Trade Talk (Part 14): 2023-24 Edition

[jpatrick]

To trade for Tyus would require moving Anderson, so the question is whether the Wolves would be a better team after a deal. Personally, I think we would be a better team if we keep Kyle.

The reason Kyle is so valuable to us right now is because we lack a viable backup point guard. With a trade to get a new facilitator, the need for Kyle lessens.

True, but Kyle also fills a ton of gaps that Tyus won't. At this point I'm not confident that the Wolves could adequately replace Anderson's SF/PF minutes.

I don’t think we sign Anderson this offseason, he’ll be too expensive for our salary structure. But I think his versatility and BBIQ makes him to valuable for someone like Tyus, who is a good backup point guard with no defensive versatility, not even very good at defending PGs, and who I don’t see as having any upside beyond backup PG.

I also think we can and will get a cheaper backup point guard at/near the deadline.

[minimus]

Some players who are out of rotation in their teams or injured or struggling:

Bones Hyland - 2.3mil in 2023-24, 4.2 mil in 2024-25
Monte Morris - 10 mil in 2023-24 (injured, probably wont play in 2023)
Joe Harris - 20 mil in 2023-24 (injured, will miss 10-14 days)
Delon Wright - 8 mil in 2023-24 (injured, probably wont play in 2023)
Jevon Carter - 20mil/3yrs
Vasilije Micić - 23mil/3yrs
Kris Dunn - 2.5mil in 2023-24
Payton Pritchard - 30mil/4yrs
Devonte' Graham - 12mil in 2023-24, 12 mil in 2024-25 (only 3 mil guaranteed)
Evan Fournier - 19mil in 2023-24, 19 mil in 2024-25 (team option)
Dennis Smith Jr - 2.5mil in 2023-24
Théo Maledon - TW contract

[moss_is_1]

I think more than just a backup PG, we should be looking to add shooting. Someone who can be a knockdown guy off the bench, if they can handle and make plays that'd be a huge bonus. Slomo may even be expendable in that. Love the player, however his lack of scoring, other front court options(Kat, Naz, Rudy, Jaden, Naw, TBJ), and his expiring contract it makes sense to move him in the right deal.

[minimus]

I think more than just a backup PG, we should be looking to add shooting. Someone who can be a knockdown guy off the bench, if they can handle and make plays that'd be a huge bonus. Slomo may even be expendable in that. Love the player, however his lack of scoring, other front court options(Kat, Naz, Rudy, Jaden, Naw, TBJ), and his expiring contract it makes sense to move him in the right deal.

I would give TBJ all minutes just because he is playing on both ends of the floor. Whoever we might get as shooter right now he will be an offensive minded player like Matt Ryan, Joe Harris, Fournier, Hyland etc. So instead I would promote TBJ during McDaniels and Edwards absence and keep our defensive minded identity. He is not a lockdown defender by any means, but he has been hustling, giving 100% effort. This is actually a luxury for us, that we have NAW and now TBJ on the bench.

That said the trade that I stylistically like is Milton, Moore + 2nd round pick for Delon Wright. NAW/TBJ/Wright would be a great interchangeable trio from the bench.

[minimus]

Milton, Moore for Killian Hayes?

[shrink]

Would you trade SloMo for a borderline starting PG?

Anderson seems to have some trade value to contenders (and has value to us), and the Trade Board has a few teams that would give a late first for his expiring contract. But he also is a team leader here who was instrumental to our success last year, providing structure when our team would get overly excited. He also is our zone buster, knows how to feed Rudy, and plays some of the role as Conley’s back up already.

I look at him as a borderline starter for us, and several other teams. If you could swap him for a similar level player that was a PG (say, a healthy Monte Morris, Tyus Jones, etc), would ya? Or is it it better to keep SloMo, and hope Milton starts playing better?

[minimus]

Would you trade SloMo for a borderline starting PG?

Anderson seems to have some trade value to contenders (and has value to us), and the Trade Board has a few teams that would give a late first for his expiring contract. But he also is a team leader here who was instrumental to our success last year, providing structure when our team would get overly excited. He also is our zone buster, knows how to feed Rudy, and plays some of the role as Conley’s back up already.

I look at him as a borderline starter for us, and several other teams. If you could swap him for a similar level player that was a PG (say, a healthy Monte Morris, Tyus Jones, etc), would ya? Or is it it better to keep SloMo, and hope Milton starts playing better?

