Re: Trade Talk (Part Twelve): 2023 Playoff Push Edition

[shrink]

I know that people that want KAT traded focus on his injuries the last four seasons (and usually ignore the first four seasons), but is there any evidence whatsoever that his injuries are correlated?

Or is there any evidence that these injuries are likely to lead to future injuries?

I have never seen evidence that either of these are true, but that’s the implication I hear often.

It speaks to conditioning as a whole. But also, some players are just injury prone.

I don’t know man.

KAT had never missed a game with a calf injury in seven years. Kind of hard for me to think that suddenly his calf wasn’t properly conditioned, or that his calf got hurt because he’s suddenly injury prone.

If it’s back - back - back, or left knee - left knee - left knee, I think that’s a legitimate case. And I understand compensation injuries. But random injuries are random. I think that labeling random injuries as injury-prone is a myth that people use when they see an effect and want to create a simplistic cause.

[thinktank]

I know that people that want KAT traded focus on his injuries the last four seasons (and usually ignore the first four seasons), but is there any evidence whatsoever that his injuries are correlated?

Or is there any evidence that these injuries are likely to lead to future injuries?

I have never seen evidence that either of these are true, but that’s the implication I hear often.

It speaks to conditioning as a whole. But also, some players are just injury prone.

I don’t know man.

KAT had never missed a game with a calf injury in seven years. Kind of hard for me to think that suddenly his calf wasn’t properly conditioned, or that his calf got hurt because he’s suddenly injury prone.

If it’s back - back - back, or left knee - left knee - left knee, I think that’s a legitimate case. And I understand compensation injuries. But random injuries are random. I think that labeling random injuries as injury-prone is a myth that people use when they see an effect and want to create a simplistic cause.

What if his injuries are related to general awkwardness?

The guy sure flails around out there plenty.

[shrink]

It speaks to conditioning as a whole. But also, some players are just injury prone.

I don’t know man.

KAT had never missed a game with a calf injury in seven years. Kind of hard for me to think that suddenly his calf wasn’t properly conditioned, or that his calf got hurt because he’s suddenly injury prone.

If it’s back - back - back, or left knee - left knee - left knee, I think that’s a legitimate case. And I understand compensation injuries. But random injuries are random. I think that labeling random injuries as injury-prone is a myth that people use when they see an effect and want to create a simplistic cause.

What if his injuries are related to general awkwardness?

The guy sure flails around out there plenty.

Seems like another effect choosing a cause. For example, awkwardness didn’t cause him to miss games with Covid. Or did he suddenly get awkward after four years without missing a game?

[thinktank]

I don’t know man.

KAT had never missed a game with a calf injury in seven years. Kind of hard for me to think that suddenly his calf wasn’t properly conditioned, or that his calf got hurt because he’s suddenly injury prone.

If it’s back - back - back, or left knee - left knee - left knee, I think that’s a legitimate case. And I understand compensation injuries. But random injuries are random. I think that labeling random injuries as injury-prone is a myth that people use when they see an effect and want to create a simplistic cause.

What if his injuries are related to general awkwardness?

The guy sure flails around out there plenty.

Seems like another effect choosing a cause. For example, awkwardness didn’t cause him to miss games with Covid.

Obviously I’m not talking about the few games he missed due to covid.

[m2002brian]

I know that people that want KAT traded focus on his injuries the last four seasons (and usually ignore the first four seasons), but is there any evidence whatsoever that his injuries are correlated?

Or is there any evidence that these injuries are likely to lead to future injuries?

I have never seen evidence that either of these are true, but that’s the implication I hear often.

It speaks to conditioning as a whole. But also, some players are just injury prone.

I don’t know man.

KAT had never missed a game with a calf injury in seven years. Kind of hard for me to think that suddenly his calf wasn’t properly conditioned, or that his calf got hurt because he’s suddenly injury prone.

If it’s back - back - back, or left knee - left knee - left knee, I think that’s a legitimate case .

If you watch how he injured his calf. It was from bad mechanics. He was taking off down the floor flat footed. Any one who understands the mechanics of running knows thats a no no. It may just be a one off thing. But for some reason he’s not been able to stay healthy. That had to matter to some degree. Now just imagine you can trade KAT, get a decent PF, AND an actual almost starting level PG to play with Mike.

