Trade Talk (Part 14): 2023-24 Edition

[KGdaBom]

Is this ClutchPoints guy, Brett Siegel, really an insider? Anyone know the guy?

He looks like he’s 15 years old.

At least he got the tax right. Do Wolves really have the luxury to afford a 17mil bench guy? I would go for the other Bogdanovic who has one year less contract. Maybe something like Bogdan+Ivey for KA + JMcD. Roll the dice on Ivey to be the future point guard and trade away JMcD's contract for Bogdan's contract.

The other Bogdanovic is Bojan.

[KGdaBom]

Towns, Milton, Moore for Suggs, Isaac, WCJ, 2025 ORL FRP, 2026 ORL FRP, two SRPs.

Why for ORL: they form a very dangerous five-out ready frontcourt Towns-Banchero-Wagner, Suggs and WCJ can be replaced with Black, Mo Wagner and Bitadze. Isaac is not reliable enough to be in long term plans. ORL can afford Towns contract, because of rookie contracts of Wagner and Banchero.

Why for MIN:

1) they unload Towns massive contract and get manageable, tradable contracts and picks to operate in future.

- in 2024-25 Isaac has 17.4 mil non-guaranteed, fully guaranteed on 1/10/25
- WCJ has descending contract 12 mil in 2024-25, 11 mil in 2025-26

2) they get future starting PG in Suggs, hometown kid, already a tough, physical, defensive minded specialist who is shooting 45% FG, 39% 3PT

3) they get two FRPs, two SRPs to operate in trades

In this scenario I still think we can win one playoff series, but it will be definitely a challenge for coaching staff to replace Towns with Reid/Anderson/Isaac production. But I think what we lose in offensive production in starting unit, we can compensate by Suggs defense and shooting in second unit.

Gobert/WCJ/Reid + Garza
Reid/Isaac/Anderson + Minott
McDaniels/Anderson/TBJ + Miller
Edwards/NAW/TBJ
Conley/Suggs/McLaughlin + Nix

But the most interesting part begins next season:

if my calculation are correct then if we let Isaac go and re-sign Conely (30 mil/2yrs) and McLaughlin (vetmin) we are 7.8 mil below tax line, sign FRP and SRP:

Gobert/WCJ/Reid
Reid/Minott/Miller
McDaniels/TBJ/???
Edwards/NAW/???
Conley/Suggs/McLaughlin

Here TC will have flexibility to resign Anderson, or keep Isaaс and trade later, resign NAW. In this scenario we will still need a shooter, but I like how consistent our identity will be on defensive end, while we will keep Gobert/Reid/McDaniels/Edwards/Conley/NAW core for two years together. X-factor here is Miller if he can provide an upgrade to our bench unit

Read on Twitter

Yuck.

[minimus]

I like Suggs, but I don’t see him as a PG at all.

I’d worry about an Ant/Suggs backcourt really bogging things down.

Yeah, you can take last game against OKC as positive example and game against SAS/CHA as negative example of how this team look with defensive minded comboguard as starting PG. But. First, IMO Suggs defense is elite. Second, his rookie contract would allow us to keep Conley: read have some insurance and mentoring at PG. Finally, I think that every perimeter player in current NBA who wants to reach a superstar level must have good to elite playmaking skills. Two year of Conley/Suggs would give Edwards time to grow organically in this area.

[minimus]

Towns, Milton, Moore for Suggs, Isaac, WCJ, 2025 ORL FRP, 2026 ORL FRP, two SRPs.

Why for ORL: they form a very dangerous five-out ready frontcourt Towns-Banchero-Wagner, Suggs and WCJ can be replaced with Black, Mo Wagner and Bitadze. Isaac is not reliable enough to be in long term plans. ORL can afford Towns contract, because of rookie contracts of Wagner and Banchero.

Why for MIN:

1) they unload Towns massive contract and get manageable, tradable contracts and picks to operate in future.

