Re: Trade Talk (Part Twelve): 2023 Playoff Push Edition

[Note30]

Nope. Players never improve. Teams never become more cohesive. Draft picks never outperform expectations. Guys never fully recover from injuries. Rule changes never happen in the NBA. Player values never improve. Just shut it down. Move to Seattle or Vegas. All is lost.

The top two players were paying - one has actually never improved he can't even catch a ball, and the other is constantly getting hurt.

We have yet to become more cohesive, since like KG.

Maybe one or two outperform all expectations here, the most bust. Or should we look at our history of draft picks?

The point isnt oh yeah we're all **** lets move the franchise it's to temper expectations. Even last year there were so many posters saying we'd be a 55+ win team.

Then we went 42-40 and we were all disappointed. I'd like to believe we'll crack 50 wins this season, but I'm not holding my breath. My guess is we'll probably win 46-47. We'll win our first playoff series and then get bounced.

You have every reason to feel the way you do as a Wolves fan. It's been tough. I've been supporting this team since 1989 when they drafted Pooh and I threw my bowl of Count Chocula at the TV because they passed on Timmy Hardaway.

You might prove to be correct when this all plays out. For me personally, if all I have left is negativity and pessimism for this team, I'll just find something else to be passionate about. Until then/if that ever happens, there's always hope!

1989?!? Dude I wasn't even born. I was only a fan after I saw Rubio in the Olympics and then the Wolves drafted him, only because I had delusions of grandeur that I could successfully emulate his play style.

I did also love watching KG but it's not like I was watching tons of Wolves games mostly because I didn't have access.

I mean I have tons to be passionate about in my own life outside of this, but yeah this is a really fun distraction.

[Note30]

We know who Butler is. He has made multiple runs deep into the playoffs. He chose not to continue playing next to KAT and he made the right decision as evidenced by his continued playoff success.

Waiting on KAT yet.

That’s data too.

I will agree with you that Butler is a good player. He's also a POS and I wish him nothing but the worst in life. He signed a contract and he should have honored it rather than be an **** and make a mockery of the game. There should have been some kind of rule in place where he would not have got away with what he did.

That’s some fine hypotheticals you’re dealing with but it happened and he made the right decision for himself. He ended up in the Finals and the ECF as a result.

KAT being soft was a huge part of his decision (“Wiggins has the highest ceiling on this team”, said Butler—and then Wiggins went and got a ring).

I mean did he? He could have chosen to play out his contract here and then just sign with Miami in the offseason still. That wouldn't have changed his course. Him being a total **** didn't have to happen.

But to be fair that would have just turned out worse for the Wolves.

[Domejandro]

Eventually, I’m going to make locked dumpster thread where every derailing conversation gets condemned to (not really, but dear Lord). We have a thread dedicated to Karl-Anthony Towns for a reason, keep this thread open for trade discussion. Thanks!

[thinktank]

What? I’m sorry, did you not say, “KAT didn’t help Butler win that series?”

Wait, that’s exactly what you said!

You know who was worse than KAT in the playoff series you focused on? Butler. And every single Wolves player. So yeah, Butler didn’t help KAT. And Aaron Brooks didn’t help Marcus George Hunt win one either. Winning a playoff series is a team effort, and Jimmy deserves more blame than KAT.

Weird how you bring up that specific series, when Jimmy wasn’t good, and base your prediction of KAT and Ant on that. Worse, you then suddenly go running off to .. “but in other series, that had entirely different players ..!” Seems like when the facts don’t match your narrative, you run off to some new area, instead of trying to defend your position. That’s not “good faith,” my friend! You see that you’re wrong about the series you brought up, right?

By your logic, last year Jokic didn’t help Aaron Gordon win a championship.

You can have your point about Butler being injured in the Houston series and guess what? KAT still didn’t step up. Your point changes very little:

KAT has not played good enough to win a playoff series as an alpha or beta on our team. And he talks like winning is a foregone conclusion. And he’s gonna make 50 million a year.

We thought KAT would at least progress with Embiid and Jokic too.

It hasn’t happened. He’s the same guy he’s always been. A one-way, complaining, zero self-awareness, player who, funny, also hasn’t played well in the playoffs.

Gee. I wonder why?

What? I’m jus repeating your own words here.

You said “KAT didn’t help Butler win a playoff series” Butler was worse than KAT, and since he was injured, wasn’t “helping Butler win a playoff series” really just another unfair expectation?

Then, when you get caught, you try to divert your argument to a list of other complaints?

This is enough for me.

