ImageImageImage

Trade Talk (Part Five)

Moderators: Domejandro, Worm Guts, Calinks

Merc_Porto
General Manager
Posts: 9,941
And1: 3,540
Joined: Nov 21, 2013
   

Re: Trade Talk (Part Five) 

Post#1701 » by Merc_Porto » Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:37 am

Jedzz wrote:
mercgold3 wrote:
Jedzz wrote:Why on earth would we take those two back?


Forget those two. You are getting rid of Dlo contract here and ride with Rubio and Jmac. Even if you don't like it. That's the purpose...

We are not getting valuable assets back by trading Dlo. Maybe Blake Griffin, i can see that...


But you are still recreating the logjam problem as you know full well the Coaches will play one of or both Ntilikina and Dennis Jones Jr. It will once again create the problem of displacing the PGs you want playing in minutes and create more opportunities for these coaches to run with dual PGs. Which is partly to blame for Dlo/Rubio's issue this season already when you take our PGs and combine them with Culver/Edwards running point even when JMac isn't playing.

I actually like Ntilikina. He can play 3 positions out there. Great defender.

But i would rather get a power forward in such trade. Maybe with Culver involved or if is a top tier forward (Grant) i wouldn't mind to incluide Edwards.

Rubio / Jmac
Beasley / Edwards
McDaniels / Okogie
? / Vando
KAT / Naz

How do you see the rotation between Rubio, Dlo and Jmac?

Knowing that you really like Jmac and i can see why... And also knowing that Dlo is not really an off-ball player, neither is Rubio.
Jedzz
RealGM
Posts: 12,322
And1: 2,506
Joined: Oct 05, 2018

Re: Trade Talk (Part Five) 

Post#1702 » by Jedzz » Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:38 am

Slim Tubby wrote:It has nothing to do with the NYK players...the value is dumping Russell’s contract.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It does because this team will choose to play one or both of them which will continue the problem here.
Dual PG use
Point guards that can't shoot ending up in the corner out of the offense. Our team playing 4 on 5 offense and these players not being who you want cutting baseline or anything. Just standing there out of the offense.

These PGs cannot be trusted to shoot. Don't bring them here.

Plus any minutes they do get can decrease minutes for others that are better. JMac could use more not less. If Dlo is gone, we are totally screwed scoring wise if you displace JMac's minutes.

And why would they play them here?
Frank Ntilikina Rnd1 #8 pick.
Dennis Smith Jr. Rnd1 #9 pick.
100% chance this team displaces JMac's minutes to get these two guys on the court. The claim with be extra inches height, wingspan, defense BS. This team probably resigns one or both of them.
Jedzz
RealGM
Posts: 12,322
And1: 2,506
Joined: Oct 05, 2018

Re: Trade Talk (Part Five) 

Post#1703 » by Jedzz » Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:47 am

mercgold3 wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
mercgold3 wrote:
Forget those two. You are getting rid of Dlo contract here and ride with Rubio and Jmac. Even if you don't like it. That's the purpose...

We are not getting valuable assets back by trading Dlo. Maybe Blake Griffin, i can see that...


But you are still recreating the logjam problem as you know full well the Coaches will play one of or both Ntilikina and Dennis Jones Jr. It will once again create the problem of displacing the PGs you want playing in minutes and create more opportunities for these coaches to run with dual PGs. Which is partly to blame for Dlo/Rubio's issue this season already when you take our PGs and combine them with Culver/Edwards running point even when JMac isn't playing.

I actually like Ntilikina. He can play 3 positions out there. Great defender.

But i would rather get a power forward in such trade. Maybe with Culver involved or if is a top tier forward (Grant) i wouldn't mind to incluide Edwards.

Rubio / Jmac
Beasley / Edwards
McDaniels / Okogie
? / Vando
KAT / Naz

How do you see the rotation between Rubio, Dlo and Jmac?

Knowing that you really like Jmac and i can see why... And also knowing that Dlo is not really an off-ball player, neither is Rubio.


I do like the idea of adding a PF and throwing more in to get one if you have to. Still think it's a joke talking about moving Dlo and watching Kat push out.

