Trade Talk (Part 15): Trade Deadline Day (and onwards!)

[minimus]

Clark is scoring well/very well in the G

Well, I dont see it. Neither volume, neither shot creation. The difference between g-league and NBA has showed TJ Shannon by scoring 34 pts, shooting only 4 threes and using mostly left hand. The bar for Clark if he wants to be in MIN rotation is NAWs performance: around 10PPG on 45-45-80 shooting with excellent PoA defense.

Can we agree he has excellent POA defense? I am honestly asking as for me that is his best feature. Moving on to offense, how likely is Clark to be shooting with volume? I mean how many shot attempts does NAW average per game? BB reference says 6.1 with 3.4 3PAs per game. If Clark can hit an open corner 3 at 35% that is good enough to function as a poor man’s NAW. It is interesting enough to at least get some minutes off the bench as the season progresses. Remember we could sign him to a 4 year Naz Reid type contract and have him dirt cheap. I haven’t been watching him in the G, but if his numbers are even a little translatable, he could be a 5th offensive option and a solid defender.

Clark is not an excellent PoA defender in NBA, at least not yet. He is a good gap help defender and he rotates/anticipates well in defense, but he has a lot to learn as PoA defender in NBA. From what I see in his g-league games he takes mostly wide open threes, mostly from corners, much less ATB threes. With MIN new offense he has to bomb from three point line. I am his big fan, but it looks like he is currently developing some rhythm by playing regularly basketball, shooting threes in game, getting back in good physical shape. It is like stage 1 for him. Next stage will be showing improvements in his offensive game: but usually it can be expected after first full off-season.

[minimus]

At this point, I'd trade talent (Randle) for execution and discipline. Chemistry wise the easiest way to replace Randle is to bring a movement shooter such as Cameron Johnson, keep 3PA as high as possible and build Utah Jazz 2.0. I'd strongly avoid guys like John Collins who dont have a clearly defined role in offense and no defense.

Randle for Tobias Harris and Paul Reed?

Gobert/Reed/Garza
Reid/Harris/Minott/Miller
MCD/Minott/TJ/Ingles
Edwards/NAW/DDV + Clark
DDV/Conley/Dillingham + Nix

[shrink]

I appreciate hearing your reasons. I think the potential Gobert injury is the one that actually holds the most water. But then, is a Dayron Sharpe really going to make the difference?!

We’re getting killed whenever Rudy goes to the bench, with neither Randle nor Naz able to play center at all. Even if Sharpe is just underneath defending and banging for rebounds, it helps Naz and Randle play more PF, where they are both much much better.

Ditto for losing NAW. NAW has been great, but in order to get our SG’s Ant, DiVincenzo, and NAW enough minutes, they are forced to play out of position too, mostly playing PG.

My point isn’t that a guy like Day’Ron will outperform NAW specifically, but that he could make a Day’Ron TEAM outperform a NAW TEAM, by helping other players do more of what they do best.

I get what you are saying. I just don't know that the minutes are really there.

From my perspective again, adding a center means cutting minutes from Gobert, Reid or Randle.
-You don't want to cut Gobert's minutes, since his time on the bench is when the issues arise.
-Reid is already under 25 minutes, roughly the same as where it was last year. Probably shouldn't drop.
-There's room to drop Randle's time I suppose, but I think there's a clear need for his offense. If you're looking at extension talks, dropping his minutes isn't a way to entice him to stick around. And if you aren't looking at extending, you probably need to look at trading him instead of letting him walk for nothing.

That's actually why I think to make a clear change, it might have to be through a bigger trade that probably includes Randle.

You’re not just cutting any minute. You’re cutting statistically BAD minutes, when Naz or Randle is stuck playing center.

[Norseman79]

I'm telling you the Houston Rockets make the most sense. Smith and Adams have underperformed and would step in to fill needs. While not being ball dominant and a plus defensively and rebounding.

In a second trade you move NAW to Toronto for Davion Mitchell.

In my opinion the other option is to find a really good starting point guard and offer Randle and whatever else to get him.