“ You can have your point about Butler being injured in the Houston series”

How many times do you want me to say it? I can say it a third time if you want.

[thinktank]

Eventually, I’m going to make locked dumpster thread where every derailing conversation gets condemned to (not really, but dear Lord). We have a thread dedicated to Karl-Anthony Towns for a reason, keep this thread open for trade discussion. Thanks!

Well it started as a discussion about KAT to Brooklyn cant happen therefore we should keep him, but now it’s about how KAT has actually been good in one playoff series against Houston? (I guess. Sure.)

[shrink]

Brian Windhorst made an interesting point this morning about adding a third max player, possibly why we saw PHX do it, and LAC working to do it.

Fans are understandably focused on the penalties for exceeding the second apron, but don’t pay much attention to the functionality. If your team is over, rules like “no MLE” or “no salary aggregation” or “100% salary matching rules” all make it extremely difficult for an expensive team to get more expensive. However, those rules don’t kick in until next summer. It looks like some of these team are willing to pay the penalties, but they need to add that third max deal NOW - they can’t wait.

For us, it means that Towns’ trade market for high-priced teams will be from now until the trade deadline. (As I’ve mentioned, the new CBA’s reduction in penalties for crossing the lux makes him more in demand for most of the NBA). And it might even mean Lore and ARod will join PHX and LAC and pay the tax, if it looks like the team can contend.

[TimberKat]

Brian Windhorst made an interesting point this morning about adding a third max player, possibly why we saw PHX do it, and LAC working to do it.

Fans are understandably focused on the penalties for exceeding the second apron, but don’t pay much attention to the functionality. If your team is over, rules like “no MLE” or “no salary aggregation” or “100% salary matching rules” all make it extremely difficult for an expensive team to get more expensive. However, those rules don’t kick in until next summer. It looks like some of these team ps are willing to pay the penalties, but they need to add that third max deal NOW - they can’t wait.

For us, it means that Towns’ trade market for high-priced teams will be from now until the trade deadline. (As I’ve mentioned, the new CBA’s reduction in penalties for crossing the lux makes him more in demand for most of the NBA). And it might even mean Lore and ARod will join PHX and LAC and pay the tax, if it looks like the team can contend.

That is where I am focus at (bold). I say most of us (even real GMs - pun intended) don't fully understand the new CBA yet. The cap stuff is just another excuse for Towns haters to find reasons to trade him. We could just think of Towns as our 3rd max. I am also betting on Lore/ARod operates like Suns - willing to go above 5th apron to give the team the best shoot at winning. So, trade Towns for a real star at max if you like but not role players and picks

[Norseman79]

Brian Windhorst made an interesting point this morning about adding a third max player, possibly why we saw PHX do it, and LAC working to do it.

Fans are understandably focused on the penalties for exceeding the second apron, but don’t pay much attention to the functionality. If your team is over, rules like “no MLE” or “no salary aggregation” or “100% salary matching rules” all make it extremely difficult for an expensive team to get more expensive. However, those rules don’t kick in until next summer. It looks like some of these team ps are willing to pay the penalties, but they need to add that third max deal NOW - they can’t wait.

For us, it means that Towns’ trade market for high-priced teams will be from now until the trade deadline. (As I’ve mentioned, the new CBA’s reduction in penalties for crossing the lux makes him more in demand for most of the NBA). And it might even mean Lore and ARod will join PHX and LAC and pay the tax, if it looks like the team can contend.

That is where I am focus at (bold). I say most of us (even real GMs - pun intended) don't fully understand the new CBA yet. The cap stuff is just another excuse for Towns haters to find reasons to trade him. We could just think of Towns as our 3rd max. I am also betting on Lore/ARod operates like Suns - willing to go above 5th apron to give the team the best shoot at winning. So, trade Towns for a real star at max if you like but not role players and picks

Why not for a young prospect that could be a max at their next contract?

[TimberKat]

Why not for a young prospect that could be a max at their next contract?

It's risk and return. Wiggins wasn't as good as KLove. Jefferson never come closed to KG. Scoot is not a sure hit. There is far better chance whatever picks you get back will not be worthy max. We are debating Towns' max at the moment.

[Norseman79]

Why not for a young prospect that could be a max at their next contract?

It's risk and return. Wiggins wasn't as good as KLove. Jefferson never come closed to KG. Scoot is not a sure hit. There is far better chance whatever picks you get back will not be worthy max. We are debating Towns' max at the moment.

When I say young prospect, I mean somebody that's been in the league for 2 years and has a track record and trajectory toward a max player. I think the point you are making though is that we have to take a max level player back in the scenario that's being talked about. I just don't see any max level players that I would want coming here for Kat.