On the Rubio, Dlo and Jmac dynamic if all stay it should be JMac sitting out until there is an injury. That bed was made when they traded for Rubio. Personally, and I know no one will agree with me on this, I would start JMac over both of them and force Rubio to sit or be traded. But I know this team absolutely never is going to choose this so it's got to be the other way around. JMac sits. He's youngest and they didn't pay him a dime. No reason at all they can't run Dlo 25 mins and Rubio 23 or flip that around depending on the opponent/matchup. Just don't play them together. It will be two different styles the opponent is forced to play with. JMac if filling in for one of them can try to match the style of the missing player or do his own thing.
User avatar
Domejandro
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Posts: 20,369
And1: 30,702
Joined: Jul 29, 2014

Re: Trade Talk (Part Five) 

Post#1704 » by Domejandro » Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:57 am

Jedzz wrote:
Slim Tubby wrote:It has nothing to do with the NYK players...the value is dumping Russell’s contract.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It does because this team will choose to play one or both of them which will continue the problem here.
Dual PG use
Point guards that can't shoot ending up in the corner out of the offense. Our team playing 4 on 5 offense and these players not being who you want cutting baseline or anything. Just standing there out of the offense.

These PGs cannot be trusted to shoot. Don't bring them here.

Plus any minutes they do get can decrease minutes for others that are better. JMac could use more not less. If Dlo is gone, we are totally screwed scoring wise if you displace JMac's minutes.

And why would they play them here?
Frank Ntilikina Rnd1 #8 pick.
Dennis Smith Jr. Rnd1 #9 pick.
100% chance this team displaces JMac's minutes to get these two guys on the court. The claim with be extra inches height, wingspan, defense BS. This team probably resigns one or both of them.

Their Draft positions are completely irrelevant in the context of this framework proposal. They were drafted four years ago, I do not know why you are even brining that up. The entire point is that they are expiring contracts, they don't play in New York either.

Why for Minnesota? Create a $17MM Traded-Player Exception, likely draft picks, and save $30,013,500 next season (alongside $31,377,750 the season after).

You could also send Jake Layman to New York (the have a TPE) and make the incoming TPE worth $20.5MM
Merc_Porto
General Manager
Posts: 9,941
And1: 3,540
Joined: Nov 21, 2013
   

Re: Trade Talk (Part Five) 

Post#1705 » by Merc_Porto » Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:59 am

Jedzz wrote:
mercgold3 wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
But you are still recreating the logjam problem as you know full well the Coaches will play one of or both Ntilikina and Dennis Jones Jr. It will once again create the problem of displacing the PGs you want playing in minutes and create more opportunities for these coaches to run with dual PGs. Which is partly to blame for Dlo/Rubio's issue this season already when you take our PGs and combine them with Culver/Edwards running point even when JMac isn't playing.

I actually like Ntilikina. He can play 3 positions out there. Great defender.

But i would rather get a power forward in such trade. Maybe with Culver involved or if is a top tier forward (Grant) i wouldn't mind to incluide Edwards.

Rubio / Jmac
Beasley / Edwards
McDaniels / Okogie
? / Vando
KAT / Naz

How do you see the rotation between Rubio, Dlo and Jmac?

Knowing that you really like Jmac and i can see why... And also knowing that Dlo is not really an off-ball player, neither is Rubio.


I do like the idea of adding a PF and throwing more in to get one if you have to. Still think it's a joke talking about moving Dlo and watching Kat push out.

On the Rubio, Dlo and Jmac dynamic if all stay it should be JMac sitting out until there is an injury. That bed was made when they traded for Rubio. Personally, and I know no one will agree with me on this, I would start JMac over both of them and force Rubio to sit or be traded. But I know this team absolutely never is going to choose this so it's got to be the other way around. JMac sits. He's youngest and they didn't pay him a dime.


I agree with the part that we made our own bed the minute we traded for Rubio. And i still don't get why we made that trade if this was the idea.

I really hope Jmac doesn't sit thought. The guy really deserves minutes and we can see he's only getting better by playing.

But is a tricky situation where the contracts play a big part and we always knew that when we got ourselves in this logman of guards.
Jedzz
RealGM
Posts: 12,322
And1: 2,506
Joined: Oct 05, 2018

Re: Trade Talk (Part Five) 

Post#1706 » by Jedzz » Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:30 am

Domejandro wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
Slim Tubby wrote:It has nothing to do with the NYK players...the value is dumping Russell’s contract.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It does because this team will choose to play one or both of them which will continue the problem here.
Dual PG use
Point guards that can't shoot ending up in the corner out of the offense. Our team playing 4 on 5 offense and these players not being who you want cutting baseline or anything. Just standing there out of the offense.

These PGs cannot be trusted to shoot. Don't bring them here.

Plus any minutes they do get can decrease minutes for others that are better. JMac could use more not less. If Dlo is gone, we are totally screwed scoring wise if you displace JMac's minutes.

