Trade Talk (Part Thirteen): 2023 Offseason Edition

[KGdaBom]

I didn't mention defense.

So, I suspect I was correct in you not reading my post.

I read your post top to bottom. What I found funny was if KAT was just an outside player he would have been a perfect fit with Rudy, but since he's also good in close than he's a bad fit with Rudy.

See, I don't believe that because I never said he would be a good fit with Rudy respective of any specific skill set, just that Rudy takes away half his game or more where it isn't maximized. If KAT wasn't good on the inside it doesn't mean he would fit with Rudy, it would just mean he was less talented. Rudy doesn't just bog down KAT btw, he messed with ANT's game as well. The problem lies in Rudy not having any perimeter skills at all, not that KAT isn't versatile enough to come out beyond the arch. We sold the farm for a guy that is hard to build around. You are just projecting your beliefs by responding to things I didn't say because you wanted me to have said them.

WOW. So money. You made a point about him having inside skills hence not a good fit with Gobert. Utah sure built well around him. He might have lost a step. He was an incredible player in Utah.

[SO_MONEY]

I read your post top to bottom. What I found funny was if KAT was just an outside player he would have been a perfect fit with Rudy, but since he's also good in close than he's a bad fit with Rudy.

See, I don't believe that because I never said he would be a good fit with Rudy respective of any specific skill set, just that Rudy takes away half his game or more where it isn't maximized. If KAT wasn't good on the inside it doesn't mean he would fit with Rudy, it would just mean he was less talented. Rudy doesn't just bog down KAT btw, he messed with ANT's game as well. The problem lies in Rudy not having any perimeter skills at all, not that KAT isn't versatile enough to come out beyond the arch. We sold the farm for a guy that is hard to build around. You are just projecting your beliefs by responding to things I didn't say because you wanted me to have said them.

WOW. So money. You made a point about him having inside skills hence not a good fit with Gobert. Utah sure built well around him. He might have lost a step. He was an incredible player in Utah.

WOW. lol. So shocking someone might think what I do.

C'mon.

He isn't a good fit with Rudy... AND... this is backtracking on your misrepresentation of my post, that isn't lost on me btw. I don't care to debate your opinion it doesn't matter what you think (to me) and it isn't important enough to keep telling me things I disagree with if you value you time.

KAT did change the game though...

[KGdaBom]

See, I don't believe that because I never said he would be a good fit with Rudy respective of any specific skill set, just that Rudy takes away half his game or more where it isn't maximized. If KAT wasn't good on the inside it doesn't mean he would fit with Rudy, it would just mean he was less talented. Rudy doesn't just bog down KAT btw, he messed with ANT's game as well. The problem lies in Rudy not having any perimeter skills at all, not that KAT isn't versatile enough to come out beyond the arch. We sold the farm for a guy that is hard to build around. You are just projecting your beliefs by responding to things I didn't say because you wanted me to have said them.

WOW. So money. You made a point about him having inside skills hence not a good fit with Gobert. Utah sure built well around him. He might have lost a step. He was an incredible player in Utah.

WOW. lol. So shocking someone might think what I do.

C'mon.

He isn't a good fit with Rudy... AND... this is backtracking on your misrepresentation of my post, that isn't lost on me btw. I don't care to debate your opinion it doesn't matter what you think (to me) and it isn't important enough to keep telling me things I disagree with if you value you time.

KAT did change the game though...

According to you is there any PF in the NBA that is a good fit with Rudy Gobert? Is there any center in the NBA that is a good fit with KAT?

[SO_MONEY]

WOW. So money. You made a point about him having inside skills hence not a good fit with Gobert. Utah sure built well around him. He might have lost a step. He was an incredible player in Utah.

WOW. lol. So shocking someone might think what I do.

C'mon.

He isn't a good fit with Rudy... AND... this is backtracking on your misrepresentation of my post, that isn't lost on me btw. I don't care to debate your opinion it doesn't matter what you think (to me) and it isn't important enough to keep telling me things I disagree with if you value you time.

KAT did change the game though...

According to you is there any PF in the NBA that is a good fit with Rudy Gobert? Is there any center in the NBA that is a good fit with KAT?