I wonder if Slo-Mo + Milton centric offense is a bad fit for Reid, who excels at playing fast, making quick decision with and without ball. IMO if we trade Milton for a 3&D player we will still have enough playmaking once NAW returns in second unit and TBJ keeps playing well. We need healthy McDaniels, Edwards and McLaughlin to shift further NAW, TBJ, Anderson in rotation.

Naz-Anderson-TBJ-NAW + healthy McLaughlin is a solid bench unit. Even without Milton. If we DET waive Morris and we can get him for vetmin it will be a jackpot. I dont see any reason for DET to keep Morris: when healthy they have multiple guards Cade, Thompson, Ivey, Burks, Sasser, Hayes.

The ONLY important factor about Milton is that he is a big guard. Ideally I want all our guards to be taller as 6'4", 6'5". I want a big guards to reduce probability of bad matchups for us in defense AND I want strong rebound effort. Thats why a guy such as Delon Wright would be a great fit. Naz-Anderson-TBJ-NAW-Wright

[wolves_89]

Would you trade SloMo for a borderline starting PG?

Anderson seems to have some trade value to contenders (and has value to us), and the Trade Board has a few teams that would give a late first for his expiring contract. But he also is a team leader here who was instrumental to our success last year, providing structure when our team would get overly excited. He also is our zone buster, knows how to feed Rudy, and plays some of the role as Conley’s back up already.

I look at him as a borderline starter for us, and several other teams. If you could swap him for a similar level player that was a PG (say, a healthy Monte Morris, Tyus Jones, etc), would ya? Or is it it better to keep SloMo, and hope Milton starts playing better?

Right now I think trading Anderson for a Morris/Jones type of backup PG ends up making the team slightly worse. Anderson's value revolves around his flexibility. You need someone to fill in at PG for a stretch, Kyle can do it. You need a guy with legitimate PF size to guard a big, again Kyle fills that gap. Perimeter wing defense, put in Kyle. He just fills so many gaps that he's really hard to replace.

At the start of the year I was hoping that some combination of Brown/Minott/Miller could cover the SF/PF part of Anderson's minutes, but at this point I don't have any confidence in that group being able to adequately fill the void an Anderson trade would create. My guess is that the Brown/Minott/Miller group would be a significant step down and that there would be huge volatility in their production both good and bad.

With all that said, my current thinking on an Anderson trade is that I'd take the chance for a PG that could be a long term answer, but I would decline a move for an expiring player like Morris/Jones.

[moss_is_1]

Would you trade SloMo for a borderline starting PG?

Anderson seems to have some trade value to contenders (and has value to us), and the Trade Board has a few teams that would give a late first for his expiring contract. But he also is a team leader here who was instrumental to our success last year, providing structure when our team would get overly excited. He also is our zone buster, knows how to feed Rudy, and plays some of the role as Conley’s back up already.

I look at him as a borderline starter for us, and several other teams. If you could swap him for a similar level player that was a PG (say, a healthy Monte Morris, Tyus Jones, etc), would ya? Or is it it better to keep SloMo, and hope Milton starts playing better?

Right now I think trading Anderson for a Morris/Jones type of backup PG ends up making the team slightly worse. Anderson's value revolves around his flexibility. You need someone to fill in at PG for a stretch, Kyle can do it. You need a guy with legitimate PF size to guard a big, again Kyle fills that gap. Perimeter wing defense, put in Kyle. He just fills so many gaps that he's really hard to replace.

At the start of the year I was hoping that some combination of Brown/Minott/Miller could cover the SF/PF part of Anderson's minutes, but at this point I don't have any confidence in that group being able to adequately fill the void an Anderson trade would create. My guess is that the Brown/Minott/Miller group would be a significant step down and that there would be huge volatility in their production both good and bad.

With all that said, my current thinking on an Anderson trade is that I'd take the chance for a PG that could be a long term answer, but I would decline a move for an expiring player like Morris/Jones.

If we could move Slomo for Tyus I'd feel pretty confident we could keep him long term. Local guy, and he'd have a chance to start/ play big minutes on a really good team with Conleys age. I'd imagine we'd need to have a 3rd team involved to send a pick to Washington since they'd have no need for Anderson. Unless we just add incentive(Moore and/or 2nd round pick).

I love Kyle, but as I said early it just makes sense from a team construction point to dangle him in a deal to strengthen our weakness.