And why would they play them here?
Frank Ntilikina Rnd1 #8 pick.
Dennis Smith Jr. Rnd1 #9 pick.
100% chance this team displaces JMac's minutes to get these two guys on the court. The claim with be extra inches height, wingspan, defense BS. This team probably resigns one or both of them.

Their Draft positions are completely irrelevant in the context of this framework proposal. They were drafted four years ago, I do not know why you are even brining that up. The entire point is that they are expiring contracts, they don't play in New York either.

Why for Minnesota? Create a $17MM Traded-Player Exception, likely draft picks, and save $30,013,500 next season (alongside $31,377,750 the season after).

You could also send Jake Layman to New York (the have a TPE) and make the incoming TPE worth $20.5MM


I get it. Sounds fine. Still, the reason to talk about what this team would do is because they won't go explaining this trade this way to fans, it will just be a trade made and here are the players we traded our max Dlo for. Then, for the rest of this season we will see these players played because they were both former FRPs. At the end of the year, at least one of them get resigned for whatever, 5Million or 6, something because he can be a trade asset type of excuse. I think the teams' history and now Rosas/Ryan histoy support this.

I also get that this opens up a Max slot here. Who we going to fill it with when the team likely loses more on a complete development season for Edwards/Culver? Who's coming in to join Towns and Beasley alone? Kyrie when he outstays his Nets welcome?
Shaka_Zulu
Starter
Posts: 2,098
And1: 2,873
Joined: Feb 11, 2018
   

Re: Trade Talk (Part Five) 

Post#1707 » by Shaka_Zulu » Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:14 pm

DowNY wrote:Would y’all do Obi Toppin, Kevin Knox, Frank Ntilikina, Mavs 1st rd pick this year and Mavs 1st rd pick (top 10 protected) in 2023 for D Russ?



Image





Image




The Knicks GM as soon as he OKs this deal:



Image
Shaka_Zulu
Starter
Posts: 2,098
And1: 2,873
Joined: Feb 11, 2018
   

Re: Trade Talk (Part Five) 

Post#1708 » by Shaka_Zulu » Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:20 pm

Domejandro wrote:I think a potential avenue could be something around Frank Ntilikina and Dennis Smith Jr. for D'Angelo Russell. Could probably grease a pick or two out of the deal.



Now this is just pushing it. This is god awful, why would you want this.
Worm Guts
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Posts: 27,454
And1: 12,322
Joined: Dec 27, 2003
     

Re: Trade Talk (Part Five) 

Post#1709 » by Worm Guts » Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:23 pm

Shaka_Zulu wrote:
Domejandro wrote:I think a potential avenue could be something around Frank Ntilikina and Dennis Smith Jr. for D'Angelo Russell. Could probably grease a pick or two out of the deal.



Now this is just pushing it. This is god awful, why would you want this.


I don't even know if Russell has positive value. It might be beneficial to just dump his contract.
Shaka_Zulu
Starter
Posts: 2,098
And1: 2,873
Joined: Feb 11, 2018
   

Re: Trade Talk (Part Five) 

Post#1710 » by Shaka_Zulu » Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:31 pm

I dont think we reached the stage of dump for absolute Non nba minutes level garbage at all. Which that package is.

He has little to limited value, but it has not reached that nuclear level bad whatsoever. You can defenitely find decent rotational options and expirings for him, in a team thats desperate for a scoring PG, and are bottom of the pile in guard scoring etc. And if they have a decent coach that reign in the hero ball antics and run decent plays/screens for him like Nets did, could be quite serviceable for them.



I defenitely get the need to moving on from if possible, but not going to the length of dumping for absolute garbage. Yeah he has big contract, but why would we be in a hurry to dumping for? (especially when he has like 3-4 games with Kat tops, play with Kat and his value/leauge perception will improve) Are we looking to compete for playoff spot? (lol) Are we suddenly some kind of free agency destination thats in the sweep stakes for the 2021 FA?


Some patience, and not just run and accept the first hot garbage offered to you. Yes a no defense ball stopping scoring PG, not fun for your winning chances. But still a talented enough scoring PG that will have desperate suitors in this score/shoot first heavy league, if you wait for the right package. Things move fast in this league, and needs change on a dime in couple of months in several organisations.
Merc_Porto
General Manager
Posts: 9,941
And1: 3,540
Joined: Nov 21, 2013
   

Re: Trade Talk (Part Five) 

Post#1711 » by Merc_Porto » Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:51 pm

We are not a free agency destination for sure but looking back at last free agency...

Why in the world Houston can get Wood in a bargain deal or Detroit can get Grant?

And those teams are bad. We are not a free agency destination for the top tier players but we can make smart moves like this examples.