- in 2024-25 Isaac has 17.4 mil non-guaranteed, fully guaranteed on 1/10/25
- WCJ has descending contract 12 mil in 2024-25, 11 mil in 2025-26

2) they get future starting PG in Suggs, hometown kid, already a tough, physical, defensive minded specialist who is shooting 45% FG, 39% 3PT

3) they get two FRPs, two SRPs to operate in trades

In this scenario I still think we can win one playoff series, but it will be definitely a challenge for coaching staff to replace Towns with Reid/Anderson/Isaac production. But I think what we lose in offensive production in starting unit, we can compensate by Suggs defense and shooting in second unit.

Gobert/WCJ/Reid + Garza
Reid/Isaac/Anderson + Minott
McDaniels/Anderson/TBJ + Miller
Edwards/NAW/TBJ
Conley/Suggs/McLaughlin + Nix

But the most interesting part begins next season:

if my calculation are correct then if we let Isaac go and re-sign Conely (30 mil/2yrs) and McLaughlin (vetmin) we are 7.8 mil below tax line, sign FRP and SRP:

Gobert/WCJ/Reid
Reid/Minott/Miller
McDaniels/TBJ/???
Edwards/NAW/???
Conley/Suggs/McLaughlin

Here TC will have flexibility to resign Anderson, or keep Isaaс and trade later, resign NAW. In this scenario we will still need a shooter, but I like how consistent our identity will be on defensive end, while we will keep Gobert/Reid/McDaniels/Edwards/Conley/NAW core for two years together. X-factor here is Miller if he can provide an upgrade to our bench unit

Read on Twitter

Feels like a sell low on Towns and a step backwards on the season.

I wonder what you opinion will be after trade deadline. IMO 2nd apron and new season approaching might change whole NBA landscape.

[winforlose]

Towns, Milton, Moore for Suggs, Isaac, WCJ, 2025 ORL FRP, 2026 ORL FRP, two SRPs.

Why for ORL: they form a very dangerous five-out ready frontcourt Towns-Banchero-Wagner, Suggs and WCJ can be replaced with Black, Mo Wagner and Bitadze. Isaac is not reliable enough to be in long term plans. ORL can afford Towns contract, because of rookie contracts of Wagner and Banchero.

Why for MIN:

1) they unload Towns massive contract and get manageable, tradable contracts and picks to operate in future.

- in 2024-25 Isaac has 17.4 mil non-guaranteed, fully guaranteed on 1/10/25
- WCJ has descending contract 12 mil in 2024-25, 11 mil in 2025-26

2) they get future starting PG in Suggs, hometown kid, already a tough, physical, defensive minded specialist who is shooting 45% FG, 39% 3PT

3) they get two FRPs, two SRPs to operate in trades

In this scenario I still think we can win one playoff series, but it will be definitely a challenge for coaching staff to replace Towns with Reid/Anderson/Isaac production. But I think what we lose in offensive production in starting unit, we can compensate by Suggs defense and shooting in second unit.

Gobert/WCJ/Reid + Garza
Reid/Isaac/Anderson + Minott
McDaniels/Anderson/TBJ + Miller
Edwards/NAW/TBJ
Conley/Suggs/McLaughlin + Nix

But the most interesting part begins next season:

if my calculation are correct then if we let Isaac go and re-sign Conely (30 mil/2yrs) and McLaughlin (vetmin) we are 7.8 mil below tax line, sign FRP and SRP:

Gobert/WCJ/Reid
Reid/Minott/Miller
McDaniels/TBJ/???
Edwards/NAW/???
Conley/Suggs/McLaughlin

Here TC will have flexibility to resign Anderson, or keep Isaaс and trade later, resign NAW. In this scenario we will still need a shooter, but I like how consistent our identity will be on defensive end, while we will keep Gobert/Reid/McDaniels/Edwards/Conley/NAW core for two years together. X-factor here is Miller if he can provide an upgrade to our bench unit

Read on Twitter

Feels like a sell low on Towns and a step backwards on the season.

I wonder what you opinion will be after trade deadline. IMO 2nd apron and new season approaching might change whole NBA landscape.