[Colbinii]

Would you trade SloMo for a borderline starting PG?

Anderson seems to have some trade value to contenders (and has value to us), and the Trade Board has a few teams that would give a late first for his expiring contract. But he also is a team leader here who was instrumental to our success last year, providing structure when our team would get overly excited. He also is our zone buster, knows how to feed Rudy, and plays some of the role as Conley’s back up already.

I look at him as a borderline starter for us, and several other teams. If you could swap him for a similar level player that was a PG (say, a healthy Monte Morris, Tyus Jones, etc), would ya? Or is it it better to keep SloMo, and hope Milton starts playing better?

I wonder if Slo-Mo + Milton centric offense is a bad fit for Reid, who excels at playing fast, making quick decision with and without ball. IMO if we trade Milton for a 3&D player we will still have enough playmaking once NAW returns in second unit and TBJ keeps playing well. We need healthy McDaniels, Edwards and McLaughlin to shift further NAW, TBJ, Anderson in rotation.

Naz-Anderson-TBJ-NAW + healthy McLaughlin is a solid bench unit. Even without Milton. If we DET waive Morris and we can get him for vetmin it will be a jackpot. I dont see any reason for DET to keep Morris: when healthy they have multiple guards Cade, Thompson, Ivey, Burks, Sasser, Hayes.

The ONLY important factor about Milton is that he is a big guard. Ideally I want all our guards to be taller as 6'4", 6'5". I want a big guards to reduce probability of bad matchups for us in defense AND I want strong rebound effort. Thats why a guy such as Delon Wright would be a great fit. Naz-Anderson-TBJ-NAW-Wright

Why are you so focused on a 5-man bench unit? We should always have one of Edwards or Towns in the game.

[wolves_89]

Would you trade SloMo for a borderline starting PG?

Anderson seems to have some trade value to contenders (and has value to us), and the Trade Board has a few teams that would give a late first for his expiring contract. But he also is a team leader here who was instrumental to our success last year, providing structure when our team would get overly excited. He also is our zone buster, knows how to feed Rudy, and plays some of the role as Conley’s back up already.

I look at him as a borderline starter for us, and several other teams. If you could swap him for a similar level player that was a PG (say, a healthy Monte Morris, Tyus Jones, etc), would ya? Or is it it better to keep SloMo, and hope Milton starts playing better?

Right now I think trading Anderson for a Morris/Jones type of backup PG ends up making the team slightly worse. Anderson's value revolves around his flexibility. You need someone to fill in at PG for a stretch, Kyle can do it. You need a guy with legitimate PF size to guard a big, again Kyle fills that gap. Perimeter wing defense, put in Kyle. He just fills so many gaps that he's really hard to replace.

At the start of the year I was hoping that some combination of Brown/Minott/Miller could cover the SF/PF part of Anderson's minutes, but at this point I don't have any confidence in that group being able to adequately fill the void an Anderson trade would create. My guess is that the Brown/Minott/Miller group would be a significant step down and that there would be huge volatility in their production both good and bad.

With all that said, my current thinking on an Anderson trade is that I'd take the chance for a PG that could be a long term answer, but I would decline a move for an expiring player like Morris/Jones.

If we could move Slomo for Tyus I'd feel pretty confident we could keep him long term. Local guy, and he'd have a chance to start/ play big minutes on a really good team with Conleys age. I'd imagine we'd need to have a 3rd team involved to send a pick to Washington since they'd have no need for Anderson. Unless we just add incentive(Moore and/or 2nd round pick).

I love Kyle, but as I said early it just makes sense from a team construction point to dangle him in a deal to strengthen our weakness.

I'd be fine with exploring the trade market for Anderson, but I see the result of a Tyus deal making the team a bit worse. I am also far more pessimistic on the Wolves ability to re-sign Jones. Basically, unless the deal is a clear upgrade (which Jones is not) or there is some longer term value I'd keep Kyle.

[shrink]

Why are you so focused on a 5-man bench unit? We should always have one of Edwards or Towns in the game.

I heard a stat somewhere that the bench with Edwards was fantastic - without him was awful.

So that means two courses of action. Play Ant more with the bench, or bring in someone that improves the current bench.

[shrink]

Maybe it would be helpful to put players into groups, whether they are better playing fast or slow, and have more line ups with similar players? Good players can do both, but I’m trying to think which one is better.