And how good would be to have Wood or Grant right now?

On top of this we had Johnson and #17 to make a S&T (that's what happend in both cases)
Worm Guts
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Posts: 27,454
And1: 12,322
Joined: Dec 27, 2003
     

Re: Trade Talk (Part Five) 

Post#1712 » by Worm Guts » Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:55 pm

Shaka_Zulu wrote:I dont think we reached the stage of dump for absolute Non nba minutes level garbage at all. Which that package is.

He has little to limited value, but it has not reached that nuclear level bad whatsoever. You can defenitely find decent rotational options and expirings for him, in a team thats desperate for a scoring PG, and are bottom of the pile in guard scoring etc. And if they have a decent coach that reign in the hero ball antics and run decent plays/screens for him like Nets did, could be quite serviceable for them.



I defenitely get the need to moving on from if possible, but not going to the length of dumping for absolute garbage. Yeah he has big contract, but why would we be in a hurry to dumping for? (especially when he has like 3-4 games with Kat tops, play with Kat and his value/leauge perception will improve) Are we looking to compete for playoff spot? (lol) Are we suddenly some kind of free agency destination thats in the sweep stakes for the 2021 FA?


Some patience, and not just run and accept the first hot garbage offered to you. Yes a no defense ball stopping scoring PG, not fun for your winning chances. But still a talented enough scoring PG that will have desperate suitors in this score/shoot first heavy league, if you wait for the right package. Things move fast in this league, and needs change on a dime in couple of months in several organisations.


Dumping him wouldn't be about becoming a free agent destination, but it does give us flexibility and helps move on from someone who we feel obligated to play even if he's not helping us win.
Maybe we should have some patience, but I right now I would rather not have Russell on the team.
Jedzz
RealGM
Posts: 12,322
And1: 2,506
Joined: Oct 05, 2018

Re: Trade Talk (Part Five) 

Post#1713 » by Jedzz » Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:45 pm

Worm Guts wrote:
Shaka_Zulu wrote:
Domejandro wrote:I think a potential avenue could be something around Frank Ntilikina and Dennis Smith Jr. for D'Angelo Russell. Could probably grease a pick or two out of the deal.



Now this is just pushing it. This is god awful, why would you want this.


I don't even know if Russell has positive value. It might be beneficial to just dump his contract.


I can't believe all it took for these knee jerk Dlo takes was a game agains a 5-11 Pelicans team. I guess it was more than that. It probably all started with the Rubio trade and Edwards selection. Snowballed with classic internal created strife by coaching decisions. But still, there was a way to survive this and it's not this.

Answer this one question. Do you want Towns traded before next season? There is no discussing this without discussing that.
Worm Guts
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Posts: 27,454
And1: 12,322
Joined: Dec 27, 2003
     

Re: Trade Talk (Part Five) 

Post#1714 » by Worm Guts » Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:50 pm

Jedzz wrote:
Worm Guts wrote:
Shaka_Zulu wrote:

Now this is just pushing it. This is god awful, why would you want this.


I don't even know if Russell has positive value. It might be beneficial to just dump his contract.


I can't believe all it took for these knee jerk Dlo takes was a game agains a 5-11 Pelicans team. I guess it was more than that. It probably all started with the Rubio trade and Edwards selection. Snowballed with classic internal created strife by coaching decisions. But still, there was a way to survive this and it's not this.

Answer this one question. Do you want Towns traded before next season? There is no discussing this without discussing that.


My opinion isn't based on the Pelicans game, it's based on the entire season. And if the Timberwolves are the worst team in the West this year, trading Towns is something that's probably on the table no matter what else we do.
Jedzz
RealGM
Posts: 12,322
And1: 2,506
Joined: Oct 05, 2018

Re: Trade Talk (Part Five) 

Post#1715 » by Jedzz » Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:58 pm

Worm Guts wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
Worm Guts wrote:
I don't even know if Russell has positive value. It might be beneficial to just dump his contract.


I can't believe all it took for these knee jerk Dlo takes was a game agains a 5-11 Pelicans team. I guess it was more than that. It probably all started with the Rubio trade and Edwards selection. Snowballed with classic internal created strife by coaching decisions. But still, there was a way to survive this and it's not this.

Answer this one question. Do you want Towns traded before next season? There is no discussing this without discussing that.


My opinion isn't based on the Pelicans game, it's based on the entire season. And if the Timberwolves are the worst team in the West this year, trading Towns is something that's probably on the table no matter what else we do.


That' what I figured. You and others want to move Towns. I see.