There are probably PFs who are limited where Rudy won't really get in their way but they are not going to be as talented as KAT and there a plenty of PFs that would fit with KAT., but probably not any Centers per se... perhaps a 4/5. Two centers just isn't going to work it takes skill off the court in most cases. KAT is subjectively a top 5 center, but closer to an average PF than closer to top 5. It takes away our positional advantage based on scarcity. It is ill-advised.

[KGdaBom]

WOW. lol. So shocking someone might think what I do.

C'mon.

He isn't a good fit with Rudy... AND... this is backtracking on your misrepresentation of my post, that isn't lost on me btw. I don't care to debate your opinion it doesn't matter what you think (to me) and it isn't important enough to keep telling me things I disagree with if you value you time.

KAT did change the game though...

According to you is there any PF in the NBA that is a good fit with Rudy Gobert? Is there any center in the NBA that is a good fit with KAT?

There are probably PFs who are limited where Rudy won't really get in their way but they are not going to be as talented as KAT and there a plenty of PFs that would fit with KAT., but probably not any Centers per se... perhaps a 4/5. Two centers just isn't going to work it takes skill off the court in most cases. KAT is subjectively a top 5 center, but closer to an average PF than closer to top 5. It takes away our positional advantage based on scarcity. It is ill-advised.

Only limited PFs are a fit with Rudy and not a single center in the NBA is a fit with KAT.
I'm trying to word this so it isn't mocking. You have great confidence in your basketball acumen to claim to know this when the entire wolves coaching staff and Connelly didn't. People who had extensive access to the players in question. At the time of the trade I thought Rudy and KAT were a perfect fit to work together, but then slow start and injury wiped out the season. I still believe, like the Wolves coaching staff and Connelly, that Rudy and KAT can be a great fit together.

[minimus]

https://nypost.com/2023/07/04/a-potential-paul-george-trade-to-knicks-now-off-the-table

Interesting, NY have four (!!!) FRPs in 2024 draft, NY is Towns hometown

NYK IN: Towns, Bogdanovic, Burks
NYK OUT: Randle, Hart, Fournier, IQ, two 2024 FRPs, 2025 FRP

Why for NYK: get more shooters, make next step

Mitchell/Hartenstein
Towns/Bogdanovic
Barrett/Grimes
Grimes/Burks
Brunson/DDV/McBride

DET IN: Randle, Moore
DET OUT: Bogdanovic, Burks

Why for DET: get starting PF and young player

Duren/Wiseman/Stewart
Randle/Bagley
Cade/Thompson
Thompson/Moore
Yvey/Morris/Sasser

MIN IN: Hart, Fournier, IQ, two 2024 FRPs, 2025 FRP
MIN OUT: Towns, Moore

Why for MIN: get expiring contract, three FRPs picks and two comboguards

Gobert/Reid/Garza
Anderson/Minott/Miller
MCD/Brown/Milton
Edwards/Hart/NAW
Conley/NAW/IQ + McLaughlin

[Domejandro]

Beyond not liking the trade to begin with, why is Detroit eating all of the value from Minnesota?

[SO_MONEY]

According to you is there any PF in the NBA that is a good fit with Rudy Gobert? Is there any center in the NBA that is a good fit with KAT?

There are probably PFs who are limited where Rudy won't really get in their way but they are not going to be as talented as KAT and there a plenty of PFs that would fit with KAT., but probably not any Centers per se... perhaps a 4/5. Two centers just isn't going to work it takes skill off the court in most cases. KAT is subjectively a top 5 center, but closer to an average PF than closer to top 5. It takes away our positional advantage based on scarcity. It is ill-advised.

Only limited PFs are a fit with Rudy and not a single center in the NBA is a fit with KAT.
I'm trying to word this so it isn't mocking. You have great confidence in your basketball acumen to claim to know this when the entire wolves coaching staff and Connelly didn't. People who had extensive access to the players in question. At the time of the trade I thought Rudy and KAT were a perfect fit to work together, but then slow start and injury wiped out the season. I still believe, like the Wolves coaching staff and Connelly, that Rudy and KAT can be a great fit together.

