Aaron Gordon to the Timberpups?

[minimus]

We have seen how players that don’t get covered at the line hurt us offensively, when defenders stay back and remove lanes to the hoop. This is especially important from our PF, because it allows opponents to play a good big who doesn’t have range to defend to the perimeter. We simply can’t neuter the biggest advantage KAT’s gives us - mismatches - by creating options for opposing coaches. Our PF needs to be a credible three point shooter, and Gordon is not.

This statement is not accurate, because it is incomplete. Our PF needs to be a dynamic player in offense. He either should be able to shoot 3s or slash/finish at rim/pass/rebound.

I think we’ll just have to disagree.

We had slashers who couldn’t hit three’s at the beginning of last season. Heck, Wiggins is a better three point shooter and an even more athletic slasher - and both have inadequate handles. But we saw without the three point shooting, from him and others, the defenses just packed down after two weeks, and got rid of his lanes to the basket.

I think he needs to shoot three’s, and be able to run. A perfect compliment would be able to defend, and that’s what we should search for. I want to see more games where Rudy Gobert gets pulled out to defend to the three point line, because both our PF and C can shoot three’s.

Who were those slashers? RoCo who can't dribble and pass? Graham? Teague? Napier? Just to be clear, to make Wiggins efficient as ballhandler we had to run that high pnr, so he could literally play 3x3 basketball and be able to finish at rim. We didn't have even one above average slasher. And for many years we don't have PF who can finish at rim and run in transition. Dieng, Gibson, Bjelica, Saric, RoCo/Graham. Can we finally have a PF who can catch alley oops and finish?

If we speak about Wiggins and Gordon roles I agree that Gordon should not be primary ballhandler nor scorer. Wiggins contract suggests that Andrew should be a main option at least in offense, while he is not. Gordon at 18mil and 16mil is a complimentary player, and I'm fine with it.

Having a lineup where all five players are shooting well from 3pt is a luxury and not always necessary for championship. See MIA example, Butler is one of the worst shooters in NBA, but Spoelstra played him and Bam (complete non shooter from 3pt) together. The context, system matters. Jae Crowder was shooting 29% from 3pt line with MEM, but 44% with MIA.

[Slim Tubby]

Wait - who is this “Aaron Gordon” and how come I’ve never heard of him?

Wasn’t he the guy that shot Alexander Hamilton in a duel?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[shrink]

Wait - who is this “Aaron Gordon” and how come I’ve never heard of him?

Wasn’t he the guy that shot Alexander Hamilton in a duel?

Drop some knowledge!

[Jedzz]

We have seen how players that don’t get covered at the line hurt us offensively, when defenders stay back and remove lanes to the hoop. This is especially important from our PF, because it allows opponents to play a good big who doesn’t have range to defend to the perimeter. We simply can’t neuter the biggest advantage KAT’s gives us - mismatches - by creating options for opposing coaches. Our PF needs to be a credible three point shooter, and Gordon is not.

This statement is not accurate, because it is incomplete. Our PF needs to be a dynamic player in offense. He either should be able to shoot 3s or slash/finish at rim/pass/rebound.

I think we’ll just have to disagree.

We had slashers who couldn’t hit three’s at the beginning of last season. Heck, Wiggins is a better three point shooter and an even more athletic slasher - and both have inadequate handles. But we saw without the three point shooting, from him and others, the defenses just packed down after two weeks, and got rid of his lanes to the basket.

I think he needs to shoot three’s, and be able to run. A perfect compliment would be able to defend, and that’s what we should search for. I want to see more games where Rudy Gobert gets pulled out to defend to the three point line, because both our PF and C can shoot three’s.

Obi?

[UnFadeable21]

Orlando Magic send Aaron Gordon to the Timberwolves

Minnesota sends #17, expiring James Johnson and Omari Spellman.

Why for Orlando:

Magic would have picks 15, 17, 45

Would also clear out $40 million of expiring cap space for 2021 free agency.