I’m not great at X’s and O’s, but maybe …

Slow: Gobert, Anderson, Conley, Towns?

Fast: Ant, Naz, Jaden, NAW?

If this is accurate, we are lucky to have both groups cover position, size and roles.

[moss_is_1]

Right now I think trading Anderson for a Morris/Jones type of backup PG ends up making the team slightly worse. Anderson's value revolves around his flexibility. You need someone to fill in at PG for a stretch, Kyle can do it. You need a guy with legitimate PF size to guard a big, again Kyle fills that gap. Perimeter wing defense, put in Kyle. He just fills so many gaps that he's really hard to replace.

At the start of the year I was hoping that some combination of Brown/Minott/Miller could cover the SF/PF part of Anderson's minutes, but at this point I don't have any confidence in that group being able to adequately fill the void an Anderson trade would create. My guess is that the Brown/Minott/Miller group would be a significant step down and that there would be huge volatility in their production both good and bad.

With all that said, my current thinking on an Anderson trade is that I'd take the chance for a PG that could be a long term answer, but I would decline a move for an expiring player like Morris/Jones.

If we could move Slomo for Tyus I'd feel pretty confident we could keep him long term. Local guy, and he'd have a chance to start/ play big minutes on a really good team with Conleys age. I'd imagine we'd need to have a 3rd team involved to send a pick to Washington since they'd have no need for Anderson. Unless we just add incentive(Moore and/or 2nd round pick).

I love Kyle, but as I said early it just makes sense from a team construction point to dangle him in a deal to strengthen our weakness.

I'd be fine with exploring the trade market for Anderson, but I see the result of a Tyus deal making the team a bit worse. I am also far more pessimistic on the Wolves ability to re-sign Jones. Basically, unless the deal is a clear upgrade (which Jones is not) or there is some longer term value I'd keep Kyle.

Fair point. Andersons defense, size and versatility would be missed. Hopeful we have guys in line who can replicate that. His complete lack of looking to score hurts us at times. If Tyus upgrades the shooting, and adds a bench scoring punch it would be huge.

[Guest84]

While I'm not opposed to upgrading Kyle's spot, I wouldn't want to trade him in season. I think his importance to the team currently isn't fully understood. As previously mentioned, he's an intangible/glue guy with solid defense, and play-making ability, and also brings a calming influence to the team on the court.

He's way too effective in other places to allow his reluctance to shoot to deter me from keeping him. Outside of Kat, Rudy, Naz, he's the one player that I feel would kill the chemistry if traded midseason. However, Shake and a few others wouldn't move the needle as much if moved.

[twolves31]

Let's see where we are at come trade deadline, if we are a top 3 seed its going to be hard to move someone that is contributing to that in Anderson. If Milton is still sucking coming the deadline, you have to look at moving him along with More to bring in that last piece.

[minimus]

If we could move Slomo for Tyus I'd feel pretty confident we could keep him long term. Local guy, and he'd have a chance to start/ play big minutes on a really good team with Conleys age. I'd imagine we'd need to have a 3rd team involved to send a pick to Washington since they'd have no need for Anderson. Unless we just add incentive(Moore and/or 2nd round pick).

I love Kyle, but as I said early it just makes sense from a team construction point to dangle him in a deal to strengthen our weakness.

I'd be fine with exploring the trade market for Anderson, but I see the result of a Tyus deal making the team a bit worse. I am also far more pessimistic on the Wolves ability to re-sign Jones. Basically, unless the deal is a clear upgrade (which Jones is not) or there is some longer term value I'd keep Kyle.

Fair point. Andersons defense, size and versatility would be missed. Hopeful we have guys in line who can replicate that. His complete lack of looking to score hurts us at times. If Tyus upgrades the shooting, and adds a bench scoring punch it would be huge.

I remember one game particularly when Andersons versatility was on display. It was play-in game against NOP, Rudy punched Kyle, Towns fouled out. Anderson has to play against Valanciunas and at some point blocked him from behind. This moment I realized how much he did for us last season. He carried us against zone defense, he defended on perimeter and under the rim, he facilitate and hit 3pt with 40% accuracy, his floater game was elite. I wish we can keep him for next 3-4 years.