KAT is far more talented than Tom Gugliotta, but Tom was just so consistent and reliable, you knew what you were going get. That means a lot. The game is much more than just the physical things we see. There’s a whole other mental / physiological side of the game that tends to get ignored around here.


Edit:
You can also note that his first four years he was playing a lot more in the post. That means mess driving. Driving means running into people (see offensive charges stats). More three pointers (see video of kicking out). Big guys, big legs, driving and cutting.

[BasketballAnon]

Minnesota is in a real bad position and it seems like it's going to be a hard rest of the decade before they get out of it. That Gobert trade may end up being one of the worst trades in NBA history.

[KGdaBom]

Getting to the playoffs is not the ultimate goal. We shouldn’t be designing the team to get to the playoffs. We should be designing the team to win a championship. We should be designing a team to use that 50/year as best as we can.

You can't design a team to win a championship. You design a team to be as good as possible and then what happens happens.

Some GMs have choices to make between being ok every year and being very, very good for a short time and then rebuilding.

Everybody wants to be good, but teams absolutely do make risk-it-all moves to win a championship. Phoenix is an extreme example.

I’m not saying let’s risk it all for a chip now. We’re not Phoenix.

But we have to set our sights higher. Connelly just talked about this on kfan with Danny B. KAT talks like he’s a winner but he isn’t. I don’t like that type of “leadership” at that price.

Of course every team sets their sights on winning a title. Philly did that with the process. How did it work out?
You can't design a team to win a championship. You make it as good as you can and what happens happens. Phoenix is hoping to win a title, but I would heavily bet against it happening. On rare occasions a team is so good that a championship is a foregone conclusion like when Durant joined Golden State.

[minimus]

Read on Twitter

Garland is already an elite shooter. But. I truly believe that Anfernee Simons have star potential, and might be the best shooter who can be in theory available if Dame wants POR to make a big move.

[KGdaBom]

Minnesota is in a real bad position and it seems like it's going to be a hard rest of the decade before they get out of it. That Gobert trade may end up being one of the worst trades in NBA history.

LMAO Troll. We have one of the most talented teams in the league and we are a threat to win it all. Go away.

[Baseline81]

I apologize if this was posted yesterday:

Read on Twitter

[Devilzsidewalk]

It speaks to conditioning as a whole. But also, some players are just injury prone.

I don’t know man.

KAT had never missed a game with a calf injury in seven years. Kind of hard for me to think that suddenly his calf wasn’t properly conditioned, or that his calf got hurt because he’s suddenly injury prone.

If it’s back - back - back, or left knee - left knee - left knee, I think that’s a legitimate case .

If you watch how he injured his calf. It was from bad mechanics. He was taking off down the floor flat footed. Any one who understands the mechanics of running knows thats a no no. It may just be a one off thing. But for some reason he’s not been able to stay healthy. That had to matter to some degree. Now just imagine you can trade KAT, get a decent PF, AND an actual almost starting level PG to play with Mike.

KAT is far more talented than Tom Gugliotta, but Tom was just so consistent and reliable, you knew what you were going get. That means a lot. The game is much more than just the physical things we see. There’s a whole other mental / physiological side of the game that tends to get ignored around here.


Edit:
You can also note that his first four years he was playing a lot more in the post. That means mess driving. Driving means running into people (see offensive charges stats). More three pointers (see video of kicking out). Big guys, big legs, driving and cutting.

I always felt like KAT's conditioning peaked around 2018. Ever since then, he's appeared a little less lean and his movement a little more lurch-y and heavy-footed. That was around the time his ironman status was revoked as well. Probably just coincidence. But he definitely has another untapped level of conditioning in him.

[shrink]

I apologize if this was posted yesterday:

Read on Twitter

This had to be based on a Taurean Prince trade.

Now it’s pretty much impossible to salary match

[BlacJacMac]

I apologize if this was posted yesterday:

Read on Twitter

It was. But the idea basically died with Prince's option not being picked up.

[KGdaBom]

I apologize if this was posted yesterday:

Read on Twitter

I would be fine with either of them, but what's it going to cost us.

[shangrila]

It speaks to conditioning as a whole. But also, some players are just injury prone.

I don’t know man.

KAT had never missed a game with a calf injury in seven years. Kind of hard for me to think that suddenly his calf wasn’t properly conditioned, or that his calf got hurt because he’s suddenly injury prone.

If it’s back - back - back, or left knee - left knee - left knee, I think that’s a legitimate case .

