Trade Talk (Part Six)

Neeva · Post #1801 » by **Neeva** » Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:28 am

I aint trading a top three pick for Turner or Simmons.

jpatrick · Post #1802 » by **jpatrick** » Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:43 pm

Neeva wrote:I aint trading a top three pick for Turner or Simmons.

Beasley. Future protected first. Other young players. Sure. Top three pick in this draft? No chance.

DLo and a future protected first for Simmons. I’m sure 76ers fans will say no, but what do we think?

Wolves21 · Post #1803 » by **Wolves21** » Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:34 pm

I would be down for trading for Simmons or Turner.In the case of Simmons he would be the PF/C along side Towns,no more trying to play the PG role on the team.He has PG skills and vision but at 6"10 or more and the total lack of a 3PT shot and even a J shouldn't be outside the paint.

I would be in for Beasley plus our pick this year if its not a top 3 pick trade for either guy.Also think just in terms of the money reasons that Rubio will also be trade and could be packaged with Beasley in any type of deal.

Neeva · Post #1804 » by **Neeva** » Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:59 pm

jpatrick wrote:
Neeva wrote:I aint trading a top three pick for Turner or Simmons.

Beasley. Future protected first. Other young players. Sure. Top three pick in this draft? No chance.

DLo and a future protected first for Simmons. I’m sure 76ers fans will say no, but what do we think?

Simmons is dead weight in the playoffs every single season, they have to face reality, if they wanted a huge haul for him they should have traded him years ago.

Note30 · Post #1805 » by **Note30** » Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:44 pm

If we get the #1 overall pick I'd trade Towns and Dlo this offseason.

karch34 · Post #1806 » by **karch34** » Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:19 pm

jpatrick wrote:DLo and a future protected first for Simmons. I’m sure 76ers fans will say no, but what do we think?

Maybe. Simmons contract is longer and we sacrifice shooting we don't have in abundance for defense which we have very little of and a better positional fit if he's playing PF. Preference is another option for a less costly fit at PF who we wouldn't have to run the ball through to take advantage of what he can bring to the table. Though I'm intrigued by what it could look like and if we got Cunningham I'd be more inclined to take that risk.

I think there's going to be a lot of should Simmons be a PF and Giannis a C based on the positions they're playing now require shooting that isn't there if neither team advances.

SO_MONEY · Post #1807 » by **SO_MONEY** » Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:02 pm

I am going to say it is a NO on Simmons and Turner if it costs anything, both examples of players who have been exposed as being limited, but probably still enough name recognition to cost more than "fair" market value.

Neeva · Post #1808 » by **Neeva** » Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:05 pm

In 3-4 seasons Mcdaniels> Simmons value wise.

Post #1809 » by **Klomp** » Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:23 am

Ben Simmons or John Collins on max contract?

Post #1810 » by **Klomp** » Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:37 am

ChiefKeith91 wrote:Ben Simmons Red flags
•Can’t play offball
•Lack of Shooting
•Horrible FT shooter
•His contract

Those are problems I think we don’t need going forward. Ant and DLo are our ball handlers and need shooters for better spacing. I’d hate to have teams hack a Ben during late game situations smh.

Simmons is flawed but I think we have to understand the reality that we wouldn't be in a situation to talk about acquiring him if he wasn't flawed.

I also think that coaches have failed to put him in the best situations at many times.

I hate the argument "X is our ____," as if a team is only allowed to have one or two such players on the roster who excel at passing, playmaking, scoring, defending, etc. I esecially have confidence in Finch and his ability to construct things around the skill sets of all of our players.

I can't really speak to his playoff performance because I haven't seen it, but again, if he was playing at his top level we wouldn't be able to even talk about realistically acquire him.

SO_MONEY · Post #1811 » by **SO_MONEY** » Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:52 am

Klomp wrote:
ChiefKeith91 wrote:Ben Simmons Red flags
•Can’t play offball
•Lack of Shooting
•Horrible FT shooter
•His contract

Those are problems I think we don’t need going forward. Ant and DLo are our ball handlers and need shooters for better spacing. I’d hate to have teams hack a Ben during late game situations smh.

Simmons is flawed but I think we have to understand the reality that we wouldn't be in a situation to talk about acquiring him if he wasn't flawed.

I also think that coaches have failed to put him in the best situations at many times.

I hate the argument "X is our ____," as if a team is only allowed to have one or two such players on the roster who excel at passing, playmaking, scoring, defending, etc. I esecially have confidence in Finch and his ability to construct things around the skill sets of all of our players.

I can't really speak to his playoff performance because I haven't seen it, but again, if he was playing at his top level we wouldn't be able to even talk about realistically acquire him.

If we can only get a player because they are flawed you shouldn't be sending out any real value. You send out value for players without glaring flaws.