Fourmier 17 million
Johnson 16 million
Berch 3 million
Ennis 2 million
Spellman 2 million


Why for Minnesota:

Wolves need to start winning the next two seasons or Kat is gone and this franchise is done.

Wolves get starting power forward same age as KAT and DLo.

Gordon avg 14-8-4 and above average defender. Can switch on defense 2 through 5. Shot 30% and 35% from 2 last two seasons.

[shrink]

This statement is not accurate, because it is incomplete. Our PF needs to be a dynamic player in offense. He either should be able to shoot 3s or slash/finish at rim/pass/rebound.

I think we’ll just have to disagree.

We had slashers who couldn’t hit three’s at the beginning of last season. Heck, Wiggins is a better three point shooter and an even more athletic slasher - and both have inadequate handles. But we saw without the three point shooting, from him and others, the defenses just packed down after two weeks, and got rid of his lanes to the basket.

I think he needs to shoot three’s, and be able to run. A perfect compliment would be able to defend, and that’s what we should search for. I want to see more games where Rudy Gobert gets pulled out to defend to the three point line, because both our PF and C can shoot three’s.

Who were those slashers? RoCo who can't dribble and pass? Graham? Teague? Napier? Just to be clear, to make Wiggins efficient as ballhandler we had to run that high pnr, so he could literally play 3x3 basketball and be able to finish at rim. We didn't have even one above average slasher. And for many years we don't have PF who can finish at rim and run in transition. Dieng, Gibson, Bjelica, Saric, RoCo/Graham. Can we finally have a PF who can catch alley oops and finish?

If we speak about Wiggins and Gordon roles I agree that Gordon should not be primary ballhandler nor scorer. Wiggins contract suggests that Andrew should be a main option at least in offense, while he is not. Gordon at 18mil and 16mil is a complimentary player, and I'm fine with it.

Having a lineup where all five players are shooting well from 3pt is a luxury and not always necessary for championship. See MIA example, Butler is one of the worst shooters in NBA, but Spoelstra played him and Bam (complete non shooter from 3pt) together. The context, system matters. Jae Crowder was shooting 29% from 3pt line with MEM, but 44% with MIA.

I was thinking Wiggins and Okogie, but in the beginning of the season, we hoped for more.

Actually, Wiggins and Gordon remind me of one another as slashers. Both have the athleticism to get by their man, both have handles you wish were better, and both aren’t as good at finishing at the rim as you would hope, because both seem to avoid contact.

Five players shooting well from the three point line is a luxury, but I just ask that you have players that aren’t bad at it, so they must be guarded out to the line. We remember the five-on-four when Rubio was used as a three point shooter.

Moreover, I don’t think MIN specifically needs five good three-point shooters, but their PF better be one. With Gordon being well below average, Utah last year wouldn’t have any problem switching their PF to defend Towns, and keep Gobert back towards the rim, waiting for Aaron Gordon to drive. Last year, to stay on the floor, Gobert had to play KAT man-to-man. MIN has a grand total of one mismatch advantage, and that is finding a big that can defend KAT. If the team has two bigs that need to be defended out to the three point line, it prevents many coaches from being able to keep their big but immobile center on the floor.

[UnFadeable21]

I think we’ll just have to disagree.

We had slashers who couldn’t hit three’s at the beginning of last season. Heck, Wiggins is a better three point shooter and an even more athletic slasher - and both have inadequate handles. But we saw without the three point shooting, from him and others, the defenses just packed down after two weeks, and got rid of his lanes to the basket.

I think he needs to shoot three’s, and be able to run. A perfect compliment would be able to defend, and that’s what we should search for. I want to see more games where Rudy Gobert gets pulled out to defend to the three point line, because both our PF and C can shoot three’s.