This didn't have to go down like this of course. This season didn't have to be blown up like this. But this is the Timberwolves...way, and the fans lean into it with them every year.

So what, so now the team continues it's farming help for Warrrors and sends Towns there and we find some third team guppy to take on Dlo? Or do Warriors take them both back and send us all their trash including Wiggnis back? Won't a few be so happy to get there 2021 pick back.

Well, back to a team with one decent shooter. Beasely can tank commander. Won't he be happy.
Shaka_Zulu
Starter
Posts: 2,098
And1: 2,873
Joined: Feb 11, 2018
   

Re: Trade Talk (Part Five) 

Post#1716 » by Shaka_Zulu » Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:09 pm

I will probably stop supporting this team if they trade away Towns.*



Friggin dumpster fire with zero top level player like him around to make it bearable.


*I dont count it if he forces his way out, but he cant, with 4-5 year contract.
Worm Guts
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Posts: 27,454
And1: 12,322
Joined: Dec 27, 2003
     

Re: Trade Talk (Part Five) 

Post#1717 » by Worm Guts » Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:12 pm

Jedzz wrote:
Worm Guts wrote:
Jedzz wrote:
I can't believe all it took for these knee jerk Dlo takes was a game agains a 5-11 Pelicans team. I guess it was more than that. It probably all started with the Rubio trade and Edwards selection. Snowballed with classic internal created strife by coaching decisions. But still, there was a way to survive this and it's not this.

Answer this one question. Do you want Towns traded before next season? There is no discussing this without discussing that.


My opinion isn't based on the Pelicans game, it's based on the entire season. And if the Timberwolves are the worst team in the West this year, trading Towns is something that's probably on the table no matter what else we do.


That' what I figured. You and others want to move Towns. I see.

This didn't have to go down like this of course. This season didn't have to be blown up like this. But this is the Timberwolves...way, and the fans lean into it with them every year.

So what, so now the team continues it's farming help for Warrrors and sends Towns there and we find some third team guppy to take on Dlo? Or do Warriors take them both back and send us all their trash including Wiggnis back? Won't a few be so happy to get there 2021 pick back.

Well, back to a team with one decent shooter. Beasely can tank commander. Won't he be happy.


Who said I wanted to move on from Towns. I'm just saying that's where we end up if we keep going down this path. We're not going to win with DLo as our 2nd best player, and if Towns wants out if we trade DLo then we don't have any realistic options for success.
Merc_Porto
General Manager
Posts: 9,941
And1: 3,540
Joined: Nov 21, 2013
   

Re: Trade Talk (Part Five) 

Post#1718 » by Merc_Porto » Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:28 pm

And is not like this wasn't predictable. Has nothing to do with the 15 games we played so far. Not even the game against the Pelicans.

Dlo is a bad starting PG for a team that is trying to win. Especially earning $30M per season. His role shouldn't be the 2nd or even the 3rd most important player on any team.

His value is low and is not because we are playing bad basketball. His value is low because he's not that good. Never was. And every team he was in knows that as well. And like so many other players (Wiggins) he was massive overpaid.

Also, is a dangerous spot to be in if trading Dlo means we have to deal KAT because of their bff status. I really hope KAT is smarter than this because after all. Is his carrer...

If we have the chance to dump such a bad contract for a couple of expirings you do it without thinking twice. We have Rubio and Jmac to run the team.
jayu70
RealGM
Posts: 20,458
And1: 13,001
Joined: Mar 11, 2014
   

Re: Trade Talk (Part Five) 

Post#1719 » by jayu70 » Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:27 pm

mercgold3 wrote:Even before this game...

KAT for Hunter, Capela and John Collins

Give me three quality guys that would fit this roster so well. They bring defense, size, quality... Ride with Edwards and see if he can be the guy moving forward. I even would be in favor to keep Dlo as PG with a lineup of...

Dlo
Edwards
Hunter
Collins
Capela

Well balanced starting five, way better than anything we have right now.

I don't see the Hawks giving up 3 starters for Towns, two of which are defenders. Trae needs defense around him. Having a deficient PG and adding a defensive deficient Center in Towns isn't a move for the Hawks.
Merc_Porto
General Manager
Posts: 9,941
And1: 3,540
Joined: Nov 21, 2013
   

Re: Trade Talk (Part Five) 

Post#1720 » by Merc_Porto » Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:38 pm

jayu70 wrote:I don't see the Hawks giving up 3 starters for Towns, two of which are defenders. Trae needs defense around him. Having a deficient PG and adding a defensive deficient Center in Towns isn't a move for the Hawks.


I understand that point of view. And makes sense.

Return to Minnesota Timberwolves