I am trying to word this so it isn't mocking... lol...but have you considered they made a mistake (targeted wrong type of player), people are not infallible. I don't care who you are, what you do, how much information is put in front of you, you can still screw up.

I think the Rudy trade was the result of a desperate new ownership group that wanted to make an impact which probably doesn't lend itself to weighted decision making.

Additionally, I think Finch hates this, you can hear it, he even made some comments prior to the trade even when rumors were circulating. I think TC called it an experiment because he was pressured into it and knows this is potentially reputationally damaging, he doesn't know if it is going to work... probably doesn't think it will. I don't think he is happy either.

For multiple reasons, fans, media ECT... have turned on both Rudy and KAT, this didn't happen just because... reasons. It happened because this was a historically bad trade and it is evident the two didn't complement each other, which was predictable. You ask how I am so confident... you are in the minority... what makes you so confident? The words of people who won't own up to mistakes because there is no advantage in doing so? Even still TC let's stuff slip. Dan Barero really hammered him pre draft asking hard questions. We will see, but I am reading tea leaves... as are a great many.

[minimus]

Brooklyn is Towns hometown

BRO IN: Towns, Dame, Moore
BRO OUT: Dinwiddie, DFS, Claxton, Simmons, four FRPs, six SRPs

Why for BRO: all-in

Towns/Sharpe
O'Neal/Johnson
Bridges/
Moore/Thomas
Dame/Sumner

POR IN: Simmons, Claxton, two FRPs, three SRPs
POR OUT: Dame

Why for DET: Claxton has been defensive monster last season, get two FRPs, three SRPs

Claxton/Nurkic
Grant/Simmons
Little
Simons/Sharpe
Scoot

MIN IN: Dinwiddie, DFS, two FRPs, three SRPs
MIN OUT: Towns, Moore

Why for MIN: get veteran comboguard, backup PF, two FRPs, three SRPs

Gobert/Reid/Garza
Anderson/DFS/Minott + Miller
MCD/Brown/Milton
Edwards/NAW/Milton
Conley/Dinwiddie/McLaughlin

Id prefered to slightly modify deal to Cameron Johnson but it is not possilbe. Johnson+Miller+Minott would be awesome combination on wings

Gobert/Reid/Garza
Anderson/Johnson/Minott + Miller
MCD/Brown/Milton
Edwards/NAW/Milton
Conley/Dinwiddie/McLaughlin

[KGdaBom]

There are probably PFs who are limited where Rudy won't really get in their way but they are not going to be as talented as KAT and there a plenty of PFs that would fit with KAT., but probably not any Centers per se... perhaps a 4/5. Two centers just isn't going to work it takes skill off the court in most cases. KAT is subjectively a top 5 center, but closer to an average PF than closer to top 5. It takes away our positional advantage based on scarcity. It is ill-advised.

Only limited PFs are a fit with Rudy and not a single center in the NBA is a fit with KAT.
I'm trying to word this so it isn't mocking. You have great confidence in your basketball acumen to claim to know this when the entire wolves coaching staff and Connelly didn't. People who had extensive access to the players in question. At the time of the trade I thought Rudy and KAT were a perfect fit to work together, but then slow start and injury wiped out the season. I still believe, like the Wolves coaching staff and Connelly, that Rudy and KAT can be a great fit together.

I am trying to word this so it isn't mocking... lol...but have you considered they made a mistake (targeted wrong type of player), people are not infallible. I don't care who you are, what you do, how much information is put in front of you, you can still screw up.

I think the Rudy trade was the result of a desperate new ownership group that wanted to make an impact which probably doesn't lend itself to weighted decision making.

Additionally, I think Finch hates this, you can hear it, he even made some comments prior to the trade even when rumors were circulating. I think TC called it an experiment because he was pressured into it and knows this is potentially reputationally damaging, he doesn't know if it is going to work... probably doesn't think it will. I don't think he is happy either.