[frankenwolf]

I'm telling you the Houston Rockets make the most sense. Smith and Adams have underperformed and would step in to fill needs. While not being ball dominant and a plus defensively and rebounding.

In a second trade you move NAW to Toronto for Davion Mitchell.

In my opinion the other option is to find a really good starting point guard and offer Randle and whatever else to get him.

Why would Houston trade Adams and Smith? Or were you saying one or the other?

[shrink]

I'm telling you the Houston Rockets make the most sense. Smith and Adams have underperformed and would step in to fill needs. While not being ball dominant and a plus defensively and rebounding.

I think you’re right, the Rockets are a possible trade partner. HOU is #3 in the West, and said publicly on Monday that they are ready to do some star-hunting. The media talked about Giannis, but it is highly unlikely he gets traded during the season. Randle isn’t the type of guy that internet boards think of as a star, but we constantly see front offices pay big salaries, or make big trade offers, for players of Randle’s caliber. All Star and All NBA players draw in fans.

I think they are a realistic trade partner in the unlikely event we deal Randle, but even if that happens, it likely would come until later.

[winforlose]

I'm telling you the Houston Rockets make the most sense. Smith and Adams have underperformed and would step in to fill needs. While not being ball dominant and a plus defensively and rebounding.

I think you’re right, the Rockets are a possible trade partner. HOU is #3 in the West, and said publicly on Monday that they are ready to do some star-hunting. The media talked about Giannis, but it is highly unlikely he gets traded during the season. Randle isn’t the type of guy that internet boards think of as a star, but we constantly see front offices pay big salaries, or make big trade offers, for players of Randle’s caliber. All Star and All NBA players draw in fans.

I think they are a realistic trade partner in the unlikely event we deal Randle, but even if that happens, it likely would come until later.

Rudy was brought in to allow Karl to play the 4. He was part of the KAT window. Rudy doesn’t fit well with Ant and should not be part of the Ant window. This is the reason I said trading KAT was a prelude to trading Rudy. Ant needs 5 out, high pace, and know your role teammates. Rudy is none of these things. If we have moved into the Ant era (really no dispute anymore,) then Rudy is a poor fit. So we need to trade him. But I don’t think we can this year because of the new contract. This team is poorly constructed in that it lacks depth at the 1 and the 5, and has useless deep bench guys like Dozier and Garza and is not spending enough time on bringing along guys like Minott and Miller. If we are going to lose anyway, bench Rudy and Randle for 3 games based on that stunt, and get some run for the next wave. Either way the locker room is broken, the coaching is substandard and the roster is poorly constructed. Not fatal, but not good.

[Slim Tubby]

I'm telling you the Houston Rockets make the most sense. Smith and Adams have underperformed and would step in to fill needs. While not being ball dominant and a plus defensively and rebounding.

I think you’re right, the Rockets are a possible trade partner. HOU is #3 in the West, and said publicly on Monday that they are ready to do some star-hunting. The media talked about Giannis, but it is highly unlikely he gets traded during the season. Randle isn’t the type of guy that internet boards think of as a star, but we constantly see front offices pay big salaries, or make big trade offers, for players of Randle’s caliber. All Star and All NBA players draw in fans.

I think they are a realistic trade partner in the unlikely event we deal Randle, but even if that happens, it likely would come until later.

Unless the team trading for Randle is just looking to clear cap space for 2025, it's going to be very difficult to extract any value for him unless they already know what kind of contract Julius is looking for.

I'm all in on the Cam Johnson/Zaire trade from Minimus but I just don't see why the Nets would do it.

Sent from my N152DL using RealGM mobile app

[Norseman79]

Rockets need to include Adams and Smith for salary reasons. Plus, Randle slots in as their starting 4. As stated, both players have underperformed this year and this gives all sides a quick reset.

[jscott]

76ers are reportedly looking for a PF.

[TimberKat]

I'm telling you the Houston Rockets make the most sense. Smith and Adams have underperformed and would step in to fill needs. While not being ball dominant and a plus defensively and rebounding.

