Butler has requested a trade, the saga continues

[SO_MONEY]

I think Butler's price decreases with the time.
So at the current situation Whiteside + Winslow would be an acceptable deal for me

Just let him walk if that is the best we can get.

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[karch34]

I think there is a tendency to like one good player, and dismiss a bad contract attached to him in the package.

For example, we all like Josh Richardson at three years, $10 mil a year.

However, no one should like Richardson plus Dion Waiters. That package costs $22 mil a year for three years. Waiters is awful, and it’s hard to look at Richardson alone as a $22 mil player, at least at this point in his career.

Great point. Taking the "goal" of moving Dieng out of the picture, I think we're going to have a negative value contract included regardless (Dieng ensures it IMO). That's been a big part of my liking Philly idea that even if Fultz is the bad contract it's not Waiters level bad and there's still a chance for upside.

Fultz only makes 1/3 of Jimmy money. You need a lot more coming back.

Currently Richardson is at 2.1 BPM, 24% usage and .134 WS48 while playing above 280 minutes.

Its early in the season but this is the complete list of players with those numbers so far.

Richarson is only one year older than the youngest. I think he definetly is worth 20M for the next 3 seasons.

My point was that if the main piece was JRich or RoCo then i would prefer the "bad" contract be the 20 year old on 3/$25 who was the clear #1 pick 18 months ago that even if his shot mysteriously disappered can still provide other things vs. the 26 year old on 3/$35 who's out of shape and only had only one good stretch as a chucker only player in a contract year.

[Neeva]

Covington has been horrible this season.

[TwolvesFanRome]

J.Richardson Whiteside FRP

Butler Dieng


Repeat like a mantra....

[shrink]

Jimmy played the two LA games. Just let him stay at home in California, and give the team a chance to re-set without his drama.

[PharmD]

Here’s an interesting fact that you can give people who talk about all the “heavy minutes” Butler has played, and all the wear and tear that makes a 5th year such a bad contract.

As many of you know, Jimmy spent four years in college, and he rode the bench for 1.5 years under Thibs, until Luol Dieng got injured in early 2013. At that age, Jimmy had played less than 1000 NBA minutes. At the same age, Wiggins had played almost 11,000 more minutes.

Two guys that are the same age (29) right now as Jimmy, (Harden and DeRozan) have played over 23,000 minutes versus Jimmy’s 15. Most people tell you it’s because Jimmy gets injured all the time under Thibs, but that ignores the main fact. Jimmy has missed 800 more minutes than Derozan since he became a starter, but the gap is 8 THOUSAND. Jimmy plays harder in his minutes, but Derozan and Harden were both subjected to very heavy workloads at a far earlier age than Jimmy. People should be talking more about “a lot of miles on those bodies,” rather than Jimmy’s.

Do we have any evidence that minutes played is meaningful other than as a way to accumulate injuries? Seems like straight up age is a much better predictor of decline.

[shrink]

Here’s an interesting fact that you can give people who talk about all the “heavy minutes” Butler has played, and all the wear and tear that makes a 5th year such a bad contract.

As many of you know, Jimmy spent four years in college, and he rode the bench for 1.5 years under Thibs, until Luol Dieng got injured in early 2013. At that age, Jimmy had played less than 1000 NBA minutes. At the same age, Wiggins had played almost 11,000 more minutes.

Two guys that are the same age (29) right now as Jimmy, (Harden and DeRozan) have played over 23,000 minutes versus Jimmy’s 15. Most people tell you it’s because Jimmy gets injured all the time under Thibs, but that ignores the main fact. Jimmy has missed 800 more minutes than Derozan since he became a starter, but the gap is 8 THOUSAND. Jimmy plays harder in his minutes, but Derozan and Harden were both subjected to very heavy workloads at a far earlier age than Jimmy. People should be talking more about “a lot of miles on those bodies,” rather than Jimmy’s.

Do we have any evidence that minutes played is meaningful other than as a way to accumulate injuries? Seems like straight up age is a much better predictor of decline.

That’s a great question. I don’t know how you split up age versus minutes for the majority of players.

What players do we know that are/were high in age and lower in minutes, or vice versa .. but were never injured?

People believe Thibs high minutes strategy ended Noah, Deng and Rose’s career early, but these were because the players picked up injuries. And are higher minutes per year predict a shorter career, or total combined minutes over a career?

These are important questions for Wolves fans, not just for Butler, but the huge minutes that Wiggins and Towns have played, nearly injury-free, at such an early age. I emailed John Hollinger, who has spoken at Sloan on big minutes causing injuries. If I get a response, I will post it here. Good question.

[Killboard]

Great point. Taking the "goal" of moving Dieng out of the picture, I think we're going to have a negative value contract included regardless (Dieng ensures it IMO). That's been a big part of my liking Philly idea that even if Fultz is the bad contract it's not Waiters level bad and there's still a chance for upside.

Fultz only makes 1/3 of Jimmy money. You need a lot more coming back.

Currently Richardson is at 2.1 BPM, 24% usage and .134 WS48 while playing above 280 minutes.

Its early in the season but this is the complete list of players with those numbers so far.

Richarson is only one year older than the youngest. I think he definetly is worth 20M for the next 3 seasons.

My point was that if the main piece was JRich or RoCo then i would prefer the "bad" contract be the 20 year old on 3/$25 who was the clear #1 pick 18 months ago that even if his shot mysteriously disappered can still provide other things vs. the 26 year old on 3/$35 who's out of shape and only had only one good stretch as a chucker only player in a contract year.

Sure, and he has a team option on the 4th season too. I don't think Philly is ready but should be a good trade for us.

[mplsfonz23]

Here’s an interesting fact that you can give people who talk about all the “heavy minutes” Butler has played, and all the wear and tear that makes a 5th year such a bad contract.