For multiple reasons, fans, media ECT... have turned on both Rudy and KAT, this didn't happen just because... reasons. It happened because this was a historically bad trade and it is evident the two didn't complement each other, which was predictable. You ask how I am so confident... you are in the minority... what makes you so confident? The words of people who won't own up to mistakes because there is no advantage in doing so? Even still TC let's stuff slip. Dan Barero really hammered him pre draft asking hard questions. We will see, but I am reading tea leaves... as are a great many.

Considered it for about a second then dismissed it. Rudy was exactly the type of player we needed. Defense, Rebounding, Screens and 70% on FGs. Last year he was good, but not nearly as good as expected. He didn't play like the player he was in Utah for whatever reason. I don't believe the players on Utah were a better fit for him than the players we have.

IIRC he was ranked in the top 20 players in the NBA by ESPN. It's possible he lost a step from the season before to last year. Or it could just be acclimating to a new team and system and then getting derailed by injuries to himself and more importantly to KAT. That's what I'm hoping it was and he returns to being the best Defender, screener, lob recipient, and best rebounder in the NBA this year.

[SO_MONEY]

Only limited PFs are a fit with Rudy and not a single center in the NBA is a fit with KAT.
I'm trying to word this so it isn't mocking. You have great confidence in your basketball acumen to claim to know this when the entire wolves coaching staff and Connelly didn't. People who had extensive access to the players in question. At the time of the trade I thought Rudy and KAT were a perfect fit to work together, but then slow start and injury wiped out the season. I still believe, like the Wolves coaching staff and Connelly, that Rudy and KAT can be a great fit together.

I am trying to word this so it isn't mocking... lol...but have you considered they made a mistake (targeted wrong type of player), people are not infallible. I don't care who you are, what you do, how much information is put in front of you, you can still screw up.

I think the Rudy trade was the result of a desperate new ownership group that wanted to make an impact which probably doesn't lend itself to weighted decision making.

Additionally, I think Finch hates this, you can hear it, he even made some comments prior to the trade even when rumors were circulating. I think TC called it an experiment because he was pressured into it and knows this is potentially reputationally damaging, he doesn't know if it is going to work... probably doesn't think it will. I don't think he is happy either.

For multiple reasons, fans, media ECT... have turned on both Rudy and KAT, this didn't happen just because... reasons. It happened because this was a historically bad trade and it is evident the two didn't complement each other, which was predictable. You ask how I am so confident... you are in the minority... what makes you so confident? The words of people who won't own up to mistakes because there is no advantage in doing so? Even still TC let's stuff slip. Dan Barero really hammered him pre draft asking hard questions. We will see, but I am reading tea leaves... as are a great many.

Considered it for about a second then dismissed it. Rudy was exactly the type of player we needed. Defense, Rebounding, Screens and 70% on FGs. Last year he was good, but not nearly as good as expected. He didn't play like the player he was in Utah for whatever reason. I don't believe the players on Utah were a better fit for him than the players we have.

IIRC he was ranked in the top 20 players in the NBA by ESPN. It's possible he lost a step from the season before to last year. Or it could just be acclimating to a new team and system and then getting derailed by injuries to himself and more importantly to KAT. That's what I'm hoping it was and he returns to being the best Defender, screener, lob recipient, and best rebounder in the NBA this year.

Well, if that is the depth of your insight, who can argue against it. I absolutely hated the trade, but I was completely open to the possibility it could work, hoped it would work because if it didn't it puts us at an operational loss for a decade... one where the only way out is through. My hope, even though it went against my instincts, was misplaced, not just that it was worse than I thought it would be, far worse. I have seen enough it is time to move on. You can respond with your seconds worth of thoughts, but it doesn't mean much or undo what we witnessed. Gobert was not a good fit, wasn't a good fit going into it.

[KGdaBom]

I am trying to word this so it isn't mocking... lol...but have you considered they made a mistake (targeted wrong type of player), people are not infallible. I don't care who you are, what you do, how much information is put in front of you, you can still screw up.

I think the Rudy trade was the result of a desperate new ownership group that wanted to make an impact which probably doesn't lend itself to weighted decision making.

Additionally, I think Finch hates this, you can hear it, he even made some comments prior to the trade even when rumors were circulating. I think TC called it an experiment because he was pressured into it and knows this is potentially reputationally damaging, he doesn't know if it is going to work... probably doesn't think it will. I don't think he is happy either.