If you watch how he injured his calf. It was from bad mechanics. He was taking off down the floor flat footed. Any one who understands the mechanics of running knows thats a no no. It may just be a one off thing. But for some reason he’s not been able to stay healthy. That had to matter to some degree. Now just imagine you can trade KAT, get a decent PF, AND an actual almost starting level PG to play with Mike.

KAT is far more talented than Tom Gugliotta, but Tom was just so consistent and reliable, you knew what you were going get. That means a lot. The game is much more than just the physical things we see. There’s a whole other mental / physiological side of the game that tends to get ignored around here.


Edit:
You can also note that his first four years he was playing a lot more in the post. That means mess driving. Driving means running into people (see offensive charges stats). More three pointers (see video of kicking out). Big guys, big legs, driving and cutting.

Agreed.

It seems foolish to brush off his constant injuries as just coincidences or bad luck. Sure, it's less concerning than if he constantly blew out one or both of his ACLs but regardless of HOW it's happening, it's clear at this point that Towns is injury prone.

[thinktank]

You can't design a team to win a championship. You design a team to be as good as possible and then what happens happens.

Some GMs have choices to make between being ok every year and being very, very good for a short time and then rebuilding.

Everybody wants to be good, but teams absolutely do make risk-it-all moves to win a championship. Phoenix is an extreme example.

I’m not saying let’s risk it all for a chip now. We’re not Phoenix.

But we have to set our sights higher. Connelly just talked about this on kfan with Danny B. KAT talks like he’s a winner but he isn’t. I don’t like that type of “leadership” at that price.

Of course every team sets their sights on winning a title. Philly did that with the process. How did it work out?
You can't design a team to win a championship. You make it as good as you can and what happens happens. Phoenix is hoping to win a title, but I would heavily bet against it happening. On rare occasions a team is so good that a championship is a foregone conclusion like when Durant joined Golden State.

Well, sir, my opinion is that we’ll have better odds of winning a playoff series if we trade KAT.

[twolves31]

I apologize if this was posted yesterday:

Read on Twitter

This had to be based on a Taurean Prince trade.

Now it’s pretty much impossible to salary match

I think it could still work with a Jaylen Nowell sign and trade, if that was something both Jaylen and Washington was interested in.

[KGdaBom]

Some GMs have choices to make between being ok every year and being very, very good for a short time and then rebuilding.

Everybody wants to be good, but teams absolutely do make risk-it-all moves to win a championship. Phoenix is an extreme example.

I’m not saying let’s risk it all for a chip now. We’re not Phoenix.

But we have to set our sights higher. Connelly just talked about this on kfan with Danny B. KAT talks like he’s a winner but he isn’t. I don’t like that type of “leadership” at that price.

Of course every team sets their sights on winning a title. Philly did that with the process. How did it work out?
You can't design a team to win a championship. You make it as good as you can and what happens happens. Phoenix is hoping to win a title, but I would heavily bet against it happening. On rare occasions a team is so good that a championship is a foregone conclusion like when Durant joined Golden State.

Well, sir, my opinion is that we’ll have better odds of winning a playoff series if we trade KAT.

if we trade him for Luka Doncic I agree with you. If we trade him for Kris Murray and Anfernee Simons I vehemently disagree with you. It all depends on what we could get. However, we could keep him and if we stay healthy we can win it all with what we got.

[BlacJacMac]

I apologize if this was posted yesterday:

Read on Twitter

This had to be based on a Taurean Prince trade.

Now it’s pretty much impossible to salary match

I think it could still work with a Jaylen Nowell sign and trade, if that was something both Jaylen and Washington was interested in.

I'm sure Nowell would do backflips.

Not sure why Washington would want to drastically overpay Nowell just to dump an expiring PG.

[Note30]

Minnesota is in a real bad position and it seems like it's going to be a hard rest of the decade before they get out of it. That Gobert trade may end up being one of the worst trades in NBA history.

LMAO Troll. We have one of the most talented teams in the league and we are a threat to win it all. Go away.

Except he's not wrong.

Unless we've proven to be a really strong team by the trade deadline, we're gonna be a run of the mill team with no way to get better after Towns new contract kicks in. And Towns himself will have little to no trade value when that contract kicks in.

We need a long term solution at PG and we don't have the cap space to sign one, and most PGs available are kinda terrible or we can't afford them.

We're a team with no flexibility that has bet all of its flexibility on a trade for a player with no flexibility.