As many of you know, Jimmy spent four years in college, and he rode the bench for 1.5 years under Thibs, until Luol Dieng got injured in early 2013. At that age, Jimmy had played less than 1000 NBA minutes. At the same age, Wiggins had played almost 11,000 more minutes.

Two guys that are the same age (29) right now as Jimmy, (Harden and DeRozan) have played over 23,000 minutes versus Jimmy’s 15. Most people tell you it’s because Jimmy gets injured all the time under Thibs, but that ignores the main fact. Jimmy has missed 800 more minutes than Derozan since he became a starter, but the gap is 8 THOUSAND. Jimmy plays harder in his minutes, but Derozan and Harden were both subjected to very heavy workloads at a far earlier age than Jimmy. People should be talking more about “a lot of miles on those bodies,” rather than Jimmy’s.

Do we have any evidence that minutes played is meaningful other than as a way to accumulate injuries? Seems like straight up age is a much better predictor of decline.

And Injuries.

[mplsfonz23]

I think we are all dreaming now about what we will get back for JB. He is damaging the product. GM's are talking and wondering if this is the "real" Jimmy? Right now he needs to go into damage control, keep his face out of the media, and play ball EVERY game before we get a good/ decent deal. It's up to him. His ego thinks the NBA loves him, but he may be wrong. The NBA players might, but the players don't pay the salary.

[Klomp]

I think we are all dreaming now about what we will get back for JB. He is damaging the product. GM's are talking and wondering if this is the "real" Jimmy? Right now he needs to go into damage control, keep his face out of the media, and play ball EVERY game before we get a good/ decent deal. It's up to him. His ego thinks the NBA loves him, but he may be wrong. The NBA players might, but the players don't pay the salary.

I loved hearing what Mark Jackson had to say last night about it.

[Calinks]

I think we are all dreaming now about what we will get back for JB. He is damaging the product. GM's are talking and wondering if this is the "real" Jimmy? Right now he needs to go into damage control, keep his face out of the media, and play ball EVERY game before we get a good/ decent deal. It's up to him. His ego thinks the NBA loves him, but he may be wrong. The NBA players might, but the players don't pay the salary.

I loved hearing what Mark Jackson had to say last night about it.

I wonder if he's auditioning. He totally took the wolves side and he was speaking really highly of Wiggins.

[Worm Guts]

Here’s an interesting fact that you can give people who talk about all the “heavy minutes” Butler has played, and all the wear and tear that makes a 5th year such a bad contract.

As many of you know, Jimmy spent four years in college, and he rode the bench for 1.5 years under Thibs, until Luol Dieng got injured in early 2013. At that age, Jimmy had played less than 1000 NBA minutes. At the same age, Wiggins had played almost 11,000 more minutes.

Two guys that are the same age (29) right now as Jimmy, (Harden and DeRozan) have played over 23,000 minutes versus Jimmy’s 15. Most people tell you it’s because Jimmy gets injured all the time under Thibs, but that ignores the main fact. Jimmy has missed 800 more minutes than Derozan since he became a starter, but the gap is 8 THOUSAND. Jimmy plays harder in his minutes, but Derozan and Harden were both subjected to very heavy workloads at a far earlier age than Jimmy. People should be talking more about “a lot of miles on those bodies,” rather than Jimmy’s.

Do we have any evidence that minutes played is meaningful other than as a way to accumulate injuries? Seems like straight up age is a much better predictor of decline.

A few years back on the Player Comparisons board I saw a post where the decline of several players was looked at and it appeared that there was a correlation with minutes played. It seemed someone had put significant analysis into this and I thought it was compelling. It was also several years ago and I don't remember any of the details.

[mplsfonz23]

I think we are all dreaming now about what we will get back for JB. He is damaging the product. GM's are talking and wondering if this is the "real" Jimmy? Right now he needs to go into damage control, keep his face out of the media, and play ball EVERY game before we get a good/ decent deal. It's up to him. His ego thinks the NBA loves him, but he may be wrong. The NBA players might, but the players don't pay the salary.

I loved hearing what Mark Jackson had to say last night about it.

I wonder if he's auditioning. He totally took the wolves side and he was speaking really highly of Wiggins.

Can anyone sum it up for me? Didn't see it.
Thx

Edit** I found some news, and he's right, if anyone else was doing what he's doing, he'd call them out. He thinks he's going to shed his diva image by renting Tyus a plane? I wonder if he will chew him out for skipping a practice.
It's about time someone call his ass out on national TV, I bet ESPN doesn't want anything to do with him anymore.

[NattaNerNutta]

I missed the Jackson comments. But I did catch Billups saying a lot of nice things about KAT and Wiggins. Maybe he's eying our GM position?

[mplsfonz23]

I missed the Jackson comments. But I did catch Billups saying a lot of nice things about KAT and Wiggins. Maybe he's eying our GM position?

Billups for GM and Jackson for a coach.

I like that however, will Taylor be willing to pay top dollar, to them while still paying off Thib-iso?

[Domejandro]

I missed the Jackson comments. But I did catch Billups saying a lot of nice things about KAT and Wiggins. Maybe he's eying our GM position?

Billups for GM and Jackson for a coach.

I like that however, will Taylor be willing to pay top dollar, to them while still paying off Thib-iso?

Mark Jackson is **** abysmal as a coach and person, absolutely not.

[DaBeard]

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[Domejandro]

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Ignoring the off-court stuff, his on-court play is the primary reason for that start, so he can kindly go **** himself. Suspend him with pay and let him lose his money.

[shrink]

There’s “belief around the NBA” that both Philadelphia and Miami could “re-emerge” in discussions with the Timberwolves to potentially deal for the 29-year-old forward, according to a report from The Athletic (Shams).