[TimberKat]

Why not for a young prospect that could be a max at their next contract?

It's risk and return. Wiggins wasn't as good as KLove. Jefferson never come closed to KG. Scoot is not a sure hit. There is far better chance whatever picks you get back will not be worthy max. We are debating Towns' max at the moment.

When I say young prospect, I mean somebody that's been in the league for 2 years and has a track record and trajectory toward a max player. I think the point you are making though is that we have to take a max level player back in the scenario that's being talked about. I just don't see any max level players that I would want coming here for Kat.

Yes, I go for that which is why I am good with Towns for Ball but too bad CHA didn't draft Scoot.

[Norseman79]

Just killing time until the fireworks start..

Houston in: VanVleet, Gobert, Randle
Out: Smith, Porter, Sengun, picks

Vanvleet
Green
Thompson
Randle
Gobert

Raptors in: Barret, Porter, Sengun, Fournier, Picks
Out: OG, Vanvleet (S&T), Siakim

Barret
Trent
Porter
Barnes
Sengun

Knicks in: Towns, Siakim, OG
Knicks out: Robinson, Randle, Quickley, Fournier, Barret, Grimes, picks

Brunson
Hart
OG
Siakim
Towns

Wolves in: Smith, Quickley, Robinson, Grimes, picks
Out: Gobert, Towns

Quickley, Conley
Edwards, Grimes
McDaniels, Minott
Smith, Anderson
Reid , Robinson

[KGdaBom]

Just killing time until the fireworks start..

Houston in: VanVleet, Gobert, Randle
Out: Smith, Porter, Sengun, picks

Vanvleet
Green
Thompson
Randle
Gobert

Raptors in: Barret, Porter, Sengun, Fournier, Picks
Out: OG, Vanvleet (S&T), Siakim

Barret
Trent
Porter
Barnes
Sengun

Knicks in: Towns, Siakim, OG
Knicks out: Robinson, Randle, Quickley, Fournier, Barret, Grimes, picks

Brunson
Hart
OG
Siakim
Towns

Wolves in: Smith, Quickley, Robinson, Grimes, picks
Out: Gobert, Towns

Quickley, Conley
Edwards, Grimes
McDaniels, Minott
Smith, Anderson
Reid , Robinson

Horrible for the Wolves and more horrible for the Raptors. There are not enough picks out there to make this worth it for either of those teams.

[ZelkosGhost]

Clippers in the Beard
out Bones, N. Powell, Morris Sr.
Wolves IN Bones, N. Powell, Morris Sr. ?picks?
out KAT
6ers in KAT
out the Beard, ?picks?

who say no

[Baseline81]

Clippers in the Beard
out Bones, N. Powell, Morris Sr.
Wolves IN Bones, N. Powell, Morris Sr. ?picks?
out KAT
6ers in KAT
out the Beard, ?picks?

who say no

[Norseman79]

Clippers in the Beard
out Bones, N. Powell, Morris Sr.
Wolves IN Bones, N. Powell, Morris Sr. ?picks?
out KAT
6ers in KAT
out the Beard, ?picks?

who say no

Could you explain where the value is for the wolves? Powell maybe? I guess I just don't see anyone who moves the needle in that grouping - as far as either a young guy with really high potential or likely high draft picks. If you do than that might work.

[shrink]

Clippers in the Beard
out Bones, N. Powell, Morris Sr.
Wolves IN Bones, N. Powell, Morris Sr. ?picks?
out KAT
6ers in KAT
out the Beard, ?picks?

who say no

You don’t have enough picks.

MIN is still win-now. Wolves aren’t going to trade their All NBA player for Clippers bench flotsam.

C’mon man.

[jscott]

Clippers in the Beard
out Bones, N. Powell, Morris Sr.
Wolves IN Bones, N. Powell, Morris Sr. ?picks?
out KAT
6ers in KAT
out the Beard, ?picks?

who say no

Wolves, dude.

This is trash.

[KGdaBom]

Clippers in the Beard
out Bones, N. Powell, Morris Sr.
Wolves IN Bones, N. Powell, Morris Sr. ?picks?
out KAT
6ers in KAT
out the Beard, ?picks?

who say no

Wolves say no so fast it will make your head spin.

[urinesane]

Clippers in the Beard
out Bones, N. Powell, Morris Sr.
Wolves IN Bones, N. Powell, Morris Sr. ?picks?
out KAT
6ers in KAT
out the Beard, ?picks?

who say no

Who's alt account is this?