our lineup, or fill the Ed Davis spot as the first big off the bench when somebody gets hurt. And if things aren’t working out I think his contract is just as easy to move at the deadline as Culver’s is. Plus we come out of it with a couple of second round picks.

[shrink]

Here’s a trade that is getting some positive response on the Trade Board

Chris Boucher for Naz and Culver

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=91071278#p91071278

[NebWolvesFan]

Boucher is really good and really cheap. I can't see Toronto moving him.

[thinktank]

He plays the same position as McD.

And then who is KAT’s backup?

[shrink]

This Boucher trade is one of the best received trades I’ve seen this year, getting raves from TOR, MIN, and neutral fans.

Back up centers are numerous and cheap. I like McDaniels at the 3 if we can clear out some glut, and this trade helps by moving Culver. I suspect we have some pretty big changes coming, so predicting is hard, but I’m OK with ..

3. McDaniels, Ant’s back up minutes
4. Boucher, Vanderbilt (like, $3.0, $3.5, $4.0 team option?)
5. Towns, ???

[shrink]

I also wanted to mention that Rubio’s trade value might not be as negative as some people believe.

Ricky is a very unique type of player, and for some teams he would have little value at $17.8 mil next year. However, he is a good fit on a few teams (I like CHI), and those are the teams that will set the market.

Ricky’s value also benefited from all the extensions that were signed this year. Several teams maneuvered to have lots of cap space to make offers to stars like Giannis, but most of the truly talented free agents signed extensions with their current teams. Several other teams now have lots of cap space and no one to spend it on. Ricky has value to a team like them because he can play, but also because he is an expiring contract. He doesn’t bring the risk of signing a lesser player to a three year deal, and trading for Ricky’s expiring may maintain their cap space for 2022, when there may be more talent in the market.

I am not 100% convinced we will trade Ricky. He has value to this team on the court, but also off it as a team leader. I think the decision will come down to whether the Wolves think Rubio is needed to continue to be a catalyst for Ant’s growth, and whether Ant’s growth is the team priority next year, instead of saving money or bringing in a player that may get us more wins,

[Neeva]

If wolves keep the pick , they will almost be forced to trade Ricky.

[NebWolvesFan]

If wolves keep the pick , they will almost be forced to trade Ricky.

Not if they draft Mobley.

McDaniels/Bolmaro/Okogie
Mobley/Hernangomez/Layman (hopefully V8)
Towns/Reid
Edwards/Beasley/Nowell
Russell/Rubio