[moss_is_1]

I'd be fine with exploring the trade market for Anderson, but I see the result of a Tyus deal making the team a bit worse. I am also far more pessimistic on the Wolves ability to re-sign Jones. Basically, unless the deal is a clear upgrade (which Jones is not) or there is some longer term value I'd keep Kyle.

Fair point. Andersons defense, size and versatility would be missed. Hopeful we have guys in line who can replicate that. His complete lack of looking to score hurts us at times. If Tyus upgrades the shooting, and adds a bench scoring punch it would be huge.

I remember one game particularly when Andersons versatility was on display. It was play-in game against NOP, Rudy punched Kyle, Towns fouled out. Anderson has to play against Valanciunas and at some point blocked him from behind. This moment I realized how much he did for us last season. He carried us against zone defense, he defended on perimeter and under the rim, he facilitate and hit 3pt with 40% accuracy, his floater game was elite. I wish we can keep him for next 3-4 years.

While he did shoot 40% from three last season, it was on low volume, making only .6 threes per game. This season he's 2 for 11 for the season. I'm all for keeping Slomo, just saying if we find a deal for a PG upgrade, or PGOTF it would make sense if he's one of the major trade chips.

[shrink]

I wanted to bring this over here from the Trade Board. Imagine a straight swap of Troy Brown Jr for Jalen McDaniels.

Andyhop is right about the high price of the incremental luxury taxes on Jalen’s $4.7 mil next year - that would add about $2.5 mil next year in payroll (instead we’d probably fill that roster spot with a $2.2 vet min deal), and the lux taxes and chance to cross the second apron increases. I think Troy Brown Jr is a better player in a vacuum as well, he’s only $4 mil, AND it’s a team option. Jalen is playing poorly this year too. However, I wonder if making this trade increases the chances that Jaden reaches his ceiling? Both Ant and Jaden are a LONG way from the comparisons to Jordan and Pippen, but it’s players of this caliber that are the truly valuable pieces in the NBA. Heck, Jalen would probably improve here too.

I don’t know what to think, because it makes me feel like a hypocrite. I completely agree with andyhop’s point, and usually I’m the guy that is making “lux taxes are real money” statements, but for “my” team I look for ways to ignore the sticker shock? But I thought this was worth discussing here because we will be debating finances vs team-building for many players, with the financial stakes so high.

Can't see the Wolves wanting to have McDaniels money on the books next year

You could be right, and he’s averaging 2.3 PPG on FG 29%, so that $4.7 mil next year doesn’t look good. And MIN doesn’t even need the “concept” of Jalen as much as other teams.

However, I might be on board here, mostly as an investment in improving Jaden

The brothers were gifted athletes who played multiple sports. Jalen and Jaden would compete constantly. They’d have “heated” NBA 2K sessions. (“He’d get hot and throw the controller,” Jalen recalls of his younger brother.) They’d go head-to-head in various sports. Even if they were just working out or doing a shooting drill, it would quickly turn into a competition.

“We’ve always just been competitors,” Jalen explained. “*That just came from me and my brother beating on each other in anything. Playing one-on-one football, trying to get past each other. [Playing] one-on-one basketball. Anything we did, we were just competitive. I felt like that just built us up, honestly…

“So, when we would do AAU circuits, I feel like that competitiveness just always came out. Like [when we were] getting recruited and stuff, I feel like coaches have just always seen that.*”

While they loved battling one another, they dreamed of teaming up in the NBA.

“We always used to talk about being on the same [NBA] team and how that would be crazy, throwing lobs to each other and stuff like that,” Jalen said. ”We just always thought playing on the same team would be fun and just [with] our chemistry together, of course it would just go crazy. Yeah, that was one dream we had, for sure.”

Once you work out the Luxury tax payment on top of his salary next year it is getting to be serious money , depending on the tax level and other moves the team may make he could end up being dearer than his brother effectively

[shrink]

I understand people’s desire to include Shake Milton as matching salary, but I think Tim Connelly will be reluctant and probably use Troy Brown Jr, who has played much better. I think we need Shake to come around, because he could fill the biggest hole on our roster - a backup guard that can pass and shoot a little. I know he hasn’t been able to do either consistently with the Wolves, but we’ve seen him do it in PHI. I think Connelly and Finch probably believe that Philly Milton is still inside him.

However, I could see them trade Wendell Moore Jr to a young team for a vet min back up PG that would be happier on a playoff-bound team. Is Frank Ntilinka or Kris Dunn any better than what we have now?