Who were those slashers? RoCo who can't dribble and pass? Graham? Teague? Napier? Just to be clear, to make Wiggins efficient as ballhandler we had to run that high pnr, so he could literally play 3x3 basketball and be able to finish at rim. We didn't have even one above average slasher. And for many years we don't have PF who can finish at rim and run in transition. Dieng, Gibson, Bjelica, Saric, RoCo/Graham. Can we finally have a PF who can catch alley oops and finish?

If we speak about Wiggins and Gordon roles I agree that Gordon should not be primary ballhandler nor scorer. Wiggins contract suggests that Andrew should be a main option at least in offense, while he is not. Gordon at 18mil and 16mil is a complimentary player, and I'm fine with it.

Having a lineup where all five players are shooting well from 3pt is a luxury and not always necessary for championship. See MIA example, Butler is one of the worst shooters in NBA, but Spoelstra played him and Bam (complete non shooter from 3pt) together. The context, system matters. Jae Crowder was shooting 29% from 3pt line with MEM, but 44% with MIA.

I was thinking Wiggins and Okogie, but in the beginning of the season, we hoped for more.

Actually, Wiggins and Gordon remind me of one another as slashers. Both have the athleticism to get by their man, both have handles you wish were better, and both aren’t as good at finishing at the rim as you would hope, because both seem to avoid contact.

Five players shooting well from the three point line is a luxury, but I just ask that you have players that aren’t bad at it, so they must be guarded out to the line. We remember the five-on-four when Rubio was used as a three point shooter.

Moreover, I don’t think MIN specifically needs five good three-point shooters, but their PF better be one. With Gordon being well below average, Utah last year wouldn’t have any problem switching their PF to defend Towns, and keep Gobert back towards the rim, waiting for Aaron Gordon to drive. Last year, to stay on the floor, Gobert had to play KAT man-to-man. MIN has a grand total of one mismatch advantage, and that is finding a big that can defend KAT. If the team has two bigs that need to be defended out to the three point line, it prevents many coaches from being able to keep their big but immobile center on the floor.

Shrink, we need a starting power forward who can rebound, defend, and be a threat to score. Gordon can be a better version of Jordan Bell for the Wolves who could defend but couldn’t score at all.

As for the Gobert example. It worked the first game we played Utah having Towns stand at the 3pt line and drawing Gobert at the paint.

The next two games, Quin Snyder adjusted and we got smoked. Towns didn’t shot any free throws in a game and for the first time in his career.

He doesn’t draw any fouls on Gobert when he’s standing on the perimeter all the time.

[shrink]

As I recall, In the first game the Jazz kept Gobert down low, and Towns torched them from the three point line, going like 8-for-13 in. Wolves win. The next game, Snyder had Gobert play Towns man-to-man, perhaps the first time he’s done that since he joined the NBA. To Gobert’s credit, he played it pretty well.

This is the big advantage Towns brings. Gobert is one of the best EVER at altering shots underneath the basket, but Towns shooting forced Snyder to completely change what they do. This would not happen if Gordon was the PF and not Covington, because RoCo also needs to be covered with a big, out to the three point line.

[zDank]

As I recall, In the first game the Jazz kept Gobert down low, and Towns torched them from the three point line, going like 8-for-13 in. Wolves win. The next game, Snyder had Gobert play Towns man-to-man, perhaps the first time he’s done that since he joined the NBA. To Gobert’s credit, he played it pretty well.

This is the big advantage Towns brings. Gobert is one of the best EVER at altering shots underneath the basket, but Towns shooting forced Snyder to completely change what they do. This would not happen if Gordon was the PF and not Covington, because RoCo also needs to be covered with a big, out to the three point line.

Or was he able to make that adjustment in the second game because he realized no one on our team was a threat to slash or rebound so he didn’t have to keep gobert in the paint. If what you wanted to happen (Rudy on the perimeter) happened in the second game why didn’t we win?