I am down with trading Karl, just not for such a low return. My suggestion was some kind of deal with the Hawks for Jalen Johnson, and Murray with Kyle and Okongwu also moving. Or in the alternative find a team willing to give us 5 firsts and moveable money and redirect it for Murray and Markkanen. Something like is selling high, your suggestion is selling low.

Does anyone really doubt Karl is as valuable or more valuable than Donovan Mitchell at this point?

[minimus]

Feels like a sell low on Towns and a step backwards on the season.

I wonder what you opinion will be after trade deadline. IMO 2nd apron and new season approaching might change whole NBA landscape.

I am down with trading Karl, just not for such a low return. My suggestion was some kind of deal with the Hawks for Jalen Johnson, and Murray with Kyle and Okongwu also moving. Or in the alternative find a team willing to give us 5 firsts and moveable money and redirect it for Murray and Markkanen. Something like is selling high, your suggestion is selling low.

Does anyone really doubt Karl is as valuable or more valuable than Donovan Mitchell at this point?

IMO you underestimate how contract situation can impact player value. Jalen Johnson combination of cheap contract, improvement and potential ceiling is making him untouchable. Five first doesn't have much value for us , because we have entered win now mode after Gobert trade. You can get five firsts right away from OKC, just imagine how they will improve if they replace non shooting Giddey with Towns! But. I honestly believe that Suggs is more valuable for us than let say three late FRPs: he fits our defensive minded identity, he is an improving shooter, and he is a local guy.

[winforlose]

I wonder what you opinion will be after trade deadline. IMO 2nd apron and new season approaching might change whole NBA landscape.

I am down with trading Karl, just not for such a low return. My suggestion was some kind of deal with the Hawks for Jalen Johnson, and Murray with Kyle and Okongwu also moving. Or in the alternative find a team willing to give us 5 firsts and moveable money and redirect it for Murray and Markkanen. Something like is selling high, your suggestion is selling low.

Does anyone really doubt Karl is as valuable or more valuable than Donovan Mitchell at this point?

IMO you underestimate how contract situation can impact player value. Jalen Johnson combination of cheap contract, improvement and potential ceiling is making him untouchable. Five first doesn't have much value for us , because we have entered win now mode after Gobert trade. You can get five firsts right away from OKC, just imagine how they will improve if they replace non shooting Giddey with Towns! But. I honestly believe that Suggs is more valuable for us than let say three late FRPs: he fits our defensive minded identity, he is an improving shooter, and he is a local guy.

5 firsts gets you Murray and more. Maybe even Markkanen. If not Markkanen then what about Murray, Caruso, and Vuc plus keep a first. (2 for Murray, 2 for Caruso and Vuc.)

[BlacJacMac]

I am down with trading Karl, just not for such a low return. My suggestion was some kind of deal with the Hawks for Jalen Johnson, and Murray with Kyle and Okongwu also moving. Or in the alternative find a team willing to give us 5 firsts and moveable money and redirect it for Murray and Markkanen. Something like is selling high, your suggestion is selling low.

Does anyone really doubt Karl is as valuable or more valuable than Donovan Mitchell at this point?

IMO you underestimate how contract situation can impact player value. Jalen Johnson combination of cheap contract, improvement and potential ceiling is making him untouchable. Five first doesn't have much value for us , because we have entered win now mode after Gobert trade. You can get five firsts right away from OKC, just imagine how they will improve if they replace non shooting Giddey with Towns! But. I honestly believe that Suggs is more valuable for us than let say three late FRPs: he fits our defensive minded identity, he is an improving shooter, and he is a local guy.

5 firsts gets you Murray and more. Maybe even Markkanen. If not Markkanen then what about Murray, Caruso, and Vuc plus keep a first. (2 for Murray, 2 for Caruso and Vuc.)

If you can get Murray and Markkanen, you have to do it.

I don't like Vuc with Rudy.

[winforlose]

IMO you underestimate how contract situation can impact player value. Jalen Johnson combination of cheap contract, improvement and potential ceiling is making him untouchable. Five first doesn't have much value for us , because we have entered win now mode after Gobert trade. You can get five firsts right away from OKC, just imagine how they will improve if they replace non shooting Giddey with Towns! But. I honestly believe that Suggs is more valuable for us than let say three late FRPs: he fits our defensive minded identity, he is an improving shooter, and he is a local guy.