For multiple reasons, fans, media ECT... have turned on both Rudy and KAT, this didn't happen just because... reasons. It happened because this was a historically bad trade and it is evident the two didn't complement each other, which was predictable. You ask how I am so confident... you are in the minority... what makes you so confident? The words of people who won't own up to mistakes because there is no advantage in doing so? Even still TC let's stuff slip. Dan Barero really hammered him pre draft asking hard questions. We will see, but I am reading tea leaves... as are a great many.

Considered it for about a second then dismissed it. Rudy was exactly the type of player we needed. Defense, Rebounding, Screens and 70% on FGs. Last year he was good, but not nearly as good as expected. He didn't play like the player he was in Utah for whatever reason. I don't believe the players on Utah were a better fit for him than the players we have.

IIRC he was ranked in the top 20 players in the NBA by ESPN. It's possible he lost a step from the season before to last year. Or it could just be acclimating to a new team and system and then getting derailed by injuries to himself and more importantly to KAT. That's what I'm hoping it was and he returns to being the best Defender, screener, lob recipient, and best rebounder in the NBA this year.

Well, if that is the depth of your insight, who can argue against it. I absolutely hated the trade, but I was completely open to the possibility it could work, hoped it would work because if it didn't it puts us at an operational loss for a decade... one where the only way out is through. My hope, even though it went against my instincts, was misplaced, not just that it was worse than I thought it would be, far worse. I have seen enough it is time to move on. You can respond with your seconds worth of thoughts, but it doesn't mean much or undo what we witnessed. Gobert was not a good fit, wasn't a good fit going into it.

The Depth of my insight is the entire career of Rudy Gobert and the desperate need the Wolves have for interior defense and rebounding. That's far more than your one season where we only had a few games to install Rudy with the rest of our core.
The Rudy I saw in Utah impressed the hell out of me. I see him as providing exactly what we need. Hopefully this year we see that player he was in Utah.

[SO_MONEY]

Considered it for about a second then dismissed it. Rudy was exactly the type of player we needed. Defense, Rebounding, Screens and 70% on FGs. Last year he was good, but not nearly as good as expected. He didn't play like the player he was in Utah for whatever reason. I don't believe the players on Utah were a better fit for him than the players we have.

IIRC he was ranked in the top 20 players in the NBA by ESPN. It's possible he lost a step from the season before to last year. Or it could just be acclimating to a new team and system and then getting derailed by injuries to himself and more importantly to KAT. That's what I'm hoping it was and he returns to being the best Defender, screener, lob recipient, and best rebounder in the NBA this year.

Well, if that is the depth of your insight, who can argue against it. I absolutely hated the trade, but I was completely open to the possibility it could work, hoped it would work because if it didn't it puts us at an operational loss for a decade... one where the only way out is through. My hope, even though it went against my instincts, was misplaced, not just that it was worse than I thought it would be, far worse. I have seen enough it is time to move on. You can respond with your seconds worth of thoughts, but it doesn't mean much or undo what we witnessed. Gobert was not a good fit, wasn't a good fit going into it.

I will grant you that you have conviction. You are absolutely certain of your being right with very little evidence IMO. I see him as providing exactly what we need. Hopefully this year we see that player he was in Utah.

The irony.

Pot meet kettle.

I have witnessed what you have we have different assessments, you have admittedly spent a second on it, I watched hoping I was wrong, no different than I will this season if they do nothing, but I don't think I am wrong here, I was only wrong in that it was much worse than I expected. I think we need to move on I have seen enough. That is my call, that my opinion on the matter. You can keep telling me he is a great fit, he offered what we needed... you are not going to gaslight me me.

[twolves31]

On ESPN's free agency surprises and best moves article, 3 of the 5 said Towns is the most likely to be traded at the deadline.

"Which player has flown under the radar in free agency but will be a big storyline come February's trade deadline?"

MacMahon: There has been some discussion about Towns, but it shouldn't be a surprise if that gets much louder as the trade deadline nears. The face of the franchise for the Timberwolves has transitioned to Edwards, fresh off signing a new potential supermax extension. If Minnesota is going to make another major change, it would need to be by trading Towns.