Also while Gordon isn’t an elite level shooter he did shoot 38% on right corner threes so if opposing teams wanna sag off and give him that shot I’ll settle for those odds all day. And unlike a guy like say pj tucker (who has made a living off that shot) if you close out sloppy on Gordon he will blow past you and put someone on a poster.

[UnFadeable21]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

About damn time!!!

[minimus]

Read on Twitter

About damn time!!!

I am big fan of trading #17 and JJ for Gordon. But I truly believe that it should not be a plan A. Plan A should be getting a star, such as Simmons. Gordon trade in the worst case scenario is a complimentary move.

[UnFadeable21]

Read on Twitter

About damn time!!!

I am big fan of trading #17 and JJ for Gordon. But I truly believe that it should not be a plan A. Plan A should be getting a star, such as Simmons. Gordon trade in the worst case scenario is a complimentary move.

Simmons is designing the Sixers new jerseys. He’s not getting traded with the new coach and GM in year 1.

Shams reporter Booker isn’t being moved. Wizards GM was on Lowe Post and said Washington is gonna give Wall and Beal one more go together so he’s unavailable too.

Our 3rd star is who we pick at 1 overall. Gordon is gonna come and be a high level role player here for us. Defense, slamming and rebound.

[Dewey]

Gordon...
Position of dire need? Check
Fits timeline for those need that? Check
Fits system? Check
Fits the role? Check
Available? Check

Ya he hasn’t reached the level of play that was hoped but he is still a Very capable role player

[minimus]

Gordon...
Position of dire need? Check
Fits timeline for those need that? Check
Fits system? Check
Fits the role? Check
Available? Check

Ya he hasn’t reached the level of play that was hoped but he is still a Very capable role player

I agree with you. I am just saying that should go for a star, before we trade for Gordon. I wish this draft has a wing in top10 with Tatum potential. We could draft him with our #1 pick and trade for Gordon. The only issue I have with Gordon is that he has only two years of contract remaining. If we trade for him, and use next season as development year it will be only one year of remaining contract.

[minimus]

I'd trade for Gordon in a heartbeat if

* - I am sure that we can fill SF position with better talent then Layman+Culver+Okogie
* - Miles Bridge can play SF
* - if Okoro can shoot
* - if Patrick Williams, Woodard and Jaden McDaniels were not so young and raw
* - if Gordon+Josh Green is a solid starting wing combo

[shrink]

Who were those slashers? RoCo who can't dribble and pass? Graham? Teague? Napier? Just to be clear, to make Wiggins efficient as ballhandler we had to run that high pnr, so he could literally play 3x3 basketball and be able to finish at rim. We didn't have even one above average slasher. And for many years we don't have PF who can finish at rim and run in transition. Dieng, Gibson, Bjelica, Saric, RoCo/Graham. Can we finally have a PF who can catch alley oops and finish?

If we speak about Wiggins and Gordon roles I agree that Gordon should not be primary ballhandler nor scorer. Wiggins contract suggests that Andrew should be a main option at least in offense, while he is not. Gordon at 18mil and 16mil is a complimentary player, and I'm fine with it.

Having a lineup where all five players are shooting well from 3pt is a luxury and not always necessary for championship. See MIA example, Butler is one of the worst shooters in NBA, but Spoelstra played him and Bam (complete non shooter from 3pt) together. The context, system matters. Jae Crowder was shooting 29% from 3pt line with MEM, but 44% with MIA.

I was thinking Wiggins and Okogie, but in the beginning of the season, we hoped for more.

Actually, Wiggins and Gordon remind me of one another as slashers. Both have the athleticism to get by their man, both have handles you wish were better, and both aren’t as good at finishing at the rim as you would hope, because both seem to avoid contact.

Five players shooting well from the three point line is a luxury, but I just ask that you have players that aren’t bad at it, so they must be guarded out to the line. We remember the five-on-four when Rubio was used as a three point shooter.