5 firsts gets you Murray and more. Maybe even Markkanen. If not Markkanen then what about Murray, Caruso, and Vuc plus keep a first. (2 for Murray, 2 for Caruso and Vuc.)

If you can get Murray and Markkanen, you have to do it.

I don't like Vuc with Rudy.

So start Naz and play Vuc with Naz. Vuc is a career 34.2% from deep. They have to guard him, even in a down year. Plus with Ant’s gravity Vuc will get good looks. If you think you can find a better spacing and rebounding big within the framework please help me out. This is as a raw and off the top of my head as it gets.

My point is this is the type of return KAT should get. Lesser players who together make us better. Caruso raises our defense instantly, Murray is the PG of the future, and Vuc is no Karl, but is far from valueless as a 3rd big. Now move Kyle and Troy for shooting and you still have an extra first to play with next year as needed.

[minimus]

I am down with trading Karl, just not for such a low return. My suggestion was some kind of deal with the Hawks for Jalen Johnson, and Murray with Kyle and Okongwu also moving. Or in the alternative find a team willing to give us 5 firsts and moveable money and redirect it for Murray and Markkanen. Something like is selling high, your suggestion is selling low.

Does anyone really doubt Karl is as valuable or more valuable than Donovan Mitchell at this point?

IMO you underestimate how contract situation can impact player value. Jalen Johnson combination of cheap contract, improvement and potential ceiling is making him untouchable. Five first doesn't have much value for us , because we have entered win now mode after Gobert trade. You can get five firsts right away from OKC, just imagine how they will improve if they replace non shooting Giddey with Towns! But. I honestly believe that Suggs is more valuable for us than let say three late FRPs: he fits our defensive minded identity, he is an improving shooter, and he is a local guy.

5 firsts gets you Murray and more. Maybe even Markkanen. If not Markkanen then what about Murray, Caruso, and Vuc plus keep a first. (2 for Murray, 2 for Caruso and Vuc.)

Again, Suggs is on rookie contract, Murray will earn 28 mil per year. And honestly, I am not impressed with Murray as defender as I am impressed with Suggs. I am also not a fan of Murray personality. I am not so concentrate on number of picks, if we can get right combination of assets, it will be enough for me.

[shangrila]

KAT won't get 5 1sts. Those sorts of deals don't exist in the new CBA.

People won't like it but a deal I've thought is somewhat realistic following the season;

ATL trades; Dejounte Murray, Clint Capela, '24 ATL 1st (currently 9th), '24 SAC 1st (currently 21st)
ATL receives: Karl-Anthony Towns, '24 MIN 1st (currently 29th)

And then vice versa for us. There might be some additional things here or there, like some 2nds or young guy swaps, but that's the gist of it.

For Atlanta, they get the second star to pair with Trae while keeping a lot of their role players to still field a competent team. A starting lineup of, say, Young-Bogdanovic-Johnson-Okongwu-KAT is decently balanced and you could swap Hunter for Okongwu (moving Johnson back to the 4).

For the Wolves, we get a good, cost-controlled PG that should help to mitigate both Mike's eventual retirement and the scoring loss from Towns. We also move up in the draft to acquire a couple of young guys to help fill out the roster more along Ant/Jaden/Naz's timeline. I know this is considered a weak draft but that's more in terms of top end talent, there's a ton of guys that are interesting if you're not banking on them being franchise altering stars.

EDIT: I should mention Clint is an expiring next season that could also be moved either for extra value or, worst case, flat salary relief.

[winforlose]

IMO you underestimate how contract situation can impact player value. Jalen Johnson combination of cheap contract, improvement and potential ceiling is making him untouchable. Five first doesn't have much value for us , because we have entered win now mode after Gobert trade. You can get five firsts right away from OKC, just imagine how they will improve if they replace non shooting Giddey with Towns! But. I honestly believe that Suggs is more valuable for us than let say three late FRPs: he fits our defensive minded identity, he is an improving shooter, and he is a local guy.