I think you’re right, the Rockets are a possible trade partner. HOU is #3 in the West, and said publicly on Monday that they are ready to do some star-hunting. The media talked about Giannis, but it is highly unlikely he gets traded during the season. Randle isn’t the type of guy that internet boards think of as a star, but we constantly see front offices pay big salaries, or make big trade offers, for players of Randle’s caliber. All Star and All NBA players draw in fans.

I think they are a realistic trade partner in the unlikely event we deal Randle, but even if that happens, it likely would come until later.

Rudy was brought in to allow Karl to play the 4. He was part of the KAT window. Rudy doesn’t fit well with Ant and should not be part of the Ant window. This is the reason I said trading KAT was a prelude to trading Rudy. Ant needs 5 out, high pace, and know your role teammates. Rudy is none of these things. If we have moved into the Ant era (really no dispute anymore,) then Rudy is a poor fit. So we need to trade him. But I don’t think we can this year because of the new contract. This team is poorly constructed in that it lacks depth at the 1 and the 5, and has useless deep bench guys like Dozier and Garza and is not spending enough time on bringing along guys like Minott and Miller. If we are going to lose anyway, bench Rudy and Randle for 3 games based on that stunt, and get some run for the next wave. Either way the locker room is broken, the coaching is substandard and the roster is poorly constructed. Not fatal, but not good.

Rudy is a poor fit if you don't have facilitator. Ant doesn't need 5 out. We play that way because he suck at other schemes. I would argue any player - DLo, Poole, or Beal would have better stats if their team just play 5 out and let them dribble the ball to death. It's time we also hold Ant accountable as he took some bad shots lately and the ball is too sticky. Rudy has career low in everything but I also think he is having career low with touches per game. So, agree with Gobert/Towns part as I always think Towns is better fit as a 4. Ant/Gobert can work but really it isn't about that. Ant and another all star is what we need. Also, Ant needs to be a better enabler to make the game easier for everyone.

[TimberKat]

76ers are reportedly looking for a PF.

What does Philly has to offer that would make it work? I am keep Randle on the bench if it's just a salary dump.

[winforlose]

I think you’re right, the Rockets are a possible trade partner. HOU is #3 in the West, and said publicly on Monday that they are ready to do some star-hunting. The media talked about Giannis, but it is highly unlikely he gets traded during the season. Randle isn’t the type of guy that internet boards think of as a star, but we constantly see front offices pay big salaries, or make big trade offers, for players of Randle’s caliber. All Star and All NBA players draw in fans.

I think they are a realistic trade partner in the unlikely event we deal Randle, but even if that happens, it likely would come until later.

Rudy was brought in to allow Karl to play the 4. He was part of the KAT window. Rudy doesn’t fit well with Ant and should not be part of the Ant window. This is the reason I said trading KAT was a prelude to trading Rudy. Ant needs 5 out, high pace, and know your role teammates. Rudy is none of these things. If we have moved into the Ant era (really no dispute anymore,) then Rudy is a poor fit. So we need to trade him. But I don’t think we can this year because of the new contract. This team is poorly constructed in that it lacks depth at the 1 and the 5, and has useless deep bench guys like Dozier and Garza and is not spending enough time on bringing along guys like Minott and Miller. If we are going to lose anyway, bench Rudy and Randle for 3 games based on that stunt, and get some run for the next wave. Either way the locker room is broken, the coaching is substandard and the roster is poorly constructed. Not fatal, but not good.

Rudy is a poor fit if you don't have facilitator. Ant doesn't need 5 out. We play that way because he suck at other schemes. I would argue any player - DLo, Poole, or Beal would have better stats if their team just play 5 out and let them dribble the ball to death. It's time we also hold Ant accountable as he took some bad shots lately and the ball is too sticky. Rudy has career low in everything but I also think he is having career low with touches per game. So, agree with Gobert/Towns part as I always think Towns is better fit as a 4. Ant/Gobert can work but really it isn't about that. Ant and another all star is what we need. Also, Ant needs to be a better enabler to make the game easier for everyone.