Moreover, I don’t think MIN specifically needs five good three-point shooters, but their PF better be one. With Gordon being well below average, Utah last year wouldn’t have any problem switching their PF to defend Towns, and keep Gobert back towards the rim, waiting for Aaron Gordon to drive. Last year, to stay on the floor, Gobert had to play KAT man-to-man. MIN has a grand total of one mismatch advantage, and that is finding a big that can defend KAT. If the team has two bigs that need to be defended out to the three point line, it prevents many coaches from being able to keep their big but immobile center on the floor.

Shrink, we need a starting power forward who can rebound, defend, and be a threat to score. Gordon can be a better version of Jordan Bell for the Wolves who could defend but couldn’t score at all.

As for the Gobert example. It worked the first game we played Utah having Towns stand at the 3pt line and drawing Gobert at the paint.

The next two games, Quin Snyder adjusted and we got smoked. Towns didn’t shot any free throws in a game and for the first time in his career.

He doesn’t draw any fouls on Gobert when he’s standing on the perimeter all the time.

The point wasn’t was whether Utah was successful. The point was that it forced Quin Snyder to completely change his defense, forcing one of the NBA’s best players under the basket to go play man-to-man. Statistics show that Gobert is one of the best players in NBA history of altering shots at the basket - and yet the mismatch created using Towns and RoCo as threats at the three point line forced Snyder to adjust to the Wolves. This doesn’t happen if you replace RoCo with Gordon, who is not a threat at the three point line.

If people are saying, “Gordon is better than what we have now” I don’t disagree. We have nothing now. But if you choose Gordon over other options, I think we can all agree that we are diminishing Towns biggest attribute that helps the team - mismatches that spread the floor, and pull out bigs. I have more faith in saying, “KAT, try to rebound more,” than saying, “Aaron, try to shoot a higher percentage of three’s, so you get guarded out there.”

I don’t think I’m asking a lot here. I think many, perhaps most, SF/PFs can hit enough three’s to get defended at the rim. Gordon is not one of them.

[Slim Tubby]

It’s been discussed and beaten to a pulp on here but I think the consensus is that #17 and Johnson is worth the gamble on Gordon and I would agree.

With that said, how would we feel if Saddiq Bey or Tyrell Terry fell to #17? Personally, I’d rather have Bey or Terry added to this roster long term than Gordon.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[shrink]

It’s been discussed and beaten to a pulp on here but I think the consensus is that #17 and Johnson is worth the gamble on Gordon and I would agree.

With that said, how would we feel if Saddiq Bey or Tyrell Terry fell to #17? Personally, I’d rather have Bey or Terry added to this roster long term than Gordon.

And to be clear, while I don’t like Gordon’s fit, I agree that if the price is around the #17, I’m ok with that, if there isn’t a very nice prospect sitting there. Exactly what Slim Tubby has said - that’s the right price.

[Dewey]

It’s been discussed and beaten to a pulp on here but I think the consensus is that #17 and Johnson is worth the gamble on Gordon and I would agree.

With that said, how would we feel if Saddiq Bey or Tyrell Terry fell to #17? Personally, I’d rather have Bey or Terry added to this roster long term than Gordon.

And to be clear, while I don’t like Gordon’s fit, I agree that if the price is around the #17, I’m ok with that, if there isn’t a very nice prospect sitting there. Exactly what Slim Tubby has said - that’s the right price.

#15/Gordon <<>> #17/#33/JJ/Okogie... Saddiq Bey at 15

DLo/Edwards/Bey/Gordon/KAT
Or
Ball/DLo/Bey/Gordon/KAT

Depth...
McL/Culver/Layman/Hermangomez/Reid

[Nyce_1]

Whats the story on Culver; how did he look as a rookie?

17 & Johnson won't cut it for Orlando. Trading Gordon is not a dump of any sorts; especially with Issac out for the year. It'll be to move up to get a player we REALLY like or for a young player to try and develop. Highly doubt #1 is even considered, so I'd guesstimate it's for latter.