5 firsts gets you Murray and more. Maybe even Markkanen. If not Markkanen then what about Murray, Caruso, and Vuc plus keep a first. (2 for Murray, 2 for Caruso and Vuc.)

Again, Suggs is on rookie contract, Murray will earn 28 mil per year. And honestly, I am not impressed with Murray as defender as I am impressed with Suggs. I am also not a fan of Murray personality. I am not so concentrate on number of picks, if we can get right combination of assets, it will be enough for me.

A PG who averages 2.3/1.9 AST/TO is a SG not a PG. Murray is 5.2/2.3 and his career numbers are always 2/1. Murray is also not making 28 till later and is trade able if things don’t work out. Suggs is cheap for one more year and then who knows what he costs. I agree it is about the combination of assets. I just think yours are not worth KAT.

[life_saver]

I wonder if Cavs would be willing to trade Garland at right price...they seem to be doing very well right now with Garland being injured. 2 Small guards in starting lineup hasn't been working for them...if Mitchell signs a long term contract, then I feel like they might be open to trade Garland. I won't mind trading Jaden in a trade package for Garland. Having a long term PG is quite critical

[winforlose]

KAT won't get 5 1sts. Those sorts of deals don't exist in the new CBA.

People won't like it but a deal I've thought is somewhat realistic following the season;

ATL trades; Dejounte Murray, Clint Capela, '24 ATL 1st (currently 9th), '24 SAC 1st (currently 21st)
ATL receives: Karl-Anthony Towns, '24 MIN 1st (currently 29th)

And then vice versa for us. There might be some additional things here or there, like some 2nds or young guy swaps, but that's the gist of it.

For Atlanta, they get the second star to pair with Trae while keeping a lot of their role players to still field a competent team. A starting lineup of, say, Young-Bogdanovic-Johnson-Okongwu-KAT is decently balanced and you could swap Hunter for Okongwu (moving Johnson back to the 4).

For the Wolves, we get a good, cost-controlled PG that should help to mitigate both Mike's eventual retirement and the scoring loss from Towns. We also move up in the draft to acquire a couple of young guys to help fill out the roster more along Ant/Jaden/Naz's timeline. I know this is considered a weak draft but that's more in terms of top end talent, there's a ton of guys that are interesting if you're not banking on them being franchise altering stars.

EDIT: I should mention Clint is an expiring next season that could also be moved either for extra value or, worst case, flat salary relief.

This deal is a non starter. The goal is to get better not give KAT away for free. Houston, NYK, off the top of my head have the picks and would pay them. The new CBA is gonna have very expensive players at every max. Karl will be costly at first, but in two years he will be well below the standard super max and around the 25-30% max. There is never a reason to trade to get worse, only better in a season like this.

[winforlose]

Pretend Houston wants Karl. Keep it simple and include Murray. Murray, Brooks, and Eason, for Karl to Houston, and Shake to the Hawks. Rockets need to send filler to Atlanta but not much and the deal works. Houston pays with picks for Murray and the deal gets done.

[DaMplsKid]

If we are trading Town to ALT the package has to start with

Bogdanovic and Hunter coming back. I would assume we would get at least 2 first as will. Which we might be able to move for a back up PG.

Conely,Ant,Jaden,Hunter,Rudy with Nazi, Bogdanovic, and NAW off the bench.

That starting 5 is even better defensively then we currently are. Hunter still stretches the floor for us and then our bench (outside of a backup PG) is deadly.

[shangrila]

KAT won't get 5 1sts. Those sorts of deals don't exist in the new CBA.

People won't like it but a deal I've thought is somewhat realistic following the season;

ATL trades; Dejounte Murray, Clint Capela, '24 ATL 1st (currently 9th), '24 SAC 1st (currently 21st)
ATL receives: Karl-Anthony Towns, '24 MIN 1st (currently 29th)

And then vice versa for us. There might be some additional things here or there, like some 2nds or young guy swaps, but that's the gist of it.