Post #1812 » by **Klomp** » Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:57 am

SO_MONEY wrote:If we can only get a player because they are flawed you shouldn't be sending out any real value. You send out value for players without glaring flaws.

Shaquille O'Neal had flaws. He was a horrible FT shooter and had basically no offensive game outside of 5 feet. You wouldn't have sent out real value to acquire him if you had the chance?

SO_MONEY · Post #1813 » by **SO_MONEY** » Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:13 am

Klomp wrote:
SO_MONEY wrote:If we can only get a player because they are flawed you shouldn't be sending out any real value. You send out value for players without glaring flaws.

Shaquille O'Neal had flaws. He was a horrible FT shooter and had basically no offensive game outside of 5 feet. You wouldn't have sent out real value to acquire him if you had the chance?

C'mon.

This isn't a serious reply.

ChiefKeith91 · Post #1814 » by **ChiefKeith91** » Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:03 am

Klomp wrote:
SO_MONEY wrote:If we can only get a player because they are flawed you shouldn't be sending out any real value. You send out value for players without glaring flaws.

Shaquille O'Neal had flaws. He was a horrible FT shooter and had basically no offensive game outside of 5 feet. You wouldn't have sent out real value to acquire him if you had the chance?

The FT was the only flaw and he made up with it by still getting 30 and 18. He didn’t need a game outside of 5 feet because of the NBA style of play (Bigs were Bigs). You really tried it lmao

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jpatrick · Post #1815 » by **jpatrick** » Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:55 am

Simmons may be showing he’s not good enough offensively to be a #2 on a championship team. However, he’s still averaged 16/8/8 on very good efficiency and was one of the top five defenders in the league.

I wouldn’t trade Towns, Edwards, or a top three pick in this draft for him. But he’s still a very good player. As the number three on this team, not bad, especially on the defensive end.

Mattya · Post #1816 » by **Mattya** » Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:09 am

I would trade for Simmons and I would trade our top 3 pick for him too, but that’s more because the top of this draft looks very mediocre.

Slim Tubby · Post #1817 » by **Slim Tubby** » Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:16 am

Klomp wrote:Ben Simmons or John Collins on max contract?

That’s actually really hard for me to decide. Maybe the question is do we need more defense (Simmons) or more offense (Collins)?

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packforfreedom · Post #1818 » by **packforfreedom** » Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:04 am

Klomp wrote:
SO_MONEY wrote:If we can only get a player because they are flawed you shouldn't be sending out any real value. You send out value for players without glaring flaws.

Shaquille O'Neal had flaws. He was a horrible FT shooter and had basically no offensive game outside of 5 feet. You wouldn't have sent out real value to acquire him if you had the chance?

jesus

Post #1819 » by **Domejandro** » Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:20 am

I love all of you indignantly bemoaning Klomp’s exaggerated example by saying “Shaq was amazing at all these things,” when that is literally Klomp’s point with Ben Simmons. The dude is NBA All-Defensive First Team, is a highly efficient scorer, despite the lack of range, is an elite passer, and excellent ball-handler. Is he very flawed? Absolutely, but the idea that Minnesota shouldn’t trade for a top three defensive player in the League that can easily guard four positions (and switch five) is preposterous, to me.

Ricky Rubio, Juancho Hernangómez, Jarrett Culver, and top three pick is a no-brainer.

D’Angelo Russell / Jordan McLaughlin
Malik Beasley / Jaylen Nowell
Anthony Edwards / Josh Okogie / Jake Layman
Ben Simmons / Jaden McDaniels
Karl-Anthony Towns / Naz Reid / Jarred Vanderbilt (RFA)

Yeah, I pretty clearly prefer that to the NBA Draft mystery box. Insane switch-ability in that roster, I could easily write out ten different lineups, if I was not on mobile.

Imagine Draymond Green’s career if he wasn’t with Golden State, and imagine Golden State without him. In the above roster, Ben Simmons would always be the fourth or fifth option, which would be insane.

packforfreedom · Post #1820 » by **packforfreedom** » Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:44 am

Domejandro wrote:I love all of you indignantly bemoaning Klomp’s exaggerated example by saying “Shaq was amazing at all these things,” when that is literally Klomp’s point with Ben Simmons.

context matters. Shaq played in a time and at a position in which his weaknesses were compensated more than enough by his strenghts. Nobody expected center to shoot jumpers and even hack a Shaq had little effect. Sure he would've been even more dominant if he could make them but that's about it.

Simmons is a perimeter player who can't shoot in a shooters league. And he isn't even a bad shooter he's essentialy a non-shooter. The effect of this weakness is that he's such a liability on offense that his elite defense can't make up for it.

So not all weaknesses are equal and I am often just annoyed when Klomp goes into discussion with such unrelated takes, that are missing any context.