Collier: Towns. Minnesota did not live up to expectations last season, and had Towns not missed such a significant portion of the campaign with an injury, there might already be more questions surrounding that roster.

Spears: If Grant's salary weren't so high, I could see him as a potential player for the rebuilding Blazers to move. I'm keeping an eye on Towns; it's the Anthony Edwards show now.

[Klomp]

I know I'll be in the minority on this, and that's fine. However, I don't think there will ever be a point where they feel forced to trade Towns (or Gobert). I think it can be used as a vehicle to improve the PG position, but won't anything forced by the depth of the roster.

[Klomp]

Thoughts on a Kyle Anderson for DeAnthony Melton trade midseason?

[Krapinsky]

Thoughts on a Kyle Anderson for DeAnthony Melton trade midseason?

No thanks. Melton is on an expiring deal heading into unrestricted free agency. Why would wolves spend money to retain him when we have Edwards, Milton, and NAW to command back court minutes?

[Klomp]

No thanks. Melton is on an expiring deal heading into unrestricted free agency. Why would wolves spend money to retain him when we have Edwards, Milton, and NAW to command back court minutes?

Melton and Anderson are on the same deal right now (Melton a little cheaper actually, which can save tax dollars). My thought was if we are looking for a young Bruce Brown-style "PG" to add to our core, Melton might be one of the best available for a reasonable price. UFA makes it risky, but I'm trying to creatively solve the PG conundrum.

[urinesane]

Well, if that is the depth of your insight, who can argue against it. I absolutely hated the trade, but I was completely open to the possibility it could work, hoped it would work because if it didn't it puts us at an operational loss for a decade... one where the only way out is through. My hope, even though it went against my instincts, was misplaced, not just that it was worse than I thought it would be, far worse. I have seen enough it is time to move on. You can respond with your seconds worth of thoughts, but it doesn't mean much or undo what we witnessed. Gobert was not a good fit, wasn't a good fit going into it.

I will grant you that you have conviction. You are absolutely certain of your being right with very little evidence IMO. I see him as providing exactly what we need. Hopefully this year we see that player he was in Utah.

The irony.

Pot meet kettle.

I have witnessed what you have we have different assessments, you have admittedly spent a second on it, I watched hoping I was wrong, no different than I will this season if they do nothing, but I don't think I am wrong here, I was only wrong in that it was much worse than I expected. I think we need to move on I have seen enough. That is my call, that my opinion on the matter. You can keep telling me he is a great fit, he offered what we needed... you are not going to gaslight me me.

Just because you watched the same thing, doesn't mean you saw the same things.

You were only wrong in how right you actually were, lol. You're hilarious.

[urinesane]

On ESPN's free agency surprises and best moves article, 3 of the 5 said Towns is the most likely to be traded at the deadline.

"Which player has flown under the radar in free agency but will be a big storyline come February's trade deadline?"

MacMahon: There has been some discussion about Towns, but it shouldn't be a surprise if that gets much louder as the trade deadline nears. The face of the franchise for the Timberwolves has transitioned to Edwards, fresh off signing a new potential supermax extension. If Minnesota is going to make another major change, it would need to be by trading Towns.

Collier: Towns. Minnesota did not live up to expectations last season, and had Towns not missed such a significant portion of the campaign with an injury, there might already be more questions surrounding that roster.

Spears: If Grant's salary weren't so high, I could see him as a potential player for the rebuilding Blazers to move. I'm keeping an eye on Towns; it's the Anthony Edwards show now.

If their salaries were tied to the accuracy/success of their opinions, they'd all be broke. Why does anyone care what the media thinks?

Their job isn't to be accurate, it's to get you to pay attention to them, when they get you to watch/read they are rewarded, regardless of how wrong/right they were in their takes.

Just remember this song when you get the urge to base your opinion on the hot takes of the national media...

Watch on YouTube

Also, SO_MONEY references things he "heard" or a "local reporter" as an indicator of validity with his opinions, so you know it's a bad move.