For Atlanta, they get the second star to pair with Trae while keeping a lot of their role players to still field a competent team. A starting lineup of, say, Young-Bogdanovic-Johnson-Okongwu-KAT is decently balanced and you could swap Hunter for Okongwu (moving Johnson back to the 4).

For the Wolves, we get a good, cost-controlled PG that should help to mitigate both Mike's eventual retirement and the scoring loss from Towns. We also move up in the draft to acquire a couple of young guys to help fill out the roster more along Ant/Jaden/Naz's timeline. I know this is considered a weak draft but that's more in terms of top end talent, there's a ton of guys that are interesting if you're not banking on them being franchise altering stars.

EDIT: I should mention Clint is an expiring next season that could also be moved either for extra value or, worst case, flat salary relief.

This deal is a non starter. The goal is to get better not give KAT away for free. Houston, NYK, off the top of my head have the picks and would pay them. The new CBA is gonna have very expensive players at every max. Karl will be costly at first, but in two years he will be well below the standard super max and around the 25-30% max. There is never a reason to trade to get worse, only better in a season like this.

If you think my deal is "giving KAT away for free" then any further conversation between us is a non-starter.

[cmoss84]

Would Detroit be willing to build a core around Cade, KAT, and Duren?

KAT and WMJ ($38M and change) for Ivey, Bojan, and Burks ($38M and change)?
I'm sure picks can be involved too---just not sure which ones...

[minimus]

5 firsts gets you Murray and more. Maybe even Markkanen. If not Markkanen then what about Murray, Caruso, and Vuc plus keep a first. (2 for Murray, 2 for Caruso and Vuc.)

Again, Suggs is on rookie contract, Murray will earn 28 mil per year. And honestly, I am not impressed with Murray as defender as I am impressed with Suggs. I am also not a fan of Murray personality. I am not so concentrate on number of picks, if we can get right combination of assets, it will be enough for me.

A PG who averages 2.3/1.9 AST/TO is a SG not a PG. Murray is 5.2/2.3 and his career numbers are always 2/1. Murray is also not making 28 till later and is trade able if things don’t work out. Suggs is cheap for one more year and then who knows what he costs. I agree it is about the combination of assets. I just think yours are not worth KAT.

As I said before, I want to get a combination Conley/Suggs, which is more than doable with Suggs on rookie contract. And it is not realistic with Murray making 28 mil per year.

An idea of Towns = five FRPs, IMO should not be dogma. For instance, we could get five picks from OKC, but I am sure we prefer to trade Towns in East. We might keep Towns this season and trade him before next deadline in 2025, but I ask myself, why other teams would help us to find a deal for balooned to 50 mil Towns contract? We can play the game and gamble, waiting other teams to outbid in order to get those five picks. But why other tems would do this, if they know that in 2024-25, we cant afford Gobert-Towns-Reid-McDaniels-Edwards?

Lets compare Gobert trade, UTA are in rebuilding, they could patiently wait, so MIN outbid others. Now, MIN have different situation as this deadline and 2024-25 season approaches: we are not in rebuilding mode, we need players, not picks in future. Every other GM in NBA knows our difficult financial situation, where our team from small market cant afford costs of current roster. Our owners name is not Steve Balmer, Lore and AR has been borrowing money from banks, and investor groups. So why other GMs would help us? And lastly, let say we got five FRPs, it is far from guaranteed that we get players that we want. If I were OKC, I would simply outbid any our offer if it is about a PG or stretch four such as Markannen, if I were Presti I would do this simply to improve OKC roster AND does not allow MIN to improve their roster. Thats why I expected any trade to be a kind of compromise. But let see, maybe I am too concerned about it.

[BlacJacMac]

Would Detroit be willing to build a core around Cade, KAT, and Duren?

KAT and WMJ ($38M and change) for Ivey, Bojan, and Burks ($38M and change)?
I'm sure picks can be involved too---just not sure which ones...

I don't see how 29 year-old KAT fits with 22 year old Cade and (barely) 20 year-old Duran.

You're paying a Supermax salary for a guy who likely will be on his next contract by the time Cade and Duran are ready.