I agree that Ant is too sticky with ball, tends to play hero ball, has poor shot selection, and gets tunnel visioned missing the open shooter or the correct pass. I am not saying that anything is Rudy’s fault, except of course the sabotage of last nights game. My point is that trading Rudy and Randle makes sense. You have a blueprint for increasing pace, 3 point volume, and getting Ant more space in the paint. None of that happens with Rudy. Rudy is a good deterrent in the paint, but that only helps if everyone makes the right rotations. KAT made those rotations, Julius does not. Either way with enough POA defenders and a floor spacing big you can accomplish the same result. Rudy fits the KAT Wolves, not the Ant Wolves.

[Calinks]

WTH?

Read on Twitter

[winforlose]

WTH?

Read on Twitter

Source lacks credibility. That said, Donte could have come here in free agency and chose not to. Donte wants to start and play off ball. The worst team he could play for is the Wolves because he can never compete with Ant for starting SG, and Ant doesn’t want to play PG or SF. Connelly ******* up all his moves this offseason with the exception of the #8 pick trade and drafting TSJ. Everything else was off the rails bad and now we are paying for it.

[Calinks]

WTH?

Read on Twitter

Source lacks credibility. That said, Donte could have come here in free agency and chose not to. Donte wants to start and play off ball. The worst team he could play for is the Wolves because he can never compete with Ant for starting SG, and Ant doesn’t want to play PG or SF. Connelly ******* up all his moves this offseason with the exception of the #8 pick trade and drafting TSJ. Everything else was off the rails bad and now we are paying for it.

I just don't get why we would toss him 15 games in. He was a huge part of why we made the trade, doesn't make sense to me. Only exception would be if he's just flat-out demanding a trade.

[winforlose]

WTH?

Read on Twitter

Source lacks credibility. That said, Donte could have come here in free agency and chose not to. Donte wants to start and play off ball. The worst team he could play for is the Wolves because he can never compete with Ant for starting SG, and Ant doesn’t want to play PG or SF. Connelly ******* up all his moves this offseason with the exception of the #8 pick trade and drafting TSJ. Everything else was off the rails bad and now we are paying for it.

I just don't get why we would toss him 15 games in. He was a huge part of why we made the trade, doesn't make sense to me. Only exception would be if he's just flat-out demanding a trade.

There are probably more, but these seem like the best 3.

1. Ant flat out demands they trade him. Maybe personality, maybe something else, but Ant says move him.

2. Some other team wants him badly enough to significantly overpay, and we get a solid player plus a lot of draft capital.

3. He has some kind of injury he hid from the team which explains his poor play, and we want to move him before it gets made public.

I put them in order of plausibility excluding what you said which is the most obvious, he simply doesn’t want to be here and is demanding to leave.

[Calinks]

The first tweet by central was a bit misleading. The original information spells the situation out more clearly. Basically, there is speculation some teams may be interested in trading for Donte. Not that the Timberwolves or Donte have tried to push for any trades. Teams might be smelling some blood in the water which is fair.

Read on Twitter

?s=46

[shrink]

Ever since the new apron rules came out, I wondered if we could trade a vet min deal on a player with less experience for a vet min deal on a player with more years. As many of you know, the vet min salary is higher depending on the number of years a player has in the league. However, for vet min players with two years or more, the teams only pay the portion up to that of a two year vet, and the league subsidizes the rest. Maybe an example is easier.

Joe Ingles has 10 years experience and makes $3.3 mil. PJ Dozier has 6 years, and makes $2.6. However, they both go down on MIN’s books as $2.1, and the rest of their salary is paid by the league.

Why does this matter? When we passed the first apron, we aren’t allow to trade for a player who makes more money, and I wondered if “made more money” meant the actual contract, or the team’s component. I just got confirmation that it’s the latter, which means we can legally trade any of our vet min players for any other vet min, regardless of their years of experience.

[Danimals]

The moment we traded down in talent and fit, while simultaneously not addressing back up PG and C with win now options, this became a step back season. We need to trade Randle for a 4/5 (and draft capital) who can play with Naz or Rudy, then focus on the continued development of our young core and players with potential. And Finch needs to run both and offense and defense that highlights our players strengths and minimizes their weaknesses. Hint, flow offense ain’t it for Ant.